Xeno Goku and Demigra vs. Hajun and Mercurius

[Tony_di_bugalu]

There is a thing called singularity that destroys the minds of any mortal that dares go in it, there they mind fight the shades of the previous gods and if they can't they die or something then there is the wave of Mercury that drives you insane and any God (comparable) can shrug that like nothing.

>The only reason DBH's cosmology isn't 2-A here is because people here like to pretend that when people talk about every possibility,

That's good and all but Shinza still has stupidly high feast that are on the last big CRT, go and read it

>DB character have mind hax resistance feats so they get overwhelmed based on what ?

On the power of the gods, they literally overwhelmed other gods like no tomorrow

>Reitsu crush was litteraly rejected on two different threads by staffs members so you're basicaly just telling me it's a passive version of an already passive ability who's interpretation was rejected.

It was an analogy in case you didn't notice but the spiritual mass of the gods is enough to shit stomp all of creation and most likely other gods.

Without all of this and forgetting obvious feats Shinza gods still law hax the hell out of DB and call it a day without knowing they were fighting

 

[Lenus010]

Sensory Mercurius's """Mindfuckery""" as far as we see it in dies irae is just Mercurius nearly driving a bunch of nutjobs up a wall through his laughter, and because the lines said that it was from his true self that must mean its right!!! no hyperbole what so ever guys!!! lets just ignore every DBH thread denied on this site that followed the same narrowminded logic while double standarding for a dead visual novel!!!

 

[Darksmash]

this tbfh, a problem that has been plaguing the VN since it got popular. Instead of discussions on if the series is well written or not mens are out here with "High oucherverbal Dwies Away UwU", Can't fathom how Masada would feel knowing this is where his hard work that eventually let to bankruptcy ended up being towards. Lmao true.Not to mention murdering context of feats to make your characters more powerful.(something very common on this site)
That and over fixating on hax while extrapolating what they can used for to the extreme are amongst the biggest flaw of this site TBH.

Ahh yes. >Person killed the embodiment of death >Conceptual manipulation

Also not to mention the cancerous way 1-A battles are handled but that is a story for another day.It really pains me to see the battles getting decided just on who has more transcendences.

 

[Dragomer]

There is a thing called singularity that destroys the minds of any mortal that dares go in it, there they mind fight the shades of the previous gods and if they can't they die or something then there is the wave of Mercury that drives you insane and any God (comparable) can shrug that like nothing.
>The only reason DBH's cosmology isn't 2-A here is because people here like to pretend that when people talk about every possibility,

That's good and all but Shinza still has stupidly high feast that are on the last big CRT, go and read it

>DB character have mind hax resistance feats so they get overwhelmed based on what ?

On the power of the gods, they literally overwhelmed other gods like no tomorrow

>Reitsu crush was litteraly rejected on two different threads by staffs members so you're basicaly just telling me it's a passive version of an already passive ability who's interpretation was rejected.

It was an analogy in case you didn't notice but the spiritual mass of the gods is enough to shit stomp all of creation and most likely other gods.

Without all of this and forgetting obvious feats Shinza gods still law hax the hell out of DB and call it a day without knowing they were fighting

I don't see how fighting with your mind, something Namek Saga Krillin can do, corrolate to mind control resistance, that's insanity resistance more than anything.

Doesn't really matter either way, i just like mentionning that because i don't like this site's stance on that.

'based on the gods' doesn't tell me anything, did it overwhelm another character with established mind hax resistance ?

Demigra threatening all of creation is litteraly what start the game, that's doesn't tell me anything and it has nothing to do with getting mind haxed or not.

Demigra has law manipulation too, that's litteraly on his profile, so unless you give me specifics, 'lol, law hax' doesn't tell me anything.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Dies Irae has been beaten down to the ground by this site at this point, people neglect its okish overall story for how """powerful""" it percieved to be. Sad.

