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Yakagi Suimei vs Rider (Quetzalcoatl) (one vote remaining)

His only win condition would be the only one he’d go for because he’d know he only has that win condition given that he knows the skill set of Quetzalquatl. I’ve already given my reasoning; I don’t think he is more skilled or equally skilled but I think he skilled enough on his secondary combat style to in combination of his evasive skill and recovery skills that’d allow him to elongate the battle enough to achieve his only victory condition more times than not. Every time I brought something up it kept taken like if the skill stood by its lonesome but it’s the fact that it’s analytical prediction + instinctive reaction + danger sense + teleportation magicka + self-duplication and so on and if she lands a hit he will just automatically recover with recovery magicka. He is capable of affecting his physical, astral (mind + soul) + ethereal body (information/self-concept) so even if regular punches from servants actually damaged all these with every attack like the physical body (which I suspect suffers of the same thing as charisma with no actual direct showings of such but that’s just a suspicion) he’d still be able to keep going
 
PhantomØ4 said:
. He is capable of affecting his physical, astral (mind + soul) + ethereal body (information/self-concept) so even if regular punches from servants actually damaged all these with every attack like the physical body (which I suspect suffers of the same thing as charisma with no actual direct showings of such but that’s just a suspicion) he’d still be able to keep going
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Since he's able to heal from spiritual damage what's to stop Quetzs from Using Xiuhcoatl to seal his abilities and then use the Pildrive Motion to score the three count cause I'm pretty sure his healing isn't instant when he takes big damage like getting his arm cut off he needed to reattach them before his healing Auto-Healing starts up so if he takes a good licking that opening should give Quetz the time to get the three count no???
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
Since he's able to heal from spiritual damage what's to stop Quetzs from Using Xiuhcoatl to seal his abilities and then use the Pildrive Motion to score the three count cause I'm pretty sure his healing isn't instant when he takes big damage like getting his arm cut off he needed to reattach them before his healing Auto-Healing starts up so if he takes a good licking that opening should give Quetz the time to get the three count no???
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Seals true name releases which would more so equal true chants from Grand Scale Magicka we talked about this? standard magicka shouldn’t be affected and thus he should be able to evade it with something like teleportation magicka. Besides a NP release would require the fight to be prolonged more so than for him to pin her down. Re-stating that he only has one victory condition isn’t necessarily a bad thing and in this case it might even be better considering he’d actively go for that single end goal.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
we talked about this?
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That was before it came to light that he can regen on a spiritual level because I assumed Xiuhcoatl would kill him and that's against the Rules in the OP
PhantomØ4 said:
Standard magicka shouldn’t be affected and thus he should be able to evade it
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I don't know about that can he really use his Teleportation magicka to escape Piedra Del Sol it did evaporate an entire Sea of Tiamats mud in a couple seconds I was under the Assumption it can only be used to Teleport short distances also on that note (again) how is his heat resistance cause the I believe the Sheer level of heat given off from Piedra del sol would damage him enough to immobalize him at least and could he Tank Xiuhcoatl without the Golden Fortress???
 
He can’t regen his soul completely, he can regen damage to the soul.

And yeah the evaporation of Tiamat’s sea was through conduction (direct contact of the liquid with itself through the point hyper energetic passing) not through sheer AoE of the beam.

The heat irradiated itself and not the energy? He can take white hot plasma and nuclear heat with magicka defenses besides the fact that he could just control the heat to maintain it away from him. But if he really struggled he could always turn himself into gas to deal with heat damage so I don’t think it’s Incap him EVEN then.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
And yeah the evaporation of Tiamat’s sea was through conduction (direct contact of the liquid with itself through the point hyper energetic passing) not through sheer AoE of the beam.
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What did you Base this on?? Beecause Tiamats mud isn't a normal liquid "Mud" itself isn't strictly a liquid in the first place I say Sea because her Mud Enveloped the entirety of the Red Sea (I think) forgot the exact name plus the rock remaining underneath turned Molten after the Mud was evaporated
PhantomØ4 said:
But if he really struggled he could always turn himself into gas to deal with heat damage so I don’t think it’s Incap him EVEN then.
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Wouldn't turning into a gas make him easier to evaporate? Cause the bonds in Gases are weaker but then again that would be killing him anyways so that's besides the point
PhantomØ4 said:
He can take white hot plasma and nuclear heat with magicka defenses besides the fact that he could just control the heat to maintain it away from him
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Plasma?? you mean Felmenia's Plasma rain stuff totally forgot about that thought that was just an expression but that shouldnt be a problem cause Piedra Del Sol is intense Solar winds and By Nuclear heat you mean the heat released at the centre of a Nuclear Bomb when it explodes?? If so if you could kinda maybe drop a scan for that just for Reference
 


Actually; here. The hyper heating the atmosphere into a ball of hot plasma with incandescence of a small scale solar flare. Solar Flares are generally hotter than Solar Winds.

