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When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)
- Thread starter QuasiYuri
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #483
Ryushiki07 separated them in his sentence too anyway.
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- #487
Technically speaking a single ladder layer equal two higher D gap but it doesn't truly matter.
It is all ultimately based on degrees on infinity tho. For now.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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No since there is no evidence for that
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A little confused, but would the “thing” that Featherine exists in count as a 1A transcendence to an extent?
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If I can say something here, I really think that, in cases in which one side stops arguing for a really long time, the thread shall be concluded with what you already have at the moment.
With this I mean that, yeah, maybe people has still many things to say about the topic, but we don't have to wait until they decide to say something, because that would just delay the issue further, and honestly, it's not like their opinions has some real superiority over what was already concluded when they enter into a discussion, regardless of whether they are mods or admins, or are simply visiting users. At least that's how I see it.
So, to finally conclude this, I would suggest compiling the main arguments and what was already concluded and/or declined, and lastly, see how many people so far has agreed with this, and solified their arguments to support their points. Idk, I think that could work here, and in other threads.
Also, I agree with Yuri
With this I mean that, yeah, maybe people has still many things to say about the topic, but we don't have to wait until they decide to say something, because that would just delay the issue further, and honestly, it's not like their opinions has some real superiority over what was already concluded when they enter into a discussion, regardless of whether they are mods or admins, or are simply visiting users. At least that's how I see it.
So, to finally conclude this, I would suggest compiling the main arguments and what was already concluded and/or declined, and lastly, see how many people so far has agreed with this, and solified their arguments to support their points. Idk, I think that could work here, and in other threads.
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I believe that it would be that there is a single 1B hierarchy to the Creator who would be 1A
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Demi-Fiend coming to reject more gods
Guardian_Doge
He/Him- 628
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What layers? It's all just one story made by Ikuko, and delusions made by ange.
Jokes aside, it's basically
-Infinite ladder and steps (1-B)
-"Top Layer Witches" being High 1-B for I guess being culminative
-and creators ground (1-A, I guess)
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How many layers into 1-A would the creator be then? only 1?
Quasiyurashi: When the tier 1-A's cry
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0 layer, 1-A Umi will be baseline, and low 1-A or 1-A is still debatable
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Baseline
I'm new to the community, but needless to say that i made this account mainly with the purpose of disagreeing with the Umineko downgrade thread.
I need to remind everyone that i'm not an expert (not even a beginner too) of calculating feats and stuff nor dimensional theories but i at least have a neutral mind and used many sites for the ground basis when taking a look at the cosmology of any verse nor it's specific character. Not trying to spam this thread with my rambles and complaints but i hope this actions of mine could be understood, since i'll do my best to avoid offending any side to the upmost extent of all effort i could do. I don't think this thread is very reasonable since if Umineko Voyagers get downgraded doesn't that means The Extra-universal Gods (Ichiban Ushiro no Daimao) who are likely 1-A and is likely equal with current Voyagers (1-A) in which Voyagers qualify for 1-A easily so far and now it's suddenly getting downgraded as 1-B. I'm not angry at all, i just think that this is very unreasonable to downgrade the god-tiers of Umineko using all the misconceptions that has been revolving around which stirs confusion between everyone perspective to Umineko since they don't know which is the correct truth or fabricated truth to make Umineko look so strong, so weak or just weaker/stronger than it was supposed to. Trying to downgrade magic and everything as a lie in umineko? The why don't just delete Umineko page since with that logic then it means you're agreeing with everything being made up since according to that "logic", Ange Ushiromiya dreamed up everything in Umineko and that also includes Featherine, Bernkastel and Lambdadelta too. That's clearly downplaying Umineko god-tier and high-tier characters.
Umineko current (misconceptualized) cosmology sounds weak making it look like only 1-A, 1-B or even High 1-C but with a more better cosmology that is shown below which makes more sense while also taking aside all of the details, shows the fact that Umineko cosmology can outmanuever nor tackling the regular dimensional tiering due to their meta-settings, meta-concepts, meta-language and any other meta-stuff they are using. The transcendence is infinitely different to any martial arts cultivation transcendence nor Alovenus & Ruphas Mafahl from a wild last boss infinityxinfinity multipliers of transcending each layers (Low 1-A) and also infinitely infinities different from Shallow Vernal and Kuromueina only transcending multiverse (Low 1-C). Although if Umineko still need to follow this site rules for dimensional tiering then wouldn't the high-tiers (Piece, Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, Battler, Ange, Dlanor, Willard) deserving low 1-A at least or 1-A at most? While the pseudo-god tiers (Maria & Beatrice) deserving to be 1-A. Lastly, Featherine's key should be at least High 1-A and likely tier 0.
First off, i'm just shocked to see the main points in this thread which makes Creator as low as Beyonder nor Void Shiki tier and Voyagers to the point of becoming the stomp or be stomped against 1-B Isekai protagonist. I..can't say anthing other than utterly depressing and confusing.
Featherine's reaction would be like this (before) and after the Umineko downgrade being implemented.
-Really, it can't get any worser than this? I want to retire since i'm too old for this sh#tzo of fiasco. -Featherine Downgradus Aurora
This is why all the misconceptions that's been revolving around for years regarding about who is the true creator and also the witches that reached creator tier should be cleared rather than just slapping Featherine into baseline outer tier nor the true Creator as 1-A or baseline boundless tier. Of course, as a popular character that is used in many debating..Featherine's either downplayed to hell or wanked to heaven and nobody will ever understand the meta-language and meta-roleplay that Umineko has been doing for so long with all the similarities between certain important characters from each of your works on another verse of yours, Author.
Is Featherine a Creator or just a Creator Witch?
Both is right, Featherine's totally smurfing since the reason you don't use your true self is because it'd make you become a boring person and you'll wind up dead from the boredom you created on your own. That's why she manifests as avatars and plays her role upmostly to the extent of giving an aura and appearance of a whole different entity to others.
Featherine writes every little single detail of some world (Universes) but she stated that she doesn't truly has written it all.
