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So after we had a huge break from the loads of OPM CRTs that were happening earlier this year, thought I might as well make a comeback with these. We got some spicy changes coming up.
Minor additions:
- Elder Centipede should receive 2 keys: Pre-Molt and Post-Molt, as it became stronger and larger after molting when he was damaged by Bang and Bomb. More info on this will be placed later on.
- Bang's and Orochi's "Higher with WSRSF" as this nly has been shown to apply to Garou
- TankTop Master has no reason for him to have his second key, as it was a temporary amp that appeared for only one chapter.
- Psykorochi's physicals should be placed at "At least High 6-C" instead of Unknown as Psykorochi should be superior to Orochi in physical AP.
- Black sperm should be arranged to something like this: Varies (The power of an individual Black Sperm depends on its cell count, with smaller clones proving largely ineffective against the Hero Association), up to at least City level (Tore off Genos' arm, a feat that even Gums could not accomplish, while larger mergers with much greater sense of community have severely injured Atomic Samurai. Psykos implied that Homeless Emperor and Black Sperm working together could defeat Tatsumaki, who she believed was on the level of Pre-Molt Elder Centipede at the time)
- Black Sperm should receive a new key in the form of Golden Sperm. Golden Sperm should have resistance to acid manipulation. He'll be 6-C for reasons explain later on in this thread
- Genos should receive a "Higher with Self destruction" in all his keys as he was confident in his self destruction being able to take out Mosquito Girl and a "City level with Self destruction" for his Post Elder Centipede key
- Bang should receive a new key for his awakening breath state. More details on this new key is listed below
Boros' CSRC (Again):
- So the current CSRC calc uses melting as a method for it's result, under the pretense that Boros' attacks are all heat based and that they look like melting, as well as the databook stating his attacks would "scorch" the earth. Credit to @Qawsedf234 for this translation:
Until I learned in the main OPM thread that scorching and melting are not synonymous with one another, and while Boros' attacks having heat based methods is true as we see above, his "heat based" attacks don't really look a lot like melting and more like scorching or burning something, it's more lik they just cause explosions that primarily cause kinetic damage.. And really, melting is only shown very clearly in the anime adaptation. So this means that melting for the manga is not a usable option.
Luckily for us, @Epiccheev found this calc, which has it's result of scorching the surface of the Earth, which is the low end, as 1 Exaton, which is a pretty miniscule downgrade. This calc is more preferable as it is closer to what we see Boros' attacks being than melting. So only tiny downgrade but CSRC still remains in the exatons
Downgrades:
- Vaccine Man should have his physicals downgraded as it has been confirmed that his energy spheres do not come from himself but from an external source, similar to Homeless Emperor. His new rating should be "Unknown, City level with energy spheres". He should receive 7-C for his durability we see him tank this.
- Watchdog Man's "At least Low 7-B" rating is kind of a stretch as I don't think he's strong enough to upscale. He should just be Low 7-B from stomping High 7-C+ human Garou
- Suiryu should not scale to Bakuzan in AP as his feat of breaking Bakuzan's toe is clearly PIS, as it does not make snse for him to be unale to fight and harm Bakuzan even at his peak, and the fact we see him fight on par with someone like Choze, who is weaker than Bakuzan, as indication that Bakuzan is the only character listed as a threat level dragon while Choze is given no rating. Instead, both of them should scale to this feat, which is Low 7-C
Possibly 7-A+ Removal:
Also while revising the scaling chain, I noticed something odd. Mainly about Carnage Kabuto, Rover and Darkshine
I'll tackle CK first. So this is Carnage Kabuto's scaling chain:
So as shown, Carnage Kabuto scales above Gouketsu. But here's the problem, we list CK as inferior to Gouketsu off of the basis that a Gouketsu who was barely trying against Genos, and Genos stated that Gouketsu was by far the strongest monster he had seen by that point, and he has only seen a fraction of Gouketsu's power, but has seen Carnage Kabuto's full power in the past several times.
