Yakagi Suimei vs Rider (Quetzalcoatl) (one vote remaining)

[PhantomØ4]

Haven't read Volume 9 of the light novel so forgive me if this is obvious information but the crux of the situation pointed out by God900 is that he can't pin her down Physically and to do that in the first place youd need to be within CQC range. So can Sumei Multi-Cast Grand-Scale Magicka whilst engaging in CQC???? And can he do it against someone who is presumably more skilled in that aspect of Combat??? And Physically superior as well??

Dunno what God900 said about pinning her down but Magicians can convert their mana field into physical pressure that holds the opponent in place so it’s not really necessary to be as cqc as you make it out to be.

Not sure how you think that him being in combat is gonna make it harder for him to Multi-Cast and it’s not like they start in CQC.

Thirdly, the skill. When you mentioned his skill it was without him using any magicka while his opponents had developed supernatural techniques without the use of itWith magicka he has defensive options open to him that really help him like instant movement spells, automatic healing that allowed him to keep up with Eanru even when he was even weaker, rotational shields, the ability to turn into a gaseous or liquid state to dodge, duplicate himself, or even to do what he did with Tiatania and turn into a liquid and harden himself with magicka to immobilize her, precog, instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, and stuff of the sort. So it’s not like he does not compensate with his main attribute which is magicka skills.

As for the other thing, I was basing myself off what Espectro said but Fate discussion got entangled.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Not sure how you think that him being in combat is gonna make it harder for him to Multi-Cast and it’s not like they start in CQC.

So you're saying Sumei can Multi-Cast Grand Scale Magicka whilst trading blows with Quetz???cause that's what I'm asking about like once they get into a Range where the can Physically trade fists would he be able to do that??

 

[PhantomØ4]

Yeah? Dude can literally cast spells by walking or by engraving a spell so it casts another spell. It’s liturgy. True Chants are another type of spell that take longer like the one he was gonna use against Eanru but we don’t know much about them. It’s not like with knowledge he wouldn’t cast the Grand Scale Magicka before they could engage in cqc.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Yeah? Dude can literally cast spells by walking or by engraving a spell so it casts another spell. It’s liturgy. True Chants are another type of spell that take longer like the one he was gonna use against Eanru but we don’t know much about them. It’s not like with knowledge he wouldn’t cast the Grand Scale Magicka before they could engage in cqc.

No no I'm asking if in the event Quetz got into the range where she could punch him in the face and forced him to engage in a fist fight or Sword vs fist if he used alchemy to make a sword or something, in the midst of these exchanges would he be able to cast spells like Enth Astrarle(Sorry if I ****** up the spelling) or Abraq ad Harabra(again sorry I ****** up the spelling)I'm not talking about his smaller scale Magicka I'm talking about his "Oh shit this guy bout to get one shot" spells if I can put it like that

 

[PhantomØ4]

Probs not Enth Astrale but Abraq Ad Habra has a pretty short cast time comparatively so yeah and once set up it can be used instantly. Same goes for his Azure Mercurial Sword.

But even his Grand Scale Magicka Like Enth Astrale can be implemented into liturgy in all likelihood. His Golden Fortress is his most complex spell but he uses liturgy in an automatic away so that it casts itself basically as the initial magicka gives birth to more magicka which does the same and so on until it’s fully deployed.

Either way I dunno why he wouldn’t already have it set up if he has the knowledge of how strong Quetzalquatl is.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I mean, yes I know that, I read that. But Suimei would never be able to put her down physically, he struggles with people like Eanru, he would have a hard time fighting people like Rajas who is High 7-A, and Quetz is more or less in the same levels of strenght as Eanru.

he still has his 6-C magic. (that physical force of that magic could work plus that lifting strength)

 

[FallenMaou2234]

he still has his 6-C magic. (that physical force of that magic could work plus that lifting strength)

How big an Amp are we talking here?? cause Quetz has Large Country Level Striking Strength at the lowest end and Multi-Continental at the highest end(310 Teratones to 13.8 Petatons) so like God900 was saying he did have a pretty hard time against Rajas who's High 7-A so I'm Inclined to say Physically he's out matched Completely here

 

[God900]

Haven't read Volume 9 of the light novel so

You didn't even read volume 1 most likely........,this not a very popular verse either way

 

[God900]

so like God900 was saying he did have a pretty hard time against Rajas who's High 7-A so I'm Inclined to say Physically he's out matched Completely here

No, apparently, we are using EOS Suimei from the volume 9, so this one is waaay stronger than the one who fought Rajas.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Either way I dunno why he wouldn’t already have it set up if he has the knowledge of how strong Quetzalquatl is.