What Ryukishi is trying to show is the fact that she's being humble or was there other symbolic meaning?. It could be anything you wish because it depends on the extent of understanding you could execute since Featherine isn't always telling everything directly without any metaphors nor symbolism at all. This actually refers to her status as a Creator Witch, in that form she's still limited with a small portions of the remaining limitations and this also even applies in her Creator Witch True form. So, she did everything perfectly but it's not truly perfect because it's "Perfect" not Perfect. She can't be perfect in her Creator Witch form nor even her Creator Witch True form (Boundless form). Only in her "Aurora" form she could gain that perfection. She's like the strongest Great Witch to ever exist. This is just like the case of "Creators" and Creator that has been confusing many people about Umineko strongest tier. That's why i'll try to clear that misconceptions away first.
What most people including non-fans do when accepting Creator is a single entity just from a picture without connecting all the dots and reference of the strongest character, Featherine. I mean yes, she's not truly all-powerful but that's only because she's in her Creator "Witches" avatar form and her true form is just like the Creator but she still won't be as strong as her true creator form, with a cosmological/omniversal (07th Expansion series) appearance and statements that means "Life or Omnipotent power". I mean if Gods and Great Witches stated to be Omnipotent, Omnipresence, and Omnisicent then Featherine is far higher than them in her true form because she's not just "seems having the power of an omnipotent being" but being the meta-concept of omnipotent itself. Take it metafictional nor pataphysical it doesn't matter because her metafictional is very true and surpass pataphysical itself, not sure if there's true pataphysical but "Aurora" should be true metafictional considering it's even above these so-called "Omnipotent,Omnipresent and Omniscient" entities.
Then how strong she is compared to other Great Witches, Creator Witches and Voyagers True Form or avatar form? With her true form, she's surely infinitely above them but not just one or two above baseline. She's like 10 times above baselines or at least able to rival The Leviathan if we use low-end scaling aka just High 1-A in her true creator form or powers. With high-end scaling then she'll just become tier 0 again and probably rivals Azathoth nor any other god-tier 0 characters but if we use low-end too but still considering Featherine tier 0 then she's more or less just like The Writer from Dc but in this case, she's a true concept. Platonic or not she's probably above that but i think not Pataphysical. She's like between Platonic and Pataphysical with low-end while being True Platonic with high-end which means above the regular Pataphysical unless there's a true Pataphysical entity that exists in which Scp-3812 is just Pataphysical not in the truest sense (Limited to transcend authors and stories only but not everything such as omnipotence itself).
Ryukishi07th self-insert aka Featherine is trolling with everyone
Why? Because nobody could see and acknowledge the hidden fact that she's a genuine Creator not just a simple Witch with Creator powers and true from because all the Voyagers are basically looks like a Creator but without powers that reach to Creator extent.
Only Creator Witches are comparable to true creator although it'd end up similarly to how Featherine defeats Lambdadelta but probably with longer fight since their difference scales x100 layers just like the difference between Featherine Creator Witch and the Voyagers.
Is Featherine True Form is one of this three or four?
The answer is yes but the three if not four of them is not really the true version of her, it's just the true version of the gameboard nor verse they manifested to do the certain role their meta-roleplaying as. Knowingly by others, there's several version of hers and another one as her truest form although the last one is unknown and considered as theories by many people, it doesn't change the fact that there's several types of Creators.
While the rest of the cast in Umineko and even the entire cast of 07th expansion series is lower than Featherine, due to being the only character Ryukishi implied to be the strongest (In Umineko) but also subtly applied her existence to reside on another verse although with different appearance and indentity, just like Presence using his avatars (dog, kid, old man).
Let me just list it according to each tier of her keys and how they looks:
Creator Witch Avatar Form |1-A, likely 1-A+|
Creator Witch True Form |1-A, likely High 1-A|
Ikuko Hachijo |10-C physically, High 1-A, likely tier 0 since she's similar to the Writer from DC, far higher since the whole Dc or at least The Presence, Oversoul and Overvoid is encompassed within city of books|
Aurora "???/The Life/Omnipotent Power" | Unknown| High-1A, likely tier 0|
Her Aurora true form is unknown since there is no official appearance but we can safely assume it's the same as her Creator Witch form with just her whole body is the personification nor the literal appearance of the entire 07th Expansion cosmology as in the whole life (fiction) itself. Of course this doesn't means she controls other verse since it's blocked by the power of legal copyrights i mean there's no truly omnipotent beings in fiction am i right?. Not even Azathoth nor Anuamaranth is truly omnipotent.
Why it comes into like that? How come Ikuko Hachijo nor FAA Creator Witch (Boundless form) is not even her true from? It's answered in here, because it's backed up by a irrefutable proof that proves both FAA & Ikuko Hachijo is still just an "Actor" instead of her real self backed up through this scan stated by Ange Ushiromiya regarding about both of them being the same being/entity. They are both Featherine but her writer form is superior to her Creator Witch form due to residing on Rokkenjima Prime World aka real world but in fictional version, in this case it's specificaly Umineko version.
This shows that even Ikuko Hachijo which is also Featherine Augustus Aurora (FAA) is just an actor and her role is to play according to the status on the verse she's in. Since she's the strongest in Umineko and Umineko is the strongest verse works out of all Ryukishi verse works so this means she's both qualitatively and quantitatively superior in all aspects including narratives, lore and Word of God. If we're ignoring all of that statements and just go for feats then she's as low as High 1-C or HIgh 1-B which is totally downplaying Umineko since Voyagers can't be lower than 1-A and if it's downgraded to 1-B then i don't know what to say nor to feel anymore...
Since she's a consistent character that keeps her status according to the verse she's meta-roleplaying in aka assuming her true self self-inserting into the respective role on each verse. She does represents Ryukishi himself but not just limited to the Author because then again, in visual novel Aurora means "Life or Omnipotent Power" but not stopping at that. It also explicitly said that there's should have been other explanation/wording shown in "But there's a better word for it".
In which means it's not limited to the very own concept of Life or Omnipotent power itself. Doesn't this means she's absolutely above Creator Witches, Great Witches, Gods and anything else out of all Ryukishi works?
