Wow, another One Punch Man CRT.

[Emirp sumitpo]

A higher could work. However, considering he has possibly 7-A already, the formatting will look weird

 

[ImposingTiger]

I think the best option is a new key. If we give him the "higher with WSRSF", it would be strange because it would look like: "higher with WSRSF", "higher with AB", higher with AB and WSRSF".

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

We're removing higher with WSRSF fyi

 

[ImposingTiger]

I don't agree with the removal.

I would remove it from Orochi's second key tho, because the Large Island level beam can't be amped with martial arts. Or say: large island level with heat blasts.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Why exactly, it only exists because of the Garou vs TTM scaling, and now that that's debunked there's no reason to keep it.

Large Island level beam can't be amped with martial arts. Or say: large island level with heat blasts.

High 6-C scales to his physicals.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Except HE's plan was to wait for Black Sperm to be weakened so that he can easily wipe him out.

His orginal plan was the carpet bomb, which as we've seen isn't composed of strong singular blasts but a spam of moderately powerful blasts. To scale to 6-C you're suggesting he's stronger than HE's giant mega ball, which there's no indication of at the moment.

 

[Antvasima]

Scaling revisions mostly for mid tier 7 characters are all that's left. Most of in the OP is accepted

Okay.

 

[Ourosboros]

His strength is apparently "nuclear-powered", but a sword's not really something like a bat, though. His slashes affect smaller surface areas, and he has insane techniques.

The scaling here is honestly extremely weird, as it makes Gums (grossly outclassed by both pre-vomit Fuhrer Ugly and Bang), Bang, Genos and AS all around the same level.

Agreed. I think Gums, Genos and peak Black Sperm don't deserve to be in the same tier as Bang, Darkshine, VFU, etc... Gums got outclassed repeatedly, Genos took damage from Gums and regular Black Sperm clones and Black Sperm at his best was helpless against VFU and Darkshine.

That makes me wonder, where does promoted rook fit into all of this? I assume we're keeping that as a key.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Agreed. I think Gums, Genos and peak Black Sperm don't deserve to be in the same tier as Bang, Darkshine, VFU, etc... Gums got outclassed repeatedly, Genos took damage from Gums and regular Black Sperm clones and Black Sperm at his best was helpless against VFU and Darkshine.

That makes me wonder, where does promoted rook fit into all of this? I assume we're keeping that as a key.

Promoted Rook got turned into it's own profile a long time ago, and basically just automatically scales above Genos and Drive knight

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I just realized I forgot to change Promoted Rook's speed from At least Sub Rel to At least MHS. I'll do so tomorrow

 

[LordTracer]

Also would PsykoJet scale in anyway to peak Psykos?

Y E S

There are less than zero reasons to assume Jet Psykos magically got weaker than her base unfused self.

Genos' only experience is getting bitten by Gums, which even TTM could hold out against and even withstand in an already nearly dead state after getting his bones pummelled into broken glass by Fuhrer Ugly, and being hit by a weaker clone of BS.

Tbh, acting like TTM is “holding out” against Gums and that somehow invalidates Genos doing it is kinda disingenuous.

In the first scan, Pig God immediately has to save him. In every other scan, TTM is taking a lot of damage from Gums biting him. He’s not “holding out,” he’s just not dying, which is more endurance than durability. Meanwhile Genos gets bitten by Gums and takes no damage whatsoever. (plus his AP is much greater than his durability in this key)

And I see no reason whatsoever to assume this giant ass Black Sperm is weaker than the tiny ones here, nor does it invalidate Genos scaling considering that there’s 3-5 of them restraining him when his arm gets ripped off, so he can’t properly defend himself, he’s likely weakened, and it seems like he was already damaged off-screen.

Agreed. I think Gums, Genos and peak Black Sperm don't deserve to be in the same tier as Bang, Darkshine, VFU, etc... Gums got outclassed repeatedly, Genos took damage from Gums and regular Black Sperm clones and Black Sperm at his best was helpless against VFU and Darkshine.

Genos did not take damage from Gums biting him, and Black Sperm was “helpless” against VFU because he was y’know, covered in acid?

Large strength gaps don’t prevent people from being in the same tier anyways, especially since the 7-B calc they’re scaling to is nowhere near baseline. So saying “Genos and Black Sperm shouldn’t be in the same tier as Bang” is not a proper argument.

 

[ImposingTiger]

There are less than zero reasons to assume Jet Psykos magically got weaker than her base unfused self.

