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Wohoo, slow down babe, another DMC speed revision

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Tony_di_bugalu

Tony_di_bugalu

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Like someone said, the word outlier will come into play a lot here but hear me out first.

In DMC 3 there is an enemy called the Damned Rook which attacks with a laser only, and before all come down saying they are not real lasers, welp, as per sugestion of someoneI made a thread to discuss if it fits the criteria for real lasers / light speed stuff and it got accepted by two calc members who have knowledge on that jazz and one discussion mod.

An with that a calc got evaluated and accepted.

Proposed changes:

  • DMC3 Dante post Awakaning gets a "At least Relativistic+, likely FTL" upgrade as reaction and combat speeds as he is the one with the dodging feat.
  • DMC3 Vergil scales to him as he is able to fight on par with Dante and contributed to defeat Arkham.
  • DMC1 Dante scales as he is superior to his DMC3 self
  • Nelo Angelo scales as he defeated DMC1 Dante on their first fight
  • Nightmare scales , he is the strongest demon created by Mundus and gave Dante some trouble during the last fight
Why isn't this an outlier?:

To quote the maker of the blog:

"This isn't an outlier. Maddening, I know. Especially since we have DT Dante rated at At Least 4x FTL, Likely 813x FTL.

Except, we have no idea what Dante's speed is, truthfully speaking. We scale Dante in all games to people he fodderizes, and DMC3 is no exception. He effortlessly dodges lightning and blitzes people who do the same."

Basically, all of the MHS+ characters scale to fodder enemies for a lack of better feats , most of them are defeated casually and/or are not at the same level as Dante and their feats aren't even something that can be calc'ed.

With this only those that are on Dante's level scale to his reaction speed.

There are some other feats, such as Dante casually reacting to a laser made by Mundus while the latter was casually seated on his throne thinking Dante was fodder.
 
To summarize my thoughts on the matter:

DMC1's FTL/MFTL feat is a bit janky. We fundamentally do not know the distance Mundus and Dante covered with their leap, and we had to assume the bare minimums for both ends, just the bare minimums in two different ways.

So for all we know, Danate and Mundus could have been in an entirely different galaxy when they leapt to the planet the fought on. But at the very least, they had to be far enough away that the planet's star would have appeared indistinguishable from background stars, and that the planet would also be invisible. Additionally, we know they made the leap in a set timeframe, meaning the MFTL end needs to be recalced.

The issue with the previous calc is unknown distance, and we assumed the safest possible distances thusly. But with this calc, there is no unknowns. The laser was accepted as real light, and we know everything we need to make a reliable calc. Distance, time, everything.

With the Mundus Leap calc, we don't know one key factor: distance. We know time, but that's only half of the speed calc. For all we know, they were in deep intergalactic space, or the opposite end of the visible universe, or across the actual universe. We fundamentally do not know.

So I do support this calc.
 
As I said before, we do know the distance, the Planet wasn't visible, there is a minimum distance for that, there is a calc for that

The only assumption is the SIZE of the Planet, since the distance changes with this, it was used Earth, which is a Low Ball if you take the average size for one

Dunno about the MFTL, but the FTL version is perfecly fine

So God Tiers should be just FTL via that feat, while the rest of Dante's keys and who scale will have their Reactions and Combat speed at "Relativistic+ to FTL"

I support the calc and the upgrades, however a "likely" for Nightmare might be better
 
Similarly, the star was also indistinguishable from background stars, and we know that the planet would have likely been in orbit around a star due to the fact that it was geothermically and atmospherically active, which wouldn't happen in a rogue rocky planet.

Were it a rogue rocky planet, it would be cold, ice covered, and dead.

So basically, we end up in the same position. The planet can't be seen, but neither can the star, and thusly, we made two ends, one high and low.
 
The MFTL takes the distance between Pluto's Aphelion and Venus, because it is the Planet that look more like the one that Dante and Mundus arrived, am I right ?

