Why no one scales to the speed of the fist clash shockwaves(dragon ball)

[Frey6678]

as far as I know the speed the shockwaves traveled are used here to scale DB characters speed
I don't think that should be used to scale
firstly we know the shockwaves reached the sacred world of the kais

this is currently used to scale the speed of dragon ball characters ^
Problem with this is that Whis himself takes minutes to travel to king kai's planet and then the earth
Daizenshuu 4 map

This map is from the daizenshuu 4 RAW
link to the daizenshuu 4: Daizenshuu 4
If we look here

It states

That the only way to arrive at the sacred world of the kais is by teleportion
Here is the raw itself if interested, if there are any translaters that would be helpful
天国行きの 天国行きの者が、天国に 行くために使う飛行場。 あの世と全宇宙を監視す るため周囲を衛星のよう に回っている別世界、瞬間移動 でしか、ここへの移動は不可能。 界王神達の住む星 この 頑丈な星を舞台に、魔人 ブウとの最終決戦が行われた。 界王神星はこの太陽達に かいおうじんたも ほし 11 / 10 より、照らされている。
Also
Sacred world of the kais as stated above orbits the macrocosm, it is outside it and the furthest point.

we never see anyone actually travel to the sacred world of the kais, it if even further than beerus planet is from earth and king kai's planet, and whis takes minutes.
Of course this does not mean Whis cannot travel by flight to the sacred world of kais(it could most likely imply to mortals) and Vados was capable of traveling from U6 to U7, and Whis can travel to zeno's palace however Whis being the fastest in universe 7 takes minutes to travel to Earth, meaning it would take much, much longer for Whis, the fastest in U7, to travel to the sacred world of the kais.
Again we only see people teleport to the sacred world of the kais, most likely because its too far and someone like Whis would take a long time.

so no one scales to the speed of the fist clash shockwaves
Whis can also travel to zeno's palace, but likewise with the world of the kais, it would take a long time so the best way is by teleportation. He used Goku in order to teleport to supreme kai, to then teleport to zeno's palace.
thoughts?

 

[Vizer04]

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Shockwaves < light that Goku and Beerus' beam struggle created, which Beerus reacted to.

 

[sanicspood]

Watch this get closed within seconds

 

[Frey6678]

Shockwaves < light that Goku and Beerus' beam struggle created, which Beerus reacted to.

and I just realized base trunks reacted to Whis travel speed


however whis was adjusting his speed

so not sure what to say about this
there's also the fact that, similar to the shockwaves, the light got faster as it traveled.

 

[Frey6678]

also mr satan reacted to light

the light covered Goku and Beerus before it going to the world of kais.
after wards the light traveled to world of kais, beforehand everyone saw it glowing, not really a feat.

 

[AKM sama]

So let me get this right. The argument for Goku and Beerus' combat speed not scaling to shockwaves is because Whis took several minutes to fly to the other realms?

1. Whis is never at full speed when he flies there. He is always casual.
2. That's travel speed. It has no relation to combat speed and reactions.

 

[Urshani]

This is just going to get denied again

AS it should, please stop trying to downgrade dbs. there will be no upgrades or downgrades ever

 

[Kingcrim212]

This is just going to get denied again

AS it should, please stop trying to downgrade dbs. there will be no upgrades or downgrades ever

With the strictions coming to low 2c i might not say that if i were you.

 

[Frey6678]

So let me get this right. The argument for Goku and Beerus' combat speed not scaling to shockwaves is because Whis took several minutes to fly to the other realms?

1. Whis is never at full speed when he flies there. He is always casual.
2. That's travel speed. It has no relation to combat speed and reactions.

here we go, again with more headcanory
Whis is never at full speed when he flies there. He is always casual.
proof its not his full speed? Feat for his full speed? Feat to suggest he can casually travel to the sacred world of kais as fast as the shockwaves if he really wanted to?
That's travel speed. It has no relation to combat speed and reactions.
is there any feat of any dragon ball character reacting to whis while he is flying at full speed.
only whis was able to react to his equal vados

 

[Urshani]

With the strictions coming to low 2c i might not say that if i were you.

fuse low 2-C with 3-A already

 

[LordGriffin1000]

here we go, again with more headcanory
Whis is never at full speed when he flies there. He is always casual.
proof its not his full speed? Feat for his full speed? Feat to suggest he can casually travel to the sacred world of kais as fast as the shockwaves if he really wanted to?
That's travel speed. It has no relation to combat speed and reactions.
is there any feat of any dragon ball character reacting to whis while he is flying at full speed.
only whis was able to react to his equal vados

Unless something suggests he's going at maximum speed, we don't count it as his "max speed" that's just basic logic, especially when his expression when flying is almost always casual one iirc. It's simple as can be, he is just flying, no super casual and no full effort unless proven.

fuse low 2-C with 3-A already

Can you talk about that somewhere else please.

 

[Nierre]

It's an assumption that he's going at max speed. Unless he's like rushing to get to a place for a specific reason, there's no reason to assume he's going max speed. Then again I don't really know the context, nor do I care for it. I'm just stating my thoughts.

 

[Frey6678]

Unless something suggests he's going at maximum speed, we don't count it as his "max speed" that's just basic logic, especially when his expression when flying is almost always casual one iirc. It's simple as can be, he is just flying, no super casual and no full effort unless proven.

which is why I wanna see a "full speed" feat, its an assumption to suggest that he can travel to the world of the kais nearly as fast as the shockwaves did, especially since only whis himself was shown to react to Vados, while no one else can react to even that speed of whis(its an assumption to suggest he can go any faster btw)

 

[Urshani]

Can you talk about that somewhere else please.

alright

 

[AKM sama]

proof its not his full speed? Feat for his full speed? Feat to suggest he can casually travel to the sacred world of kais as fast as the shockwaves if he really wanted to?