Alright that's fine now speaking as to how the fight would play out let's assume he set up his grand scale Magicka

Resistance to BFR, Biological Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (Her Goddess Divine Core skill preserves the "absoluteness" of her mind and body), Animal Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation (Fire, Water, Air, Electricity, etc), Power Bestowal, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Statistics Reduction, Curse Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Size Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Absorption, Clairvoyance, Precognition, Damage Reduction, Death Manipulation, BFR, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Resistance Negation, Poison Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Power Nullification, Light Manipulation, Aura, Disease Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Statistics Amplification, Necromancy, Biological Manipulation, Absolute Zero, Age Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Transmutation, Data Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Corrosion Inducement, Fusionism, Space-Time Manipulation, Sense Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Power Mimicry, Sleep Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Shapeshifting, Sealing, Reactive Evolution, Reactive Power Level, Subjective Reality, Acid Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Physics Manipulation

These are the 6-D Resitances granted to Quetz via Authority how many of the grand scale Magicka are realistically going to work if they land???

 

[FallenMaou2234]

You didn't even read volume 1 most likely........,this not a very popular verse either way

I didn't read Volume one I actually read the Manga and then carried on from where that left off but that was before the Manga had gotten to the end of Lefi and Sumei vs Rajas was there some important info I missed??

 

[FallenMaou2234]

No, apparently, we are using EOS Suimei from the volume 9, so this one is waaay stronger than the one who fought Rajas.

I see so his profile is in need of updates I assume if so then I think we should put this one on hold??

 

[God900]

I see so his profile is in need of updates I assume if so then I think we should put this one on hold??

Don't think so.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Don't think so.

Well on his profile he still has Large Mountain Level+ Striking Strength so if he's waaay stronger than Rajas EOS to the point that he should be able to go toe to toe with Quetz then I'd assume they're in need of some updating at least no??

 

[PhantomØ4]

Alright that's fine now speaking as to how the fight would play out let's assume he set up his grand scale Magicka

Resistance to BFR, Biological Manipulation and Mind Manipulation (Her Goddess Divine Core skill preserves the "absoluteness" of her mind and body), Animal Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation (Fire, Water, Air, Electricity, etc), Power Bestowal, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Statistics Reduction, Curse Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Size Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Absorption, Clairvoyance, Precognition, Damage Reduction, Death Manipulation, BFR, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Resistance Negation, Poison Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Power Nullification, Light Manipulation, Aura, Disease Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Statistics Amplification, Necromancy, Biological Manipulation, Absolute Zero, Age Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Transmutation, Data Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Corrosion Inducement, Fusionism, Space-Time Manipulation, Sense Manipulation, Perception Manipulation, Power Mimicry, Sleep Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Shapeshifting, Sealing, Reactive Evolution, Reactive Power Level, Subjective Reality, Acid Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Physics Manipulation

These are the 6-D Resitances granted to Quetz via Authority how many of the grand scale Magicka are realistically going to work if they land???

Yes thanks for focusing on hax. I have told you several times now what would work. All he needs is to hold her back long enough to pin her to the ground with physical pressure.

Grand Scale Magicka would only serve to meet her blows, block them, keep her at bay by flinging her ect… on top of the survivability options I mentioned before.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Well on his profile he still has Large Mountain Level+ Striking Strength so if he's waaay stronger than Rajas EOS to the point that he should be able to go toe to toe with Quetz then I'd assume they're in need of some updating at least no??

How to forget a thread 101. That’s why he needs his grand scale Magicka. His azure Katana and Golden shield, ect… on top of automatic healing that already allowed him to keep up with someone who was comparable to Quetzalquatl physically when he was half as strong as he is in this match.

 

[God900]

Yeah, Eos Suimei with the automatic healing spell can pretty much keep up a equalized H2H fight with Quetz.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

How to forget a thread 101. That’s why he needs his grand scale Magicka. His azure Katana and Golden shield, ect… on top of automatic healing that already allowed him to keep up with someone who was comparable to Quetzalquatl physically when he was half as strong as he is in this match.

