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When The Discussion Cries - New Forum

OverlordDonnelly said:
I'm personally loving it so far, and I like the fact that there's no clear "bad guy." While I admittedly side with Satoko overall, I still understand that both are being selfish and not talking things out properly.

Unless we get a bad end, I don't see this ending in two episodes. S@ when?
Click to expand...
In all honesty, I also take Satoko's side although I do not condone her actions. So far I also like Gou very much.
 
At least I hope we can all agree that, even if we don't like Gou, the current moment is probably one of the best moments to be part of the WTC community. All the theories about Gou, Umineko, and since last week, Ciconia, are making this one of the best experiences I ever had in this medium.
 
Can we talk about the latest episode/Episode 22 of Higurashi where Featherine Makes Satoko watch all seasons of Higurashi, satoko didn't even consider any negotiation with Rika and just straight up saying "**** your 100 years of suffering I still want you to obey me because I am absolutely CERTAIN I'll win this"

FB_IMG_1614903677631.jpg
 
Infinity_Shun said:
Can we talk about the latest episode/Episode 22 of Higurashi where Featherine Makes Satoko watch all seasons of Higurashi, satoko didn't even consider any negotiation with Rika and just straight up saying "**** your 100 years of suffering I still want you to obey me because I am absolutely CERTAIN I'll win this"
Click to expand...
- "Satoko didn't even consider any negotiation with Rika and..."
Satoko has been established previously that she has difficulty having negotiations with people close to her, particularly her fathers. Yes, you heard me right, fathers. Her mother had constantly been getting divorce after divorce from her partners while also having children from the beginning. Satoshi was old enough to respect the fathers that came one after another and his personality was flexible enough for him to do so. Satoko was not. She was not able to accept her fathers ever since her first or second ones, and no matter what her fathers tried to do she would not accept them as her own. She would even go so far as to fake child abuse in order to be rid of one of her fathers. This reason alone would be why Tamae and Teppei's actual abuse of Satoko went unnoticed by the CPS, something that would not be justifiable no matter what you say. This is not to say she was malicious in her actions. Her intentions clearly show her being a child who was unable to accept and process fundamental change to her family structure. She did not want any sort of radical change that would threaten her status quo, something many, many, children would experience at some point. Satoko's difficulty in negotiating and conceding to people close to her was always there, it is simply that it was either overlooked, forgotten, or never known about.

Note: Satoko is, nevertheless, in the wrong for faking child abuse for the sake of removing her father from her life. But to expect Satoko to magically come to terms with her father and start opening up to him would be unrealistic considering the problems she had with her other fathers. They clearly needed guidance. Also, no, this does not in any way justify the CPS into not taking action against her actually abusive aunt and uncle.

This in itself would explain her difficulty in conceding and negotiating with Rika. She was the closest person in the universe to her. She felt that nothing would change so long as she was her friend and would stay in Hinamizawa, a place she now considered her home thanks to the villagers for forgiving and loving her for who she is. Yet things changed, very radically at that. And now that she experienced what it would be like to go under Rika's dream twice over, it would be a repeat of what she had to go through with her broken family. Her dream of being accepted into a loving community was snatched away from her. Her desire to be in a stable relationship was vaporized more than once thanks to her parents' rocky relationships and Rika being a selfish prick.

- "just straight up saying '**** your 100 years of suffering I still want you to obey me because I am absolutely CERTAIN I'll win this'"
Except you neglected the fact that Rika herself never treated Satoko as an actual friend throughout the hundred years of her suffering. Hanyuu called her out on it and told her to finally respect and listen to Satoko so that she would not ruin her life. Yet Rika did not listen to Hanyuu. This happened multiple times in multiple fragments considering Matsuribayashi happened many times over. Rika did not heed what Hanyuu, her other close friend and relative, said to her over and over and look where that got her. If Satoko is at fault for doing this sort of thing then Rika is equally accountable for refusing to help her "best friend" time and time again. Rika is not the innocent party here, nor is she necessarily a victim. She is an abusive individual in her own right, just like Satoko is. She kept on pushing Satoko into accepting her new reality and was unwilling to concede one bit to her friend's dissatisfaction. She refused to take "No" as an answer and kept on pressuring her into going along with her. Forcing someone into accepting whatever you want to do is, in itself, abuse. I have experienced this first hand in my life and many others who have experienced this do as well. Satoko is not in the right for becoming abusive and horrible herself by doing this sort of thing in return to Rika, but neither is Rika in the right because she was the one who started this in the first place.

