Wow, another One Punch Man CRT.

[ByAsura]

Tbh, acting like TTM is “holding out” against Gums and that somehow invalidates Genos doing it is kinda disingenuous.

In the first scan, Pig God immediately has to save him. In every other scan, TTM is taking a lot of damage from Gums biting him. He’s not “holding out,” he’s just not dying, which is more endurance than durability. Meanwhile Genos gets bitten by Gums and takes no damage whatsoever. (plus his AP is much greater than his durability in this key)

And I see no reason whatsoever to assume this giant ass Black Sperm is weaker than the tiny ones here, nor does it invalidate Genos scaling considering that there’s 3-5 of them restraining him when his arm gets ripped off, so he can’t properly defend himself, he’s likely weakened, and it seems like he was already damaged off-screen.

It does, because Genos was struggling a lot to get out with his strength. His blasts also only succeeded in somewhat damaging Guts' insides.

Firstly, there's no indication Pig God had to save him from dying or something, just take him out of Gums' mouth because he was completely restrained. Secondly, no, he stopped Gums from consuming him for quite a while without really taking much damage. Also, there's very little actual damage to him when Gums bites down the second time, and he's completely active later. Not to mention that these same teeth pierced Fuhrer Ugly's skin after he'd been amped by Bang making him feel even more worthless. Lastly, Genos' arm was completely restrained by this bite, and TTM could resist it. So they're not far from each other in terms of physicals.

Weakening or restraining Genos does not alter his armour quality, and therefore durability, whatsoever. Assuming his durability changes here is the disingenuous part. Also, they proceed to take off his arms and legs, yet he can still escape, so it's unlikely they held him every time.

"it seems like he was already damaged off-screen"

Where? I can't see any damage from anyone except the BS clones. And that also makes no sense because he was undamaged before started combat with them, so the damage would come from them and, therefore, prove my point.

 

[LordTracer]

Firstly, there's no indication Pig God had to save him, just take him out of Gums' mouth.

TTM was straining himself to hold back Gums’ jaws and only got out once Pig God intervened. And in the second time that TTM got bitten, Pig God had to intervene again. Both of those imply that Gums > TTM, and that TTM couldn’t get out of there on his own.

Lastly, Genos was completely restrained by this bite, and TTM could resist it. So they're not far from each other in sheer strength.

Genos only had one arm restrained while TTM was unable to get out despite pushing Gums’ jaw with both arms, and he was visibly straining himself to do so. That doesn’t imply they’re near each other in strength.

Because they literally were ripping Genos apart. Weakening or restraining Genos does not alter his armour quality, and therefore durability, whatsoever.

Even though only a few chapters earlier, Genos tanked a hit from several Black Sperms merged together, as well as hits from multiple separate ones while holding Tatsumaki.

If anything, one Black Sperm scaling above Genos’ durability is the inconsistency here. Several of them… sure, but that doesn’t exactly prevent Genos from being a 7-B.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll respond later. If have to go out.

 

[ByAsura]

TTM was straining himself to hold back Gums’ jaws and only got out once Pig God intervened. And in the second time that TTM got bitten, Pig God had to intervene again. Both of those imply that Gums > TTM, and that TTM couldn’t get out of there on his own.

Yes, exactly, he was able to stop Gums' jaws. Genos didn't escape at all, and struggled against Gums. So Gums isn't far superior to TTM, and Genos isn't far superior to Gums or TTM. I'm not claiming they're strength is exactly in the same league, I'm proving that they're not too far apart.

That second time Gums literally clamped down on his neck while he was off guard, and was almost inside him. Yet, he managed to stop his jaws closing from an extremely awkward angle.

Genos only had one arm restrained while TTM was unable to get out despite pushing Gums’ jaw with both arms, and he was visibly straining himself to do so. That doesn’t imply they’re near each other in strength.

Genos was completely unable to get out at all with his own strength, while TTM was strong enough to prevent his jaws from closing completely. You're just splitting hairs here.

Even though only a few chapters earlier, Genos tanked a hit from several Black Sperms merged together, as well as hits from multiple separate ones while holding Tatsumaki. If anything, one Black Sperm scaling above Genos’ durability is the inconsistency here. Several of them… sure, but that doesn’t exactly prevent Genos from being a 7-B.

Firstly, there's also multiple panels of him getting curbstomped by these BS clones. Those are the inconsistencies if you really want to go there. Secondly, size means absolutely nothing when it comes to BS. All BS clones are intrinsically fusions, unless divided to maximum limit, and can appear larger.

 

[LordTracer]

I’ll concede the TTM/Guns/Genos thing because it really doesn’t matter.

Firstly, there's also multiple panels of him getting curbstomped by these BS clones.

There’s like two. One where his arm gets ripped off and the one where he’s completely destroyed, and we have literally no idea how that second one happened because it happened off-screen.

Secondly, size means absolutely nothing when it comes to BS.

I straight up didn’t mention size once in my last post so like

All BS clones are intrinsically fusions, unless divided to maximum limit, and can appear larger.

Yes, I’m aware. However, the one that hit Genos is visibly shown to be composed of multiple Black Sperms, and unless I missed something, there is nothing showing that Black Sperm divided himself more even more and became weaker.