I

Honestly

Laughed

More

Than

I

Should

 

[Ravenous4th]

Unironically true, in a sense that Shinza is mostly perceived as "that one VN with 1-A nazi gods" rather than a decent VN. Though, I don't think that it ever sold because of plot - moreso its charismatic characters.

This has always been the case, you could even see comments like "The second 1-A fight animated!" On YouTube and it's rather saddening.

also the bloody Naraka wanks on YouTube

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alf you have my condolences. I know you don't want to deal with more well...more instances of me.

 

[Chasekilleen]

Unironically true, in a sense that Shinza is mostly perceived as "that one VN with 1-A nazi gods" rather than a decent VN. Though, I don't think that it ever sold because of plot - moreso its charismatic characters.
This has always been the case, you could even see comments like "The second 1-A fight animated!" On YouTube and it's rather saddening.

You forgot the sex scenes as well.

 

[Chasekilleen]

There is a thing called singularity that destroys the minds of any mortal that dares go in it, there they mind fight the shades of the previous gods and if they can't they die or something then there is the wave of Mercury that drives you insane and any God (comparable) can shrug that like nothing.
>The only reason DBH's cosmology isn't 2-A here is because people here like to pretend that when people talk about every possibility,

That's good and all but Shinza still has stupidly high feast that are on the last big CRT, go and read it

>DB character have mind hax resistance feats so they get overwhelmed based on what ?

On the power of the gods, they literally overwhelmed other gods like no tomorrow

>Reitsu crush was litteraly rejected on two different threads by staffs members so you're basicaly just telling me it's a passive version of an already passive ability who's interpretation was rejected.

It was an analogy in case you didn't notice but the spiritual mass of the gods is enough to shit stomp all of creation and most likely other gods.

Without all of this and forgetting obvious feats Shinza gods still law hax the hell out of DB and call it a day without knowing they were fighting

I don't see how fighting with your mind, something Namek Saga Krillin can do, corrolate to mind control resistance, that's insanity resistance more than anything.
Doesn't really matter either way, i just like mentionning that because i don't like this site's stance on that.

'based on the gods' doesn't tell me anything, did it overwhelm another character with established mind hax resistance ?

Demigra threatening all of creation is litteraly what start the game, that's doesn't tell me anything and it has nothing to do with getting mind haxed or not.

Demigra has law manipulation too, that's litteraly on his profile, so unless you give me specifics, 'lol, law hax' doesn't tell me anything.

I heard that a Taikyoku value of 1 is above all of Creations and the highest Taikyoku value is at 100. Hajun has an immesureable amount of the value and Tenma Yato, having 100 Taikyoku value even states that compared to Hajun, he's a human when comparing to Hajun, a true God.

Hajun is infinitely more powerful than all of the Hadou Gods together. And each of the Hadou Gods are high 1A, according to VSBW tiering.

Hajun, he killed 4 Hadou Gods in an instant all together.

But I believe Hajun and Mercurius out hax everyone in Dragon Ball franchise, due to law manipulation.

Law Manipulation

and etc... I still haven't finished reading yet.

But Reinhard and Mercurius are capable of throwing an infinite multiverse at their opponent's face tho.

They have tons of conceptual attacks, but Dragon Ball focuses on physical feats.

Generally concept >>>>>>>>> physical.

 

[Darksmash]

I don't see how fighting with your mind, something Namek Saga Krillin can do, corrolate to mind control resistance, that's insanity resistance more than anything.
Doesn't really matter either way, i just like mentionning that because i don't like this site's stance on that.

'based on the gods' doesn't tell me anything, did it overwhelm another character with established mind hax resistance ?

Demigra threatening all of creation is litteraly what start the game, that's doesn't tell me anything and it has nothing to do with getting mind haxed or not.

Demigra has law manipulation too, that's litteraly on his profile, so unless you give me specifics, 'lol, law hax' doesn't tell me anything.

