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When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
- Start date
- Status
- 32
- 31
I wasn't asserting the Umineko cosmology literally works like this. It was an analogy for the statement used not necessarily meaning a single ladder, hence I tried to get that dude to explain the context of it being a single ladder.
Though, I don't know why certain people think asking for context is arguing for a tier.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
Taking an argument apart in a vacuum isn't really helpful. You have to also consider what exactly the argument is countering and what are the assumptions it builds upon.
Anyway, do you still have any issues with it?
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I want to correct about few stuff right here.
1. The hierarchy is not infinite, lambdadelta said it's infinite but that's just her thought, and not an factual statement.
Lambdadelta's statement got debunked by asumu/piece in last note.
She literally said the hierarchy has end point, which mean the hierarchy is just 1-B.
2. How does being a great witch give High 1-B in tier? Hanyuu furude is a great witch, yet she's just 6th dimensional being.
Great witch is just Higher rank witch than the speaker.
3. The creator was explained as Omnipotent and omniscient who created everything and completely boundless from all notion of restriction <- it was explained in original japanese version, idk why in english version they change some of the statement. (I play the raw version and have the scan, i can send it later)
1. The hierarchy is not infinite, lambdadelta said it's infinite but that's just her thought, and not an factual statement.
Lambdadelta's statement got debunked by asumu/piece in last note.
She literally said the hierarchy has end point, which mean the hierarchy is just 1-B.
2. How does being a great witch give High 1-B in tier? Hanyuu furude is a great witch, yet she's just 6th dimensional being.
Great witch is just Higher rank witch than the speaker.
3. The creator was explained as Omnipotent and omniscient who created everything and completely boundless from all notion of restriction <- it was explained in original japanese version, idk why in english version they change some of the statement. (I play the raw version and have the scan, i can send it later)
- 4,504
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If the hierarchy's endpoint is the creator, then I'm not sure if this is the best argument
Scans for the 6D stuff? Cause even regular witches are 1B, so this doesn't make much sense.
I mean, it doesn't really change much seeing as Omnipotence doesn't mean that much on the wiki
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
Scan for thIs, Lambdadelta's statement was Maybe our world like going down an Infinite ladder
Scan
Doesn't really change much
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- 16
What do you mean thats not the best argument? I just pointing out that the hierarchy can't be infinite becuase it has end point.
Infinite should be never end.
I will send it later, im still at work right now.
Well, i just pointing out that the original japanese version talking about singular creator who is omnipotent and creator of everything.
While the english version talking about multiple creators.
I think we should follow the original japanese version than the english version.
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,088
We kinda use infinite as a set for everything.
Ik which scan you are referring to, but it is her human domain manifestation.
I already proved how the japanese also was about several Creators. Did you read the OP?
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In this case is not about infinite set, its about the context of statement itself.
When lambdadelta stated about infinite ladder, she's not even sure about her own statement. "Maybe our world like going down an infinite ladder"
That's just her assumtion which got debunked by asumu/piece in last note.
"My master reached that peak, then realize that was not a place to go for those with will and then returned"
featherine found the Highest point of the ladder which lead to the creator domain.
Sooo the hierarchy has end point/ not infinite.
No, thats from her database which stated she come from beyond 5th dimension.
I do, but i think you wrong at some point.
There are 2 kind of creators.
1. The original creator who created everything.
2. Creator witches.
Creator witches are not the creator, they are creators but not the one who created all of existance.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
I agree with this. But the thing is, this website is extremely lax with the usage of infinity. Things like infinity having an endpoint isn't seen as a contradiction here, otherwise it would initiate mass downgrades for a lot of other verses. Hence for the sake of fairness this shouldn't be used as a counter argument.
I also agree here. Arbitrary terms like "great witch" don't really provide any concrete evidence for anything at all and idk why we give such arguments a pass just because they are being used for Umineko. Wouldn't work for several other verses.
- 4,654
- 2,465
Two wrongs don't make a right, why does that not mean other verses should be downgraded as well?
- 3,759
- 1,622
This literally makes sense but doesn't infinite have an end?I thought only uncountable infinite didn't have an end.
