Why The Future Warrior (XV2) and Final Form Mira Should be 3-A

[LegendsVII]

Ultimately, Final Form Mira being 2-C and the Future Warrior beating him (along with Goku) does not prove that the Future Warrior is also 2-C.

While Final Form Mira was going to merge the "main Universe" (I'm not even sure he said that verbatim, and even if he said anything along those lines, he was definitely just talking about the mortal realm) with the Demon Realm, this feat itself is not a 2-C feat. The Demon Realm is part of the Universe-- not a separate Universe entirely-- much like the world of the Kaioshin. However, in the Xenoverse series, it has been stated by Chronoa that the Demon Realm and Hell are the same location. Even with this in mind, looking at any map of the Dragon Ball Universe would reveal that the traditional "Demon Realm" and Hell are both confined to the same Universe. And while, yes, Toki Toki's egg would have hatched another timeline, it does not necessarily mean that Final Form Mira upon absorbing it would possess that same capability. This notion seems to merely be upheld by head-canon. Oh, and Goku's feat against Beerus as a SSG would have destroyed the Demon Realm as well, given that it was going to implode all of Universe 7. The Demon Realm outside the Xenoverse universe isn't really all too different in concept to the world of the Kaioshin.

Additionally, let's be frank: Son Goku was doing most of the heavy-lifting throughout that fight,


and we all know that Goku cannot be 2-C at this point. Furthermore, let's say for the sake of argument Mira is 2-C. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Future Warrior is 2-C, too. If anything, it's far more probable that both the Future Warrior and Son Goku as 3-A tiered characters would have been able to defeat Final Form Mira. The Dragon Fist Goku gave Final Form Mira was able to completely incapacitate him, and the Kamehameha fired by the Future Warrior was just the final blow. If a 3-A character (Goku, regardless of whether this is Xenoverse Goku or not-- there's no reason to believe he's stronger than main continuity Goku outside the presupposition that FF Mira is already 2-C) can incapacitate Final Form Mira AND snag his main source of power in the process, there's absolutely no reason to believe the Future Warrior or Final Form Mira are 2-C.


And even if Final Form Mira was 2-C, I think I've made my case that there's no evidence of the Future Warrior being above 3-A.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I legitimately don't follow this argument.

Goku did not do most of the "heavy lifting" in the fight, the Future Warrior was just as much a part of it as him and even landed the killing blow.

Tokitoki's egg was going to hatch into a timeline, so Final Form Mira should have those capabilities as well.

Your points about Goku being 3-A are pointless when he scales to this feat.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with the Demon Realm.

 

[Schnee_One]

Also wrong board

 

[LegendsVII]

I legitimately don't follow this argument.
Goku did not do most of the "heavy lifting" in the fight, the Future Warrior was just as much a part of it as him and even landed the killing blow.

Tokitoki's egg was going to hatch into a timeline, so Final Form Mira should have those capabilities as well.

Your points about Goku being 3-A are pointless when he scales to this feat.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say with the Demon Realm.

POINT 1: "Goku did not do most of the "heavy lifting" in the fight, the Future Warrior was just as much a part of it as him and even landed the killing blow."

If you follow the dialogue in the fight, Goku didn't seem fatigued against Mira at all. "Stings a bit, doesn't it? Well, I am using my full power!" Mira also, when referring to the Future Warrior, points out the fact that he's struggling. He never makes any comment of Goku doing so. Additionally, Goku's Dragon Fist was enough to knock Toki Toki's egg OUT of Mira, which would logically drastically reduce his power. The Kamehameha was the finishing blow, but as I said, Goku and that Dragon Fist did the heavy lifting during the fight.

POINT 2:

" Tokitoki's egg was going to hatch into a timeline, so Final Form Mira should have those capabilities as well."


What is your evidence? As I said, that seems like nothing more than head-canon. Does Goku absorbing the Dragon Balls at the End of GT mean he can now grant any wish? Applying that same internal would mean he could, but there's a reaso nobody bothers trying to figure out exactly how powerful he was at that point, because nothing was shown. This applies to Mira, as well.

