When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

[Guardian_Doge]

Trollege.
As much as this lowkey hits me, I'll agree with the downgrades as well the multiple creators.

There just isn't sufficient evidence for an infinite hierarchy.
Time to rely on discord wank
But seriously, ciconia phase two come out now and upgrade the verse pls.
(Edit: I noted I put "well as the multiple creators", instead of "as well" LOL, I need sleep.)

 

[Pepsiman25th]

sad the guys in cthulhu wont be joining umineko for baseline 1-A

 

[QuasiYuri]

Bern would be downgraded to 1-B....Tenma Yato AP level currently is 1-B too.......my last Bern vs Yato match was created less than 2 years ago....and today they would be in same level again....

Don't derail with this kind of thing please.

 

[Birgi126]

There just isn't sufficient evidence for an infinite hierarchy.

The thread doesn’t say that an Infinite Hirtachy doesn’t exist though?
It proposes that Creators are still 1-A, due to transcending an Infinite Hierachy

 

[Guardian_Doge]

The thread doesn’t say that an Infinite Hirtachy doesn’t exist though?
It proposes that Creators are still 1-A, due to transcending an Infinite Hierachy

Infinite hierarchy for the 3rd domain

 

[Birgi126]

Infinite hierarchy for the 3rd domain

This thread denies the existence of the Third Domain, yet alone there being a hierachy there.

 

[Megaraptor149]

So, if this thread downgrade accepted.
It's Featherine would be 1-B or Baseline 1-A?

 

[Darksmash]

So, if this thread downgrade accepted.
It's Featherine would be 1-B or Baseline 1-A?

Baseline 1-A for her true form

 

[Vexzito]

What's wrong with these statements of there being a Domain higher than the Witch Domain?

 

[QuasiYuri]

What's wrong with these statements of there being a Domain higher than the Witch Domain?

Having something higher than the Witch Domain isn't the problem. It just never was considered to be a "domain" and is just a realm where Feath is (which, depending on whether you consider it referring to her true self, is just Creator realm anyway).

What's problematic is that the current justifications consider that said realm has infinite layers in it, above the ones mentionned in Lambdadelta's Memoirs; which is really just wrong and unsupported.

 

[Birgi126]

What's wrong with these statements of there being a Domain higher than the Witch Domain?

They refer to Creator Domain, not a 3rd Domain that is magically in between them.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

This thread denies the existence of the Third Domain, yet alone there being a hierachy there.

Yes…that’s the entire point of my agreement. There is insufficient evidence regarding a 3rd domain to be an infinite hierarchy/exist as a whole.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ovy7 @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0

We would still appreciate some input here.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Hm. Frankly I expected this thread to have moved a bit more while I was gone. Anyhow:

Anything above the middle is the Creator realm, per Lambda's explanation. Her self-insert (or true self, for Ovy7) isn't in said realm.

Sure Feath's super strong for a witch, but she is still one. Lambda knows about Featherine and didn't made any differences.

Lambdadelta herself says that what she lays out in her memoirs are just her personal views of things, and is open to the possibility of there being an unknown world which even she doesn't know about (And which she'd expect Beatrice to reveal to her), so that already creates a precedent for her explanation not covering the full picture.

Even the Creators are also directly stated to still be Witches of a sort, just ones that rank above both Voyagers and Territory Lords, as seen in the TIP you quoted in the OP. So, again, I don't think "She is still a witch" is the strongest of arguments here, since the term itself can be divided into multiple different ranks and categories

If anything, given how "great witches" that returned from the forbidden heights like Featherine did are stated to be indistinguishable from Creators and directly called "gods" by Erika (When she describes the stories they oversee as "the tale of the gods"), I think it's pretty safe to assume they're a category of their own, which Lambda doesn't belong to, and Featherine existing apart from Witches much like Witches exist apart from Humans just hammers that point home, since you can notice that, in her memoirs, Lambda makes a distinction between "our world" (The world of witches, since she always uses "we," "us," "our" and etc to talk about herself and fellow witches) and what she calls "the physical, human world." If Great Witches see Witches like Witches see Humans, then it's all but natural that a similar distinction also exists between the former two, no?

Granted, that specific use to the term "Great Witch" (or "great one") is only ever brought up in Episode 8, and beforehand, it's thrown around a lot and used to refer to far lesser people (Hell, going by the definition given in the prologue of Episode 3, Sorcerer Battler is a Great Witch), so, I admit it's pretty slippery and context-specific.