So by Genos' statement. Gouketsu is stronger than Carnage Kabuto. Which does line up with the evidence. But the scaling chain kinda says otherwise. I dunno what to do here, I'll leave this one up to ya'll
And for Darkshine and Rover. Ya'll remember the scaling chain I placed above? I realized placing bang and bomb does contradict quite some things.
So Base Bang and Bomb being superior to Darkshine would mean that Rover is much stronger than Darkshine. Which also leads to the inital Half monster Garou durability to exceed Darkshine's which makes no sense considering we see how easy Darkshine rekt Half monster Garou when they first fought, and Garou only gets stronger from then on. And do you all see what I mean?
Base Bang and Bomb being superior to darkshine in AP or durability doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and only creates scaling contradictions and circular scaling, which leads to greater confusion.
This can all be easily cleaned up: Only Post Molt Elder Centipede should scale to possibly 7-A+
This is mainly due to the fact that Post Molt EC is the one that Genos fought and vaguely describes as more powerful than Gouketsu. So with that in mind. Only those who scale to Post Molt EC, shall receive Possibly 7-A, that being:
Courtesy of @ImposingTiger, the current scale above would like this FYI:
Elder Centipede post molting > Gouketsu > CK = Darkshine's AP > Garou's durability against Darkshine initially >= Garou's durability against Rover <= Rover's AP > Base Bang/Bomb > Elder Centipede pre molt
Upgrades:
Now for some good things, shall we?
- G4 Genos and all those who scale to him should be "At least High 7-C" as I believe G4 Genos should receive the At least in his key due to massively upscaling from his previous form as we know in the audiobook. Genos was able to stomp both Hydrated Deep Sea King, who in his dehydrated state could contend with Arms Mode Genos, who should be stronger than his base self, which is High 7-C, as well as Mosquito Girl, who could contend with him in his base and even stomp his base after she drank enough blood.
- Gyoro Gyoro received a Class T calc. All those who scale above him shall scale to Class T
- Amai Mask should be changed to "Possibly At least High 7-C". In Chapter 45, Fubuki states that she can’t reach Sweet Mask’s power, however, she can and did in later arcs, but the most important quote is she saying Saitama can’t win against him. While it’s clear that she’s wrong, said statement came from what she knows about Saitama, and that is: He can defeat Sonic, who was around comparable to Genos. Fubuki always showed to be quite well versed on the heroes, and her “goal” is always being #1, and she doesn’t even try to go to the A Class because she knows to some extent what Sweet Mask is able to do (She also knows a lot about Blast, for example, so her being knowledgeable on the heroes is consistent).
Not only this, but Amai Mask is usually confident in taking on S-Class level characters. He felt confident enough to mock Atomic Samurai, as well as Flashy Flash. Granted, I don't he should be listed as Possibly 7-B as these are just mocks. And Amai Mask is a very arrogant and overconfident character, but it should be taken into account at the very least.
- Homeless Emperor should have his rating change to "Unknown physically. Varies, up to Island level with spheres". People who scale to him will be:
- Elder Centipede and all those who scaled to him shall be "City level" via the previously linked calc. Not only that, but the hero association list EC as a natural disaster here. Translation by @Qawsedf234 :
- Characters who should be listed as "At least City level" will be:
Garou page clean up:
So I created my own clean up page for Garou that better explains his stats and makes his profile tidier. Full credit goes to @Nullflowerblush for creating the entire Powers and Abilities section
- One of the main changes made is the first rating of Half-Monster Garou. Previously the previous rating had him at threat level dragon due to being it being stated he was threat level dragon. However this is contradicted by him being able to be harmed by Royal Ripper. This wouldn't be so bad at first when we placed Garou as stone wall at the time because he survived and downscales from attacks from Overgrown Rover, making him "City level" in durability. Take note this scales only for his durability as at that point he has shown no feats of being able to harm those who can harm him. and Royal Ripper scaling to a dragon is obviously very ridiculous. All of this implies that in his first outing as a Half Monster and when he fought Roya Ripper again, he was still threat level demon, and only became threat level Dragon after becoming stronger. And we already know Garou grows stronger the more he fights.
