Wind spirit vs fish (Black Clover vs One piece)

[KingTempest]

Yuno and other average magic knights can casually resist yultim volcano's passive heat that can turn humans to ashes with only mana skin, yuno's mana skin is much stronger than the average magic knights' and mana zone is >>> mana skin.

A plasma torch requires a significant timeframe to vaporize steel and they're only 40,000° F, Akainu vaporized steel instantly that was even further away from him than Luffy was. Kaido scales to that.
This is base almost dead Luffy without Haki. Kaido produced smoke from an amped Luffy with Haki resistances and dura on top of it. Making it much hotter than a plasma torch, or much higher than 40,000° F.

Turning a human to ash via cremation requires 1800° F. Kaido is over 20x hotter.

Kaido is slower than yuno.

Not even 1.5x faster and Kaido can amp his speed but I need to CRT that to get it accepted and there's a current CRT going on so please ignore that, damn it, and I'm referring to the stupid precognition of Kenbunshoku Haki which allows characters to react to and dodge abilities dozens of times faster

 

[KingTempest]

Ahh ok

this seems like a stomp imo Yuno has a 100 TT move, faster and sensing that’s on par with Kaido if not better.

Woah, sensing on par w/ Kenbun? That's a stretch

The only win con I can think of is Kaido out ranging Yuno and spamming. But then Yuno could still avoid those due to being faster and having good senses

Kenbun prediction aiming, targeting where they'll be instead of where they are. Look at Luffy vs Katakuri.

 

[joshpiece]

Woah, sensing on par w/ Kenbun? That's a stretch

Well isn’t that the argument BC supporters are making? I don’t know BC scaling like that so I’m just taking their word for it.

Kenbun prediction aiming, targeting where they'll be instead of where they are. Look at Luffy vs Katakuri.

Still with his senses and being faster couldn’t he just dodge all of them?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

A plasma torch requires a significant timeframe to vaporize steel and they're only 40,000° F, Akainu vaporized steel instantly that was even further away from him than Luffy was. Kaido scales to that.
This is base almost dead Luffy without Haki. Kaido produced smoke from an amped Luffy with Haki resistances and dura on top of it. Making it much hotter than a plasma torch, or much higher than 40,000° F.

Turning a human to ash via cremation requires 1800° F. Kaido is over 20x hotter.

oof, well I guess yuno can dodge with spirit's hushed dance that has analytical prediction and speed advantage.

Not even 1.5x faster and Kaido can amp his speed but I need to CRT that to get it accepted and there's a current CRT going on so please ignore that, damn it, and I'm referring to the stupid precognition of Kenbunshoku Haki which allows characters to react to and dodge abilities dozens of times faster

Yuno may actually be 2x faster than his value, because they scale base asta to 2x the relativistic feat, and base tuno would scale to that, but spirit dive is treated as 2x, so he may actually be 2x faster plus he has his own analytical prediction.

 

[KingTempest]

Well isn’t that the argument BC supporters are making? I don’t know BC scaling like that so I’m just taking their word for it.

Yuno just senses the flow of magic and such.

In all actuality, would Kaido be able to be sensed? It's an inverse limitation to mages against people without magic (Asta).

Still with his senses and being faster couldn’t he just dodge all of them?

Senses are ehh now because of above, he could dodge them but Kaido out staminas

 

[KingTempest]

oof, well I guess yuno can dodge with spirit's hushed dance that has analytical prediction and speed advantage.

Fair point

Yuno may actually be 2x faster than his value, because they scale base asta to 2x the relativistic feat, and base tuno would scale to that, but spirit dive is treated as 2x, so he may actually be 2x faster plus he has his own analytical prediction.

Goddamn wth

Well, we had average humans reacting to lightning w/ kenbun and MHS+ characters reacting to SoL attacks with Kenbun. A 2-3 speed advantage shouldn't be that bad

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Who has the better sensing is debatable, I say kaido easily, but yuno is not far off, Kaido has extrasensory perception, intention sensing, instinctive reaction kinda, plus pregonition, yuno is very similar, extrasensory perception like kaido's, instinctive reaction but not really that great, same with kaido not really that amazing application, he also has analytical prediction but kaido's is better.

In all actuality, would Kaido be able to be sensed? It's an inverse limitation to mages against people without magic (Asta).

I think verse equalization should make it so yuno can sense kaido. I think asta is a special case since he lacks an aura completely but one piece characters do.

 

[KingTempest]

That's a good point.

I'll suppress the inner OP fan in me that wants Kaido to win this by any means necessary. I might have to vote incon, leaning towards Yuno.

Kaido has far superior stamina, as he fought Linlin for a timeframe between 1 to 3 days, scales far above Ace who fought Jinbe for 5 days straight, scales to Linlin who scales to Marco who scales to the admirals who fought for 10 days straight, his stamina is better. His main technique that can hit him and cause lasting damage can be dodged.

Yuno's faster, stronger, more versatile with wind, etc.

