Wow, another One Punch Man CRT.

[ByAsura]

Ok, then

This is what I was also saying in the discussion thread. It should be something like "Defeated Tanktop Master after he stopped holding back".

That's fine. I don't take it personally if it seemed I was with that "last thread" comment. I was just saying it's an assumption to begin with.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I updated the Garou sandbox for his human key.

 

[ByAsura]

Sorry, but the comma after "After defeating" is giving me conniptions.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

done

 

[Antvasima]

ByAsura seems to make sense above.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why?

Because he needs more stuff for that rating. Ruining HE's plan doesn't translate to 6-C without some more stuff to it in my view.

 

[Ourosboros]

I agree with the minor additions except for...

• Black Sperm being "varies, normally 7-B", I think that's misleading because most clones are far weaker than our other 7-Bs. I would say Black Sperm's peak is 7-B, not his average. If anything the 'average' Black Sperm is like High 7-C, since the 10,000 detached squad was hurting base Metal Bat.

Disagree with the CSRC changes, stone can scorch but if you're destroying with a heat-based method you'll be melting or vaporizing the stone at the end of the day. We could add a vaporization end to CSRC if we think that's a better description of how Boros would be destroying the crust- the ocean vape calc is a bit too much of a lowball since ocean vaporization is only a part of destroying the crust.

For the downgrades,

• I think that Vaccine Man should just be low 7-B physically. Yes he is only shown tanking a 7-C blast, but he took no damage from it and there's nothing to suggest he doesn't have at least low dragon durability.
• Agree with watchdog man downgrade.
• Neutral on the Suiryu downgrade.
• Disagree on using Genos as a reliable source for Gouketsu powerscaling, G4 Genos was too far removed from mid-high dragons in strength to accurately gauge their power. We can remove the possibly 7-A+ from Carnage Kabuto and Darkshine, but I wouldn't support doing it on a statement from an unreliable source
• Rover's durability is what makes Rover impressive, I don't put much stock into his AP. Fubuki thought Bang and Bomb were near her level when she made that statement about them taking heavy damage, which was proved wrong when they countered and slapped Rover back. Bang was surprised he was unscathed after Rover and was dusting himself off, that could mean he expected to be harmed or he was expecting to get his clothes burnt. It is not proof he would take any serious damage from Rover. I would rather just scale Rover's AP above post-royal Ripper Garou's durability. Therefore, there is no conundrum with Rover's AP and scaling chains.
• Agree on removing 7-A+ for all those people. If we have Orochi, Homeless and Golden Sperm clearly being on/above Gouketsu's level then I'm all for removing the possiblys since we can see who Gouketsu was talking about now.

• Agree on scaling Awakened Breath Bang and Garou to possibly 7-A+. If Bomb thought fighting evenly with Awakened Breath Bang was crazy, then it's not a reach to say that version of Bang is on a whole another level and resolve the scaling dilemmas in the process.
• Agree on city level ultra spiral incineration cannon, city level self-destruct for Post Elder-Centipede Genos and higher with self-destruct for Genos in general.
• Disagree with scaling G-4 Genos to at least high 7-C, there's no way G-4 Genos is above 1 megaton at full power with what we know about Post Superfight Genos.

Upgrades

• Agree with scaling Golden Sperm, Base Orochi and armored Boros to Homeless Emperor. It would be nice to get supporting feats for Golden Sperm, but I agree that it doesn't make sense for Homeless to change course and get upset over the creation of Golden Sperm if Golden Sperm couldn't pose issues for Homeless.
• Agree with the city level changes for the most part. Personally I don't think base post-EC Genos, base Gyoro Gyoro, peak Black Sperm and Gums are all considerably superior to EC.
• The new Garou page looks great

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think that Vaccine Man should just be low 7-B physically. Yes he is only shown tanking a 7-C blast, but he took no damage from it and there's nothing to suggest he doesn't have at least low dragon durability.

Neutral towards this

Agree with watchdog man downgrade

Considering Human Garou is just Low 7-B now, I think Watchdog Man can keep the At least

Disagree on using Genos as a reliable source for Gouketsu powerscaling, G4 Genos was too far removed from mid-high dragons in strength to accurately gauge their power. We can remove the possibly 7-A+ from Carnage Kabuto and Darkshine, but I wouldn't support doing it on a statement from an unreliable source

Geno's isn't the only character for Gouketsu powerscaling. It's also involved with other implications that there are some just as strong as him.

Agree on removing 7-A+ for all those people. If we have Orochi, Homeless and Golden Sperm clearly being on/above Gouketsu's level then I'm all for removing the possiblys since we can see who Gouketsu was talking about now

Orochi and HE are clearly above Gouketsu now, there really isnt anything to justify Golden Sperm scaling to Gouketsu now tho

Disagree with scaling G-4 Genos to at least high 7-C, there's no way G-4 Genos is above 1 megaton at full power with what we know about Post Superfight Genos.