I heard that a Taikyoku value of 1 is above all of Creations and the highest Taikyoku value is at 100. Hajun has an immesureable amount of the value and Tenma Yato, having 100 Taikyoku value even states that compared to Hajun, he's a human when comparing to Hajun, a true God.

Hajun is infinitely more powerful than all of the Hadou Gods together. And each of the Hadou Gods are high 1A, according to VSBW tiering.

Hajun, he killed 4 Hadou Gods in an instant all together.

But I believe Hajun and Mercurius out hax everyone in Dragon Ball franchise, due to law manipulation.

Law Manipulation

and etc... I still haven't finished reading yet.

But Reinhard and Mercurius are capable of throwing an infinite multiverse at their opponent's face tho.

They have tons of conceptual attacks, but Dragon Ball focuses on physical feats.

Generally concept >>>>>>>>> physical.

didnt you say about ignoring the tierings???

 

[Ravenous4th]

I honestly believe that this thread shouldn't have existed, and should be stopped right now because I can't conceivably see anything productive that can come out of this thread. At first, it was (jokingly?) about a versus, then it slowly turned into an outlet for people who are dissatisfied with the site's overall ratings. Now we're back to using the tiering system and Shinza apparently stomps.

Give it a bit more time and I'm pretty sure it will turn into Xeno Goku vs Reinhard 2.0 - this won't go anywhere, like, really.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Classic i tell you

 

[Darksmash]

I honestly believe that this thread shouldn't have existed, and should be stopped right now because I can't conceivably see anything productive that can come out of this thread. At first, it was (jokingly?) about a versus, then it slowly turned into an outlet for people who are dissatisfied with the site's overall ratings. Now we're back to using the tiering system and Shinza apparently stomps.

Give it a bit more time and I'm pretty sure it will turn into Xeno Goku vs Reinhard 2.0 - this won't go anywhere, like, really.

Are you talking about the spacebattles thread by any chance?

 

[Chasekilleen]

I don't see how fighting with your mind, something Namek Saga Krillin can do, corrolate to mind control resistance, that's insanity resistance more than anything.
Doesn't really matter either way, i just like mentionning that because i don't like this site's stance on that.

'based on the gods' doesn't tell me anything, did it overwhelm another character with established mind hax resistance ?

Demigra threatening all of creation is litteraly what start the game, that's doesn't tell me anything and it has nothing to do with getting mind haxed or not.

Demigra has law manipulation too, that's litteraly on his profile, so unless you give me specifics, 'lol, law hax' doesn't tell me anything.

I heard that a Taikyoku value of 1 is above all of Creations and the highest Taikyoku value is at 100. Hajun has an immesureable amount of the value and Tenma Yato, having 100 Taikyoku value even states that compared to Hajun, he's a human when comparing to Hajun, a true God.
Hajun is infinitely more powerful than all of the Hadou Gods together. And each of the Hadou Gods are high 1A, according to VSBW tiering.

Hajun, he killed 4 Hadou Gods in an instant all together.

But I believe Hajun and Mercurius out hax everyone in Dragon Ball franchise, due to law manipulation.

Law Manipulation

and etc... I still haven't finished reading yet.

But Reinhard and Mercurius are capable of throwing an infinite multiverse at their opponent's face tho.

They have tons of conceptual attacks, but Dragon Ball focuses on physical feats.

Generally concept >>>>>>>>> physical.

didnt you say about ignoring the tierings???
I said no VSBW 1A and 2B tiering stuff, but that doesn't exclude Taikyoku value scaling or tiering.

 

[Darksmash]

All right so what exactly is the explict difference between any two taikyoku values(Without taking hax and feats out of context)?

 

[Chasekilleen]

I honestly believe that this thread shouldn't have existed, and should be stopped right now because I can't conceivably see anything productive that can come out of this thread. At first, it was (jokingly?) about a versus, then it slowly turned into an outlet for people who are dissatisfied with the site's overall ratings. Now we're back to using the tiering system and Shinza apparently stomps.
Give it a bit more time and I'm pretty sure it will turn into Xeno Goku vs Reinhard 2.0 - this won't go anywhere, like, really.

