Wiki linking to discussion threads or Discord images

[Theglassman12]

And we have bots we can install to prevent such risky tactics from happening, or even better, install roles so that only specific people can remotely gain access to delete comments or scans so that risk is mitigated. You’re once again overreacting over something that can be resolved by people who knows how to handle their scans on discord.

you can say the decision has been taken, that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to say my disagreement on the topic.

 

[Bobsican]

Except you don't moderate every single server remotely related to the wiki's purposes, and so the bot argument is moot and at best supports marginal usage for "trustworthy" users, for which moderation can't be enforced regardless as it's off-site.

 

[Theglassman12]

Again, that’s not discord’s fault if the scans are deleted it’s the user’s fault if the scans are removed and they delete their own channels and posts, just like how it’s the user’s fault on Imgur for deleting their own scan as well should they for some reason delete it all, only difference is you cannot save those scans as only one person can control them. Discord has many options for people to save their own scans from going out. This is all stemming from a theoretical “what if” this happens, rather than any actual proof that we always lose discord scans on the wiki.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Glass, can I know what specifically is your problem here? Why are you arguing so fervantly in favor of Discord? It really isn't debateable that Imgur is, to some extent, more secure than Discord. Yeah, there can be mitigating factors in Discord's favor, but Imgur doesn't need those. The only one who can delete your scan base is you, not because a Discord server was deleted or someone went nuts and just started nuking images, you. So what's the issue?

 

[Theglassman12]

My problem is that we’re completely disregarding discord scans in its entirety when it’s very unnecessary and the same logic and argument applies to other places with screenshots. Unlike Imgur, where the one user who has access to editing and altering his own scans on Imgur deleting them all renders these scans lost until someone finds them again, Discord has many safety procedures to make sure you can archive any and all posts even when deleted. It’s not only needlessly restrictive but adds a lot of unnecessary work when hundreds upon hundreds of scans we use on pages are from discord.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

My problem is that we’re completely disregarding discord scans in its entirety when it’s very unnecessary and the same logic and argument applies to other places with screenshots. Unlike Imgur, where the one user who has access to editing and altering his own scans on Imgur deleting them all renders these scans lost until someone finds them again, Discord has many safety procedures to make sure you can archive any and all posts even when deleted. It’s not only needlessly restrictive but adds a lot of unnecessary work when hundreds upon hundreds of scans we use on pages are from discord.

We're not disregarding the scans though, we're just putting them somewhere more secure. The only expectation would be to place scans from Discord to Imgur. If you personally believe that Discord is safer for archival purposes, nothing is stopping you from using both. We as a site are just moving towards using Imgur as a preference over Discord.

 

[Theglassman12]

so we can still use discord scans on the wiki? If we can still use them in general then my concerns would be at ease.

 

[Antvasima]

You cannot use Discord images in our wiki pages anymore, no. We will hopefully start a project to upload them to the wiki and Imgur instead soon.

 

[Theglassman12]

Then screw that I’m still advocating for discord images to be used on the wiki. Given how much unnecessary restrictions and work there would be.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the decision has already been made. As several of us have explained, this is a necessary safety procedure.

I would also appreciate if you do not try to sabotage our upcoming project for this.

 

[Theglassman12]

And I’ve already explained to you how you can mitigate the risk on discord. Discord has several ways to save any and all deleted posts that makes as reliable, if not more than Imgur. If the person decides to delete all of their scans that’s not discord’s fault, that’s the user’s fault for not being responsible, which for the nth time applies to Imgur as well, only this time you do not have any safety procedures on Imgur itself to save any scans that got deleted.

I mean I’m not gonna really do anything for this project to begin with, as I see it as a waste of time for me when I have several other series to revise atm.

 

[Antvasima]

We have no way of verifying that they take any safety measures.

 

[Theglassman12]

Again, same applies to Imgur since if we’re seriously going the route of random what if scenarios like “what if someone goes in a mass deleting spree and gets rid of comments that had scans”. The same applies to Imgur since you cannot restore deleted posts from Imgur since one guy can edit it, and said one guy could lose control and delete everything. Not only that but for the nth time, it’s not discord’s fault if the scans get deleted, it’s the user’s fault for not doing a good job at keeping them safe. Much like how we cannot blame Imgur for one person who had access to the scans all of a sudden deleting them all and having no way to retrieve them again.