I mean, you could look at the difference between Featherine and Lambdadelta true form, in which Featherine still retains her appearance but just all-white. First off, isn't there two type of Creator? Which is the Great Witches or whatever it is that's known as Writer and also the Creator for Umineko but emphasizes encompasing all of 07thexpansion series? I mean, take a look at Ciconaia there's Seshat, the goddess of wisdom, knowledge and writing. On one of her profile section list it says, In the epilogue, Seshat heads to an underground facility to wake someone up, needing them to call back "those two." Are these a possible reincarnation of Lambdadelta and Bernkastel in another gameboard? Is Seshat related to Featherine in some ways?. Anyway, does this Creator position really referring to the Great Witches or a greater entites class?
Lambdadelta true form and Bernkastel true form is more or less likely the same maybe a minor difference since she's a cat, so she will have ears and tails but probably not, maybe it'll be a striking resemblance of her Rika self from Higurashi. Idk which translation is correct since i'm not a japanese. In the other picture i got from multiversology which somehow they downgraded Umineko faster than this revision. She clearly stated our number, so that means Voyagers true form is more or less the same as Creators do, but with lips or maybe they will also retain one of their bodyparts. Although i don't believe Featherine is just a the biggest sub-Creator aka Voyagers but she's more like the smurfing true creator, considering she's above the likes of Voyagers that already achieved true form in which similar to the Creator but is still infinitely weaker than them.
Since Featherine Creator Witch true form looks like this...
Does this means Featherine is Voyager & Great Witches Queen, or a sub-Creator while Voyagers like Lambdadelta and Bernkastel in their true form is considered as the Creator when they are destined to never become the Creator itself nor even Beatrice will ever be, since only Maria likely capable to pull a solid tier 0 Creator tier with her untapped potential? I mean they did become a Creator but in a Witch sense instead of a true creator sense. Also, the weakness of Creator, "Creators", Voyagers, Great Witches is basically the only thing that could kill them since they possess meta-immortality. Only beings above their tier able to injure them or kill them.
There's quite a few possibilities with the statement and all the misconceptions, theories nor the headcanon made by both supporters and haters, i see some supporters seems taking it harshly by pointing it directly towards the 1-B~1-A Umineko only. If Umineko downgrade i think they should just be 10-C because if they get 1-B that sounds like ignorance to the entirety of the metafictional-setting Umineko has always been using. One of the misconceptions is relating about Featherine isn't immortal due previously died before when the truth stated she dies only because of boredom and that's not die in the truest sense since she can appear back when the "boredom" gets dissolved either through her own or through others help.
Voyager=Hyperversal Witches (1-B)
Creators=Creator "Witches" & Great Witches (1-A)
True Creator=Doesn't exist or concluded to have never existed to begin with since everyone is capable of becoming one (Deleted, merged with Creator Witches & Great Witches).
^What most people wants since that's the most contributing factor for the downgrade attempt or succession if not failing.
I get that people will thinks Maria become Creator because she has the potential to become one but is this type of Creator is greater than Voyagers, Great Witches and Gods only or including being above Featherine tooin which she's the strongest chararcter within Umineko? Because it's very confusing when you can create everything alone but still regain current form when it clearly says that in Creator domain everything will be erased which is similar in the notion of Akasha and Oblivion from Marvel but wait, doesn't Sea of Oblivion acts as the Void for Umineko metafictional entities? That means Creator domain/Kingdom isn't just a mere Void but trasncending it, including the other "Creator Witches" which tries to become the True Creator but never capable to do so because they can only reach it through true potential and destiny to become one, like Maria did. Featherine tier is confusing indeed but why nobody points out her gameboard avatras (Eua & hanyuu).
Where's Eua, why Featherine is next to Hanyuu instead of her? Of course, she's gone because she is just one of the gameboard avatar of her that's already replaced by the Creator Witch Featherine on Umineko. It's just a card picture though? Stop debunking what's already a fact and all i'm trying to do is fixing all the wrong fanon and heacanon that all people believes that's been going through for years. I know this is just a card from a game. But even the artist knows the connections between the most important characters on Umineko and Higurashi. It's been rebunked due to the reference to Higurashi which stated by Bernkastel towards Featherine herself.
The explaination about Maria powers as witch of origin but there's nothing that directly points about the true Creator relation in this part nor it's an explanation about the Creator Witches, because only Maria is able to do this. Beatrice grasp of her potential is limited only to Featherine level and this is Creator Witch Featherine not the true creator version. That's why, Maria is stronger than Beatrice but she is more like Featherine successor as in true creator aka the Aurora version of Featherine.
Creator (According to Multiversology)
Creators (造物主 Zōbutsushu) are very uncommon witches of immeasurably divine powers with the power to literally create something from nothing ("create 1 from 0"). Many Voyagers have the potential to become Creators but for some reason they fear this possibility. Their magic is comparable to the powers of a god, and each of them is potentially capable of creating entire galaxies if they are well trained.
In Memoirs of the ΛΔ, Lambda describes Creators and gods as omniscient and almighty. With that they are freed from all restrictions, meaning they even lose the ground under their feet. Thus they also lose the meaning of existence, life and death and could vanish like mist.
This basically means, the Creators can make anything out of nothing but they need to lose their own existence and becomes an abstract being but they are like 100x infinitely higher than Voyagers true form nor the Great Witches and other unknown Writers. If Beatrice reach Featherine levels then she did able to reach such tier but don't take this as reaching the tier of Featherine true form, Aurora. This can be taken into two possible ways:
A. It's specifically aimed for the Creators "Witches" (Creators) only but not the true creator because the true creator doesn't need such abilities of making things from "0" into "1" when they're fully Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent.
B. It's pointing towards the requirement to become Creator & Creators/Creator "Witches" is through raw potential and fate/destiny just like Maria and Beatrice. In this case, Maria becomess the true Creator. Since nobody could ever truly become the true Creator if not blessed by the "Holy Spirit", not just Creators/Creator "Witches".
Holy Spirit is like a metaphor and it's related with religious trinity/trinitarian stuff so i rather not talk about it since people might get sensitive about it.
