When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

[ImNot4nUser]

Snip.

First of all, all that text is a pain to comprehend so I recommend using Spoiler to separate the points you try to make, making it easy to read and getting your point through easier.

Umineko current (misconceptualized) cosmology sounds weak making it look like only 1-A

This link is dead and impossible to see, you have to change "static" to vignette manually so everyone can see it, the link is this.

I don't think this thread is very reasonable since if Umineko Voyagers get downgraded doesn't that means The Extra-universal Gods (Ichiban Ushiro no Daimao) who are likely 1-A and is likely equal with current Voyagers (1-A) in which Voyagers qualify for 1-A easily so far and now it's suddenly getting downgraded as 1-B.

They're getting downgrade right now, altough in my opinion once it becomes a mod only vote it won't pass coz the shitty standards of the wiki added to the sheep mentality and influence on some mods makes it impossible.

The transcendence is infinitely different to any martial arts cultivation transcendence nor Alovenus & Ruphas Mafahl from a wild last boss infinityxinfinity multipliers of transcending each layers (Low 1-A) and also infinitely infinities different from Shallow Vernal and Kuromueina only transcending multiverse (Low 1-C).

First off, i'm just shocked to see the main points in this thread which makes Creator as low as Beyonder nor Void Shiki tier and Voyagers to the point of becoming the stomp or be stomped against 1-B Isekai protagonist. I..can't say anthing other than utterly depressing and confusing.

Yeah, but why tho? All I'm seeing is "they should" not a reason why, and no. Fanmade maps of the cosmology don't explain why. Also if it helps most verses are wanked.

With each domain having it's own hierrarchy as well, infinite or not that depends on how you depicts it since if it's not then Uminneko should be downgraded to High 1-C instead 1-B since the way it works is very similar to Mihoyo verse instead of Fujitakaverse (Instant Death) nor Masadaverse. But the fact that it's infinite and each domain area members transcends each others until it reached the top as a higher-order being.

Can you prove it tho?

TL;DR of your stuff:

You claimed that FAA was more than omnipotents, pataphysical, and what not, you claimed a lot of stuff, some scans for some stuff not related to tiers(edit: Stuff about creators, difference and what not, that's what I meant), but not a proof of the claims about the cosmology, showing images of fanmade cosmology maps and what not, may I know what your point was, WHY should they be higher as you said in here:

True Creator Tier:
Aurora "The concept of Life & Omnipotent power"=Unknown tier|At least High 1-A|Likely 0
This means Umineko is just a small part of life itself, it's not limited to Umineko but the whole 07thexpansion series that's why there's reference to Higurashi Gods and characters (Eua & Hanyuu). So, even if Aurora do get downgraded i think it's unreasonable not to put her to 1-A+ at the very lowest-end and High 1-A with highest-end. She deserve tier 0
Maria (Option 1).
Creator Witches Tier:
Featherine Augustus Aurora=1-B or 1-B+ with Avatars| 1-A or 1-A+ Creator Witch Avatar, likely High 1-A with "Creator Witch" true form, Unknown|Possibly High 1-A as Ikuko Hachijo (Amplified version of Featherine Creator Witch form that exist on Rokkenjima Prime which is outside of the Umineko gameboard)
Maria (If option 2 is wrong then move to option 2 by Maria becoming a Creator "Witch")=1-A+, likely High 1-A
The Senate/Great Court of Heaven= 1-B+, Low 1-A| 1-A|
Writers=Unknown, likely low 1-A, should be 1-A since scales to Featherine writer form (Ikuko Hachijo and Featherine Creator Witch avatar form)
Great Witch Tier:
Featherine's Friend=1-B+, likely 1-A
Lambdadelta's Fanclub=1-B+, likely 1-A
Gods Tier:
Hanyuu (Featherine Split-Aspect/Alter-Avatar)=1-B| 1-B+| 1-A | Likely 1-A+ due to being one of Featherine's aspect.|
Voyager Witch Tier (Including equals):
High:
Piece (Featherine's Creator Witch Aspect)= At least 1-A| 1-A+ scales to Featherine Augustus Aurora (Creator Witch)
ANGE-Beatrice (Witch of Resurrection)=1-B|1-B+|Low 1-A
Dlanor A. Knox=1-B|1-B+| 1-A as part of Ange world she scales to Ange
Lambdadelta (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Bernkastel (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Mid:
Lambdadelta (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Bernkastel (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Willard H. Wright=1-B|1-B+|Unknown|
Low:
Furudo Erika (EP8 Tea Party)=High 1-C|1-B