Lol I see so correct me if I'm wrong but you're saying theres no updates needed for the pages?? And when you say comparable you mean Enaru right?? But on his profile he has Island class striking strength and Class K lifting strength now Granted sumei was half as strong but I don't see how the two are comparable here in terms of Physicals considering Quetz is Large Country Class at the low end and Multi-Continental at the high end with Class T being a conservative estimate for Gugalanna's Weight although that's just me nitpicking a little bit

That said the battle conditions have them at 1Km as the starting distance assuming their speed is equalized at Quetz's lower Massively Hypersonic(which happens to be a serious Lowball and needs to be fixed smh) which is Mach 959.45 it would Literally take a fraction of a second to close the distance now you said that Sumei would prepare Grand Magicka in order to hold her at bay before they got into a CQC situation but whats to stop Quetz rushing straight in and forcing a situation like that cause I'm aware that he has fast chanting times for his Grand Scale Magicka but is it fraction of a second fast??? Cause lower level Magicka would just bounce straight off her cause of her Magic Resistance and Authority so what's to stop her from closing the distance and then using her presumably better CQC and physical strength to pin him down??

Also I did ask about this earlier but hows Sumei's Heat Resitance cause Quetz did kinda evaporate an entire sea of Tiamats mud and turn the remaining stone to molten rock with Piedra del sol it's also capable of evaporating all of Uruk so I know Sumei has his automatic healing skill but it's not instantaneous I do remember him needing to re-attach his arm after Enaru cut it off before he healed it so even if it doesn't kill him it would slow him down after all they do have prior knowledge about each other

 

[PhantomØ4]

Because it isn’t via striking strength. It’s via magicka. You can see it in his profile that with grand scale magicka.

Anything higher than 6-C is via NP which she ain’t gonna use here because that’s be killing and that isn’t a win con.

I can do a rough estimate for the Bull of Heaven based on mountain. I couldn’t find information on the density of a bull but I’ll just assume they aren’t too far off from human’s 1000 kg/m^3. That’d make a bull about 1 m^3 standing at 1.8 meters tall, the bull of heaven using the height of a Mountain is 338.333 times taller and with square cube law then it’s 38,728,828,703,703.7 cc. 19.3 g/cc density of gold. 7.47466e11 kg. Pretty far off from Suimei but this is an estimate ofc if y’all want an actual argument actually get it calced.

A fraction of a second when Suimei would also be casting at MHS speeds is not much different from a human crossing a kilometers while the other casts. So I don’t see your point here.

NPs aren’t used according to OP and aren’t win conditions according to OP anyways.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

A fraction of a second when Suimei would also be casting at MHS speeds is not much different from a human crossing a kilometers while the other casts. So I don’t see your point here

I don't think Sumei "Casting at MHS speeds" is a thing just because his Movment speed is MHS doesn't mean his casting time for Grand scale Magicka that require chants also now can be made at MHS speeds he takes a little time to recite the chants for his bigger scale Magicka hed be able to react and move out the way but I don't think a fraction of a second is enough to complete those chants

I can do a rough estimate for the bulk of Heaven based on mountain. I couldn’t find information on the density of a bull but I’ll just assume they aren’t too far off from human’s 1000 g/c. That’d make a bull about 1 m^2 standing at 1.8 meters tall, the bull of heaven using the height of a Mountain is 338.333 times taller and with square cube law then it’s 38,728,828,703,703.7 cc. 19.3 g/cc density of gold. 7.47466e11 kg. Pretty far off from Suimei but this is an estimate ofc if y’all want an actual argument actually get it calced.

Also good job estimating that but I think a Divine beast hailed as the Mightiest in all of Sumer is gonna be a little denser than your avarage human or Bull for that matter also I do think this Estimate may be a little wrong considering how this would be class G lifting strength when Quetz on her profile is listed as being Class T because Gugalanna is "At least" as big as a mountain

Anything higher than 6-C is via NP which she ain’t gonna use here because that’s be killing and that isn’t a win con.