You do know that they don't need that in order to justify At least. All they need to deserve the rating is to massively scale above the High 7-C rating

The new Garou page looks great

:]

 

[Ourosboros]

Neutral towards this

Considering Human Garou is just Low 7-B now, I think Watchdog Man can keep the At least

Geno's isn't the only character for Gouketsu powerscaling. It's also involved with other implications that there are some just as strong as him.

Orochi and HE are clearly above Gouketsu now, there really isnt anything to justify Golden Sperm scaling to Gouketsu now tho

You do know that they don't need that in order to justify At least. All they need to deserve the rating is to massively scale above the High 7-C rating

:]

Vaccine Man being physically weaker than BoS Genos's blasts just doesn't sit right with me, especially because the manga emphasized his durability by tanking such a large explosion. It's not like he took damage from the 7-C blast either, so it wouldn't be inconsistent for him to have at least baseline dragon level durability.

If Garou is just Low 7-B, that would make sense. I personally prefer simple tierings where we have a very solid idea of where most characters' AP scales. If we could just have Low 7-Bs, then Low 7-B+s and then 7-Bs, that would be nice for vs matches too.

Sorry, I'm talking about scaling Carnage Kabuto below Gouketsu based on Genos's testimony. There's that one-approved statement where Gouketsu has multiple equals, I was one of the first people to bring that up. I'm just saying that if there's a chance CK =~ Gouketsu for whatever reason, we shouldn't rely on Genos to disqualify that since he's an unreliable narrator here without the means to distinguish between "low-high" or "high-high" dragons, that is to say people around Gouketsu's level.

I stand by the logic of Golden Sperm ruining Homeless Emperor's plans, but since I think he'll get clearer scaling evidence I will hold off on that for now. Still hoping for some statements about GS's power or a massive feat.

I know we don't need it, but I personally don't like having half the verse in a grey category where they might be in multiple tiers and we say we can't be sure. I understand some characters are ambiguous, but I think that most characters in the "at least 7-B" tier are probably just 7-Bs, since they only upscale once or twice from EC, if they should really be upscaling at all. If Psykosjet didn't exist or didn't scale to full power Psykos this scaling would be nice. I don't think that post EC Genos, Gums, peak Black Sperm and Nyan are even necessarily above EC, but Psykosjet scaling makes it so.



I also think we should upgrade Iaian and Spring Mustachio at this point. Since coming on to the surface, Iaian has contended with three dragon level threats, deflecting some ENW streams, keeping pace with an army of Black Sperm and even deflecting Homeless's blast. I will calc something for him later but might I suggest scaling Iaian and Spring to High 7-C (base metal bat), since that relatively small detached BS force was able to harm base Metal Bat and get him pumped up?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

If Garou is just Low 7-B, that would make sense. I personally prefer simple tierings where we have a very solid idea of where most characters' AP scales. If we could just have Low 7-Bs, then Low 7-B+s and then 7-Bs, that would be nice for vs matches too.

Pretty much everyone who scales to the High 7-C+ thing becomes Low 7-B. And tbh, I dunno if human Garou really deserves an "At least" for stomping a baseline Low 7-B but I'll let others decide.

Sorry, I'm talking about scaling Carnage Kabuto below Gouketsu based on Genos's testimony. There's that one-approved statement where Gouketsu has multiple equals, I was one of the first people to bring that up. I'm just saying that if there's a chance CK =~ Gouketsu for whatever reason, we shouldn't rely on Genos to disqualify that since he's an unreliable narrator here without the means to distinguish between "low-high" or "high-high" dragons, that is to say people around Gouketsu's level.

TBF, Genos actually saw the true power of CK against Saitama, as CK was going absolutely all out. In this case, I think we can take the statement of Gouketsu > CK as reliable.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Because he needs more stuff for that rating. Ruining HE's plan doesn't translate to 6-C without some more stuff to it in my view.

Except HE's plan was to wait for Black Sperm to be weakened so that he can easily wipe him out. The existence of Golden Sperm destroyed that plan

 

[Ourosboros]

Pretty much everyone who scales to the High 7-C+ thing becomes Low 7-B. And tbh, I dunno if human Garou really deserves an "At least" for stomping a baseline Low 7-B but I'll let others decide.


TBF, Genos actually saw the true power of CK against Saitama, as CK was going absolutely all out. In this case, I think we can take the statement of Gouketsu > CK as reliable.

Okay, I guess that's alright. Dragons being at least Low 7-B is necessary by our rules, but it was neat when we could just scale baseline dragons to Low 7-B+ and mid dragons to 7-B.