If you do not support Satoko and support Rika instead, I completely understand. But you have to consider the context and nuance behind both of their behaviors in order to really understand where they are coming from and to form an informed stance. That is all.
 
ÆONS said:
- "Satoko didn't even consider any negotiation with Rika and..."
Satoko has been established previously that she has difficulty having negotiations with people close to her, particularly her fathers. Yes, you heard me right, fathers. Her mother had constantly been getting divorce after divorce from her partners while also having children from the beginning. Satoshi was old enough to respect the fathers that came one after another and his personality was flexible enough for him to do so. Satoko was not. She was not able to accept her fathers ever since her first or second ones, and no matter what her fathers tried to do she would not accept them as her own. She would even go so far as to fake child abuse in order to be rid of one of her fathers. This reason alone would be why Tamae and Teppei's actual abuse of Satoko went unnoticed by the CPS, something that would not be justifiable no matter what you say. This is not to say she was malicious in her actions. Her intentions clearly show her being a child who was unable to accept and process fundamental change to her family structure. She did not want any sort of radical change that would threaten her status quo, something many, many, children would experience at some point. Satoko's difficulty in negotiating and conceding to people close to her was always there, it is simply that it was either overlooked, forgotten, or never known about.

Note: Satoko is, nevertheless, in the wrong for faking child abuse for the sake of removing her father from her life. But to expect Satoko to magically come to terms with her father and start opening up to him would be unrealistic considering the problems she had with her other fathers. They clearly needed guidance. Also, no, this does not in any way justify the CPS into not taking action against her actually abusive aunt and uncle.

This in itself would explain her difficulty in conceding and negotiating with Rika. She was the closest person in the universe to her. She felt that nothing would change so long as she was her friend and would stay in Hinamizawa, a place she now considered her home thanks to the villagers for forgiving and loving her for who she is. Yet things changed, very radically at that. And now that she experienced what it would be like to go under Rika's dream twice over, it would be a repeat of what she had to go through with her broken family. Her dream of being accepted into a loving community was snatched away from her. Her desire to be in a stable relationship was vaporized more than once thanks to her parents' rocky relationships and Rika being a selfish prick.

- "just straight up saying '**** your 100 years of suffering I still want you to obey me because I am absolutely CERTAIN I'll win this'"
Except you neglected the fact that Rika herself never treated Satoko as an actual friend throughout the hundred years of her suffering. Hanyuu called her out on it and told her to finally respect and listen to Satoko so that she would not ruin her life. Yet Rika did not listen to Hanyuu. This happened multiple times in multiple fragments considering Matsuribayashi happened many times over. Rika did not heed what Hanyuu, her other close friend and relative, said to her over and over and look where that got her. If Satoko is at fault for doing this sort of thing then Rika is equally accountable for refusing to help her "best friend" time and time again. Rika is not the innocent party here, nor is she necessarily a victim. She is an abusive individual in her own right, just like Satoko is. She kept on pushing Satoko into accepting her new reality and was unwilling to concede one bit to her friend's dissatisfaction. She refused to take "No" as an answer and kept on pressuring her into going along with her. Forcing someone into accepting whatever you want to do is, in itself, abuse. I have experienced this first hand in my life and many others who have experienced this do as well. Satoko is not in the right for becoming abusive and horrible herself by doing this sort of thing in return to Rika, but neither is Rika in the right because she was the one who started this in the first place.

If you do not support Satoko and support Rika instead, I completely understand. But you have to consider the context and nuance behind both of their behaviors in order to really understand where they are coming from and to form an informed stance. That is all.
Click to expand...

You didn't have to write an essay lol but I understand your point very well explanation Indeed.

download.jpeg
 
I feel like my main grip with Gou is the fact that it wanted to focus on Satoko, and I never liked Satoko even in the OG novel.
Turn her into obsessives crazy b!tch and you triggered almost ever trigger I have.