As for the other stuff; nothing you really said changes that it is conduction.

It still arguing off disagreement anyways…
 
PhantomØ4 said:
and so on and if she lands a hit he will just automatically recover with recovery magicka. He is capable of affecting his physical, astral (mind + soul) + ethereal body (information/self-concept)
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How would he recover when he doesnt have High-Godly Regen when those are damage?

Win by Incapacitation is really limiting factor when her attack will him, when her AP is already above her, he's only 6-C via magic so his physically High 7-A only.
 
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John985 said:
How would he recover when he doesnt have High-Godly Regen when those are damage?

Win by Incapacitation is really limiting factor when her attack will him, when her AP is already above her, he's only 6-C via magic so his physically High 7-A only.
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Because he can’t recover fully, he can recover damage like if it was his physical body. He can’t recover any of them if they’re fully gone; but your wording made it seem as if it was damage rather than a one shot and tbh I’d also like to know when did servants start attacking all aspects of existence with their regular attacks.

His recovery magicka allowed him to take hits of 29 Gigatons of power and keep going when he was half as strong. Her being 6-C is something he can deal with Thanks to his automatic recovery magicka.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Because he can’t recover fully, he can recover damage like if it was his physical body. He can’t recover any of them if they’re fully gone; but your wording made it seem as if it was damage rather than a one shot and tbh I’d also like to know when did servants start attacking all aspects of existence with their regular attacks.
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To fight or kill servants you need to hit the spirit origin.
Q: Can the spiritual core of a Servant be thought of as a vital area that, if destroyed, would cause instantaneous death, like a human’s heart or brain?

A: The heart and brain are certainly vital organs. Though they are different from the spiritual core, they can be considered organs directly connected to the core.
When the spiritual core is weakened through mana consumption or damage to the physical body, powerful mana, spells, and Noble Phantasms can no longer be materialized, and the Servant will disappear.
Click to expand...
 
PhantomØ4 said:
The hyper heating the atmosphere into a ball of hot plasma with incandescence of a small scale solar flare. Solar Flares are generally hotter than Solar Winds.
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The statment regarding the solar flares is literally a figure of speech though

Edit:The Nuclear explosion thing as well seems to be a statment intended to denote the difference in magnitude between the two explosions rather than it Literally meaning it's a Nuke
PhantomØ4 said:
As for the other stuff; nothing you really said changes that it is conduction.
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And this is based on what??Why is it conduction and not the sheer Heat of the attack what's that standpoint based on cause once again the Chaos Tide isn't your everyday liquid it's literally the manifestation of Tiamats Authority
 
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Thanks for editing out the laughing and crying emojies, lol. I’ll try to keep answering as much as I can but i have holiday stuff now so I might be slower.

It was my misremembering, I thought it compared the incandesce to a nuclear blast but it was a solar flare. The whole first half before the nuclear comparison to dynamite which is actually a metaphor was all meant to actually just describe the event from the ionization of the air to the blast of plasma to then just comparing the heat to a solar flare’s. Maybe without all the other context of plasma and ionization I’d reckon agree with you but nah.

Because all things have the conduction effect, if it broke this rule then the heat wouldn’t be able to transfer its energy to it to vaporize it.
 
John985 said:
To fight or kill servants you need to hit the spirit origin.
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? That scan quite literally says that the spirit origin is affected by the physical state of the servant’s physical “body”. And as far as I know things like the “brain” and “heart” are specially connected to the spirit origin and that’s why they result as deadly injuries despite them not having biological bodies.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
? That scan quite literally says that the spirit origin is affected by the physical state of the servant’s physical “body”. And as far as I know things like the “brain” and “heart” are specially connected to the spirit origin and that’s why they result as deadly injuries despite them not having biological bodies.
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Its connected, but they can attack it directly just like the scan on servant physiology when Medusa was fighting Parvati. And in HF route where Shirou stab Saber Alter on her core.
 