Until I see more arguments, incon

 

[Loyd]

From what i know of black clover kaido sensing/precog is def superior.

but yuno is not so far off, also hes fighting style just counters kaido.

 

[Loyd]

Yuno's faster, stronger, more versatile with wind, etc.

Wait is this true? Are we talking about his main attack being stronger?

Can kaido dura survive yuno wind magic spam,
also the MZ attacks that he can spawn on top and around him?
Would kaido tank a attack in character for the lols?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That's a good point.

I'll suppress the inner OP fan in me that wants Kaido to win this by any means necessary. I might have to vote incon, leaning towards Yuno.

Kaido has far superior stamina, as he fought Linlin for a timeframe between 1 to 3 days, scales far above Ace who fought Jinbe for 5 days straight, scales to Linlin who scales to Marco who scales to the admirals who fought for 10 days straight, his stamina is better. His main technique that can hit him and cause lasting damage can be dodged.

Yuno's faster, stronger, more versatile with wind, etc.

Until I see more arguments, incon

Hm, I think yuno takes this, he has close to a 2x AP advantage normally, he is more than 2x faster, he has versatility, danmaku, fights at range so he answers kaido's close combat techniques like thunder bonks, he can counter all kaido's wind techniques with his own, he can dodge kaido's blasts breaths and thunder with hushed spirit dance which is analytical prediction and speed advantage and has control over the entire space kaido is in and can attack from virtually anywhere, possibly even INSIDE kaido in dragon form (he can actually do this), and this is all without the spirit of zephyr, with it he has almost a 4x AP advantage, he's faster in close range so he should do better than kaido, he has passive deconstruction and corrosion inducement which can be useful if he can break kaido's armament. kaido's advantages are his blast breaths which can properly damage yuno, and his immense stamina.

 

[KingTempest]

Wait is this true? Are we talking about his main attack being stronger?

He has an AP advantage with his regular spirit dive attacks

Can kaido dura survive yuno wind magic spam,

He's taken multiple dura neg attacks. He'd be harmed but he wouldn't be down for the count because of his stamina

also the MZ attacks that he can spawn on top and around him?

Can be dodged

Would kaido tank a attack in character for the lols?

Yes

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He's taken multiple dura neg attacks. He'd be harmed but he wouldn't be down for the count because of his stamina

But weren't those attacks from luffy who's significantly weaker than him? He got tagged by oden who scales below whitebeard who's 26 teratons, and got scarred so I think attacks that are more powerful than him should definitely wound him right?

 

[KingTempest]

But weren't those attacks from luffy who's significantly weaker than him? He got tagged by oden who scales below whitebeard who's 26 teratons, and got scarred so I think attacks that are more powerful than him should definitely wound him right?

He's weaker than him AP wise, dura neg ignores that completely.
He's been electrocuted in his heart, stabbed in his body, took several dura neg attacks to the brain and heart.

Also the profiles are outdated. They'll soon be upgraded, which is why it appears that they're weaker.

Also Oden scales comparable to Kaido and Oden scales comparable to WB, not weaker

 

[Loyd]

listen i love one piece as much as the next kid growing up with the rap opening and terrible 4kids dub
but voting yuno for now

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

He's weaker than him AP wise, dura neg ignores that completely.
He's been electrocuted in his heart, stabbed in his body, took several dura neg attacks to the brain and heart.

Also the profiles are outdated. They'll soon be upgraded, which is why it appears that they're weaker.

Also Oden scales comparable to Kaido and Oden scales comparable to WB, not weaker

Ok cool, but why is oden comparable to whitebeard though? He got clapped by roger and roger is equal to whitebeard, even whitebeard overpowered oden, oden destroyed kaido, kaido only knocked him out with a sucker punch.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

listen i love one piece as much as the next kid growing up with the rap opening and terrible 4kids dub
but voting yuno for now

Counted, I'm also counting tempest's incon vote unless you wanna change it tempest.

 

[KingTempest]

Ok cool, but why is oden comparable to whitebeard though? He got clapped by roger and roger is equal to whitebeard, even whitebeard overpowered oden, oden destroyed kaido, kaido only knocked him out with a sucker punch.

Roger used his AP amp when he hurt Oden.
They all have 2 AP amps. CoA and CoC.
They're all relative with CoA, but Roger used CoC on top of it when he hit Oden (Oden couldn't use CoC on top of his attacks back then).

Whitebeard overpowered Oden in the anime, but in the manga they just had a clash. Their whole fight in the anime isn't canon.

Oden matched Kaido here, some of the fight in the manga was off-panel.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Oden matched Kaido here, some of the fight in the manga was off-panel.

So you're telling me oden who was equal to kaido was able to scar him with color of arms? Yuno should definitely be able to wound kaido with his Ap advantage then. But thanks for the explanation but how did you know that roger used color of conquerors?

 

[KingTempest]

So you're telling me oden who was equal to kaido was able to scar him with color of arms? Yuno should definitely be able to wound kaido with his Ap advantage then. But thanks for the explanation but how did you know that roger used color of conquerors?