Also what exactly prevents both the merger Black Sperm and the tiny ones from being 7-B?

 

[Ourosboros]

Okay, so the only tier 7 characters being discussed right now are Genos, Gums and Black S? Psykosjet should still be 7-B, so Genos must also be 7-B. If Genos's 7-B status is in question, then Drive Knight and Nyan should also be on the chopping block.

What tiering are you proposing Asura? I know LordTracer is arguing for 7-B for all those characters, but I'm not sure what tier you would like for these characters.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, so the only tier 7 characters being discussed right now are Genos, Gums and Black S? Psykosjet should still be 7-B, so Genos must also be 7-B. If Genos's 7-B status is in question, then Drive Knight and Nyan should also be on the chopping block.

Really it’s just Genos being 7-B by scaling Black Sperm.

If we’re in agreement on Psykosjet being 7-B, then Genos can just scale to her instead of Black Sperm.

 

[Ourosboros]

Really it’s just Genos being 7-B by scaling Black Sperm.

If we’re in agreement on Psykosjet being 7-B, then Genos can just scale to her instead of Black Sperm.

Oh, it seems I misunderstood. What scaling chain would make Black Sperm 7-B if not Psykos? I don't think Atomic has 7-B durability and the durable at least 7-Bs were able to no-sell his attacks. Psykos was injured, but was still fused with a building-sized Orochi chunk so I think it's fair to say she can't be too much weaker than Peak Psykos.

My proposition is: just make Psykosjet 7-B and then Genos and DK are 7-B, peak Black Sperm is also 7-B and Nyan should be 7-B too (harmed Bishop form, which tanked Psykos's missile attacks). Gums should be 7-B too... which I don't like but I suppose is unavoidable.

 

[LordTracer]

What scaling chain would make Black Sperm 7-B if not Psykos?

It was from scaling to Atomic Samurai, who in turn scales above Half-Monster Garou.

My proposition is: just make Psykosjet 7-B and then Genos and DK are 7-B, peak Black Sperm is also 7-B and Nyan should be 7-B too (harmed Bishop form, which tanked Psykos's missile attacks). Gums should be 7-B too... which I don't like but I suppose is unavoidable.

I can agree with this.

 

[Ourosboros]

Question, will Base Orochi scale to or above 4.4 gigatons (peak Homeless Emperor)? There is an ongoing Zoro vs Base Orochi fight that will have to be redone accordingly.

 

[LordTracer]

Above. He’d actually be 12.6 gigatons, since he scales above Geryuganshoop.

 

[Ourosboros]

I'm fine with that but if there are any objections, let's hear them now. Geryuganshoop's attack was considered an outlier previously because it so far outstripped other dragon level calcs and stood only on a Murata statement. If the calc is no longer an outlier, are we fine with scaling Base Boros and Orochi to it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

contradicted, and nothing does.

BS has no set durability and gets harmed by everything that attacks it. He can't have a solid durability rating.

 

[ImposingTiger]

He can't have a solid durability rating.

Because his strength varies. His AP does as well. He gets damaged by heroes like Spring Mustachio mainly because those clones have been split up to an extreme degree.

 

[Ourosboros]

What durability feats does Black Sperm have, outside of not splattering into pieces from throwing his own punches?

 

[Epiccheev]

not getting splattered by the rubble AS slashed off. (wich would still be like tier 9)

 

[Ourosboros]

not getting splattered by the rubble AS slashed off. (wich would still be like tier 9)

True, but has he tanked any attacks tiger/demon/dragon level or otherwise? Maybe Tigers couldn't harm him, but if you tried to scale his durability based on everything we've seen so far it'd be mid-demon at best. We can scale people using his AP (noting that it varies and has a clear cap) but not based on harming him.

 

[Ourosboros]

If most people are okay with scaling Psykosjet to 7-B, that resolves scaling for Peak Black Sperm, Genos, Drive Knight, Nyan and Gums- they all become 7-B in their own rights.

Then we need to decide if we use the 12 gigaton Geryuganshoop feat for scaling Base Orochi and Boros. If we do, then Geryuganshoop should go back to 6-C as well because we should either say the statement is valid for scaling all characters involved or that it only merits a possibly rating.

If we can agree on those two articles one way or another we can close this thread and start implementing changes

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Question, will Base Orochi scale to or above 4.4 gigatons (peak Homeless Emperor)? There is an ongoing Zoro vs Base Orochi fight that will have to be redone accordingly.

Orochi and Boros are scaling above HE, or at least that's been agreed upon thus far. GS on the other hand some disagree still.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Then we need to decide if we use the 12 gigaton Geryuganshoop feat for scaling Base Orochi and Boros. If we do, then Geryuganshoop should go back to 6-C as well because we should either say the statement is valid for scaling all characters involved or that it only merits a possibly rating.

I still think Geryu should keep the possibly, as it's where Murata does claim himself not to be fully reliable.