Genos did see his full power, but how well was he able to understand it? Carnage Kabuto was at least a dozen times stronger than Genos at that point, potentially far more, would Genos be able to accurately judge his power with such a glance? I feel like he was overrating Gouketsu since Gouketsu just crushed him into the ground, you're more likely to overrate the guy who just kicked your butt than the guy who you saw fighting on the sidelines (Genos fought base CK, who is unquantifiably weaker than Carnage Mode Kabuto)

Would you be willing to give Vaccine Man "at least low 7-B" physical stats by being a dragon? There's no anti-feats for it, just him no-selling a mid/high demon attack.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Would you be willing to give Vaccine Man "at least low 7-B" physical stats by being a dragon? There's no anti-feats for it, just him no-selling a mid/high demon attack.

This I really I don't know anymore. It's something that the others should decide

I also think we should upgrade Iaian and Spring Mustachio at this point. Since coming on to the surface, Iaian has contended with three dragon level threats, deflecting some ENW streams, keeping pace with an army of Black Sperm and even deflecting Homeless's blast. I will calc something for him later but might I suggest scaling Iaian and Spring to High 7-C (base metal bat), since that relatively small detached BS force was able to harm base Metal Bat and get him pumped up?

I should note that no one should scale to the full power of HE's extreme carpet bombing, as the feat was made multiple bombs thrown all at once, and the characters were only deflecting one at a time. I don't think Iaian nor spring mustachio should scale to Black Sperm as he's a glass cannon, plus the fact I don't remember Iaian nor spring ever tanking attacks from Black Sperm or matching Black Sperm in AP

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not against Vaccine Man being something like 'Likely 7-B' personally. I have to disagree with Low 7-B, though, because ratings are based entirely on destructive potential, and VM was spamming blasts.

Genos did see his full power, but how well was he able to understand it? Carnage Kabuto was at least a dozen times stronger than Genos at that point, potentially far more, would Genos be able to accurately judge his power with such a glance? I feel like he was overrating Gouketsu since Gouketsu just crushed him into the ground, you're more likely to overrate the guy who just kicked your butt than the guy who you saw fighting on the sidelines (Genos fought base CK, who is unquantifiably weaker than Carnage Mode Kabuto)

The audiobooks strongly suggest he did, and there's no indication that his measurements for CK were the least bit inaccurate. But I think your point about Genos overrating Gouketsu has at least some validity given how he said Saitama, whom he'd witnessed obliterating the meteor and taking down Boros' ship, would need assistance from S-Class heroes.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Would human Garou deserve At least Low 7-B or just regular Low 7-B?

 

[ByAsura]

That depends. Does Metal Bat's durability also increase when pumped up?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That depends. Does Metal Bat's durability also increase when pumped up?

I presume so, but I don't think his AP is really on par with his durability. But I was mainly asking because he easily stomped TTM and implied he'd do better against Genos at his peak

 

[ByAsura]

IMO, regular Low 7-B or at least High 7-C+ works better because Metal Bat was capable of withstanding hits from EC with moderate damage before being pumped.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

at least High 7-C+

Why this? And I don't remember MB tanking hits from EC

Also I don't know if I'd really say Metal Bat to be on par with Garou. Garou claimed Metal Bat could do some serious damage to the former if Metal Bat had hit him, yet Garou was consistently harming MB just fine. And trying to scale Human Garou to 7-B is ridiculous

 

[ByAsura]

Sorry, I mean Senior Centipede.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Ah, but I think SC should just scale above MB's base which is At least High 7-C, considering High 7-C+ is no more

 

[ByAsura]

Was the Spiral Incineration Cannon calc debunked? SC's durability comes from Murata's statement.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Was the Spiral Incineration Cannon calc debunked? SC's durability comes from Murata's statement.

I'm pretty it was never. Plus, I don't see why the SIC should be much lower than Genos' Low 7-B

 

[ByAsura]

The SIC was calced as High 7-C+.

I thought we agreed to keep the JDA separate to his physicals. What's happening here?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The SIC was calced as High 7-C+.

I thought we agreed to keep the JDA separate to his physicals. What's happening here?

We have his JDA as physicals. It's on Genos' profile. If you're wondering, this CRT never really had any of it's proposal applied. Although I myself am unsure what's going in there.

But the idea for Genos' durability scaling to JDA is because JDA is a physical attack and Genos was able to withstand the force of JDA. Plus the fact majority of Genos' attacks are often placed on par with his physicals

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

 

[Kin201]

I agree that we should not scale Genos' regular strikes to his JDA. The fight between Metal Bat and Garou was also weird to me. Metat Bat's durability scales to his AP and he one-shot SC. Garou later fought him and heavily injured him. However; I'm quite sure that SC is much more durable than Human Garou. It also has a statement from Murata implying it can tank Genos's upgraded attacks which include Spiral Incineration Cannon.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree that we should not scale Genos' regular strikes to his JDA.