- So because of this, some ratings do need to be slightly altered in their explanations:
Minor additions:
- Elder Centipede should receive 2 keys: Pre-Molt and Post-Molt, as it became stronger and larger after molting when he was damaged by Bang and Bomb. More info on this will be placed later on.
- Bang's and Orochi's "Higher with WSRSF" as this nly has been shown to apply to Garou
- TankTop Master has no reason for him to have his second key, as it was a temporary amp that appeared for only one chapter.
- Psykorochi's physicals should be placed at "At least High 6-C" instead of Unknown as Psykorochi should be superior to Orochi in physical AP.
- Black sperm should be arranged to something like this: Varies (The power of an individual Black Sperm depends on its cell count, with smaller clones proving largely ineffective against the Hero Association), up to at least City level (Tore off Genos' arm, a feat that even Gums could not accomplish, while larger mergers with much greater sense of community have severely injured Atomic Samurai. Psykos implied that Homeless Emperor and Black Sperm working together could defeat Tatsumaki, who she believed was on the level of Pre-Molt Elder Centipede at the time)
- Black Sperm should receive a new key in the form of Golden Sperm. Golden Sperm should have resistance to acid manipulation. He'll be 6-C for reasons explain later on in this thread
- Genos should receive a "Higher with Self destruction" in all his keys as he was confident in his self destruction being able to take out Mosquito Girl and a "City level with Self destruction" for his Post Elder Centipede key
- Bang should receive a new key for his awakening breath state. More details on this new key is listed below
Boros' CSRC (Again):
- So the current CSRC calc uses melting as a method for it's result, under the pretense that Boros' attacks are all heat based and that they look like melting, as well as the databook stating his attacks would "scorch" the earth. Credit to @Qawsedf234 for this translation:
and that I was informed that melting is the closest thing to scorching...
Until I learned in the main OPM thread that scorching and melting are not synonymous with one another, and while Boros' attacks having heat based methods is true as we see above, his "heat based" attacks don't really look a lot like melting and more like scorching or burning something, it's more lik they just cause explosions that primarily cause kinetic damage.. And really, melting is only shown very clearly in the anime adaptation. So this means that melting for the manga is not a usable option.
Luckily for us, @Epiccheev found this calc, which has it's result of scorching the surface of the Earth, which is the low end, as 1 Exaton, which is a pretty miniscule downgrade. This calc is more preferable as it is closer to what we see Boros' attacks being than melting. So only tiny downgrade but CSRC still remains in the exatons
Downgrades:
- Vaccine Man should have his physicals downgraded as it has been confirmed that his energy spheres do not come from himself but from an external source, similar to Homeless Emperor. His new rating should be "Unknown, City level with energy spheres". He should receive 7-C for his durability we see him tank this.
- Watchdog Man's "At least Low 7-B" rating is kind of a stretch as I don't think he's strong enough to upscale. He should just be Low 7-B from stomping High 7-C+ human Garou
- Suiryu should not scale to Bakuzan in AP as his feat of breaking Bakuzan's toe is clearly PIS, as it does not make snse for him to be unale to fight and harm Bakuzan even at his peak, and the fact we see him fight on par with someone like Choze, who is weaker than Bakuzan, as indication that Bakuzan is the only character listed as a threat level dragon while Choze is given no rating. Instead, both of them should scale to this feat, which is Low 7-C
Possibly 7-A+ Removal:
Also while revising the scaling chain, I noticed something odd. Mainly about Carnage Kabuto, Rover and Darkshine
I'll tackle CK first. So this is Carnage Kabuto's scaling chain:
So as shown, Carnage Kabuto scales above Gouketsu. But here's the problem, we list CK as inferior to Gouketsu off of the basis that a Gouketsu who was barely trying against Genos, and Genos stated that Gouketsu was by far the strongest monster he had seen by that point, and he has only seen a fraction of Gouketsu's power, but has seen Carnage Kabuto's full power in the past several times.
