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When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

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Frederica said:
yes i read it i think yesterday i was told that Featherine is downgrade that's why i came here and refused
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For now none of your argument debunks anything nor give any proof of Feath being above 1-A tho.

Kakeras are nowhere that level, and that's the only relevant cosmological element you brought.
 
QuasiYuri said:
For now none of your argument debunks anything nor give any proof of Feath being above 1-A tho.

Kakeras are nowhere that level, and that's the only relevant cosmological element you brought.
Click to expand...
we all know here a piece of Featherine's achievement, namely FAA has another form, namely HACHIJO IKUKO (a umineko story author)
however Hachijo Ikuko is not the original author of the Umineko story.

Umineko's story stems from the true experience of a paralyzed man named HACHIJO TOYA whom he saves and cares for.
Ikuko raised Tohya's story into a novel and his work exploded and suddenly became famous and is predicted to be the most controversial fiction because it saves ridles from the Rokkenjima Island incident where the Ushiromiya noble family was massacred.

Ikuko is looking for a reader, finally she meets ange (side character) a child of a noble family from ushiromiya who is lucky not to go to rokenjima island that day.

When meeting ange, ikuko reveals her true form which turns out to be a magician named FEATHERINE AUGUSTUS AURORA (FAA)
Ikuko offers Ange to be his raedar, and if Ange wants to accept it, he (FAA) promises to provide absolute protection to Ange.
and sends ange to the world in her novel or the past when her family was massacred on the island of Rokkenjima

Ange is ordered to be an observer to find the truth in the tragedy.

Featherine (FAA) can include real humans (all of us with 3D dimensions) into novels/fiction and can also bring characters from the fictional world (pictures/fiction with 2D dimensions or so on) into the real world.
He can also change the hierrachy position of the world at will.

Featherine (FAA) is able to change the storyline and even from the start all that happened in Umineko was his artificial plot manipulation (FAA).
Including the scene of Lambdadelta (Voyager) fighting him.
Lore Featherine (FAA) has the power of author/become a writer herself.
 
Frederica said:
we all know here a piece of Featherine's achievement, namely FAA has another form, namely HACHIJO IKUKO (a umineko story author)
however Hachijo Ikuko is not the original author of the Umineko story.

Umineko's story stems from the true experience of a paralyzed man named HACHIJO TOYA whom he saves and cares for.
Ikuko raised Tohya's story into a novel and his work exploded and suddenly became famous and is predicted to be the most controversial fiction because it saves ridles from the Rokkenjima Island incident where the Ushiromiya noble family was massacred.

Ikuko is looking for a reader, finally she meets ange (side character) a child of a noble family from ushiromiya who is lucky not to go to rokenjima island that day.

When meeting ange, ikuko reveals her true form which turns out to be a magician named FEATHERINE AUGUSTUS AURORA (FAA)
Ikuko offers Ange to be his raedar, and if Ange wants to accept it, he (FAA) promises to provide absolute protection to Ange.
and sends ange to the world in her novel or the past when her family was massacred on the island of Rokkenjima

Ange is ordered to be an observer to find the truth in the tragedy.

Featherine (FAA) can include real humans (all of us with 3D dimensions) into novels/fiction and can also bring characters from the fictional world (pictures/fiction with 2D dimensions or so on) into the real world.
He can also change the hierrachy position of the world at will.

Featherine (FAA) is able to change the storyline and even from the start all that happened in Umineko was his artificial plot manipulation (FAA).
Including the scene of Lambdadelta (Voyager) fighting him.
Lore Featherine (FAA) has the power of author/become a writer herself.
Click to expand...
This show nothing above 1-A like we have already tell you
 
Regidian said:
This show nothing above 1-A like we have already tell you
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why do you say "this doesn't show anything"? we maintain here that Featherine is able to include fiction and non-fiction in Umineko's story, even that is only a small part of Featherine's achievements, even Voyagers like Lambdadelta & Brenkastel are made into cats
 
You're not quantifying the feats my friend.

What you're doing is like saying "Naruto is stronger than Kakashi and is therefore mountain level", without establishing what tier Kakashi is.

It's not informative, especially when Featherine is already established as the verses god tier.
 
Frederica said:
FAA has another form, namely HACHIJO IKUKO (an author of umineko stories)
however Hachijo Ikuko canceled the original author of the Umineko story.

Umineko's story stems from the true experience of a paralyzed man named HACHIJO TOYA whom he saves and cares for.
Ikuko raised Tohya's story into a novel and the game exploded and became famous and is predicted to be the most controversial fiction because it holds the riddle of the Rokkenjima incident where the ushiromiya noble family was massacred.