Yeah, that scan clearly shows that it isn’t with their regular attacks. They have to use a “sufficiently powerful spiritual attack” and the scan doesn’t mention the spiritual core but the vessel; however the fact that it’s not their regular attacks it’s eh. & When Shirou stabs Saber Alter in HF it’s in the heart no? Seeing how closely connected the heart is to the spiritual core and that fatal damage to it results in the spiritual core being fatally damaged I wouldn’t say he straight up bypassed but simply followed the regular cause and effect of destroying the heart ******* up spiritual core.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Because all things have the conduction effect, if it broke this rule then the heat wouldn’t be able to transfer its energy to it to vaporize it.
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Would've agreed with you if the attack used to Vaporize the 4D Mud with Immeasurable mass that's made out of Imaginary Numbers wasn't literally an armament that uses Human imagination as it's core and is described as being a Crystallised Mystery in general
PhantomØ4 said:
It was my misremembering, I thought it compared the incandesce to a nuclear blast but it was a solar flare. The whole first half before the nuclear comparison to dynamite which is actually a metaphor was all meant to actually just describe the event from the ionization of the air to the blast of plasma to then just comparing the heat to a solar flare’s. Maybe without all the other context of plasma and ionization I’d reckon agree with you but nah.
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This is a bit Confusing but I assume what you're trying to point out is that the context indicates that the statment comparing it to a small scale solar flare wasn't just a figure of speech yes?? But the thing is with that is the phrase "it Could be mistaken" for a small scale solar flare implying explicitly that it is NOT one but could be MISTAKEN for one
 
All that and it followed the rules of conduction of heat and was capable of being vaporized. Clearly it behaves as a physical thing to a degree. Although you could just end this by sending a scan where it actually shows the beam being the size of the Red Sea or something similar.

Well yeah it ain’t a small scale solar flare because it doesn’t come from the sun and it’s a different phenomena altogether but you cannot mistake something’s heat for something else without being in the same ballpark. Unless you think you COULD mistake the heat of a match for the heat of a solar wind?
 
Anyways, unless you actually have something beyond a disagreement on the outcome I’ll be taking break from replying to a thread that validly should have concluded. Merry Christmas.
 
Don’t think so? It’s not like Quetzalquatl doesn’t gain knowledge while Suimei does just that Suimei does more with it than Quetzalquatl since he’s the one pushed to play around the abilities rather than her who’s a great force in the battlefield.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Don’t think so? It’s not like Quetzalquatl doesn’t gain knowledge while Suimei does just that Suimei does more with it than Quetzalquatl since he’s the one pushed to play around the abilities rather than her who’s a great force in the battlefield.
Click to expand...

so it's fine basically?
 
PhantomØ4 said:
All that and it followed the rules of conduction of heat and was capable of being vaporized. Clearly it behaves as a physical thing to a degree. Although you could just end this by sending a scan where it actually shows the beam being the size of the Red Sea or something similar.
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Again dude the mud is literally made of Imaginary Numbers and Not atoms with covalent and Ionic bonds and is a 4th Dimensional Pocket space in and of itself we can't treat it like some everyday because "It behaves like a physical thing to a degree" it's a lot more complicated than that
PhantomØ4 said:
Well yeah it ain’t a small scale solar flare because it doesn’t come from the sun and it’s a different phenomena altogether but you cannot mistake something’s heat for something else without being in the same ballpark. Unless you think you COULD mistake the heat of a match for the heat of a solar wind?
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I don't know about this interpretation to be honest it could even just be an indication of luminosity because incandescence in the first place is used to describe something that emits light as a result of being heated because there's no direct reference to the attack being as hot as a solar flare

Edit:******* Imugr dammit
 
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Not made out of atoms/molecules
Gets vaporized
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Oh.

Scan doesn’t load for me; idk if it’s broken or just me.

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of INCANDESCENT

white, glowing, or luminous with intense heat; strikingly bright, radiant, or clear; marked by brilliance especially of expression… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com www.merriam-webster.com
Incandescence is a combination of heat and light and the light radiation directly correlating to the heat of an object. It’s not strictly one or the other it’s both in their direct relationship.