Well, the only problem is assuming Venus as the distance, since, as you said, they are in deep space not on our Star System. But I don't problems with the calc, I think it's fair for a High End

The FTL one should scale to Dante's 3-A keys, with DMC5 cast at "At least FTL". If, of course, the MFTL is invalid
 
Given the laser was accepted and the calc was evaluated and accepted I'm fine with revision.

I was about to bring up the Outlier argument but the OP already brought that up. Note that I'm not to familiar with the older Devil May Cry games but from what I can recall there isn't anything that I remember that contradicts this. So yeah, I agree with this.
 
I agree.

I want to point out that we still have the declaration of dmc5 that artemis (the devil arm artemis + lady) attacks with pure light, so it is possible the fact that vergil can dodge the attacks of devil arm artemis in dmc3

What do you think as support?
 
Sounds fine to me. Though I do wonder if we ever did get Nevan's lightning speed calced considering Dante can react to the lightning strikes.
 
What about the combo where Dante summons lighting all around him with Nevan, wouldn't that count?
 
I don't think so. I don't think it could be calc'd either because Dante isn't dodging anything, unless there was some way to get a demon to dodge it right as Dante does the move and it was on video.
 
@Diemonite that lightning combo is done from Nevan, who's literally the demon lady you fight. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say you can scale that lightning calc to her since it is from her body.
 
You do have someone who dodges the lightning. The man who defeated Nevan in the first place. Unless her speed fluctuates greatly from Demon to Devil Arm, I'm pretty sure it would be the same speed all around.
 
Yeah, but that was taken as baseline MHS because the one attack that lines up with real lightning is uncalcable.
 
I mean, if Nevan's attacks are real lightning, then we can take any video with Dante dodging it or blocking it

Thing is, I don't think it will be higher than MHS+
 
It seems to be fine, so I agree. I only have doubts regarding Nigthmare, so I will remain a little neutral with this and wait to see how it ends, but for everything else if it seems correct.
 
But it gave him more trouble than the likes of Griffon, Phantom and should be at the very least comparable to Nelo Angelo
 
Nelo Angelo actually defeated Dante by himself and was stated to be his equal by official guides

Nightmare had Trish to help and yet was defeated and Dante didn't seem to have much trouble

A "likely" might be better
 
Nelo only defeated him on their first encounter, in the second one Dante won without trouble and the third one was when Nelo released all the power he had yet he got soloed.

Nightmare on the other hand was enough of a threat to keep Dante focused on him, which led to Trish being able to back stab him.
 
Nelo was stated to be equal to Dante, Tony, he have one victory for him, while Nightmare with help didn't

The difference can be the DAs, since Dante had the Devil Sword Sparda when he fought Nightmare in the last time, however he also fought it without it
 
Tony makes a good point, Dante fought Nightmare twice after he defeated Nelo Angelo though Nightmare did have help in the last fight and Dante had the SoS although it wasn't active I believe. I say he would scale or at least be comparable.
 
The thing is, we see in the game he got solo'd twice by Dante so he can't be his equal, it's the same as DMC3 Vergil and Dante being equals but Dante solo's him at the end with no effort.

A statement that contradicts the game is iffy, you know the rest.

And I concede, Nightmare doesn't scale, lemme take it out of the OP
 
well i think i can get behind this. For one as pointed out the low ball was fodder enemy's feats which well...as fodder so Dante would have to be WAY stronger than them to rekt them without effort so if the calc is fine I think it should work wit the ppl that actually scale to him
 
I think the guidebook statement had more to it than them being equals I believe. I think it said Nelo had an advatange over Dante in some department I forgot and Dante had advantage in over Nelo in another.
 
I have the manual and to my knowledge it never said something about them being equals, just how Nelo is quite surprising for someone from the underworld since he has honor

Lemme see if I can find the guidebook
 
I agree with Dante on a "likely" or remove it from the list, since at least for me it would not be crazy to think that in the last battle against Nightmare and Trish, Dante had more problems due to the fact that it was a trap where they reduced the size of the battlefield, literally enclosing Dante and Nightmare in a small área while Trish attacked from outside.
 
You don't need to bump every 3 hours. Just call Rebuble and some other staff over to OK this
 
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