At the Featherine library (FAA), ..chik Beatrice learns the fragments of her original (Beatrice) past that are in the story/fragment


Within that fragment Chik Beatrice met various Beatrices from different worlds.

This proves that a book in the Featherine's library (Featherine's Study) not only collects 1 piece of the world, but also collects many pieces of the world (multiverse) and even explains the extent of Umineko's cosmology being in the outverse +, the FAA became the creator even he lived and died many times. -times because of boredom
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Its not even relate with 1-A or above and you just keep repeating the same comments
 
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Frederica said:
why do you say "this doesn't show anything"? we maintain here that Featherine is able to include fiction and non-fiction in Umineko's story, even that is only a small part of Featherine's achievements, even Voyagers like Lambdadelta & Brenkastel are made into cats
Click to expand...
Which doesnt give any tier.
 
So is anything going to happen to the 1-A level high-godly that the meta characters have are we nuking it or is it just becoming high-1B ?
 
catzlaflame said:
So is anything going to happen to the 1-A level high-godly that the meta characters have are we nuking it or is it just becoming high-1B ?
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Regeneration isn't linked to tier anyway. It was established months ago iirc.
 
Azidharllt said:
Btw, is there any upgrade for Umineko soon?Since Umisaku isn’t done yet
Click to expand...
If there were I would have included them in the thread.

But eh, my only real reason for making thread is being tired of seeing people think there's a singular "The Creator" guy or whatever.
 
Frederica said:
no i'm not sure i've read all the downgrade threads,. can you help me to straighten this out? I think this downgrade is not valid
Click to expand...
The reason for the downgrade is because the basis of anything 1-A/H1-B, relies off the infinite ladder statement which originally (present misconception) was it's a infinite ladder for only the witch domain. And then with the third domain hierarchy (which no longer exists) was what made the high 1-A rating.
It can be explained in detail more, but that's the main point.
 
QuasiYuri said:
So the basis of High 1-B or p much anything involving 1-A comes from a single thing: Lambdadelta talking about an infinite ladder with infinite steps, which we consider to be restricted to the Witch Domain.
Well, I'm here to challenge this notion, and explains how it just can't be as limited as we think it is.

I would first get your attention to this specific scene, especially the sentences that appear on the first screen appearing since the timestamp.

In this english translation, Lambdadelta says that all beings can be put between two extremes, the extremes being the lowest part of the Human Domain, and the highest being the "Kingdom of God", with the infinite ladder being for everything in between, nowhere does it says that it is restricted to the Witch Domain, just that they are around "the middle". While the Witch world is part of that infinite ladder, the opposite doesn't have to be true.

Not convinced? Well, there's more to support that.

This statement is pretty much the same in the japanese version, being 全ての存在は、運命に翻弄される側と運命を生み出す側の二極の間のどこかに位置していると説明できる。

However the kanji translated as being there is 存在, which has another meaning, existence. As shown prior, Lambdadelta Memoirs is really badly translated, and the specific part of the sentence 全ての存在は can be commonly read as all of existence, making the idea that Lambda's talking not only about the Witch Domain even stronger.
Click to expand...
I don't get this interpretation. All the statement says is: "All beings can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods" or "all of existence can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods". I'm not understanding how this statement proves there's a single ladder running through the entire cosmology when it doesn't make a mention of the ladder.

Two points can have multiple ladders in between. Stack 10 ladders on top of each other with the bottom being named point x and the top being point y. Then the statement "all of existence between point x and y" would be encompassing multiple ladders.
 
From how I understood it, due to the 3rd domain not being a thing along with some other details noted in the thread, arguments of 1A don’t have that much basis unfortunately
 
Vexzito said:
I don't get this interpretation. All the statement says is: "All beings can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods" or "all of existence can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods". I'm not understanding how this statement proves there's a single ladder running through the entire cosmology when it doesn't make a mention of the ladder.
Click to expand...
The context is entirely about ladder. The Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods are the two extremes of said ladder.
Vexzito said:
Two points can have multiple ladders in between. Stack 10 ladders on top of each other with the bottom being named point x and the top being point y. Then the statement "all of existence between point x and y" would be encompassing multiple ladders.
Click to expand...
Except they wouldn't be the two extremes of a single ladder then, which is what both are all about.

Also there's just no true basis for several ladders.
 
QuasiYuri said:
The context is entirely about ladder.
Click to expand...
I'm already aware of your interpretation of the statement. I'm asking why you believe there is hidden "context" behind it when nothing about a ladder is mentioned.

"Everything fits in between two locations" is somehow interpreted as "everything fits in between two locations within a 'single ladder' with those two locations being the top and bottom of the 'single ladder'".

The Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods are the two extremes of said ladder.
Click to expand...
The statement does not say so. When was this said?

QuasiYuri said:
Except they wouldn't be the two extremes of a single ladder then, which is what both are all about.
Click to expand...
Except the statement never talks about a single ladder or a ladder at all.
 
Vexzito said:
I'm already aware of your interpretation of the statement. I'm asking why you believe there is hidden "context" behind it when nothing about a ladder is mentioned.
"Everything fits in between two locations" is somehow interpreted as "everything fits in between two locations within a 'single ladder' with those two locations being the top and bottom of the 'single ladder'".
Click to expand...
Hidden...? That's litteraly the subject of Lambda Memoirs here.
Vexzito said:
The statement does not say so. When was this said?
Click to expand...
Unsurprisingly, Lambda Memoirs.
Vexzito said:
Except the statement never talks about a single ladder or a ladder at all.
Click to expand...
L a m b d a M e m o i r s

God please at least try to know what's already acknowledged before the thread itself.
 
QuasiYuri said:
Hidden...? That's litteraly the subject of Lambda Memoirs here.
Click to expand...
That's not all Lambdadelta's Memoirs is about. The ladder was mentioned at the start, not at 10 minutes into the video. They're on a different topic being Witches transcendence over Humans.

A ladder being mentioned doesn't mean every single sentence later on in that series is still about the ladder. What kind of logic is that? Your applying your own "context" that is not needed/stated.

QuasiYuri said:
Unsurprisingly, Lambda Memoirs.

L a m b d a M e m o i r s

God please at least try to know what's already acknowledged before the thread itself.
Click to expand...
I know the statement about "all of existence fits in between two locations" is from Memoirs. I asked you where "The Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods are the two extremes of said ladder." is stated and can you present it?
 
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Vexzito said:
I know the statement about "all of existence fits in between two locations" is from Memoirs. I asked you where "The Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods are the two extremes of said ladder." is stated.
Click to expand...
The point would be that all of existence is between two extremes. This would clash with there being multiple hierarchies
 
Tarang123 said:
The point would be that all of existence is between two extremes. This would clash with there being multiple hierarchies
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It wouldn't, you can have two extremes that cover multiple hierarchies, and you can have multiple hierarchies that fit all of existence.

Already gave an example but here you go again. Let's have 3 ladders stacked on each top of other with the top of the third ladder being point x and the bottom of the first ladder being point y.

Now I state, "All of existence fits in between the two extremes (being point x and y)". There you have the same statement with "all of existence" covering multiple hierarchies.

You have to presuppose the two extremes in Lambdadelta's case is talking about the top and bottom of a single ladder, but that is not stated.
 
She's litteraly talking about the extremes regarding restrictions, aka what the ladder is about.

Also there's just no other infinite hierarchy.

It's kinda tiring to see people who didn't care about the thread pop up the moment they see it downgraded stuff.
 
Vexzito said:
It wouldn't, you can have two extremes that cover multiple hierarchies, and you can have multiple hierarchies that fit all of existence.
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that this entire "two extremes thing" refers to the act of removing restrictions, which goes throughout the hierarchy which leads to the creator.

And refutations to the 3rd domain hierarchy were already given in the OP, so...
 


this vid pretty clearly shows that the Human Domain characters are completely restricted, they have ground to stand and won't fall to "hell". However, on the other side you have creators or gods who create fate and are freed from all restrictions, therefore structuring a hierarchy in the verse.

Witches are at the middle of this hierarchy where they can manipulate fate and stuff, but clearly do have restrictions and have to be careful as to not fall to the bottom.

Even voyager witches like Lambda aren't done with this "ladder" or hierarchy, so...yeah.
 
Vexzito said:
I don't get this interpretation. All the statement says is: "All beings can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods" or "all of existence can be put between the lowest end of the Human Domain and the Kingdom of Gods". I'm not understanding how this statement proves there's a single ladder running through the entire cosmology when it doesn't make a mention of the ladder.

Two points can have multiple ladders in between. Stack 10 ladders on top of each other with the bottom being named point x and the top being point y. Then the statement "all of existence between point x and y" would be encompassing multiple ladders.
Click to expand...
You are starting with the assumption that multiple ladders is a well established thing and isn't just some shaky headcanon assumed based on minimal evidence. In context of Lambda's memoirs she mentions a single infinite ladder and then also says she is still climbing said ladder, while the wiki's previous headcanon interpretation said that the hierarchy Lambda was climbing was of the 3rd domain, hence it internally contradicts itself and falls apart. And then we get to know the context that this ladder is the one that exists between the creator and the human domain, since Lambda talks about how witches that are on the path to become one with the creator are much ahead of her on the ladder.
 
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