 

[Lormac_CC]

Alright just glanced through and from what I seen, nothing really talks about the main structure of the cosmology, what I have read so far are just fanfiction and personal interpretation. I know he took his time to write this so it would be good for him to just point out the main points that deals with the cosmology

 

[Teezar]

First of all, all that text is a pain to comprehend so I recommend using Spoiler to separate the points you try to make, making it easy to read and getting your point through easier.

This link is dead and impossible to see, you have to change "static" to vignette manually so everyone can see it, the link is this.

They're getting downgrade right now, altough in my opinion once it becomes a mod only vote it won't pass coz the shitty standards of the wiki added to the sheep mentality and influence on some mods makes it impossible.


Yeah, but why tho? All I'm seeing is "they should" not a reason why, and no. Fanmade maps of the cosmology don't explain why. Also if it helps most verses are wanked.

Can you prove it tho?

TL;DR of your stuff:

You claimed that FAA was more than omnipotents, pataphysical, and what not, you claimed a lot of stuff, some scans for some stuff not related to tiers(edit: Stuff about creators, difference and what not, that's what I meant), but not a proof of the claims about the cosmology, showing images of fanmade cosmology maps and what not, may I know what your point was, WHY should they be higher as you said in here:

I still don't get why people mention omnipotence to prove how powerful a character is.

 

[Darksmash]

Only in her "Aurora" form she could gain that perfection.

already loses credibility because:
1) Rewrite isn't canon
2) Aurora in rewrite literally refers to life energy of the planet or something. Came into being along with the physical big bang iirc. So lmao at being the supreme being of the cosmology. It would be blatant fanfiction to say that.

I mean if Gods and Great Witches stated to be Omnipotent, Omnipresence, and Omnisicent then Featherine is far higher than them in her true form because she's not just "seems having the power of an omnipotent being" but being the meta-concept of omnipotent itself. Take it metafictional nor pataphysical it doesn't matter because her metafictional is very true and surpass pataphysical itself, not sure if there's true pataphysical but "Aurora" should be true metafictional considering it's even above these so-called "Omnipotent,Omnipresent and Omniscient" entities.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, plus you have provided no scans for your argument.

Then how strong she is compared to other Great Witches, Creator Witches and Voyagers True Form or avatar form? With her true form, she's surely infinitely above them but not just one or two above baseline. She's like 10 times above baselines or at least able to rival The Leviathan if we use low-end scaling aka just High 1-A in her true creator form or powers. With high-end scaling then she'll just become tier 0 again and probably rivals Azathoth nor any other god-tier 0 characters but if we use low-end too but still considering Featherine tier 0 then she's more or less just like The Writer from Dc but in this case, she's a true concept. Platonic or not she's probably above that but i think not Pataphysical. She's like between Platonic and Pataphysical with low-end while being True Platonic with high-end which means above the regular Pataphysical unless there's a true Pataphysical entity that exists in which Scp-3812 is just Pataphysical not in the truest sense (Limited to transcend authors and stories only but not everything such as omnipotence itself).

Again, all of this is just personal headcanon without scans or any constructive argument. Plus you don't seem familiar with the tiering system either.

Why it comes into like that? How come Ikuko Hachijo nor FAA Creator Witch (Boundless form) is not even her true from? It's answered in here, because it's backed up by a irrefutable proof that proves both FAA & Ikuko Hachijo is still just an "Actor" instead of her real self backed up through this scan stated by Ange Ushiromiya regarding about both of them being the same being/entity. They are both Featherine but her writer form is superior to her Creator Witch form due to residing on Rokkenjima Prime World aka real world but in fictional version, in this case it's specificaly Umineko version.

This is already taken into account here.