^This is correct but think about it again, something wrong in it? Yes and no. Yes, because if that's how things were done then Featherine and Beatrice wouldn't be regarded as a Creator to begin with since one of them is like a smurf Creator while the other will become as strong as the other one but without weakness and no true form which means either slightly stronger or weaker since this means Beatrice becomes powerful like Featherine but it's unknown whether many of her limitations is lifted or not in exchange for gaining true form. Same case as Maria but Maria is even more crazier since she's the only one able to become an entity that perfectly suits the meaning of a Creator above.
So, it's really confusing if we follow that meaning then not even Featherine and Beatrice is a Creator but even if we acknowledge Featherine and true potential Beatrice as a Creator. Only Beatrice the one that's still don't have enough narrative, statements and WoG aside from feats to prove that she's a bonafide Creator instead of just a Witch that becomes a Creator just like Maria just because having the potential to do so. Oh wait! Doesn't this debunks the argument of Creator being only 1-A? Since Featherine is a smurfing creator and never used her true creator form in which the platonic concept of "Omnipotent power and Life" is equal to the likes of Maria but Maria herself becomes Creator which the previous known tier is 0. Not sure about that but since it's downgraded to 1-A so Featherine, Maria and Beatrice are all equal?. First off, that's really stupid and funny at the same time.
Why? Because although Maria and Beatrice won't possess weakness like Featherine did.
I know it's an official meaning from Umineko but then again WoG says the otherwise although still keeping the word related to the main cannon without ruining the "Creator" class he made since Featherine aka Aurora true form is broken so he doesn't used that concept and use Featherine as the Creator Witch only.
Memories=Weakness?
That's a yes and no depeding on how you interpret it. Some says it'll make her lost all memories and abilities, some says it reduces a massive portion of her powers and some says it will change her personalities. Most of them are right but the power reduction isn't really applied as shown the gameboard version of Featherine within Higurashi isn't losing any of her powers at all, just changing her appearance and her personality more or less stays intact. So, it's already debunked by Featherine in her Higurashi gameboard avatar (Eua) head device destroyed by Hanyuu.
This means that device is used for reincarnation and connection between each worlds and her true self. If she doesn't have it then she won't able to have any connection to her true self and more or less became Hanyuu, which is like a version of her that lost her previous appearance and personality.
Does Featherine really need to worry about her one and only weakness? (Narrative + Dialogues+ Feats + References + Cosmology + Translates + Disperse hiperbolic States+Meanings+Script+Others Compositions) She can reach Omnipotence without disrespecting the hierrarcy functionality of the verse for the Metafictional cosmology proposals.
Aurora is a woman? Is it a concept? That's up to what the viewers to decide but you can think how Aurora works is very similar to Law of Indentity, by itself assuming it's own gender as a female.
About Featherine being a creator and the strongest characters:
Question 1: Since Featherine has the ability to make what she writes come true, is it feasible to interpret that the entire story of "Ep 08" was written by Featherine?
A: That's one way of thinking about it. She's the closest thing to a god in that world, the author of the world. So there is no doubt that she is the strongest of all the characters. At the same time, it's pretty embarrassing. I'm embarrassed when I put myself in my work and say, "I'm so strong~!" (laughs). It's like a fantasy novel with the author as the strongest protagonist.
Counter Question 1:
The bolded one isn't explicitly pointing towards all of her forms it's just her Creator Witch avatar, Creator Witch true form and her Ikuko Hachijo form which doesn't including her Aurora true form. That's why Bernkastel doesn't calls Aurora but Auaurora instead, because it's not just a simple reference of Higurashi connection with Umineko but also to imply a hidden meaning that both FAA and Ikuko is not the true self since it's still just an actor.
Lambdadelta vs Featherine scene interpretation
Question 2: When you look at it from that perspective, the fight between Fetherine and Lambdadelta is interesting, isn't it? (laughs)
A: I wanted to make it so that I would defeat Lambda, but I didn't know how to do it, so I just wrote that I defeated her. This scene strangely turned out to be a bit like "Sho●o" (laughs). In reality, it became a subjective question of "Who is writing that world? (laughs). I don't think there are many people who think that far ahead when reading.
No Counter since there's more than one writer, creators "witches" but only one true creator which is Featherine herself.
Auau type of existence
Question 3: What kind of existence is Featherine anyway?
A: In the tips of Ep6, it was said that Featherine "constantly repeats a cycle of life and death." When Featherine herself was a piece, she realized that she was a character being written by someone, and what she had believed to be free will was being written by someone else. That's why she died. But she came back as a writer herself and found true free will by drawing herself in her own work, without shame or embarrassment. She may now be in a world of relay manga. She may exist in a world where she writes her own characters, but other characters are written by several writers.
Counter Question 3: Featherine downgrade to 1-B? No, that's not really Featherine herself but more like an aspect of her in other gameboard along with Hanyuu (If Hanyuu is not an aspect of Featherine then it's either Oyashiro-sama or just a character that were previously connected with Higurashi Gods but actually able to become one herself, a God. This is just like the two well known examples and that is Marvel TOAA-TOBA and The Presence-"God" (Killed by Gabriel)-Dark Presence (Killed by Lucifer). In this, her gameboard avatar is "defeated" by Hanyuu.
Does this mean Featherine is as weak as a voyager or a witch during her past? Maybe you can put it like that since she phrases it like there is someone/something of a higher power than even herself. But, that's totally wrong.
Why? Because it's easier to understand your subjects
In that picture, Featherine aspect (Auau/Eua) states "Those who hold dominion over us are truly cold of heart". I'll explain more about it later but first i want to tell that she's taking her current meta-roleplay aka as the antagonist of Higurashi very devotedly. To the point of making us think that she's completely a whole different entity that is independently exist instead of being Featherine herself. Which Featherine succeded to do so because not many people understand the very concept of Umineko and Higurashi connection plus how Ryukishi 07th works.
Observing and understanding it slowloy and deeply, she isn't directly adressing Satoko nor Satoko that she invited to her world. She’s indirectly adressing Vier, LD3105, and Mitsuyo. Referencing that it took hundreds of millions of loops for Eua and Satoko to meet 'once more’. Which took even far more longer than the 100 year looping between Hanyuu-Satoko and Rika. So, there's also connections between Umineko and Ciconia. Because that's how Ryukishi07th works, making the most important characters to play lots of different roles in each of his own works that is from another verse besides Umineko. So, being the true creator is an easy task for Featherine because she is Aurora itself a concept that took form of the Greatest Witch among Great Witch and becoming the Creator Witch.