Besides, unless the two scenes contradicts themselves (which they don't, narration even emphasis the fact that Lambda knows all that stuff which is why she's stressed, can't choose to win nor lose, knows about Featherine's weakness and even the past incident with it) there's no reason to reject additional infos from two perfectly equal canons.

So Lambdadelta perfectly knows all the stuff about Featherine so far.

Given the angle I showed up there, I came to half-agree with this, since Lambda obviously knows about the "great witches," but given how it's also mentioned that they're pretty much impossible to distinguish from Creators, in spite of everything else pointing to a lower status (Them being conscious, active entities that returned from that realm, the whole existence of Featherine's Study, and the deal with Beatrice going through a process of evolution in their world), I think it's pretty reasonable to say that this is just a matter of them being so high up and having so few restrictions that, from the perspective of lower beings, there's hardly anything that practically separates them from outright Gods.

Which doesn't apply new hierarchies or anything, just that they are much higher.

It does, at least, imply the existence of a third world, given that Beatrice evolves specifically by constantly ascending through layers. And like I said above, this world would just be where the great witches who returned from the Creator World make their homes.

I consider that there's only one infinite ladder; not two infinite ladders that scale to each others and are the only reason for anything beyond 1-A.
How it changes stuff is pretty obvious.

Yeah, but your whole argument against the "no endpoint" statement meaning an infinite set of layers seems to be that Featherine managed to reach the World of the Creators, which is a bit weird to me, given you still consider the Voyagers to be capable of going beyond an infinite hierarchy through a gradual ascension given enough time.

It does seem to translate to "endpoint", but I would say it is definitely no proof of infinite heirarchy. The conclusion that the heirarchy is infinitely layered from "having no endpoint" internally assumes their journey involves continuous ascend to deeper parts of the ladder, which isn't true as Lambda directly says she is a coward who may never reach the deeper parts, seemingly due to her fear of the creator.

She also states that there are other Voyagers who are far ahead of her within the hierarchy, because they are not afraid of losing their footing or growing closer to the Creators, something which she also alludes to in other parts of the text. For instance, when recounting her meeting with Takano, she talks about how people who climb the ladder are either cautious, slow and timid or anxious and excited for new heights (Or depths, I guess):

You could descend all nervous and timid, wondering how much longer there is to go until you reach the depths, or you could plunge down in excitement and hurry.

And later on, she also mentions that her own journey did involve going down the layers of the ladder, just slowly and one step at a time over the course of several millenia:

No... On the contrary, her composition formula is too deep.
While I've been climbing down the well on the ladder one rung at a time over the course of millennia, it's as though she opened up a parasol and used that as a parachute to swoop down to the depths... and at what speed...!

So, yeah, it seems pretty clear that the travels of the Voyagers do indeed involve ascending towards higher and higher layers, just at different speeds, and given that Lambda specifically notes herself as being just a cowardly type, I don't think applying that statement to all Voyagers is very accurate.

Well, in a way it would be the same result as what's being argued, since the two combined would just be one infinite ladder.
Although my stance is more than while there's an infinite ladder for sure, it only stops at Creator realm, per Lambda's world
and even if we ignored that added a second hierarchy it wouldn't be an infinite one and would result in a single infinite ladder, hence would come back to the same thing.

I'm aware of that, which is why I called it a counterargument to my points. I'm not defending the 1-A+ rating so much as I am defending the existence of three separate domains that stand beneath the World of the Creators. The first thing is just in the periphery to me, pretty much.

Then it would have nothing to do on any Voyagers page, and just be them being able to draw from it.

Which actually makes more sense given how both Battler and Bernkastel are Sorcerer of Miracles and are fundamentally different.

Voyagers being a secondary existence and all isn't what's currently on the profiles, which consider the concept as their true self, which is what I was arguing about.

However, if we just consider it as "flowery" talk (not every case of "embobidment" have to be litteral, after all) to say that they hold control over this kind of concept, then I'm fine with it.

In that case, it appears that Lambda just feeds from the concept of certainty or only has control over the portion that is available to her. I sure as hell don't see the point of giving a concept a tier, so I think that key should be removed

You can certainly argue that, yeah, but I don't particularly agree with it. The whole idea behind the concept of a "Witch" in Umineko is that they aren't really individual people, but large-scale phenomena whose effects in the environment could be attributed to a supernatural entity, hence why Dlanor states that mysteries and riddles are the only spaces in which they can exist, and why the name "Beatrice" doesn't necessarily address only the woman which Battler bickers with during the story, but also the very rules and environment defining the gameboard, which, when exposed and unravelled, cause the Territory as a whole to collapse.