If we're ignoring all of that statements and just go for feats then she's as low as High 1-C or HIgh 1-B which is totally downplaying Umineko since Voyagers can't be lower than 1-A and if it's downgraded to 1-B then i don't know what to say nor to feel anymore...

You say this yet still haven't provided a single argument for the tiers to stay.

Since she's a consistent character that keeps her status according to the verse she's meta-roleplaying in aka assuming her true self self-inserting into the respective role on each verse. She does represents Ryukishi himself but not just limited to the Author because then again, in visual novel Aurora means "Life or Omnipotent Power" but not stopping at that. It also explicitly said that there's should have been other explanation/wording shown in "But there's a better word for it".

The Aurora thing is headcanon as I explained above.


anyway i haven't seen any actual argument so far. Might check rest of the post later

 

[MrKerf]

There are some good points here and there, but it is har to comprehand anything because of how your argument is structured.

 

[Antvasima]

The revisions here still need to be applied by our most knowledgeable members regarding this subject.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

I open vsbw, and see a massive wall of text. I’ll read through it later and point out the pros and cons.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Even as someone who isn't knowledgeable on Umineko I know that wall of text I just read is full of shit.

 

[Tarang123]

Let's not get toxic. I mean, the person who wrote it already said they were new and was just putting out their opinion.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I know its their opinion, I respect that. It's mine that it's full of shit after reading it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you still need to make an effort to be polite. Even if he is inexperienced, he does not seem to be rude.

 

[Orioreeem]

Many Voyagers have the potential to become Creators but for some reason they fear this possibility. Their magic is comparable to the powers of a god, and each of them is potentially capable of creating entire galaxies if they are well trained.

3-B Umineko?

 

[Urshani]

3-B Umineko?

3-C Umineko.

 

[DaReaperMan]

3-B Umineko?

4-A Umineko.

 

[Urshani]

4-A Umineko.

5-B, take it or leave it

 

[Teezar]

5-B, take it or leave it

Okay, that's enough.

 

[Comicgyal]

I haven’t been quite active on the thread at all, but I’m very knowledgeable on the verse. There is going to be main arguments compiled from each side, right? I can read through all 6 pages, but I think that would make it easier for us all.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Since I'm done with work, let's decipher what was written by Amaterasu.

I'm not angry at all, i just think that this is very unreasonable to downgrade the god-tiers of Umineko using all the misconceptions that has been revolving around which stirs confusion between everyone perspective to Umineko since they don't know which is the correct truth or fabricated truth to make Umineko look so strong, so weak or just weaker/stronger than it was supposed to. Trying to downgrade magic and everything as a lie in umineko?

No one was trying to do that, I mean the cosmology represented comes from the magical side anyway.

The why don't just delete Umineko page since with that logic then it means you're agreeing with everything being made up since according to that "logic", Ange Ushiromiya dreamed up everything in Umineko and that also includes Featherine, Bernkastel and Lambdadelta too. That's clearly downplaying Umineko god-tier and high-tier characters.

Like I said, I don't think anyone was attempting to downgrade the verse based on something as generic as the whole "everything is fake" argument. So please if you can, re-read the op and the justifications for it's being downgraded.

Umineko current (misconceptualized) cosmology sounds weak making it look like only 1-A, 1-B or even High 1-C but with a more better cosmology that is shown below which makes more sense while also taking aside all of the details, shows the fact that Umineko cosmology can outmanuever nor tackling the regular dimensional tiering due to their meta-settings, meta-concepts, meta-language and any other meta-stuff they are using.

Also insert the posts maps.

-That map is so heavily outdated, we don't exactly have a current one either, so instead of tackling the map, we should provide accurate scans and explanations to go along with your conceptualization, no?
Regarding your maps, the first one kind of exceptionally provides an outline for what yuri is talking about. The second is just outright confusing, and hardly if at all is accurate to what you're explaining.

Actually I was going to try to cover everything but it just seems like a massive wall of text with no clear reasoning to keep the tiers the way they are or not. So if you could, use scans from the 07th expansion series, not Rewrite. To give a nicely structured cosmological view on why Yuri's interpretation is wrong.