There is a scene where she gets damage while inside Neuron Psykos so her base state is already damaged to an unknown degree. It's vague.

And I see no reason whatsoever to assume this giant ass Black Sperm is weaker than the tiny ones here, nor does it invalidate Genos scaling considering that there’s 3-5 of them restraining him when his arm gets ripped off, so he can’t properly defend himself, he’s likely weakened, and it seems like he was already damaged off-screen.

Size does not equal strength in the case of BS. GS would be weaker than the giant BS if that were how it worked. Plus, the clones that got one shoted by Meta Bat had 2500 copies each, they could very well be stronger than the giant one too. I agree Genos could have already taken some damage offscreen tho.

Genos did not take damage from Gums biting him,

Mmm, those rays probably indicate that his arm is starting to break.

 

[Kin201]

Psykos didn't use TK and create a psychic barrier against Genos and Drive Knight, so I don't know. She just fired energy beams via Orochi iirc.

 

[LordTracer]

There is a scene where she gets damage while inside Neuron Psykos so her base state is already damaged to an unknown degree. It's vague.

Unknown and vague degrees of damage doesn’t sound like anything that’d make Psykosjet vastly weaker than her base self (especially since she is still connected to some of Orochi) so ¯\(ツ)/¯

Size does not equal strength in the case of BS.

Nor did I say that it did. In case you didn’t notice, that giant BS is a merger of multiple Black Sperms.

Plus, the clones that got one shoted by Meta Bat had 2500 copies each, they could very well be stronger than the giant one too.

You do realize Black Sperm has Unknown durability so like, it being below Metal Bat in durability doesn’t prevent it from being 7-B in AP.

Mmm, those rays probably indicate that his arm is starting to break.

And the next time we see his arm, there’s no damage to it. At all.

 

[Kin201]

The issue with Psykosjet scaling to Psykos is that we are assuming Psykojet's durability is comparable or superior to Psykos' psychic barrier.

Psykos' durability comes from creating a psychic barrier that protects her. Psykojet's durability is different.

 

[LordTracer]

Btw Genos took hits from multiple Black Sperm several chapters earlier, receiving no visible damage, so…

The issue with Psykosjet scaling to Psykos is that we are assuming Psykojet's durability is comparable or superior to Psykos' psychic barrier.

No… we’re talking about Psykosjet’s AP scaling to Psykos. Not her durability.

 

[Kin201]

Psykos uses TK and Psykosjet fires beams. They fight differently.

 

[LordTracer]

You do realize that Psykosjet has used TK as well, right?

 

[Kin201]

When? I don't remember. They didn't create a psychic barrier to defend against Drive Knight and Genos or restrain them with TK.

 

[LordTracer]

Immediately after becoming a jet, she used TK to throw a bunch of rocks and throw off Tatsumaki’s senses.

And her TK is drawn exactly the same as her blasts, so it’s likely that her blasts come from her TK.

 

[Kachon123]

Doesn't Goo Orochi scale to Peak Psykos via constraining her?

 

[LordTracer]

Physically restraining Psykos doesn’t mean he scales to her TK output.

 

[Ourosboros]

Genos did not take damage from Gums biting him, and Black Sperm was “helpless” against VFU because he was y’know, covered in acid?

Large strength gaps don’t prevent people from being in the same tier anyways, especially since the 7-B calc they’re scaling to is nowhere near baseline. So saying “Genos and Black Sperm shouldn’t be in the same tier as Bang” is not a proper argument.

You're probably right about Genos not taking serious damage from Gums biting him, that was something I theorized when BS ripped off Genos's arm in 148.It was the same arm Gums chomped down on; that arm being weakened at that particular joint would explain why Genos was able to go from taking so much from Black Sperm and taking no serious damage to losing an arm to a single clone. However, that theory is unnecessary now that we saw Black Sperm dismantle Genos without any outside assistance in chapter 149.

VFU has more than just Acid to place him above Black Sperm. He took the Atomic slash with superficial damage (the blade was intact through the last stroke and only melted after the fact)- an attack that > Black Sperm's best attacks. Even without the acid, he'd still be way too tough for Black Sperm.

Let me clarify, I'm not saying they should all be baseline low 7-B, I'm just saying that I don't like them all just upscaling from EC and being "at least 7-B". I believe they should downscale from the characters who upscale (Bang, half monster Garou, VFU, etc) and just be 7-B around EC's level. I don't like having the majority of our characters being "at least X tier" and living in a scaling limbo where they might be 7-B, might be 7-A.