Featherine (Left), Eua (Middle) and Seshat (Right).
^This picture shows all of them are directly related and responsbile to writing stories and they are connected with Featherine whether it's mildly vague, bigger or even not at all since the circumstances doesn't matter because that's how Ryukishi write his strongest characters nor any other character having other roles in another verse of his own works. So, the connection between Featherine and Eua is clearly proved to be true. In this case, Eua is either Featherine aspects or just one of the many gameboard avatar she has and actually used at least once. If Featherine is eua then with that kind of power, she should have lost to the Voyager (In this case Lambdadeta) she fought since Eua power is more or less just 1-B with low-end scaling and 1-B+ with high-end scaling.
Source: https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Similar_Characters
List of Similar Characters:
Ryukishi07’s works often feature characters that are similar to those in his previous works, either through appearance, similar names, or personalities. He likens his characters to actors, explaining that they look the same because it's one person playing different roles.[1]
This page lists the characters that meet at least one, preferably more, of the following criteria and groups them together based on their “original” version:
they have a similar if not identical appearance;
their name has some connection with a prior character's name, either through puns or similar readings/pronunciations;
they have the same voice actors;
they have a dynamic with another character that is themselves a lookalike of another character.
In general, characters need to meet at least two of the above to be listed, unless they have a near-identical appearance.
Alright this means, Featherine is capable of playing any role and as the strongest of Umineko won't it make sense if she's the true creator since she's referenced on Higurashi and she's probably Seshat in Ciconia since there's this statement. In the epilogue, Seshat heads to an underground facility to wake someone up, needing them to call back "those two." I'm not knowledgeable on Ciconia so i don't know who Seshat refers to but can't you all connect the dots?
Fear of the Voyagers becoming a creator, and why Maria is the promised witch to being the strongest creator
Question 4: Is that where the Voyager's fear of becoming a Creator comes from?
A: That's right. Manga is interesting when you read it, but eventually, you get tired of reading it. But if you are given a blank notebook and write in it yourself, you can play with it endlessly, which is much more interesting than reading manga. However, if you run out of ideas or get bored with the act of drawing, it's over. Moreover, you (the artist) will not be able to create characters or developments that you do not want. A Creator is a boring creature because they can create anything they want.
Question 5: ---You won't be able to read interesting stories made by others
A: It's easier to not be a creator, just like it's easier to sit in front of the TV and watch more and more stories. Humans are the most comfortable because they don't even know they are characters in someone else's work, and they believe they are acting of their own free will. On the other hand, Bern, Lambda, and the rest of the hierarchy can intervene in the story by changing the channel at will and occasionally giving orders to the scenario writer. However, they pretend not to know this fact until the very last minute, because it would change the story. I think that's what killed Featherine. It's fun to fantasize in a blank notebook, but it's very hard to keep writing stories in it, so the witch dies. Witches are those who have begun to realize that they are someone else's creation, and they are in a position to view different creations. The reason why Maria was called "the Witch of Origins" is because she can expand her ideas and world from scratch without ever getting bored.
Therefore, Featherine is the strongest character in the world of Umineko, and is a representation of Ryukishi himself, as the creator of the Work, and she writes the script for all episodes, being in the position of a creator (writer) of those episodes that are authored by Hachijo Tohya (herself outside the tales, in the real world). Featherine doesn’t have the same disease that affects the witch domain, she has the disease (boredom) of not knowing what to write, and maria is fated to be the strongest creator because she will never get bored in "drawing" the world
Infinite Hierchrcial Abyss:
The cosmology When They Cry has infinite higher worlds, being analogued to an infinite ladder that has infinite steps (being called "endeavors") that leads to the bottomless abyss, or rather the infinite hierarchical abyss (a similar concept to that of Ein Sof). The Witches are higher existences than human and the higher they (and other higher beings) walk on that ladder and the more they seek freedom and power, the more they freed from restrictions proportionally.
Humans are the lowest existences on that hierarchy, tied and tossed around by fate and at the lowest "endeavors". In the "middle" are the Witches, creators of fate and its players, they accepted limitations and restrictions so that they will not lose the "ground" on their foot (with Lambdadelta somewhere on that "middle"). The ultimate beings that stand at the top (Brahman) of the infinite hierarchical abyss are the Creator, the Gods and Creator Witches, who freed from infinity and all restrictions, they boundless and had survived even unboundness itself, they are absolute, omnipotent, omniscient, creators and rulers of all Creation.
According to the game, witches are human beings who gain power exceeding normal humans and can use them at will. The Witches are divided into three tiers:
Territory Lords: Witch/Sorcerer who are creators and rulers of a territory, as such when they stop thinking their territory will vanish, literally. But when they think again, it will simply be created again, this process can be repeated infinitely and it is still even less breathing to them. The Territory Lords are the gods of their Territory, being able to control anything in it, even the narrative.
Voyagers: Witches/Sorcerers who are far superior to Territory Lords, they can leave their Territories and travel beyond it, to the infinite Sea of Fragments and worlds higher than it. For them, concepts such as fate can be visualized and manipulated at will (insignificant as weaker beings can do much more impressive thing than this). The Voyagers are commonly known as being one step below Creators.
Creators:They are the pinnacle of witches, Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. To Witches, they are no different than Gods. But being a Creator has a high price, as the Witch who attains this level would lose every restriction, even the 'self', and become part of The Creator. Featherine Augustus Aurora is the only known Witch to ever touch the Realm of The Creator and become one, and even her isn't fully a Creator..
^This list, all of them are correct but the Creator part is slightly wrong. The correct wording would be like the one i writed below with minor to medium changes plus the branching creator due to the metafictional setting.