 

[Orioreeem]

Actually I was going to try to cover everything but it just seems like a massive wall of text with no clear reasoning to keep the tiers the way they are or not.

I felt that. When people saw that huge wall of text everyone was expecting coherent arguments, not headcanons.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I lost brain cells here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I lost brain cells here.

Hey Yuri you okay in there?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Hey Yuri you okay in there?

Tbh it's like the fourth time I get annoyed by fanfic-ish claims today.

Like they could at least try to stay coherent

 

[Chasekilleen]

itsudemoiiyo time to unwatch the thread

 

[Antvasima]

@QuasiYuri @Ultima_Reality

Do you have any plans for when you will apply the accepted revisions here?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ultima kinda seem to not give any responses, so if needed I may apply accepted stuff with others' help.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

L1-A Umineko is real?!

 

[Rikimarox2]

Considering Ultima isnt responding, and this shit has been going on for quite a while, can't we apply the CRT now? I'm pretty sure like almost everyone here agrees with the CRT.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

The truths will be High 1-B?. Anyways, can someone give me the summary of what's accepted?


̶̶A̶l̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶r̶i̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶we̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶f̶o̶r̶m̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶a̶r̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶o̶s̶m̶o̶l̶o̶g̶y̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶i̶t̶.̶

 

[Odinson]

It's not like this is the final revision anyway. If the new series gives more information and gives us more reasons for 1-A and higher rating then we can literally make another revision. Not applying this just because new series is yet to come is a big disservice to @QuasiYuri's hard work.

 

[QuasiYuri]

The truths will be High 1-B?. Anyways, can someone give me the summary of what's accepted?


̶̶A̶l̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶s̶e̶r̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶r̶i̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶we̶ ̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶f̶o̶r̶m̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶a̶r̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶o̶s̶m̶o̶l̶o̶g̶y̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶a̶i̶t̶.̶

No. One of the last thing brought up is hpw it doesnt make sense for them to be smurf hax.

Also Ciconia isn't about Meta World and doesn't have many great feats so far in comparison to the bigger cosmology, so there's no point in waiting for something which has more chances to not give new stuff on that subject.

 

[QuasiYuri]

I'll summarize everything a bit later too.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

No. One of the last thing brought up is hpw it doesnt make sense for them to be smurf Hax.

And how strong will they be now?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Anyways, I still don't understand why they can't be smurf Hax now lol.

Truths are usually used for erasing others to the Depths of Oblivion, which still encompasses the Witch Domain, which would make them 1-B. Although I do agree that the "Third Domain" is a nonesense.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Anyways, I still don't understand why they can't be smurf Hax now lol.

Truths are usually used for erasing others to the Depths of Oblivion, which still encompasses the Witch Domain, which would make them 1-B. Although I do agree that the "Third Domain" is a nonesense.

They got sent into the DoO because that's how their world works, that's where erased/dead things end up. Similar to how people died IRL, they got sent into the afterlife. So it doesn't scale.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

They got sent into the DoO because that's how their world works, that's where erased/dead things end up. Similar to how people died IRL, they got sent into the afterlife. So it doesn't scale.

I still don't understand why that doesn't make them smurf.

 

[Antvasima]

Ultima kinda seem to not give any responses, so if needed I may apply accepted stuff with others' help.

I'll summarize everything a bit later too.

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I still don't understand why that doesn't make them smurf.

well lets say there is a heaven and a hell, and those two are a 4D world.
So when humans die they get sent to hell or heaven a 4D world
when a murderer kills someone with a knife, the knife does not become 4D cause pople who are killed are sent to Hell or heaven

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I still don't understand why that doesn't make them smurf.

Will you scale someone that kill a person to the afterlife via their fist?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

well lets say there is a heaven and a hell, and those two are a 4D world.
So when humans die they get sent to hell or heaven a 4D world
when a murderer kills someone with a knife, the knife does not become 4D cause pople who are killed are sent to Hell or heaven

Will you scale someone that kill a person to the afterlife via their fist?

Ah I see, now I understand, thanks for the help guys

 

[MrKerf]

So, my fist can BFR to the afterlife? Sick.