Given the above, I do believe those concepts have a strong enough association with their embodiments to be featured on the profiles, as well as a solid enough connection to the existence of the realms they permeate to be tiered.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree with the proposals

 

[QuasiYuri]

Lambdadelta herself says that what she lays out in her memoirs are just her personal views of things, and is open to the possibility of there being an unknown world which even she doesn't know about (And which she'd expect Beatrice to reveal to her), so that already creates a precedent for her explanation not covering the full picture.

Even the Creators are also directly stated to still be Witches of a sort, just ones that rank above both Voyagers and Territory Lords, as seen in the TIP you quoted in the OP. So, again, I don't think "She is still a witch" is the strongest of arguments here, since the term itself can be divided into multiple different ranks and categories

If anything, given how "great witches" that returned from the forbidden heights like Featherine did are stated to be indistinguishable from Creators and directly called "gods" by Erika (When she describes the stories they oversee as "the tale of the gods"), I think it's pretty safe to assume they're a category of their own, which Lambda doesn't belong to, and Featherine existing apart from Witches much like Witches exist apart from Humans just hammers that point home, since you can notice that, in her memoirs, Lambda makes a distinction between "our world" (The world of witches, since she always uses "we," "us," "our" and etc to talk about herself and fellow witches) and what she calls "the physical, human world." If Great Witches see Witches like Witches see Humans, then it's all but natural that a similar distinction also exists between the former two, no?

Granted, that specific use to the term "Great Witch" (or "great one") is only ever brought up in Episode 8, and beforehand, it's thrown around a lot and used to refer to far lesser people (Hell, going by the definition given in the prologue of Episode 3, Sorcerer Battler is a Great Witch), so, I admit it's pretty slippery and context-specific.

Well, everything regarding "Great Witches" and Gods is context specific af yeah. This I can only agree with.

However I would have to disagree with the "Great Witches" necessarily being on Featherine's level, Feath being hyped up as the only witch to ever have reached such a level, even after we had mention of these "Great Witches" several times being the first reason. Such a presentation would have been 100% meaningless if all the witches mentionned minutes ago were comparable to her.

Second one is that, sure, they are so high above that them and Gods hardly makes a difference to lower witches, but it doesn't necessarily mean being above the witch world. If you are at layer 42, and you witness someone at layer 93087439349030434 and someone at the very last layer, it'll hardly makes a difference even if they are fundamentally different beings.
However Lambda clearly isn't on their level yeah, given how you had an emphasis on how she "disobeyed the highest witches" regarding Senate stuff.

Given the angle I showed up there, I came to half-agree with this, since Lambda obviously knows about the "great witches," but given how it's also mentioned that they're pretty much impossible to distinguish from Creators, in spite of everything else pointing to a lower status (Them being conscious, active entities that returned from that realm, the whole existence of Featherine's Study, and the deal with Beatrice going through a process of evolution in their world), I think it's pretty reasonable to say that this is just a matter of them being so high up and having so few restrictions that, from the perspective of lower beings, there's hardly anything that practically separates them from outright Gods.

Creators are actually "conscious" being, with the "no will" stuff and all being explained by Ryushiki07 as being basically "boredom", as shown in the OP. Given what witches think of boredom and how Maria is supposed to be a great Creator because she doesn't get bored, it's also just more logic.

I also kinda disagree with Lambdadelta referring to Great Witches, since she clearly gave attributes unique to actual Creators and Gods, which you don't find in the Featherine persona. While her not being 100% reliable obviously has basis (it is her personal view and she's never been there), TIPS confirm that she's right anyway and pretty much repeat what she says herself.

It does, at least, imply the existence of a third world, given that Beatrice evolves specifically by constantly ascending through layers. And like I said above, this world would just be where the great witches who returned from the Creator World make their homes.

Well, since I explained my disagreement on great witches part, I'll not repeat myself on this point.

However I think I may not have made myself precise enough. I can see a sort of realm above witches, kinda as a "last doorstep" between the rest of the ladder and Creator realm. I just disagree with considering it as a full domain, which looks like making a realm like the Underside of the Chessboard into its own domain (or maybe more like, the state Sayo was before being properly acknowledged as a witch) in comparison.