Creator Witches (Creators): They are the last step a Witch could achieve. They are all-powerful but still limited by some restrictions shown by their one weakness but they can also possess no weakness at all if they have the potential to become one without retaining a single weakness. Which can be seen in Featherine Creator Witch avatar nor True form that retains her weakness and Maria naive personality will also be retained even though one day she might be able to reach the tier of a Creator Witches. The Witches who reached this tier will lost all the remaining restrictions they still currently have. They will be formless as an abstrat being just like the Voyagers but due to some reasons, only those who achieved this tier using their true potential/untapped potentials is capable of retaining their own appearance, personality and even will. This traits were already shown by Beatrice and Maria.
True Creator: It is not clearly known nor widely recognized by others but all the reference proved Featherine is the True Creator and the strongest Umineko character. She become nigh-omnipotent for the sake of curing her boredom as the True Creator. Although Featherine stated to be the most powerful, she still has other aspects that rivals her such as the Holy Spirit in which Maria true potential comes from as her name comes from Maria, the mother of a certain religion God.
The fact Featherine is the first one to reach Creator Domain implies that she's the only one who able to turn herself into a smurf by lowering herself to the tier of a "Creator Witches" thus she's directly responsible for the creation of the class/rank on 07th Expansion series. So, her power extent of reach is not limited just in Umineko but the whole 07th Expansion series. She is the only one to reach Creator Domain, technically there's no other Creator besides her unless for the future Creator but that's just Creator Witch not a True Creator that is capable of governing the whole hierrarcy and encompassing the whole 07th Expansion verse.
Which means:
True Creator/Life & Omnipotent Power (Featherine)>Creator Aspects>Great Witch (Featherine's tier, possibly just another name for Creator Witches)=Creator "Witches"/Sub-True Creator>Voyager=Great Witch (Lower tier)>Gods (Creator Lower gameboard avatars)=Game Master/Territory Lords>Witches>Pieces>Apprentice Witches>Humans
True Creator/Life & Omnipotent Power At least 1-A+ (Low-end ), likely High 1-A (High-end) , 0 (Old standards)
Creators Witches/"Creators" At least High 1-B, likely 1-A
Voyagers 1-B, likely 1-B+
I don't have any problems with 98% Umineko character becoming 1-B or 1-B+ but i don't think Voyagers deserved to be put at baseline 1-B since they are sub-Creator that's infinitely weaker but not in term of conceptual nor dimension, instead they're only weaker because they are still restricted by their limitations. Their true form already shows they are sub-Creator which is Voyagers and Great Witches that's not really much different from one another, especially the fact there's an aspect of erasing authority from Featherine that is turned into an entity which is Piece, one of the Voyagers and i think she should be the only one being Low 1-A at least if Bern and Lambda stays 1-B and 1-A at most.
There's actually 2 types or even 3 of Creators since Umineko "True Creator" expands to Higurashi with all the hints of Eua=Featherine.
1. Creator (Which gained only by arriving into Creator Domain or directly stated able to become one by WoG. Only if a witch owns what it needs to become one, the only known one is thoruhg having connection with the Holy Spirit, an aspect of Creator (True Creator). This is the original creator that smurfed itself/herself maybe not just a smurf but a more like a nerf although to an unkown extent since it's not stated to be permanent/non-permanent. The only information is through metaphors and connections which Featherine has with one of the Higurashi Gods and and a direct aspect of Featherine which is Eua)
2. Creator "Witches"/Creators (Which is basically what every Witch that is able to ascend into one as they progress on the infinite ladder journey. The are also case of those who can give birth to 0 and 1 able to become a Creator. Voyager true form looks like this but they aren't nowhere as strong as Creator Witches since Lambdadelta couldn't even defeat Featherine Creator Witch avatar. All Creator Witches and Gods is also like the Creaator itself who freed from infinity and all restrictions, they boundless and had survived even unboundness itself, they are absolute, omnipotent, omniscient, creators and rulers of all Creation. But them ain difference is their power, with The True Creator being the strongest (Featherine), while the Creator Witches (Beatrice) being the second and Gods being the third or last as the weakest tier from the Creator category. We can sum up the Great Witches as Creator Witches too since they are fundamentally the same.
3.Gods/Aspect of "Creator" (They are either a portion of the Creator or Creator Witches powers, if they are born from Creator Witches then their power are lower than them if they directly made from Creator itself then their power will be same as Creator Witch Featherine which should be equal to other potential Creator Witch but is still above them due to being a smurf. So their power depends on their creator and they will always scale lower than their creator if their creator isn't the true creator. Normally, Gods are only 1-B to 1-A and the strongest of them all are more like representing other authors/writers writing stories with Featherine being the leader and true creator that superseds the entire hierarcy of ladders an class.)
I'm just saying i think this should be a better and reasonable tiering i could sum up which will be like this:
True Creator Tier:
Aurora "The concept of Life & Omnipotent power"=Unknown tier|At least High 1-A|Likely 0
This means Umineko is just a small part of life itself, it's not limited to Umineko but the whole 07thexpansion series that's why there's reference to Higurashi Gods and characters (Eua & Hanyuu). So, even if Aurora do get downgraded i think it's unreasonable not to put her to 1-A+ at the very lowest-end and High 1-A with highest-end. She deserve tier 0
Maria (Option 1).