The black lightning produced is a sign of CoC, which is explained in chapter 1010

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The black lightning produced is a sign of CoC, which is explained in chapter 1010

ok

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Shouldn't this be closed since

• It is not advised to create versus threads with characters in an ongoing series without, or severely lacking, quantifiable statistics.?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Shouldn't this be closed since

• It is not advised to create versus threads with characters in an ongoing series without, or severely lacking, quantifiable statistics.?

Kaido is, in fact, not lacking in quantifiable statistics, but instead we know a whole lot about him and his power.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

A near 2x AP diff, and a 100 TT move and speed adv? Unfair match. These kind of matches should not be made or added.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

A near 2x AP diff, and a 100 TT move and speed adv? Unfair match. These kind of matches should not be made or added.

This isn't a stomp, kaido can definitely win. He is just at a big disadvantage. Also a 2x difference isn't that much, and the spirit of zephyr is a 4x gap. Yuno is just stronger.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

This isn't a stomp, kaido can definitely win. He is just at a big disadvantage. Also a 2x difference isn't that much, and the spirit of zephyr is a 4x gap. Yuno is just stronger.

Yuno being that much stronger is just an unfair matchup to be made then, what ways can kaido win with all these disadvantages? This thread should just be closed.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

This isn't a stomp, kaido can definitely win. He is just at a big disadvantage. Also a 2x difference isn't that much, and the spirit of zephyr is a 4x gap. Yuno is just stronger.

But literally feats in wano can change these stats.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

But literally feats in wano can change these stats.

Yeah, so it should be re-made later, it’s unfair.

 

[KingTempest]

A near 2x AP diff, and a 100 TT move and speed adv? Unfair match. These kind of matches should not be made or added.

Stomps are >7x AP advantage, speed advantages require blitzable differences which can be closed via Kaido's haki..

This is a perfectly fine match

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Stomps are >7x AP advantage, speed advantages require blitzable differences which can be closed via Kaido's haki..

This is a perfectly fine match

Hm, alright then.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Yuno being that much stronger is just an unfair matchup to be made then, what ways can kaido win with all these disadvantages? This thread should just be closed.

A decisive win isn't a stomp, kaido can still damage and outlast yuno, he can also use the blast breath which will be very effective. I swear to god I made this exact argument on a yami vs whitebeard match a long time ago, yami was under every single disadvantage but it was just a decisive win for whitebeard.

But literally feats in wano can change these stats.

We are taking into account feats from wano, we already have a good idea of kaido's powers and abilities.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Hm, alright then.

No it's not... Any character that is ongoing and is still getting feats should be closed...

• It is not advised to create versus threads with characters in an ongoing series without, or severely lacking, quantifiable statistics.

 

[Epsilon_R]

What are Kaido's win cons?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We are taking into account feats from wano, we already have a good idea of kaido's powers and abilities.

When speed, ap and more can literally change in 1 chapter is not a good idea of kaido's powers and abilities.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What are Kaido's win cons?

Much superior stamina, blast breath, observation haki.

When speed, ap and more can literally change in 1 chapter is not a good idea of kaido's powers and abilities.

what? We already know how powerful kaido is, his abilities and where he scales, this rule should instead apply to LUFFY, zoro and those other guys, but kaido is good.

 

[Epsilon_R]

We'll remove it if Kaido gets feats that changes the outcome of the match

AFAIK, I don't think it's a stomp looking by the profiles. In fact, Precog, stamina and range advantage really gives a good chance for Kaido. The decisive factor is just Spirit of Zephyr, which Yuno doesn't automatically start with so Kaido could totally clap Yuno before he uses it.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Well I am not up-to-date with one piece so... ✌

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

We'll remove it if Kaido gets feats that changes the outcome of the match

AFAIK, I don't think it's a stomp looking by the profiles. In fact, Precog, stamina and range advantage really gives a good chance for Kaido. The decisive factor is just Spirit of Zephyr, which Yuno doesn't automatically start with.

I highlight all yuno's advantages already, he has answers for nearly everything kaido has except stamina.

Hm, I think yuno takes this, he has close to a 2x AP advantage normally, he is more than 2x faster, he has versatility, danmaku, fights at range so he answers kaido's close combat techniques like thunder bonks, he can counter all kaido's wind techniques with his own, he can dodge kaido's blasts breaths and thunder with hushed spirit dance which is analytical prediction and speed advantage and has control over the entire space kaido is in and can attack from virtually anywhere, possibly even INSIDE kaido in dragon form (he can actually do this), and this is all without the spirit of zephyr, with it he has almost a 4x AP advantage, he's faster in close range so he should do better than kaido, he has passive deconstruction and corrosion inducement which can be useful if he can break kaido's armament. kaido's advantages are his blast breaths which can properly damage yuno, and his immense stamina.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We'll remove it if Kaido gets feats that changes the outcome of the match

Wouldn't it be better to wait tho?

 

[Epsilon_R]

Yeah I'll think about removing the Mana Zone Spatial Manipulation thing because the more I look at it, the less it fits space manip