Yeah, but your whole argument against the "no endpoint" statement meaning an infinite set of layers seems to be that Featherine managed to reach the World of the Creators, which is a bit weird to me, given you still consider the Voyagers to be capable of going beyond an infinite hierarchy through a gradual ascension given enough time.

She also states that there are other Voyagers who are far ahead of her within the hierarchy, because they are not afraid of losing their footing or growing closer to the Creators, something which she also alludes to in other parts of the text. For instance, when recounting her meeting with Takano, she talks about how people who climb the ladder are either cautious, slow and timid or anxious and excited for new heights (Or depths, I guess):

And later on, she also mentions that her own journey did involve going down the layers of the ladder, just slowly and one step at a time over the course of several millenia:

So, yeah, it seems pretty clear that the travels of the Voyagers do indeed involve ascending towards higher and higher layers, just at different speeds, and given that Lambda specifically notes herself as being just a cowardly type, I don't think applying that statement to all Voyagers is very accurate.

I think we're misunderstanding each others on this one.

Voyagers are of course ascending through the infinite ladder Lambda mentionned in her explanation, and ultimately surpass it when they become a Creator.

My thing regarding "no endpoint" is not that there isn't infinite layers to the known hierarchy, it's that the Ovy7's blog uses it to say "well, it means there's a second infinite hierarchy we didn't heard of with its very first layer encompassing the one Lambdadelta talked about" as the sole proof for this idea.
And I think that we can both agree that this is among the weakest evidence ever used to prove such a thing, with it the "no endpoint" not being right in term of cosmology, in that Voyagers do end up becoming Creator if they keep ascending.

Regarding the last part, the idea that this statement apply especially to Lambdadelta seems wrong to me, since the TIPS, which aren't meant to focus on a specific individual, clearly states that most Voyagers fear that and don't wanna end up as a Creator.

I'm aware of that, which is why I called it a counterargument to my points. I'm not defending the 1-A+ rating so much as I am defending the existence of three separate domains that stand beneath the World of the Creators. The first thing is just in the periphery to me, pretty much.

I see. It makes debatting the others points easier then.
Stuff like the endpoint part (which seems to create more confusion than anything) only matters for the "second infinite hierarchy outta nowhere" which is the 1-A+ rating, making one thing less done with if everyone's kinda on the same page regarding it.

You can certainly argue that, yeah, but I don't particularly agree with it. The whole idea behind the concept of a "Witch" in Umineko is that they aren't really individual people, but large-scale phenomena whose effects in the environment could be attributed to a supernatural entity, hence why Dlanor states that mysteries and riddles are the only spaces in which they can exist, and why the name "Beatrice" doesn't necessarily address only the woman which Battler bickers with during the story, but also the very rules and environment defining the gameboard, which, when exposed and unravelled, cause the Territory as a whole to collapse.

Beatrice was said to be kind of special by Bernkastel, so I'm not sure if it works well.

However I think a better way to phrase Darkmash's idea may be that "they are drawing powers from these concepts based on how people can interpret them".

I don't have much mainstream examples so I'll go with what I'm the most knowledgeable on while not being a pain to explain.

In Konosuba you have spirits which are all the embodiment of something. Shogun Winter (the most famous one) is the embodiment of winter. However he isn't litteraly the concept of winter itself, but rather an idea that people associate with winter (Shogun Winter being some sort of view of a "wrathful winter" and a kind of Jack Frost being in people mind) but can still use snow/winter related powers and all.

It kinda fits both your argument, Umineko's themes, the fact that Lambda & coe obviously aren't above themselves, and stuff such as several witches of the same title existing yet being different (Witches of Miracle being the prime example).

 

[Darksmash]

She also states that there are other Voyagers who are far ahead of her within the hierarchy, because they are not afraid of losing their footing or growing closer to the Creators, something which she also alludes to in other parts of the text.

Yes I already brought this up in a previous post. That's why it wouldn't make sense for voyagers' journey to be on a different heirarchy in comparison to the journey of voyagers that aren't afraid of the creator, which would have a fundamental endpoint.

And later on, she also mentions that her own journey did involve going down the layers of the ladder, just slowly and one step at a time over the course of several millenia:

Except she later clearly says that Beatrice can potentially reach to depths that "cowards like her might never be able to reach". Seems pretty clear what the text is implying. Especially when fear was directly associated with willingly accepting restrictions in prior parts of the text.

The whole idea behind the concept of a "Witch" in Umineko is that they aren't really individual people, but large-scale phenomena whose effects in the environment could be attributed to a supernatural entity,

This is kinda misleading because Beatrice had plot specific reasons to be described like that. It also had nothing to do with the kind of witch she was(endless).