Creator Witches Tier:
Featherine Augustus Aurora=1-B or 1-B+ with Avatars| 1-A or 1-A+ Creator Witch Avatar, likely High 1-A with "Creator Witch" true form, Unknown|Possibly High 1-A as Ikuko Hachijo (Amplified version of Featherine Creator Witch form that exist on Rokkenjima Prime which is outside of the Umineko gameboard)
Maria (If option 2 is wrong then move to option 2 by Maria becoming a Creator "Witch")=1-A+, likely High 1-A
The Senate/Great Court of Heaven= 1-B+, Low 1-A| 1-A|
Writers=Unknown, likely low 1-A, should be 1-A since scales to Featherine writer form (Ikuko Hachijo and Featherine Creator Witch avatar form)
Great Witch Tier:
Featherine's Friend=1-B+, likely 1-A
Lambdadelta's Fanclub=1-B+, likely 1-A
Gods Tier:
Hanyuu (Featherine Split-Aspect/Alter-Avatar)=1-B| 1-B+| 1-A | Likely 1-A+ due to being one of Featherine's aspect.|
Voyager Witch Tier (Including equals):
High:
Piece (Featherine's Creator Witch Aspect)= At least 1-A| 1-A+ scales to Featherine Augustus Aurora (Creator Witch)
ANGE-Beatrice (Witch of Resurrection)=1-B|1-B+|Low 1-A
Dlanor A. Knox=1-B|1-B+| 1-A as part of Ange world she scales to Ange
Lambdadelta (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Bernkastel (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Mid:
Lambdadelta (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Bernkastel (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Willard H. Wright=1-B|1-B+|Unknown|
Low:
Furudo Erika (EP8 Tea Party)=High 1-C|1-B
^That's just for the characters, as for the cosmology i think we should fix it to a smaller and the more correct one, since all of them follows the same rules of the infinite ladder. With each domain having it's own hierrarchy as well, infinite or not that depends on how you depicts it since if it's not then Uminneko should be downgraded to High 1-C instead 1-B since the way it works is very similar to Mihoyo verse instead of Fujitakaverse (Instant Death) nor Masadaverse. But the fact that it's infinite and each domain area members transcends each others until it reached the top as a higher-order being.
List of Umineko Cosmology
The Infinite Hierarchical Ladder:
1. Human Domain: At least High 1-C (Low-end), 1-B (High-end)
2. Witch Domain: 1-B, likely 1-B+
3. Featherine's Domain: 1-A, likely High 1-A
4. Sea of Oblivion: Unknown, likely High 1-A
5. 3rd Domain (Optional): 1-A+ (Low-end), High 1-A (High-end)
6. Creator's Domain: High 1-A, likely 0 (High-end)
Downgrade result
99% layers Hyper and 1% layer is Outer= So, there is just one infinite D layer without any metafictional stuff which is why they are only at least 1-B and at most High 1-B while the highest one like Creator Domain is just baseline 1-A. No more metafictional, meta-language, meta role-play aspects anymore since it's downgraded to Hyperverse level only. Only Featherine, Beatrice and Maria considered as Metafictional characters (1-A) while the rest is just Hyperversal tier?
1. Human Domain: 1-C
2. Witch Domain: 1-C
3. 3rd Domain (CoB, Featherine's Domain, etc): 1-B
4. Creator's Domain: 1-A
Creators=1-A (Featherine, Maria, Beatrice)
Voyagers=1-B (Piece, Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, Santa Claus)
The possibilities of a human becoming a God, although they will lose their mind either literally or just metaphorical. It's basically the same case as the witches becoming a Creator Witches or even the literal Creator class itself and also Voyagers becoming a metaphysical abstract being similar to Creator but still infinitely lower than the Creator and also Creator Witches. Basically Creator Witches is like Sub-Creator+ (1-A, likely 1-A+) while Voyagers is like Sub-Creator. (Low 1-A, likely 1-A). With True Creator superseds every other class and even the entire hierarcies of every domains on Umineko nor any other verse coming from Ryukishi works that's contained within City of Books, as the Creator class they are the omnipotent being but so far there's only one Creator exists and known which is none other than Featherine herself in which making her deserving at least for a 1-A+ (Low-end), High 1-A (High-end), likely tier 0 as the literal Metafictional Concept of an Omnipotent concept/entity that represents the entire 07thexpansion verse cosmology including all of the concepts and powers.
This is invalid because when Featherine's saying about there's so much more still above me is like Presence referring to the external forces. Since Featherine is referring to the real world authors not simply referring to the true creator since she's the creator itself not just a mere creator witch that endless witch like Beatrice can achieve. Only Maria could become like her because her connection with the Holy Spirit just like Spectre connection with the Oversoul nor Lucifer Morningstar being one of The Presence aspects.
Voyagers are capable of becoming a Creator but not a literal Creator, they'll be like Beatrice at most with some able to retain their appearance just like Bernkastel having true form with no difference as her avatar form, while the rest of them will become similar to Creators in term of appearance like Lambdadelta. This effectively means, Voyagers is basically just an extremely powerful, old and experienced Witches aka Veteran Witches but to begin with they never had the potential to become a Creator Class but limited to Creator Witches class-title only.
With the explanation above the correct tiering should be like this list below:
God-tier Characters/Almighty Beings-
Featherine (True Creator)>=Maria (Future Creator/Featherine's True Successor)>=Beatrice (Future Creator Witch/Featherine's "Successor") & Gods
God-tier Class-Titles:
True Creator (Aurora "Life/Omnipotent Power")>Great Witches (High-end)=Creator Witches (True Form)>=Creator Witch (Avatar Form)=Great Witches (Low-end)>Voyagers (True Form)>Voyagers (Avatar Form)
Umine is one of the fewest avaiable story from visual novel and anime that is metafictional related aside from the known few ones (Ichiban Ushiro no Diamoau, I/O). This is why metafictional combined with dimensions becomes purely useless and terms like omnipotent is balancedly used in any settings, whether fantasy, science or even a mix of both. The main problem is higher dimensional tiering becomes flawed when tiering characters above the entire verse setting nor the whole verse aspects. Umineko are the most relevant metafictional verse compared to any other metafictional verse which points out clearly their relevance towards some reference to religion, history and fantasy partially mixed with science. If people want to downgrade a big metafictional verse like Umineko then try to understand more about the meta-settings, meta-language, meta-metaphors, and anything else in Umineko.
I need to remind everyone that i'm not an expert (not even a beginner too) of calculating feats and stuff nor dimensional theories but i at least have a neutral mind and used many sites for the ground basis when taking a look at the cosmology of any verse nor it's specific character. Not trying to spam this thread with my rambles and complaints but i hope this actions of mine could be understood, since i'll do my best to avoid offending any side to the upmost extent of all effort i could do. I don't think this thread is very reasonable since if Umineko Voyagers get downgraded doesn't that means The Extra-universal Gods (Ichiban Ushiro no Daimao) who are likely 1-A and is likely equal with current Voyagers (1-A) in which Voyagers qualify for 1-A easily so far and now it's suddenly getting downgraded as 1-B. I'm not angry at all, i just think that this is very unreasonable to downgrade the god-tiers of Umineko using all the misconceptions that has been revolving around which stirs confusion between everyone perspective to Umineko since they don't know which is the correct truth or fabricated truth to make Umineko look so strong, so weak or just weaker/stronger than it was supposed to. Trying to downgrade magic and everything as a lie in umineko? The why don't just delete Umineko page since with that logic then it means you're agreeing with everything being made up since according to that "logic", Ange Ushiromiya dreamed up everything in Umineko and that also includes Featherine, Bernkastel and Lambdadelta too. That's clearly downplaying Umineko god-tier and high-tier characters.