 

[Kachon123]

profile on VSW that has keys for them at 100% power

 

[Ourosboros]

profile on VSW that has keys for them at 100% power

Hmm? Are you suggesting a key for 100% Psykos or something?

 

[Kachon123]

Hmm? Are you suggesting a key for 100% Psykos or something?

No I disproving the argument that new Bang key doesn't make sense

 

[Kin201]

profile on VSW that has keys for them at 100% power

Puri Puri Prisoner also uses 50% power at first, and then transforms to use 100% but he doesn't have 2 two keys for that.

Hmm? Are you suggesting a key for 100% Psykos or something?

He's referring to me regarding my point that whether or not Bang should have another key for him when he uses Awakening Breath. Also, I'm pretty sure that Atomic Slash and that technique of Nichirin didn't hit Fuhrer Ugly because the digestive fluids protected him?

 

[LordTracer]

Genos was able to go from taking so much from Black Sperm and taking no serious damage to losing an arm to a single clone.

I mean, that could also be justified as Genos being weakened from all the battles and damage he’s accumulated, and/or him taking damage off-screen and/or him being unable to defend himself because 3 to 5 other Black Sperms were restraining him while his arm got ripped off.

I'm just saying that I don't like them all just upscaling from EC and being "at least 7-B". I believe they should downscale from the characters who upscale (Bang, half monster Garou, VFU, etc) and just be 7-B around EC's level.

Is that not what the OP is already proposing…? At least, I’m arguing for Genos being just 7-B, so I guess we agree there.

I don't like having the majority of our characters being "at least X tier" and living in a scaling limbo where they might be 7-B, might be 7-A.

That’s not what the ‘At least’ tier is though. As quoted from the Attack Potency page, the ‘At least’ “should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.” It doesn’t mean that they could be the next tier, they’d have a ‘possibly’ or ‘likely’ in that case.

 

[Kachon123]

Physically restraining Psykos doesn’t mean he scales to her TK output.

Goo Orochi still scales higher than all previous Orochi forms due to Psykos being surprised he was hiding his true power.

 

[Kachon123]

Puri Puri Prisoner also uses 50% power at first, and then transforms to use 100% but he doesn't have 2 two keys for that.

If we are going by that argument, every passive fighter would have a 20% key in their profile. It doesn't make sense.

 

[LordTracer]

Goo Orochi still scales higher than all previous Orochi forms due to Psykos being surprised he was hiding his true power.

You do realize that would imply that Goo Orochi, the same one that Bang and Bomb squished, is High 6-C.

No.

 

[Kachon123]

You do realize that would imply that Goo Orochi, the same one that Bang and Bomb squished, is High 6-C.

No.

I mean, that's Orochi after absorbing nearly the entire MA.

 

[Ourosboros]

I mean, that could also be justified as Genos being weakened from all the battles and damage he’s accumulated, and/or him taking damage off-screen and/or him being unable to defend himself because 3 to 5 other Black Sperms were restraining him while his arm got ripped off.

Is that not what the OP is already proposing…? At least, I’m arguing for Genos being just 7-B, so I guess we agree there.

That’s not what the ‘At least’ tier is though. As quoted from the Attack Potency page, the ‘At least’ “should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.” It doesn’t mean that they could be the next tier, they’d have a ‘possibly’ or ‘likely’ in that case.

Okay

IDK, I thought everyone in that list was going to be "at least". Maybe I misunderstood. If I did misunderstand, great, I agree with some characters being 7-B and certain characters being at least 7-B.

I understand that the "at least" denotes the bare minimum for a character, but I respectfully disagree with applying that logic so broadly. There are many characters who have an "at least X-tier" who we know for certain are in that same tier and no higher. Do we really need to say that certain characters upscale unquantifiably from characters in X tier on the top of their profile, when said upscaling almost certainly still puts them in X tier? I feel like that could just be noted in their AP/Durability justifications and it would make scaling at a glance much easier.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Nor did I say that it did. In case you didn’t notice, that giant BS is a merger of multiple Black Sperms.

And the BS that damaged AS is also a combination of multiple black sperms. I don't see your point.

You do realize Black Sperm has Unknown durability so like, it being below Metal Bat in durability doesn’t prevent it from being 7-B in AP.

His durability should be comparable to his AP by default unless it is contradicted, and nothing does.