Anyway I dropped Gou because it's been getting in my nerves for a while now, hopefully there is a good twist at the end to make me pick it up again.
 
ÆONS said:
- "Satoko didn't even consider any negotiation with Rika and..."
Satoko has been established previously that she has difficulty having negotiations with people close to her, particularly her fathers. Yes, you heard me right, fathers. Her mother had constantly been getting divorce after divorce from her partners while also having children from the beginning. Satoshi was old enough to respect the fathers that came one after another and his personality was flexible enough for him to do so. Satoko was not. She was not able to accept her fathers ever since her first or second ones, and no matter what her fathers tried to do she would not accept them as her own. She would even go so far as to fake child abuse in order to be rid of one of her fathers. This reason alone would be why Tamae and Teppei's actual abuse of Satoko went unnoticed by the CPS, something that would not be justifiable no matter what you say. This is not to say she was malicious in her actions. Her intentions clearly show her being a child who was unable to accept and process fundamental change to her family structure. She did not want any sort of radical change that would threaten her status quo, something many, many, children would experience at some point. Satoko's difficulty in negotiating and conceding to people close to her was always there, it is simply that it was either overlooked, forgotten, or never known about.

Note: Satoko is, nevertheless, in the wrong for faking child abuse for the sake of removing her father from her life. But to expect Satoko to magically come to terms with her father and start opening up to him would be unrealistic considering the problems she had with her other fathers. They clearly needed guidance. Also, no, this does not in any way justify the CPS into not taking action against her actually abusive aunt and uncle.

This in itself would explain her difficulty in conceding and negotiating with Rika. She was the closest person in the universe to her. She felt that nothing would change so long as she was her friend and would stay in Hinamizawa, a place she now considered her home thanks to the villagers for forgiving and loving her for who she is. Yet things changed, very radically at that. And now that she experienced what it would be like to go under Rika's dream twice over, it would be a repeat of what she had to go through with her broken family. Her dream of being accepted into a loving community was snatched away from her. Her desire to be in a stable relationship was vaporized more than once thanks to her parents' rocky relationships and Rika being a selfish prick.

- "just straight up saying '**** your 100 years of suffering I still want you to obey me because I am absolutely CERTAIN I'll win this'"
Except you neglected the fact that Rika herself never treated Satoko as an actual friend throughout the hundred years of her suffering. Hanyuu called her out on it and told her to finally respect and listen to Satoko so that she would not ruin her life. Yet Rika did not listen to Hanyuu. This happened multiple times in multiple fragments considering Matsuribayashi happened many times over. Rika did not heed what Hanyuu, her other close friend and relative, said to her over and over and look where that got her. If Satoko is at fault for doing this sort of thing then Rika is equally accountable for refusing to help her "best friend" time and time again. Rika is not the innocent party here, nor is she necessarily a victim. She is an abusive individual in her own right, just like Satoko is. She kept on pushing Satoko into accepting her new reality and was unwilling to concede one bit to her friend's dissatisfaction. She refused to take "No" as an answer and kept on pressuring her into going along with her. Forcing someone into accepting whatever you want to do is, in itself, abuse. I have experienced this first hand in my life and many others who have experienced this do as well. Satoko is not in the right for becoming abusive and horrible herself by doing this sort of thing in return to Rika, but neither is Rika in the right because she was the one who started this in the first place.

If you do not support Satoko and support Rika instead, I completely understand. But you have to consider the context and nuance behind both of their behaviors in order to really understand where they are coming from and to form an informed stance. That is all.
Click to expand...
This is amazingly written!

Most of the hate for Gou that I've seen was on MAL, with people constantly saying that both Rika and Satoko are extremely out of character. But no one ever talked about Satoko's past, or how Hanyuu called Rika out for seeing Satoko more of a pet than an actual friend.
 
Ovy7 said:
This is amazingly written!

Most of the hate for Gou that I've seen was on MAL, with people constantly saying that both Rika and Satoko are extremely out of character. But no one ever talked about Satoko's past, or how Hanyuu called Rika out for seeing Satoko more of a pet than an actual friend.
Click to expand...
I've noticed that a large portion of the MAL community watching the series, seem to mostly be DEEN only Higurashi viewers, and a handful of newcomers. So that's definitely not the best place to get a good idea of how people feel about Gou.
 