Hax wise Shinza is superior tho.

I'm pretty sure I mean soul manipulation and law manipulation including reality warping, causality manipulation, power nullification and also conceptual attacks and for example anything near Tenma Yato's vicinity gets nullified due to time stop and he has layers of those time stop armours around himself.

And it's not a fodder ability, as it stops all existences of time conceptually in every single realms.

 

[Darksmash]

I wish more of these battles here were debated using hax rather than just the levels of transcendence.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

They have a lot of abilities but neither DB character actually uses them. Mindhax and punching are all that can be expected of them, respectively.

 

[SchroKatze]

Ren's time stop isn't time stop. its immutability/stagnation, it negates/refuses any change, which in turn stops time because time "moving" is a type of change.


anyways, feats wise and hax wise Shinza still stomps, Rein stomps hard due to how much hax and durability he has. lel. Hajun literally ends the enemy team by existing.

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

Feat Wise:

• Sequere Naturam: (You Are to Follow Nature) Mercurius unleashes a Supernovae that consists of thousands upon thousands of stars condensed into a single blast that can atomize Gods from the inside. This move was also powerful enough to have been able to instantly kill Nerose Satanel, a Hadou God equal in power to the likes of Ren and Reinhard during Marie's Route, in one hit. [High 1-A]
• Dura Lex Sed Lex: (The Law is Harsh But It Is Law) Mercurius creates a Great Attractor which draws everything towards it into a singularity. [2-A]
• Aurea Mediocritas: (The Golden Mea) Mercurius aligns the stars into a Grand Cross, causing an astrological energy surge that can incinerate Atziluth Gods from inside-out. [High 1-A]
• Omnia Fert Aetas: (Time Robs Us of All) Mercurius makes all of existence into an elementary particle and sends it into the past of the opponent, thus causing a paradox and erasing them from existence. [2-A]
• Disce Libens: (Learn Eagerly) Mercurius condenses all the stars in the multiverse into a black hole that destroys everything. This causes everything in existence to be erased completely, including the Throne itself. [High 1-A]
• Law of Foreknowledge (Wave of Mercury/Mercurial Curse): Mercurius' Law, the Law of Foreknowledge, has the added effect of "devouring the mind". And Mercurius' Sensory, who embodies this law, is able to "invoke anxiety upon all who laid eyes upon him", and through his "endless babbling" is able to turn that anxiety into irritation, and that irritation into a mindless rage, while simultaneously making those around him feel like it "isn't right" to try and kill him. Mercurius' can also incidentally "reveal his true self" and release a pressure that is "heavy enough to stick and burden the very soul". Even stating that the members of the LDOs' minds and bodies wouldn't be able to take much more of him doing that.

This applies to a 2-A Multiverse, and he is capable of destroying it all in a singular blast, he also destroyed the Throne, a High 1-A construct vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/48/Destruction_of_throne.png/revision/latest?cb=20170629185048

Xeno was only scaled to Demigra who could cause the collapse of a 2-B (finite) Multiverse.

You are literally comparing a being whose weakest feats are 2-A, and strongest are High 1-A, to a being whose strongest feats are 2-B. Disce Libens is a shown feat, not bulit off of levels of transcendence, that reaches levels of High 1-A. Or if you don't want to use Tier 1, it is at least 2-A through destroying an infinite multiverse. Compared to the finite multiverse of Dragon Ball.

It would also be a blitz, Demigra and Xeno Goku are only in the MFTL+ range, while both Mercurius and Hajun are Nigh-Omnipresent to Omnipresent.

Hajun was also able to absolutely curbstomp Marie, Mercurius, and Reinhard. Allowing with leaving Ren mortally injured. All of which are beings that could destroy the Throne and the infinite multiverse below it.