And also an unrelated example because its effects are only limited to their territory, while voyagers don't have a territory by definition.

I think we should favour what Lambda herself says over some fan theories. She was still climbing the ladder and also knows about her own powers. No reason for her to not make it clear if she encompassed it as a whole. Not to mention even your interpretation can be applied in the sense that they only exist as large scale phenomenon in the portion of the Cosmology they have transcended.

Lambdadelta herself says that what she lays out in her memoirs are just her personal views of things, and is open to the possibility of there being an unknown world which even she doesn't know about (And which she'd expect Beatrice to reveal to her), so that already creates a precedent for her explanation not covering the full picture.

Except Lambda knows about the properties of the Creator(having no restrictions, ground and all). If there was the scope of the existence of an unknown heirarchy following a different conceptual algorithm compared to the witch domain's removal of restrictions then her explanation of the Cosmology is completely invalid since it doesn't leave the scope for one in the first place(since after the witch domain where restrictions are removed creator's domain with no restrictions follows).

Lambda's memoirs are also the only source of an infinite heirarchy for the verse, not sure if we would want to bring it into question.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima still seems to make sense to me.

 

[Regidian]

Ultima still seems to make sense to me.

Can i ask make sense for witch point ?

The main point of the OP is the downgrade of everything that is above 1-A, which Ultima tell himself he didn't really disagree or don't want to try to defend these tier that much

The discussion is more now about how much domain compose the only infinite layered hierarchy.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I haven't had the time to read all of this thread, so I tend to focus on the staff posts.

 

[Regidian]

Okay. I haven't had the time to read all of this thread, so I tend to focus on the staff posts.

No prob

 

[Antvasima]

Does anybody have links to the threads in which DarkLK thoroughly explained the reasons for the high Umineko ratings?

 

[Everything12]

Ultima said he's going to post another reply "soon".

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's been a long time since we aren't using DarkLK's time reasonning. Pretty much all the current stuff as little to do with how it was.

Besides, it's not like the current knowledgeable members are bad compared to him either. Some part of his view on WTC are directly being contradicted (Creators case, for instance) or just weren't really that solid too.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antvasima]

Would you be willing to help out more here @Ovy7 ? It would be appreciated.

 

[Darksmash]

I suggest tagging more mods to see their opinions on the thread, since it's moving at a snail's pace

 

[Alonik]

I didn't want to extend too much, however it all still comes down to how the world should be seen, most notably the voyagers as well. Anyhow:

Fundamentally, I agree with @Ultima_Reality regarding Voyagers being concepts, actually, I think all witches are universal laws because of how implied that at least the known witches are those who travel through fragments i.e. those that are released and cast adrift from the physical plane to walk between the fragments--Voyagers. Regardless of what happens with the Younger Beato and the claims about territory lords not being able to travel through fragments if they're not voyagers, which even so, when Featherine was "learning" about Beatrice's journey, we can see how she traveled the sea of fragments through the "millennia", or how actually we can see the beginning point of her journey unto the sea of fragments with Gaap. A point aforementioned in the scan between Beato and Lambdadelta in the manga or in Lambda's memories, however, in Clair's restricted record during the episode 7, chapter "New Days".

In spite of that, Beatrice's context is not just because she is a specific witch, but rather how the large-scale phenomena work; Beato wanted to change the world, and she made her mind grow without bound, indeed her imaginings grow to an infinite size, as a result, her magical compendium influenced and changed the world of witches.

There is also how Piece is a pillar of the world such as the mainstay of the world.

"私は、尊厳なる観劇と戯曲と傍観の魔女であらせられる、大アウローラ卿よりカケラを預かる使者として生み出されました。大アウローラ卿が、世界を支える柱という偉大なる蝋燭に灯る炎であるならば、私はこの程度の蝋燭なれど、大アウローラ卿の炎より火を分けられた、分祀されし存在なのでピス。" ⇨ "I was brought into existence as a emissary to take care of the pieces sent by the Great Lady Aurora, the majestic Witch of Theatergoing, Drama, and Spectating. If Lady Aurora is the flame that ignites the great candle, the mainstay of the world, then i am a enshrined being, a candle of that degree, whose was given fire from the flame of the Lady Aurora."