And the next time we see his arm, there’s no damage to it. At all.

There isn't visible damage when Genos reattaches his arm against Garou, yet he had some broken pieces of metal, meaning there was indeed some damage. The fact that his arm shows some reaction means that it is being affected in some way or another.

Unknown and vague degrees of damage doesn’t sound like anything that’d make Psykosjet vastly weaker than her base self (especially since she is still connected to some of Orochi) so ¯\(ツ)/¯

Doesn't sound... lol, the thing is that she received damage, meaning her base state isn't 100% as strong as Elixir Psykos. Now, she has Goo Orochi on top of that, but there is no proof that makes her stronger than her past base self, because it is unquantifiable. Do the scaling with both interpretations and see what makes the most sense.

 

[LordTracer]

And the BS that damaged AS is also a combination of multiple black sperms. I don't see your point.

Combination of Black Sperms > individual Black Sperms. Genos can tank a hit from a combined Black Sperm, AND he can tank hits from multiple while being unable to defend himself, so saying his durability scales beneath a singular one doesn’t make sense and is contradicted by previous feats.

His durability should be comparable to his AP by default unless it is contradicted, and nothing does.

Look at Black Sperm’s profile and you’ll notice how the durability section says Unknown. If you want that to be different, you’ll need to make your own CRT.

yet he had some broken pieces of metal, meaning there was indeed some damage

That’s literally visible damage lmao

The fact that his arm shows some reaction means that it is being affected in some way or another.

Or Genos could just, y’know, be charging a blast.

but there is no proof that makes her stronger than her past base self

Where did I say Psykosjet is stronger? Please, show me where in this thread did I make the argument that she’s stronger than base Psykos?

 

[ImposingTiger]

I mean, that's Orochi after absorbing nearly the entire MA.

This is an interesting topic.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Combination of Black Sperms > individual Black Sperms. Genos can tank a hit from a combined Black Sperm, so saying he’s weaker than a singular one doesn’t make sense.

No. That's not how it works. Then GS or Multicell Sperm (in webcomic continuity) should not be stronger than this giant BS simply because it is not a multiple cell looking body. BS can be merged without having a multi body appearence. Look at BS clones that fought Metal Bat. They were tiny yet each one probably had more BS individuals than the giant BS.

Look at Black Sperm’s profile and you’ll notice how the durability section says Unknown. If you want that to be different, you’ll need to make your own CRT.

Yes, I don't agree with that rating.

That’s literally visible damage lmao

As you said, we are talking about the effect after the sequence happens. While Garou is attacking, there is visible damage but when the arm is reattached the damage is apparently gone. The same happens with Genos' arm against Gums.

Or Genos could just, y’know, be charging a blast.

Yeah sure.

There are less than zero reasons to assume Jet Psykos magically got weaker than her base unfused self.

Where did I say Psykosjet is stronger? Please, show me where in this thread did I make the argument that she’s stronger than base Psykos?

I am proving you wrong There are no zero reasons to assume such a thing, there are multiple reasons. What you say isn't necessarily true.

 

[LordTracer]

No. That's not how it works. Then GS or Multicell Sperm in webcomic should not be stronger than this giant BS simply because it is not a multiple cell looking body. BS can be merged without having a multi body appearence. Look at BS clones that fought Metal Bat. They were tiny yet each one probably had more BS individuals than the giant BS.

Alright, let’s say that the small Black Sperms are stronger than the one that Genos took a hit from.

Then there’s no contradictions to Genos being a 7-B.

Yes, I don't agree with that rating.

Cool, make a CRT to change it.

The same happens with Genos' arm against Gums.

Except you immediately after concede that Genos could just be charging a blast, so

Not like this point matters, even if Gums is damaging Genos, 7-B Gums doesn’t cause any contradictions.

I am proving you wrong There are no zero reasons to assume such a thing, there are multiple reasons. What you say isn't necessarily true.

You haven’t proven anything wrong, you said that your own point about Psykos taking damage was unknown and vague.

And even if Psykos did take some slight damage, that still does not justify Psykosjet being a Low 7-B while her base form is a 7-B. At worst, Psykosjet is a slightly lower degree of 7-B. Definitely not 12x weaker.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

His durability should be comparable to his AP by default unless it is contradicted, and nothing does.

Except, isn't Black Sperm the poster boy for glass cannon? Considering how virtually every character thus far can damage him, even characters lower than him.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree with this CRT