Still just disagreeing with the outcome which isn’t a valid thing to override grace.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
It isn’t unbalanced
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Well I wouldn't go as far as to say it's unbalanced but the No killing rule and the starting distance definitely do favour Sumei cause it means Quetz's strongest attacks and Abilities can't be used to their fullest and Sumei can get his Magicka going that said if we did put them super close then it'd favour Quetz but yeah do with that what you will I suppose
 
Yeah that same rule is what makes the match possible in the first place. Otherwise it’d be generic “_____ stomps; close thread” and wouldn’t have gotten this much engagement to be in the 260th+ reply. The way you’re thinking is to purposely favour Quetzalquatl more after having discussion to see what would be better for her; OP did it neutrally by trying to give equal chances and let it go from there.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
The way you’re thinking is to purposely favour Quetzalquatl more after having discussion to see what would be better for her; OP did it neutrally by trying to give equal chances and let it go from there.
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Calm yourself dawg I'm just pointing out that this threads op isn't unbalanced in that its clearly biased towards Sumei but the rules do favour Sumei and his skillset slightly even if this is the best it could do to make it fair because once again Quetz can't utilize any of her strongest attacks to their fullest because they would kill him but you're right in saying that it would be a stomp otherwise
PhantomØ4 said:
Oh.
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You expect Imaginary Numbers,Authorities and Magic to follow the laws of physics??? It's ****** but that's how it works that's why I said it's more complicated than that
PhantomØ4 said:
Incandescence is a combination of heat and light and the light radiation directly correlating to the heat of an object. It’s not strictly one or the other it’s both in their direct relationship.

Still just disagreeing with the outcome which isn’t a valid thing to override grace.
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So emitting light as a result of being heated no?? Just like I said?? And Grace?? When did Grace start also I dare say this thread is filled with Isekai Mahou fans given how theres that one guy who was liking every single message you posted at one point but that's besides the point I'm just disagreeing because I don't think Sumei gets the W here didn't see anything about grace
PhantomØ4 said:
Scan doesn’t load for me; idk if it’s broken or just me.
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Nah my Imgur is acting up is all

Welp anyways Merry Christmas folks hope ya'll have a good time
 
I’m not gonna reply to everything cuz like I don’t have the time. Just wanna say that it’s pretty funny that you say that the thread is filled with Isekai Mahou fans when when I have like 85% participation rate for the discussion with 4 Fate fans. God9000 is peculiar but you don’t need to call him out… would you have preferred for him to say I agree every time? The likes just represent he agreed.

Grace was reached 24 hours after the Sonic dude voted by vs thread rules of 7 votes.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
. Just wanna say that it’s pretty funny that you say that the thread is filled with Isekai Mahou fans when when I have like 85% participation rate for the discussion with 4 Fate fans.
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Yeah that's exactly it of the 8 people that voted only 2 of you I think were actually participating is what I'm trynna point out heheh it's fine tho anyways if they read and decided to FRA that's fine too
PhantomØ4 said:
God9000 is peculiar but you don’t need to call him out… would you have preferred for him to say I agree every time? The likes just represent he agreed.

Grace was reached 24 hours after the Sonic dude voted by vs thread rules of 7 votes.
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HahaHaha yeah sure I guess it does mean he agrees wasnt trynna beef or anything and I'm a bit new around here so I don't know too much about rules like that
 
I'm also busy so just gonna ask instead of count myself but what are the current votes? And what was the count vote before the 21 hours of the grace ended? Because if after the vote that began the grace the other side reached enough votes grace would have stopped.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
I'm also busy so just gonna ask instead of count myself but what are the current votes? And what was the count vote before the 21 hours of the grace ended? Because if after the vote that began the grace the other side reached enough votes grace would have stopped.
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Grace period began Wednesday my time 7-4; ended Thursday my time.

Fallen Maou voted today my time. 7-5 and shortly after someone else voted and we are currently 8-5 but the previous grace period ended before that.
 
Yeah the only reason this match is possible because it clearly favors Yakagi, for no killing part and range. I still dont think this match should be valid.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
Yeah, that scan clearly shows that it isn’t with their regular attacks. They have to use a “sufficiently powerful spiritual attack” and the scan doesn’t mention the spiritual core but the vessel; however the fact that it’s not their regular attacks it’s eh. & When Shirou stabs Saber Alter in HF it’s in the heart no?
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On Saber Alter part, Im not so sure, because Saber is actually incarnated because of Mud. She became like Gilgamesh gaining flesh.
 
John985 said:
Yeah the only reason this match is possible because it clearly favors Yakagi, for no killing part and range. I still dont think this match should be valid.
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It certainly does but I think you'll just have to make do with the fact that they had to use a weaker version of Quetz and gave him slightly favourable battle conditions but Quetz would still probably give him a run for his money (and arguably win lol) otherwise Quetz would just go Brrr and stomp for now unfortunately
 
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