For starters, in the Arale episode, he covered the same distance that he usually takes 24 or so minutes to cover in just 10 seconds when he put in a little effort.

is there any feat of any dragon ball character reacting to whis while he is flying at full speed.

Not sure how that is relevant. Nobody ever needed to react to him and the opportunity never arose.

 

[Frey6678]

For starters, in the Arale episode, he covered the same distance that he usually takes 24 or so minutes to cover in just 10 seconds when he put in a little effort.


Not sure how that is relevant. Nobody ever needed to react to him and the opportunity never arose.

For starters, in the Arale episode, he covered the same distance that he usually takes 24 or so minutes to cover in just 10 seconds when he put in a little effort.
im aware of this, is there any time frame for this though? For starters, Goku and Frieza fight only took 5 minutes but seems way longer, timeframe please?
Not sure how that is relevant. Nobody ever needed to react to him and the opportunity never arose.
So no feats to suggest that a dragon ball character, can react to whis, let alone the shockwaves which are far faster, concession accepted.
Btw I still see no answer to suggest Whis can travel to the world of the kais, as fast as the shockwaves did, when no one has actually traveled there unless they have teleported. Concession accepted on that.

 

[AKM sama]

im aware of this, is there any time frame for this though? For starters, Goku and Frieza fight only took 5 minutes but seems way longer, timeframe please?

It's explained in this blog.

So no feats to suggest that a dragon ball character, can react to whis, let alone the shockwaves which are far faster, concession accepted.

They did react to the big blast wave. They are not scaled from the inconsistent shockwaves of the punches.

Btw I still see no answer to suggest Whis can travel to the world of the kais, as fast as the shockwaves did, when no one has actually traveled there unless they have teleported. Concession accepted on that.

Again, travel speed is irrelevant when talking about reactions and combat speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a heads up, using a flight speed limitation to attempt a combat speed dismissal isn't the most effective practice.

 

[Frey6678]

It's explained in this blog.


They did react to the big blast wave. They are not scaled from the inconsistent shockwaves of the punches.


Again, travel speed is irrelevant when talking about reactions and combat speed.

It's explained in this blog.
and that blog uses the macrocosm map to scale
macrocosm map cannot be used to scale for a number of reasons

1. heaven and daio kaio planet aren't much different in size, when in reality they is a massive difference

2. Snakeway is clearly visible, snakeway is only 1mil km, are you suggesting snakeway takes up most of the macrocosm?
3. King kai's planet in the map is shown to be the same size as the world of the kais map, and the same size of the stars
4. king yemma's palace is shown to be bigger than sacred world of kais planet

5. mountains in hell are shown bigger than world of kais planet
etc
debunked the blog

Again, travel speed is irrelevant when talking about reactions and combat speed.
feats to suggest anyone can react to Whis travel speed? Feats that suggest Whis can easily travel to the world of kais as fast as the shockwaves?
Daizenshuu says teleportation is what is used to reach the world of the kais

no mortal has feats to suggest they can even react to Whis, same Whis who has no feats to suggest he can travel to the world of kais as fast as shockwaves. Mortals need teleportation to travel to world of kais

 

[AKM sama]

and that blog uses the macrocosm map to scale

Irrelevant to the point of this thread. You asked for a timeframe for the Arale episode feat. You can see it in that blog. It was 10 seconds.

no mortal has feats to suggest they can even react to Whis, same Whis who has no feats to suggest he can travel to the world of kais as fast as shockwaves. Mortals need teleportation to travel to world of kais

You're repeating yourself even after those points have been addressed. If you have nothing else to say, I will have to close the thread.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

OP is the kind of guy to claim dyspo is only FTL.

 

[Frey6678]

Irrelevant to the point of this thread. You asked for a timeframe for the Arale episode feat. You can see it in that blog. It was 10 seconds.


You're repeating yourself even after those points have been addressed. If you have nothing else to say, I will have to close the thread.

so I still see nothing that suggest whis can travel as fast as the shockwaves?concession accepted

timeframe is irrelevant when the distance of the world of kais is unknown(debunked the macrocosm map), still nothing suggesting whis can travel as fast as shockwaves? concession accepted.

no feats to suggest any character can react to even Whis travel speed(who is slower than the shockwaves, nothing thus far has suggested otherwise)? concession accepted.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't agree with the arguments given by the OP, so I can't agree with this CRT - but I do think that using the shockwaves to scale the character's combat speed is extremely weird. Will wait to see if anyone will post a CRT for it that I actually agree with.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I don't agree with the arguments given by the OP, so I can't agree with this CRT - but I do think that using the shockwaves to scale the character's combat speed is extremely weird. Will wait to see if anyone will post a CRT for it that I actually agree with.

They don't scale to shockwaves, well they do but they mainly scale to the ki blast light.

 

[Frey6678]

OP is the kind of guy to claim dyspo is only FTL.

So far I have not been debunked, I do believe dyspo is MFTL+ however, just not DB characters being quintillion times faster than light or something lmao. Beerus himself couldn't react to Vados, only Whis. Nothing suggest they can react to Whis travel speed, macrocosm map scaling was already debunked, and nothing has been suggested Whis can travel as fast as the shockwaves.

 

[AKM sama]

You're working under faulty logic. Later when you get time, go through the thread again and try to make sense of what has been said here regarding travel speed =/= reactions.

You can also read the Speed page for that.

I do believe dyspo is MFTL+ however, just not DB characters being quintillion times faster than light or something lmao

Understandable. If you make a better thread in the future, I might be interested.