Tfw all you want to see is Keiichi being a badass and solving shit like he always does but I have to put up with Satoko's drama :cautious:

Btw RIP Satoshi, not even Satoko gives a shit anymore 🤣
 
ZERO7772 said:
Tfw all you want to see is Keiichi being a badass and solving shit like he always does but I have to put up with Satoko's drama :cautious:

Btw RIP Satoshi, not even Satoko gives a shit anymore 🤣
Click to expand...
Keiichi solving everything and becoming a sorcerer in the process would be very ******* cool TBH.
 
Looks like a 3rd cour of Higurashi Gou is confirmed.

Part of the reason I dropped it was because it had slow pacing and thought it will have a rushed ending, Looks like I might pick it back up. :oops:
 
Reformed Teppei is cursed. On a serious note though, this is a very interesting route they decided to take. Not to mention, the sensitive topic of potentially forgiving an abuser. Nice Teppei is still weird as hell though

It felt like there was no way it could have ended by the 24th episode, and now that seems confirmed.
 
I swear I never expected this episode's twist. I expected the Umineko and Ciconia references, but not this xD
 
Redeeming Teppei is something I have have never seen coming.
Tappei is not only only an abuser but also hinted to have molested her back in the OG
Ryokishi actually trying to redeem him is bold move
 
OverlordDonnelly said:
Reformed Teppei is cursed. On a serious note though, this is a very interesting route they decided to take. Not to mention, the sensitive topic of potentially forgiving an abuser. Nice Teppei is still weird as hell though

It felt like there was no way it could have ended by the 24th episode, and now that seems confirmed.
Click to expand...

Episode 24 is gonna be a bloodbath I know it.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Ryokishi actually trying to redeem him is bold move
Click to expand...
I think it's worth mentioning that it took divine powers to finally make him take a look at himself, while he was equally terrible across countless worlds during 100+ years

This Teppei is the result of looper influence, but it's still interesting to see that being forced to reflect on his life decisions so harshly, can actually prompt him to change his ways.
 
Ovy7 said:
Any idea what it was about?
Click to expand...
no unfortunately, I don't think there's any weight to it.

From what I can tell, the umineko profiles on this wiki are incredibly "downplayed" compared to what these characters are debated at on discord, so my guess are the rumor was just a rumor
 
Well, while they may be lowballed here, the lvl they are debated on Discord is completely wanked and fanfiction territory (especially if it includes stuff from ReWrite), but whatever.
 
Ovy7 said:
Well, while they may be lowballed here, the lvl they are debated on Discord is completely wanked and fanfiction territory (especially if it includes stuff from ReWrite), but whatever.
Click to expand...
I only brought that up as it's unlikely someone from a community that has all the characters at boundless would attempt to downgrade from 1-B/outer, hence why I figured if no one here had heard about said rumor, then it was likely nothing.
 
From what I can tell, the umineko profiles on this wiki are incredibly "downplayed" compared to what these characters are debated at on discord, so my guess are the rumor was just a rumor
Click to expand...

Wdym, umineko is human level. Witches don't exist. It's all a book.
Jokes aside, yes. I definitely am not in favor of 1-B witches.
 
The things in the series, present witches in a hierarchal manner completely separate from the human domain, a 1-B construct, so by definition (with some more context and scans of course) the Witches domain should be low 1-A to 1-A, and it should scale to game masters etcetera, that's subjectively what I think the tiers should be.
[I understand the major revisions for 07th expansion took forever though, so I won't bother complaining like this.]
Hasty12345 said:
wdym?
Click to expand...
 
Guardian_Doge said:
The things in the series, present witches in a hierarchal manner completely separate from the human domain, a 1-B construct, so by definition (with some more context and scans of course) the Witches domain should be low 1-A to 1-A, and it should scale to game masters etcetera, that's subjectively what I think the tiers should be.
[I understand the major revisions for 07th expansion took forever though, so I won't bother complaining like this.]
Click to expand...
ahhh, I see
 
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