So by Genos' statement. Gouketsu is stronger than Carnage Kabuto. Which does line up with the evidence. But the scaling chain kinda says otherwise. I dunno what to do here, I'll leave this one up to ya'll
And for Darkshine and Rover. Ya'll remember the scaling chain I placed above? I realized placing bang and bomb does contradict quite some things.
So Base Bang and Bomb being superior to Darkshine would mean that Rover is much stronger than Darkshine. Which also leads to the inital Half monster Garou durability to exceed Darkshine's which makes no sense considering we see how easy Darkshine rekt Half monster Garou when they first fought, and Garou only gets stronger from then on. And do you all see what I mean?
Base Bang and Bomb being superior to darkshine in AP or durability doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and only creates scaling contradictions and circular scaling, which leads to greater confusion.
This can all be easily cleaned up: Only Post Molt Elder Centipede should scale to possibly 7-A+
This is mainly due to the fact that Post Molt EC is the one that Genos fought and vaguely describes as more powerful than Gouketsu. So with that in mind. Only those who scale to Post Molt EC, shall receive Possibly 7-A, that being:
- Post-Superfight Genos' Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon should be "At least City level, possibly Mountain level+" as he could significantly harm Elder Centipede but not completely. And before anyone asks, no, this should not scale to his base stats nor should his post elder centipede key as A. It's heavily contradictory to the scaling of things B. Base Post Superfight Genos isn't even the level of a threat level dragon at this time of the story and C. there is nothing to show that Post Elder centipede Genos' physicals scale to this Ultra Spiral incineration cannon.
- Bang's second key, his awakened breath mode, as he needed it to go against Post Molt EC
- Current Half Monster Garou, who can fight on par with Awakened breath bang
Courtesy of @ImposingTiger, the current scale above would like this FYI:
Elder Centipede post molting > Gouketsu > CK = Darkshine's AP > Garou's durability against Darkshine initially >= Garou's durability against Rover <= Rover's AP > Base Bang/Bomb > Elder Centipede pre molt
Upgrades:
Now for some good things, shall we?
- G4 Genos and all those who scale to him should be "At least High 7-C" as I believe G4 Genos should receive the At least in his key due to massively upscaling from his previous form as we know in the audiobook. Genos was able to stomp both Hydrated Deep Sea King, who in his dehydrated state could contend with Arms Mode Genos, who should be stronger than his base self, which is High 7-C, as well as Mosquito Girl, who could contend with him in his base and even stomp his base after she drank enough blood.
- Gyoro Gyoro received a Class T calc. All those who scale above him shall scale to Class T
- Amai Mask should be changed to "Possibly At least High 7-C". In Chapter 45, Fubuki states that she can’t reach Sweet Mask’s power, however, she can and did in later arcs, but the most important quote is she saying Saitama can’t win against him. While it’s clear that she’s wrong, said statement came from what she knows about Saitama, and that is: He can defeat Sonic, who was around comparable to Genos. Fubuki always showed to be quite well versed on the heroes, and her “goal” is always being #1, and she doesn’t even try to go to the A Class because she knows to some extent what Sweet Mask is able to do (She also knows a lot about Blast, for example, so her being knowledgeable on the heroes is consistent).
Not only this, but Amai Mask is usually confident in taking on S-Class level characters. He felt confident enough to mock Atomic Samurai, as well as Flashy Flash. Granted, I don't he should be listed as Possibly 7-B as these are just mocks. And Amai Mask is a very arrogant and overconfident character, but it should be taken into account at the very least.
- Homeless Emperor should have his rating change to "Unknown physically. Varies, up to Island level with spheres". People who scale to him will be:
- Golden Sperm (Homeless Emperor saw him as a threat, enough so for him to start getting involved)
- Base Orochi (Is the most powerful member of the Monster association)
- Armored Boros (As a Dragon or above, he should be more powerful than Homeless Emperor)
- Elder Centipede and all those who scaled to him shall be "City level" via the previously linked calc. Not only that, but the hero association list EC as a natural disaster here. Translation by @Qawsedf234 :
And being the first monster listed as a natural disaster, that likely places him above the likes of vaccine man, who is the most powerful the HA had encounter up to that point. I don't think it's definitve proof to say EC > Vaccine Man, but it does add as extra justification. So basically everyone who had previously a possibly 7-A will have their "At least Low 7-B, possibly 7-A" be turned to 7-B with some exceptions below.