You're reasoning pls.

Metat Bat's durability scales to his AP and he one-shot SC. Garou later fought him and heavily injured him. However; I'm quite sure that SC is much more durable than Human Garou.

After MB killed SC, Metal Bat was able to stop an incoming EC, and from I've been told, that is an AP feat. It doesn't make sense if we start scaling Garou to 7-B, when we know he's very much lower than that. And the fact Garou states MB's attacks to being able to do great damage to him, while Garou could casually harm MB

Garou was also fighting an MB that was stronger than the MB who fough SC

 

[ImposingTiger]

Genos is later ripped apart by BS clones that weren't capable of really damaging Metal Bat, who is objectively inferior to Elder Centipede and not even at the level he used to one-shot SC.

Why do you assume that BS clone was weaker than MB's clones? They vary after all.


About the Metal Bat scaling, I think it is:

Human Garou's durability < Spiral Incineration Cannon = Senior Centipede's durability < Pumped Up Metal Bat < More Amped Metal Bat.

The reason Garou could harm Metal Bat (even if we assume he did not break those bones, his hits are doing damage and causing blood loss) is because Metal Bat is a glass cannon and we should treat him as such. When Garou redirects his attacks back at him, he gets instantly one shoted so there is no reason his dura should scale to his strikes. Plus, he is somewhat damaged by BS clones and he instantly vaporizes them a second later.

 

[ByAsura]

@Emirp That's actually not true. Metal Bat didn't stop EC, EC just dodged sideways to stop MB from hitting his face. Plus, EC charged with his back on the ground and his head hoisted in the air, so MB would only scale to part of his full body's momentum.

@Imposing They were divided to the same level in this chapter.

 

[Kin201]

Well, because his regular strikes aren't anywhere near as strong as the JDA. It even managed to break through a teeth from EC. A regular punch or kick from Genos can't even dream of breaking through that teeth.

MB would've won if he managed to land a hit on Garou, and Garou still fully scaled to him despite he could be one-shot if he got hit once. That's why I said the fight was weird.

MB did take a hit from EC that sent him crashing into a building. EC also sliced Genos in half. The statement from Murata implying SC can tank Genos' upgraded attacks which include Spiral Incineration Cannon creates problems.

Edit: I forgot that EC actually sliced Genos after molting.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't necessarily disagree with your logic, but that hit Metal Bat took was extremely casual and from just a single mandible. This was also pre-molt, whereas the Genos thing was post-molt.

 

[ImposingTiger]

About the CRT, I agree with everything expect with this:

- Psykorochi's physicals should be placed at "At least High 6-C" instead of Unknown as Psykorochi should be superior to Orochi in physical AP

I believe it should remain as "unknown" because it is stated to be a hollow body and I don't see a reason why we can scale her to Orochi's physicals.

- Vaccine Man should have his physicals downgraded as it has been confirmed that his energy spheres do not come from himself but from an external source, similar to Homeless Emperor. His new rating should be "Unknown, City level with energy spheres". He should receive 7-C for his durability we see him tank this.

His Transformed key should have his physicals scaled to the 7-B calc because the databook page implies he gets much more powerful than his previous form without even mentioning energy spheres.

Anyway, great job as always.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I believe it should remain as "unknown" because it is stated to be a hollow body and I don't see a reason why we can scale her to Orochi's physicals.

Because she is Orochi + Psykos + God bless merged

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I believe it should remain as "unknown" because it is stated to be a hollow body and I don't see a reason why we can scale her to Orochi's physicals.

I think that only applies to her Psykos top. I'm pretty sure the Orochi sections should be High 6-C

 

[ImposingTiger]

Because she is Orochi + Psykos + God bless merged

If the composition of the body changes it doesn't mean it gets stronger. For all we know she could have grown stronger only becuase of psychic powers and energy.

But yes, I agree it should be more logical to scale her so that we don't have any trouble.

 

[Bernkastelll]

If the composition of the body changes it doesn't mean it gets stronger.

We have no way to assume that she becomes weaker than before, as she is literally Orochi merged with Psykos, which is the reason that still has all of his powers and her own psychic powers

 

[Kin201]

This part probably has ''High 6-C'' durability since it was Orochi's. I don't know about other parts of the fusion though.

 

[ByAsura]

Isn't it actually Orochi's heart?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Well, because his regular strikes aren't anywhere near as strong as the JDA. It even managed to break through a teeth from EC. A regular punch or kick from Genos can't even dream of breaking through that teeth.

At least 7-B, possibly 7-A JDA plus High 7-C+ Dragons