As can be seen, she doesn't drain her power from an abstract of the world, she is actually that aspect, embodied as a humanoid witch. Though, this is just how the world of the witches works, there are several ways to argue this, mainly because that world is a collective unconscious, where any being that loses its form, shape, the idealization of what they're, they cease to exist.

Nevertheless, this scan above is also a point of what I and @QuasiYuri agree on the most, because we still have the conception that Featherine created everything, and thus is the author of that world, that oversees the territory of witches as a gameboard--the mainstay. And just a fiction in the third domain.

そういう考え方もできますね。フ ェザリーヌはあの世界における神、世界の 執筆者に限りなく近いんです。⇨ That's one way of thinking about it. She's the closest thing to a god in that world, the author of the world.

For this same reason the notion of what Creators are, is the most important so far. But first, as I argued with @Ultima_Reality in our pm, my points about this subject was:

1. The ascension of the voyagers ends at the end point, the depths of oblivion:

彼女らの航海に終点はなぐ、むしろ終点から逃れるための旅だとすら言い切れるかもしれない。⇨ Their voyage has no end point; in fact, it is might said that they're on a journey to escape the end point.

2. The narrative of episode 8 discursively states that Witches of the far higher planes are Creators, and later it is said that the whole territory of the witches is just a gameboard to Featherine, in the same way that the human domain is a gameboard for the witches. And in spite of that, this already debunks the argument that the sea of fragments and the oblivion reaches the third domain, hence, and again; that's why this whole territory is just a gameboard for the third domain.

Granted that, do note that voyagers know the entire length of the sea of fragments, particularly Bernkastel who has access to the Depths of Oblivion, and when she is summoned by Featherine in the Third Domain, she claims that it is impossible for her to get lost in the Sea of Fragments, and therefore that should've been impossible, which implies as well being outside the sea of fragments and the depths.

• Bernkastel being summoned to the third domain in the novel
• In the manga

Or let's also not forget how Featherine claims that in the world of the gods they can revive whenever they want, what exactly is implied when she becomes a Creator and was cursed with the deadly illness, the same illness which is just a slumber that she wakes up whenever she wants.

魔女の域を極め過ぎて、造物主の域にまで達し、・・・至ってはならぬ境地に触れ、死の病に没したと伝えられていた。⇨ she surpassed the limits of a witch, reaching the level of a Creator, ......and upon reaching that field, she was cursed with a deadly illness.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'll try to make a summary of the currently accepted stuff and what's still being discussed in a bit.
Still got stuff to say, but don't wanna write rn.

 

[MrKerf]

It's been a long time since we aren't using DarkLK's time reasonning. Pretty much all the current stuff as little to do with how it was.

Besides, it's not like the current knowledgeable members are bad compared to him either. Some part of his view on WTC are directly being contradicted (Creators case, for instance) or just weren't really that solid too.

His justification probably changed with years too, looking at his own wiki, and their profiles. Although they are even stronger than ours now I believe.
I can try contacting him, if that would be helpful. He is knowledgeable too, after all.

 

[Odinson]

Ovy won't be replying to this thread. This is what he posted on his wall :

"I'll be on break for an unknown period of time. Won't be involved with the wiki in this time period, excluding maybe commenting here and there in some general discussion thread"

 

[Darksmash]

looking at his own wiki, and their profiles

Can you link them?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'm not really in favor of it, since we aren't necessarily agreeing with him since some time and treating him as some sort of higher authority above our knowledgeable members just seem wrong, but we can still have a look I guess.

 

[MrKerf]

I meeean it's in russian, soooo...

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ah. I know we were basing ourselves on this wiki a long time ago, but didn't know it was DarkLK's.

 

[Delta333]

this one?

 

[QuasiYuri]

this one?

Yes.
But sadly it lacks scans and concrete explanations combined, although I still praise the fact that it lists even the most obscures part of WTC.

 

[Antvasima]

His justification probably changed with years too, looking at his own wiki, and their profiles. Although they are even stronger than ours now I believe.
I can try contacting him, if that would be helpful. He is knowledgeable too, after all.

That would be appreciated, yes. Make sure to be very respectful, or he will not help us out.

 

[Antvasima]

Ovy won't be replying to this thread. This is what he posted on his wall :

"I'll be on break for an unknown period of time. Won't be involved with the wiki in this time period, excluding maybe commenting here and there in some general discussion thread"

Okay. That is very unfortunate.

 

[Hasty12345]

this one?

idk if it's a translation error or not, but Featherine has "Trolling" as an ability on that page and it should definitely be an ability on this wiki