- Characters who should be listed as "At least City level" will be:
- Post Molt Elder Centipede (Much stronger than his base. Forced Bang to use his awakened breath mode)
- Half-Monster Garou post Darkshine (Garou could harm Darkshine)
- Darkshine's AP and durability (Darkshine could harm Half monster Garou, who prior had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover and became stronger since then. Darkshine's durability immensely scales above himself) I'll go into more detail about the Garou scaling in a while.
- Overgrown Rover (likely going to heavily damage Bang and Bomb. Easily stomped an early Half-monster Garou)
- Gyoro Gyoro (Able to immobilize and harm Half-Monster Garou before he adapted to her telekinesis) I'll go into more detail about the Garou scaling in a while.
- Multi-eye Gyoro Gyoro (Believed that she was stronger than Tatsumaki - based on her knowledge of her at the time - who was one of the heroes that she said could contend with Elder Centipede)
- Peak Psykos (Scales above Multi-eye Gyoro Gyoro)
- Flashy Flash (Darkshine stated that he was one of the heroes that would’ve easily defeated Half-Monster Garou before he even showed off his skills, who prior before meeting Darkshine had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover) I'll go into more detail about the Garou scaling in a while.
- Atomic Samurai (Darkshine stated that he was one of the heroes that would’ve easily defeated Half-Monster Garou before he even showed off his skills, who prior before meeting Darkshine had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover) I'll go into more detail about the Garou scaling in a while.
- Black Sperm (Because he scales to Atomic Samurai)
- Post-Superfight Genos (Tanked a hit from Black Sperm. Can harm those who can harm him. His AP is superior to his dura)
- Psykojet (Scales to Genos)
- Drive Knight (Scales to Psykojet)
- Nyan (Scales to Drive Knight)
- Bomb and Bang (Both are stated to be equal to one another. Bomb was able to contend against Garou)
- Awakening breath Bang (Was able to stand a much better chance against Half monster Garou then Bomb)
- Gums (Could damage Post-Elder centipede Genos)
Garou page clean up:
So I created my own clean up page for Garou that better explains his stats and makes his profile tidier. Full credit goes to @Nullflowerblush for creating the entire Powers and Abilities section
- One of the main changes made is the first rating of Half-Monster Garou. Previously the previous rating had him at threat level dragon due to being it being stated he was threat level dragon. However this is contradicted by him being able to be harmed by Royal Ripper. This wouldn't be so bad at first when we placed Garou as stone wall at the time because he survived and downscales from attacks from Overgrown Rover, making him "City level" in durability. Take note this scales only for his durability as at that point he has shown no feats of being able to harm those who can harm him. and Royal Ripper scaling to a dragon is obviously very ridiculous. All of this implies that in his first outing as a Half Monster and when he fought Roya Ripper again, he was still threat level demon, and only became threat level Dragon after becoming stronger. And we already know Garou grows stronger the more he fights.
- So because of this, some ratings do need to be slightly altered in their explanations:
- Darkshine's AP and durability (Darkshine could harm Half monster Garou, who prior had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover and became stronger since then.. Darkshine's durability immensely scales above him and Bang's AP)
- Flashy Flash (Darkshine stated that he was one of the heroes that would’ve easily defeated Half-Monster Garou before he even showed off his skills, who prior before meeting Darkshine had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover)
- Atomic Samurai (Darkshine stated that he was one of the heroes that would’ve easily defeated Half-Monster Garou before he even showed off his skills, who prior before meeting Darkshine had survived attacks from Overgrown Rover)
- Gyoro Gyoro (Able to immobilize and harm Half-Monster Garou before he adapted to her telekinesis) I'll give more input on this specific one in a while
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