POINT 3:

"I don't even understand what you're trying to say with the Demon Realm."


On Mira's profile, it's implied that him being able to combine the Demon Realm with the "main universe" would make him Low 2-C/"Universe Level+". That's silly. The Demon Realm is already a PART of the Universe. From what I understood from the game, he said he'd combine the Demon Realm with the Mortal Realm-- both of which are sections of each individual Dragon Ball Universe, something which is apparent when looking at a map of a DBU from the guidebooks.

POINT 4:

"Your points about Goku being 3-A are pointless when he scales to this feat."

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say by this. Goku is 3-A unless you're operating under the presupposition that Mira is already 2-C, and that two 3-As wouldn't be able to take on a 2-C character. Goku hasn't demonstrated anything resembling a 2-C feat, even in the Xenoverse universe. Yes, Mira being taken down was a co-operative effort. But Goku was still the one who:1) Incapacitated him to the point where he could be Kamehameha'd2) Stole his egg in the process3) Was implied to be hurting Mira by his own admission, whereas the Future Warrior is barely acknowledged by Mira in the fight aside from a throw-away line about him respecting whatever race you're a member of. There is no evidence to support that the Future Warrior is 2-C. Zilch. Nada. Not one. It's not outside the realm of possibility for two 3-A characters to take down a 2-C character, even if Mira is 2-C. I'm mainly more focused on the Future Warrior than Mira here. I may have missed something as far as Mira goes, but as far as the Future Warrior goes? There's simply no proof.

 

[LegendsVII]

Also wrong board

I apologize, is there any way I could move it, or would an admin have to do it?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Please clean up your response. I can't even read it.

 

[LegendsVII]

Please clean up your response. I can't even read it.

Cleaned it up

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I'll give a more developed answer later but i have to clear up something first:

Its impossible for the combined power of two 3-A's to even come close to matching a Low 2-C. Not only that but Mira is Low 2-C not 2-C.

 

[LegendsVII]

I'll give a more developed answer later but i have to clear up something first:
Its impossible for the combined power of two 3-A's to even come close to matching a Low 2-C. Not only that but Mira is Low 2-C not 2-C.

I'm also taking issue with Mira's title of 2-C. If two 3-As ABSOLUTELY cannot defeat a low 2-C, then I do not think Final Form Mira is a 2-C, especially given that combining the Demon Realm with the Mortal Realm would be a 3-A level feat, since that would all take place within one Dragon Ball Universe.

These are the possible outcomes I see:

-Final Form Mira is a Low 2-C that was low enough to be defeated by 3-A Future Warrior and Goku

-Final Form Mira is NOT a Low 2-C and is instead a High 3-A beaten by two 3-As (the most probably and rational scenario, in my opinion)

-Final Form Mira, SSJB Goku from this continuity, and the Future Warrior are all Low 2-C.


Regardless of whatever scenario it is, I do know that SSJB Goku from this continuity has to be just as powerful if not stronger than the Future Warrior.

 

[Golden_Void]

Agreed with Julian and Dark.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

The thing is that even the lowest Low 2-C is infinitely more powerfull than a High 3-A and that is infinitely more powerfull than a regular 3-A. So thats why the second option you gave cant count unless its counted as an outlier.


Ill regard your other points later.

 

[LegendsVII]

Agreed with Julian and Dark.

What points are you even referring to?

 

[LegendsVII]

The thing is that even the lowest Low 2-C is infinitely more powerfull than a High 3-A and that is infinitely more powerfull than a regular 3-A. So thats why the second option you gave cant count unless its counted as an outlier.

Ill regard your other points later.

Understood, but I still don't see how that justifies Mira being 2-C. Especially if Super-Villain Mira is 3-A.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Okay.


The thing is that Mira is not Low 2-C because he is supposedly able to merge the Main Universe with the Demon Realm since that is only a secondary feat. He is Low 2-C because he absorbed ALL of the power of Toki Toki's Egg as stated by Elder Kai.