I don't see anything in the OP restricting the usage of NP's and I thought Sumei possesses the ability to Regenerate from being reduced to gaseous state?? so she could Use Piedra del sol to overwhelm his Healing ability for a little bit and use the opening to pin him down and get the W

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I don't think Sumei "Casting at MHS" speeds is a thing just because his Movment speed is MHS doesn't mean his casting time for Grand scale Magicka that require chants also now can be made at MHS speeds he takes a little time to recite the chants for his bigger scale Magicka hed be able to react and move out the way but I don't think a fraction of a second is enough to complete those chants

Also good job estimating that but I think a Divine beast hailed as the Mightiest in all of Sumer is gonna be a little denser than your avarage human or Bull for that matter

I don't see anything in the OP restricting the usage of NP's and I thought Sumei possesses the ability to Regenerate from being reduced to gaseous state?? so she could Use Piedra del sol to overwhelm his Healing ability for a little bit and use the opening to pin him down and get the W

i just assumed that since she's in-character she wouldn't use those higher tiers.


Wait if both have knowledge of each other.

would they know their own tiers and other people's tiers?

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Wait if both have knowledge of each other.

would they know their own tiers and other people's tiers?

I don't know man you're the one who made the thread that's on you

i just assumed that since she's in-character she wouldn't use those higher tiers.

Quetz loves a good fight if she had prior knowledge on Sumei's Abilities she'd know that he can't really touch her with his Hax and his spells would only serve to slow her down so Quetz being a Goddess of war like people like the Aztecs with hundreds of years of experience fighting other Aztec gods like Tezcatlipoca numerous times and all I wouldn't put it past her to use her NP to immobilize him knowing that he can heal from it and then using the opening to score the three count

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I don't know man you're the one who made the thread that's on you

Quetz loves a good fight if she had prior knowledge on Sumei's Abilities she'd know that he can't really touch her with his Hax and his spells would only serve to slow her down so Quetz being a Goddess of war like people like the Aztecs with hundreds of years of experience fighting other Aztec gods like Tezcatlipoca numerous times and all I wouldn't put it past her to use her NP to immobilize him knowing that he can heal from it and then using the opening to score the three count

well since i put knowledge.

i guess i'll fix the op to make it a bit more specific. (both know each other's tiers)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

done i added next to the knowledge part that they both know each other's tiers.

 

[PhantomØ4]

You know, if his casting time wasn’t affected by his combat speed then with FTL combat speed characters could attack him millions of times in Isekai Mahou before he could cast it when he could fast enough to block Rajas and Eanru mid attack. His combat speed is MHS not just reactions.

You didn’t get the Calc. I got the volume of a regular bull using its weight and density then used squares cubed law for the volume of the bull of heaven and then multiplied by the density of gold (a very dense metal) to get the weight. The estimation on the profile is an estimation without Calc so It’d be baseline but y’all keep bringing up that it could be higher so I’m showing it could be lower.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

well since i put knowledge.

i guess i'll fix the op to make it a bit more specific. (both know each other's tiers)

Wait so like they just know each others Tiers and not their abilities and powers cause if so coupled together with the "Incapacition only" wincon the fight itself favours Sumei now although that may just be how I see it

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Wait so like they just know each others Tiers and not their abilities and powers cause if so coupled together with the "Incapacition only" wincon the fight itself favours Sumei now although that may just be how I see it

okay i'll put powers and abilities too.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

okay i'll put powers and abilities too.

done added they know each other's powers and abilities as well.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

You know, if his casting time wasn’t affected by his combat speed then with FTL combat speed characters could attack him millions of times in Isekai Mahou before he could cast it when he could fast enough to block Rajas and Eanru mid attack. His combat speed is MHS not just reactions.

Again I'm talking about his biggest spells here we know when it comes to deploying His Ramparts and other smaller Magicka his Casting time is able to keep up mid-combat but Majority of the time when he's using a big attack that utilizes a long winded chant (Purley for hype purposes of course)he isn't under any significant assault Rajas was busy when he used Abraq ad habra, Flemenia was sat down in Awe when he used Enth Astrarle and when he used True Blue Decapitation they were in the air under no significant Assault so theres nothing to suggest that his Chants become FTL because his Movment speed is when it comes to his Grand Scale Magicka

 

[God900]

You know, if his casting time wasn’t affected by his combat speed then with FTL combat speed characters could attack him millions of times in Isekai Mahou before he could cast it when he could fast enough to block Rajas and Eanru mid attack. His combat

He is FTL lol.