I guess, At least 6-C possibly higher is fine IMO. Or I y'all want, we can just merge them and go with At least 6-C fully. I'll just see what majority thinks is right

 

[LordTracer]

Geryuganshoop should keep the possibly, but Armored Boros and First Form Orochi should be totally 6-C since they’d also be scaling above HE’s calc.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I mean, given that Geryus 6-C is stronger Ethan HE'd 6-C, shouldn't he get get a possibly higher for being possibly higher in the tier?

 

[Kachon123]

Can we give Goo Orochi a Key? He was able to momentarily restrain Psykos, and surprised her with his power.

 

[LordTracer]

I mean, given that Geryus 6-C is stronger Ethan HE'd 6-C, shouldn't he get get a possibly higher for being possibly higher in the tier?

Uh, no? Why would Geryuganshoop get a ‘possibly higher’ on top of his own calc?

 

[Epiccheev]

I think he was talking about Orochi and Boros

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Can we give Goo Orochi a Key? He was able to momentarily restrain Psykos, and surprised her with his power.

Doesn't seem like it needs one imo

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Uh, no? Why would Geryuganshoop get a ‘possibly higher’ on top of his own calc?

I was referring to Orochi and Boros getting the possibly higher

 

[LordTracer]

I was referring to Orochi and Boros getting the possibly higher

Eh… I think ‘At least 6-C’ would work better.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Eh… I think ‘At least 6-C’ would work better.

Aight then

 

[Epiccheev]

Would his 6-C scale to HE or to Geryuganshoop?

 

[LordTracer]

Would his 6-C scale to HE or to Geryuganshoop?

Both.

 

[Epiccheev]

Schrodinger's AP

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think I'll just apply try stuff already agreed upon, the smaller stuff.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The only pages I need unlocked are Garou and Boros btw

 

[ByAsura]

There’s like two. One where his arm gets ripped off and the one where he’s completely destroyed, and we have literally no idea how that second one happened because it happened off-screen.

There's 3, including one where Genos is getting his face cracked by punches.

Come on, we know exactly what happened. Genos was ripped apart just like the first panel. We don't have to see the panel to know that.

I straight up didn’t mention size once in my last post so like

Yes, I’m aware. However, the one that hit Genos is visibly shown to be composed of multiple Black Sperms, and unless I missed something, there is nothing showing that Black Sperm divided himself more even more and became weaker.

Also what exactly prevents both the merger Black Sperm and the tiny ones from being 7-B?

I did. Size doesn't matter was what I was saying.

And, once again, being composed of multiple doesn't matter. These weren't the ones who were split to capacity, these we're the left-overs that didn't fuse with BS. They could be a hell of a lot larger than those ones.

TTM scaling. That's why I brought this up. Genos would still be Low 7-B, though. Also, it really does make no sense because BS harmed Atomic Samurai (probably a glass cannon, anyway) at pretty much the highest possible level of strength he could be, while the ones that hit Genos had most of their cells put into GS, and were a much larger swarm.

 

[LordTracer]

I’m not trying to scale Genos to Black Sperm anymore, I’m going with Ourosboros’ suggestions.

My proposition is: just make Psykosjet 7-B and then Genos and DK are 7-B, peak Black Sperm is also 7-B and Nyan should be 7-B too (harmed Bishop form, which tanked Psykos's missile attacks). Gums should be 7-B too... which I don't like but I suppose is unavoidable

If most people are okay with scaling Psykosjet to 7-B, that resolves scaling for Peak Black Sperm, Genos, Drive Knight, Nyan and Gums- they all become 7-B in their own rights.

 

[ByAsura]

The PsykoJet is created by circular scaling to Genos to begin with.

 

[LordTracer]

The PsykoJet is created by circular scaling to Genos.

In the OP, yes. However, multiple people in this thread have brought up that Psykosjet should not be any weaker (or at the very least, not so much weaker that she becomes Low 7-B) than base Psykos.

 

[ByAsura]

While I don't disagree, we need some measure of proof. We're already scaling the jet below Orochi, one of the fusion components, so an explanation is needed.

Plus, Psykos only scales above pre-Molt EC, whose best feat is causing some pain to Bang and Bomb after they'd used a technique they can only do once a day.

Even then, Genos and Drive Knight are still weaker than her, also not enough to change tiers, but enough for her to match the Promoted Rook and take both of them out with a full power blast. Nyan would downscale from this because he wasn't powerful enough to dispel the Bishop with one hit.

 

[LordTracer]

Plus, Psykos only scales above pre-Molt EC, whose best feat is causing some pain to Bang and Bomb.

And, y’know, his own calc that’s the reason anyone even scales to 7-B?

Even, Genos and Drive Knight are still weaker than her, also not enough to change tiers, but enough for her to match the Promoted Rook and take both of them out with a full power blast. Nyan would downscale from this because he wasn't powerful enough to dispel the Bishop with one hit.

Ehhhh Genos was pretty much undamaged by her blast (and as we know, his AP > durability in this key) and Drive Knight was straight-up matching her shots.

While I don't disagree, we need some measure of proof.

Wouldn’t there need to be proof that she got weaker as opposed to being the same strength? Cause she’s still connected to Orochi, we even see her jump out of Orochi’s body, so if anything she should be stronger than her base.