 

[Antvasima]

As others explained, we prefer uploading to the wiki instead of Imgur, but Imgur is still considerably safer that Discord. That is pretty much it.

 

[Bobsican]

I think his point is more like "If we're removing Discord scans, we may as well remove Imgur scans too", and I'd disagree as then we'd start compromising any off-site kind of scan whatsoever, which is vital for feats that require being based on visuals and audio, aka, anything in YouTube, for example, given that the wiki can only host uploaded pictures, not videos or the like for our purposes.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima you do realize images can be overwritten on the wiki right? If two pictures have the exact same name, and someone overwrites the old one with the new one, it's essentially gone, making it a massive pain in the ass to retrieve the previous scan that was gone and reuploading it back to the page. This entire change on what's allowed for screenshots and what isn't stems on a massive what if scenario. Before you say "it's safer" Ant, answer this question for me. Has there been any pages whatsoever where the links do not work anymore, and it's all from discord? If there are some pages that have dead links, then I can see why this is an option, but if there's no history of massive amounts of discord scans being deleted from the wiki because of offsite events, then I do not see the reason to be so paranoid over something that may or may not happen. By this logic Imgur isn't reliable either because someone may or may not delete their own scans, rendering them lost forever.

@Bobsican My point is, the same logic applies to Imgur as well as Discord, therefore just saying Imgur is more reliable when Discord has many safety features to prevent such an event from screwing over all the scans over is flat out ignoring how Discord scans can be reliable to use. This isn't me saying that Imgur is bad, this is just me explaining why Discord can be as reliable to use, if not more than Imgur. Especially when people with common sense knows how to save their scans.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @Mr._Bambu

Can you help with handling this argument please? I am on vacation right now.

 

[Theglassman12]

Have fun with the vacation Ant.

 

[Ogbunabali]

@Antvasima you do realize images can be overwritten on the wiki right? If two pictures have the exact same name, and someone overwrites the old one with the new one

This hasn't been a thing for years. You just can't upload an image with the same name as an existing one.

 

[KLOL506]

This hasn't been a thing for years. You just can't upload an image with the same name as an existing one.

I was about to say this. The wiki will now outright refuse to even accept an image with the same name or of the same filetype with a different name.

You can no longer overwrite IIRC, you can only delete if you are a staff. Otherwise, you can only keep adding on the screenshots.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Fandom actually updated the security where only staff members can upload with exact same wording and overwrite. But I do remember when we used to have trolls who basically replaced character pngs with pornographic images hence why this was updated in the 1st place.

 

[Theglassman12]

That’s not a thing anymore? I remember having to overwrite numerous images when they had the same name.

 

[KLOL506]

That’s not a thing anymore? I remember having to overwrite numerous images when they had the same name.

Nah, you can't do that anymore unless you're staff. When I tried posting the same image which I had already added long ago (As a test), Wiki acknowledges it to be the same image and stops it from being uploaded again. Even if you change the name of said image, it's not gonna work. You'd have to save the image in either a different format or modify the image altogether to be able to add it to the wiki again, or else you will get verifications errors.

 

[Theglassman12]

I see

 

[Antvasima]

Have fun with the vacation Ant.

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I can modify our current rules text to something like this if it is preferable:

"You should definitely not link to Discord-hosted images in our wiki pages, as they can easily be removed/deleted along with the server that they are posted in, thus severely compromising their longevity. You should preferably upload the images to this wiki itself, and then link to them, or use Imgur or a similarly secure image-hosting site, if the former option is not practical."

 

[AKM sama]

you can say the decision has been taken, that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to say my disagreement on the topic.

You've already stated your disagreement. And that has already been noted though.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I can modify our current rules text to something like this if it is preferable:

"You should definitely not link to Discord-hosted images in our wiki pages, as they can easily be removed/deleted along with the server that they are posted in, thus severely compromising their longevity. You should preferably upload the images to this wiki itself, and then link to them, or use Imgur or a similarly secure image-hosting site, if the former option is not practical."

Bump.

Here is how the rules are currently worded:

Editing Rules

The VS Battles Wiki presently consists of 34,442 pages, most of them listing the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In...

vsbattles.fandom.com