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
I haven't seen any verse like that on the wiki. Verses I Know are High 1-B are Infinite or endless
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
The amount of downgrades that would initiate is terrifying. Best to just ignore it and accept it as consensus. You can't fix everything on this wiki.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
Almost all verses I know with infinite hierarchies have some kind of "top" to them, with said top being reachable through the hierarchy. SCP, Umineko, I/O, Lovecraft, possibly Dark Tower etc
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Well it's not like everything on this wiki is PERFECT.
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Pretty much a big part of the wiki.
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
Alright agree with this
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,099
There's never been any differentation on that subject. The only proof of an "original The Creator" is a mistranslation of a line in Lambda Memoirs.
Unless you can debunk both the japanese, context, and Ryushiki07 own words; there is no singular "The Creator" except in some guys' headcanon.
I'm starting to seriously be tired of people who consider this kinda stuff to rule over the work itself.
- 4,654
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I mean we should still index as accurately as possible right...
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,101
Here it is more because infinity is a set the moment you apply it to a structure (at least in fiction).
Unless it is continuously stretching or growing.
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Well i play both the original japanese version and english version.
Im pretty sure the original one stated about the creator who is the one who created everything which does not exist in english version.
In the interview, ryukishi also stated about featherine being the closest thing to a god but not the god itself.
He also stated there are multiple writers/creators like featherine but they are not the God who began all of existance.
Im pretty sure the original one stated about the creator who is the one who created everything which does not exist in english version.
In the interview, ryukishi also stated about featherine being the closest thing to a god but not the god itself.
He also stated there are multiple writers/creators like featherine but they are not the God who began all of existance.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
Can you post those interview statements???
Because that's extremely important if true
- 22
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Sure
"R07: That’s one way to look at it. Featherine is the closest thing to a god in that world, the world’s guardian. So there’s no doubt that she’s the strongest character in the story. At the same time, it’s pretty embarrassing. I made myself appear in my work and wrote “I’m super strong~!” (laughs) Isn’t it like a fantasy novel with the author himself as the strongest hero?"
"R07: In the Episode 6 tips, the reason why Featherine is “living and dying” is because when she was a piece, she knew that she was a character who was being written by someone else, and she didn’t doubt that it was her free will. She died because she realized it was a thing that was being done. But she came back as a writer herself. And without shame or prejudice, she gained true free will by drawing herself in her own work. She may be in a world of relay comics now. Maybe she exists in a world where she writes her own characters, but the rest of her work is written by multiple writers."
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,105
I put the jap in the OP and it never says such a thing.
That's the guy asking a question who formulated it this way. Ryushiki07's answers clearly says she's a Creator and match everything made in-verse.
There are several Creators yes. Your idea of a single one who created existence is still a headcanon.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
The keyword is "that". It says she is the closest thing to God in that world. That is, her avatar is the closest being to the creator(same thing as an author avatar being the closest thing to an author).
- 4,504
- 2,222
Doesn’t work for something that transcends said hierarchy
- 165,392
- 72,718
I have deleted the two pages, but these other pages need to have their links to them updated:
I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.
- 165,392
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I think they are still waiting for Ultima to arrive.
- 4,504
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They’re still disagreeing when it comes to the truths scaling
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,636
Can you also unlock Black Battler and Theory Goats for a minor change?
- 22
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I think we should remove High 1-B rating, being a great witch to attain that tier does not make sense.
As i said before, the great witch is just higher rank witch than the speaker.
And the infinite hierarchy does not have solid explanation beside lambdadelta's assumption which got contradiction.
I agree with 1-B stuff but totally dissagree with high 1-B stuff
As i said before, the great witch is just higher rank witch than the speaker.
And the infinite hierarchy does not have solid explanation beside lambdadelta's assumption which got contradiction.
I agree with 1-B stuff but totally dissagree with high 1-B stuff
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,115
We have no Great Witch profiles.
Also infinity having an end isn't enough to disprove it since we litteraly have tiers above High 3-A, 2-A or High 1-B.
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What do you mean by having tier above High 1-B disprove the High 1-B contradiction?
1-A can still be attained without having High 1-B cosmology.
- 6,605
- 4,143
- Thread starter
- #1,117
Basically according to you infinity having an end here is supposed to debunk stuff.
If it was the case nobody would be above High 3-A.
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That's literally different case with this one.
Infinite 3D space is nothing compared to 4D which mean the 3D space with infinite size can be surpassed by Higher dimensional structure.
This is not about size, but number of said hierarchy.
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
This is a different case tho
- Status