This is not even worth discussing as feats are what we use for tiering, and even if you don't count Taikyoku's levels of transcendence Hajun and Snek still stomp through the virtue of Shinza being a 2-A multiverse.

 

[Chasekilleen]

Feat Wise:

• Sequere Naturam: (You Are to Follow Nature) Mercurius unleashes a Supernovae that consists of thousands upon thousands of stars condensed into a single blast that can atomize Gods from the inside. This move was also powerful enough to have been able to instantly kill Nerose Satanel, a Hadou God equal in power to the likes of Ren and Reinhard during Marie's Route, in one hit. [High 1-A]
• Dura Lex Sed Lex: (The Law is Harsh But It Is Law) Mercurius creates a Great Attractor which draws everything towards it into a singularity. [2-A]
• Aurea Mediocritas: (The Golden Mea) Mercurius aligns the stars into a Grand Cross, causing an astrological energy surge that can incinerate Atziluth Gods from inside-out. [High 1-A]
• Omnia Fert Aetas: (Time Robs Us of All) Mercurius makes all of existence into an elementary particle and sends it into the past of the opponent, thus causing a paradox and erasing them from existence. [2-A]
• Disce Libens: (Learn Eagerly) Mercurius condenses all the stars in the multiverse into a black hole that destroys everything. This causes everything in existence to be erased completely, including the Throne itself. [High 1-A]
• Law of Foreknowledge (Wave of Mercury/Mercurial Curse): Mercurius' Law, the Law of Foreknowledge, has the added effect of "devouring the mind". And Mercurius' Sensory, who embodies this law, is able to "invoke anxiety upon all who laid eyes upon him", and through his "endless babbling" is able to turn that anxiety into irritation, and that irritation into a mindless rage, while simultaneously making those around him feel like it "isn't right" to try and kill him. Mercurius' can also incidentally "reveal his true self" and release a pressure that is "heavy enough to stick and burden the very soul". Even stating that the members of the LDOs' minds and bodies wouldn't be able to take much more of him doing that.

This applies to a 2-A Multiverse, and he is capable of destroying it all in a singular blast, he also destroyed the Throne, a High 1-A construct vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/48/Destruction_of_throne.png/revision/latest?cb=20170629185048

Xeno was only scaled to Demigra who could cause the collapse of a 2-B (finite) Multiverse.

You are literally comparing a being whose weakest feats are 2-A, and strongest are High 1-A, to a being whose strongest feats are 2-B. Disce Libens is a shown feat, not bulit off of levels of transcendence, that reaches levels of High 1-A. Or if you don't want to use Tier 1, it is at least 2-A through destroying an infinite multiverse. Compared to the finite multiverse of Dragon Ball.

It would also be a blitz, Demigra and Xeno Goku are only in the MFTL+ range, while both Mercurius and Hajun are Nigh-Omnipresent to Omnipresent.

Hajun was also able to absolutely curbstomp Marie, Mercurius, and Reinhard. Allowing with leaving Ren mortally injured. All of which are beings that could destroy the Throne and the infinite multiverse below it.

This is not even worth discussing as feats are what we use for tiering, and even if you don't count Taikyoku's levels of transcendence Hajun and Snek still stomp through the virtue of Shinza being a 2-A multiverse.

Nice in-depth explanations on the individual abilities, but I heard a guy saying that Dragon Ball Heroes doesn't have finite timelines or multiverse?

Because Fu apparently said that it is not finite or something along the lines??

 

[Zoey_of_Scadrial]

As far as I know it is finite. and what I read in here says that All Possibilities = Infinite, despite that being untrue, and should not be held as factual within a givin Verse unless stated to be so. Even if you take every single possibility, from Big Bang to Heat Death, you would not have infinite possibilities.

Fiction often shows it as such, but I require a statement to take this as a proof of a 2-A cosmology.

Anyway I thought that DB only had 7 Universes. Which should put it at 2-C. But I guess that DBH is different.