 

[God900]

Again I'm talking about his biggest spells here we know when it comes to deploying His Ramparts and other smaller Magicka his Casting time is able to keep up mid-combat but Majority of the time when he's using a big attack that utilizes a long winded chant (Purley for hype purposes of course)he isn't under any significant assault Rajas was busy when he used Abraq ad habra, Flemenia was sat down in Awe when he used Enth Astrarle and when he used True Blue Decapitation they were in the air under no significant Assault so theres nothing to suggest that his Chants become FTL because his Movment speed is when it comes to his Grand Scale Magicka

Yep, seems like you didn't read the novel at all. You are forgetting when he could defend in time against Felmenia's white Flames, and from Rajas attacks lol.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Yep, seems like you didn't read the novel at all

If you could please point out to me where he is being attacked and not calmly reciting the chants for seconds in each of these scenes that would be nice seeing as how you read the novel and all

 

[FallenMaou2234]

You are forgetting when he could defend in time against Felmenia's white Flames, and from Rajas attacks lol.

Ah yes but you see if you read the message I did mention the fact that his smaller scale Magicka like his Explosion magic where he only needs to snap his fingers to activate it or his Rampart deployment which he used to defend against Flemenias Flames are the ones that can easily be deployed mid combat rather than his Grand Scale Magicka like Enth Astrarle which Likley take a couple seconds to recite regardless of Movment and Combat speed

 

[PhantomØ4]

You are saying seconds for characters who have combat speed that is FTL lol. You can emoji spam all you want but if it took seconds even for a high Hypersonic characters it’d be the equivalent of many minutes. Are you forgetting when he summon his Golden fortress against Rajas and Eanru? Are you also gonna imply that if speed was unequal Suimei would take longer chanting that Quetzal running a kilometer? The scans for Abreq ad Abra doesn’t even have a chant… unless you’re talking about Suimei’s speech which on the Novel were his thoughts.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Are you also gonna imply that if speed was unequal Suimei would take longer chanting that Quetzal running a kilometer?

It would take longer but he'd be able to react Faster than Quetz could move, get out the way and then start with the tactics you pointed out earlier and probably win the fight as a result he is FTL after all and Quetz(in this key at least) is MHS

You are saying seconds for characters who have combat speed that is FTL lol.

I don't see any evidence of his Combat speed being equal to his casting time cause in every single one of the Scans the chant time isn't less in 0.003 seconds there's clearly an interval between when he starts the chant and when he activates the Magicka and he isn't under any significant assault as well meaning that for the most part the "He'd get Blitzed if his Casting time for Grand magicka wasn't FTL" argument kinda doesn't hold up

You can emoji spam all you want

Didn't think two or three emoji's at the end of the message was spamming guess it's little more strict around here ruff

but if it took seconds even for a high Hypersonic characters it’d be the equivalent of many minutes.

And this means?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Idk what to tell you if you think that an FTL character casts slower than someone over 1,000 times slower than them.

No significant assault? Did a blood-lusted Rajas also wait to make his attack at below human level speeds when he could have attacked hundreds of millions of times over before Suimei chanted? You’re just deriving that he can’t chant at FTL speeds because he is speaking and thus that’s the timeframe. Suimei’s chanting Speed impressed Eanru beyond his capability for continuous chanting and if he could chant mid-battle fast enough for it to even matter against an FTL combatant that was all about getting cqc and they were just few meters apart then clearly he would have gotten blitzed if he casted at the speed you can speak.

Uncalled for I apologize.

I mean that for characters with high hypersonic perception something like it seconds would be perceived as how we perceive about 148 minutes.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[God900]

Yakagi physically overthrows her on the floor, most likely.

 

[Regidian]

Yes thanks for focusing on hax. I have told you several times now what would work. All he needs is to hold her back long enough to pin her to the ground with physical pressure.

Grand Scale Magicka would only serve to meet her blows, block them, keep her at bay by flinging her ect… on top of the survivability options I mentioned before.

None of the grand scale magicka would do anything you tell, just for you to know, like magic resistance they would just get negated not even affecting her.

And i still don't understand how he will pin her down when they have the same class in LS

 

[Regidian]

How to forget a thread 101. That’s why he needs his grand scale Magicka. His azure Katana and Golden shield, ect… on top of automatic healing that already allowed him to keep up with someone who was comparable to Quetzalquatl physically when he was half as strong as he is in this match.

Where does he affront someone who can play with multiple 6-C/6-C+??