Now you say that just because Mira absorbed the egg doesnt mean he can create a Timeline by comparing him to GT Goku. But Goku was never even shown fighting or even much after he absorbed them and we have little context as how powerfull he became afterwards if at all.

But Mira is different. Now can Mira create a Timeline? The answer is:No he cant since he has never shown that power. Regardless he is still Low 2-C because he absorbed an Egg which has the power to create a timeline. He might not be able to create a timeline but he can thrown attacks with Low 2-C levels of power because of the power given to him by the Egg.

Now for the Future Warrior (XV2)....he has a lot of reasons to be Low 2-C:

1.The FW (XV2) was able to fight the FW (XV1) who was able to defeat Demigra who was going to create his own timeline (Low 2-C) with the power of Toki Toki. This is further evidenced by the fact that he completely absorbed Toki Toki as opossed to one egg which has the power to create a timeline.

2.The FW (XV2) was able to also fight against Mira himself who had absorbed the full power of the egg which had the components to create a timeline. That alone makes Mira 4-Dimensional (Low 2-C) which would scale to the FW (XV2) and XV Goku.

3.Both Mira and Bardock almost got bodied by the FW (XV2) and both of them were able to destroy a portion of a Timeline. While this alone does not justify Low 2-C it definitely means that the FW (XV2) is at the very least High 3-A.

4.There is also the fact that the clash between Golden Frieza and SSJB Goku (and the FW who was also there) was able to affect the link between the Time Nest and their location. Remember that the Time Nest is a realm outside of the Regular Timeline (Not transcendent to it though I'm not trying to wank).


Also remember that Mira is not rated 2-C right now. He is only rated Low 2-C.

 

[LegendsVII]

@Super Saiyan God Julian

That's fair. If that's the case then I think it's disingenuous for his profile to even mention the Demon Realm thing because that isn't direct evidence of his Low 2-C status. It should just say "absorbed Toki Toki's Egg which had the ability to create a new timeline."

Additionally, this would also make XV Goku Low 2-C at this point, correct? Along with-- I assume-- XV Fused Zamasu?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Stop quoting large blocks of text.

 

[LegendsVII]

Stop quoting large blocks of text.

Okay?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Dragonmasterxyz Okay i wont quote blocks of text.

@LegendsVII Yes i agree. That part of his justificacion should probably be taken out and put only on his "feats" section.

Also considering that Xenoverse is not canon to the Dragon Ball main continuity then i guess it is fair to consider the main characters (who can fight with the God Tiers) Low 2-C at this point but only in Xenoverse.

 

[LegendsVII]

@Super God Julian

In that case, in my opinion there should be profiles for the Xenoverse versions of these characters if Mira and Demigra have their own profiles-- it would clarify a lot of things.

I'm not going to make the profile because I'm a noobie here and didn't make a very good first impression on my first revision ever, but I think someone should. It's a miracle I didn't screw up making Bender's profile lol

 

[The_Everlasting]

We're not making pages for XV Goku or the like. They're absolutely identical to their canon selves outside of being stronger.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

They would just be a tier 2 Goku... that is the reason why we didn't approved a page manga Goku

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I agree with The Everlasting.

 

[LegendsVII]

We're not making pages for XV Goku or the like. They're absolutely identical to their canon selves outside of being stronger.

Understandable, sorry for wasting everyone's time with this thread

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@LegendsVll nah it's fine. This thread helped to clarify the fact that the Top Tiers in XV are Low 2-C.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

However Legends does have a point. The "He was going to merge the Main Universe with the Demon Realm" justificacion should probably be removed from his AP and instead be kept on his "feats" section.

 

[Golden_Void]

I guess this thread is prime for the lock now.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well maybe considering that the questions have been answered.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

So what do you guys think? Have all the questions been answered?

 

[LegendsVII]

Yup! I'm satisfied. This thread is ripe for a lock.