Umineko current (misconceptualized) cosmology sounds weak making it look like only 1-A, 1-B or even High 1-C but with a more better cosmology that is shown below which makes more sense while also taking aside all of the details, shows the fact that Umineko cosmology can outmanuever nor tackling the regular dimensional tiering due to their meta-settings, meta-concepts, meta-language and any other meta-stuff they are using. The transcendence is infinitely different to any martial arts cultivation transcendence nor Alovenus & Ruphas Mafahl from a wild last boss infinityxinfinity multipliers of transcending each layers (Low 1-A) and also infinitely infinities different from Shallow Vernal and Kuromueina only transcending multiverse (Low 1-C). Although if Umineko still need to follow this site rules for dimensional tiering then wouldn't the high-tiers (Piece, Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, Battler, Ange, Dlanor, Willard) deserving low 1-A at least or 1-A at most? While the pseudo-god tiers (Maria & Beatrice) deserving to be 1-A. Lastly, Featherine's key should be at least High 1-A and likely tier 0.
First off, i'm just shocked to see the main points in this thread which makes Creator as low as Beyonder nor Void Shiki tier and Voyagers to the point of becoming the stomp or be stomped against 1-B Isekai protagonist. I..can't say anthing other than utterly depressing and confusing.
Featherine's reaction would be like this (before) and after the Umineko downgrade being implemented.
-Really, it can't get any worser than this? I want to retire since i'm too old for this sh#tzo of fiasco. -Featherine Downgradus Aurora
This is why all the misconceptions that's been revolving around for years regarding about who is the true creator and also the witches that reached creator tier should be cleared rather than just slapping Featherine into baseline outer tier nor the true Creator as 1-A or baseline boundless tier. Of course, as a popular character that is used in many debating..Featherine's either downplayed to hell or wanked to heaven and nobody will ever understand the meta-language and meta-roleplay that Umineko has been doing for so long with all the similarities between certain important characters from each of your works on another verse of yours, Author.
Is Featherine a Creator or just a Creator Witch?
Both is right, Featherine's totally smurfing since the reason you don't use your true self is because it'd make you become a boring person and you'll wind up dead from the boredom you created on your own. That's why she manifests as avatars and plays her role upmostly to the extent of giving an aura and appearance of a whole different entity to others.
Featherine writes every little single detail of some world (Universes) but she stated that she doesn't truly has written it all.
What Ryukishi is trying to show is the fact that she's being humble or was there other symbolic meaning?. It could be anything you wish because it depends on the extent of understanding you could execute since Featherine isn't always telling everything directly without any metaphors nor symbolism at all. This actually refers to her status as a Creator Witch, in that form she's still limited with a small portions of the remaining limitations and this also even applies in her Creator Witch True form. So, she did everything perfectly but it's not truly perfect because it's "Perfect" not Perfect. She can't be perfect in her Creator Witch form nor even her Creator Witch True form (Boundless form). Only in her "Aurora" form she could gain that perfection. She's like the strongest Great Witch to ever exist. This is just like the case of "Creators" and Creator that has been confusing many people about Umineko strongest tier. That's why i'll try to clear that misconceptions away first.
What most people including non-fans do when accepting Creator is a single entity just from a picture without connecting all the dots and reference of the strongest character, Featherine. I mean yes, she's not truly all-powerful but that's only because she's in her Creator "Witches" avatar form and her true form is just like the Creator but she still won't be as strong as her true creator form, with a cosmological/omniversal (07th Expansion series) appearance and statements that means "Life or Omnipotent power". I mean if Gods and Great Witches stated to be Omnipotent, Omnipresence, and Omnisicent then Featherine is far higher than them in her true form because she's not just "seems having the power of an omnipotent being" but being the meta-concept of omnipotent itself. Take it metafictional nor pataphysical it doesn't matter because her metafictional is very true and surpass pataphysical itself, not sure if there's true pataphysical but "Aurora" should be true metafictional considering it's even above these so-called "Omnipotent,Omnipresent and Omniscient" entities.
Then how strong she is compared to other Great Witches, Creator Witches and Voyagers True Form or avatar form? With her true form, she's surely infinitely above them but not just one or two above baseline. She's like 10 times above baselines or at least able to rival The Leviathan if we use low-end scaling aka just High 1-A in her true creator form or powers. With high-end scaling then she'll just become tier 0 again and probably rivals Azathoth nor any other god-tier 0 characters but if we use low-end too but still considering Featherine tier 0 then she's more or less just like The Writer from Dc but in this case, she's a true concept. Platonic or not she's probably above that but i think not Pataphysical. She's like between Platonic and Pataphysical with low-end while being True Platonic with high-end which means above the regular Pataphysical unless there's a true Pataphysical entity that exists in which Scp-3812 is just Pataphysical not in the truest sense (Limited to transcend authors and stories only but not everything such as omnipotence itself).
Ryukishi07th self-insert aka Featherine is trolling with everyone
Why? Because nobody could see and acknowledge the hidden fact that she's a genuine Creator not just a simple Witch with Creator powers and true from because all the Voyagers are basically looks like a Creator but without powers that reach to Creator extent.
Only Creator Witches are comparable to true creator although it'd end up similarly to how Featherine defeats Lambdadelta but probably with longer fight since their difference scales x100 layers just like the difference between Featherine Creator Witch and the Voyagers.
Is Featherine True Form is one of this three or four?
The answer is yes but the three if not four of them is not really the true version of her, it's just the true version of the gameboard nor verse they manifested to do the certain role their meta-roleplaying as. Knowingly by others, there's several version of hers and another one as her truest form although the last one is unknown and considered as theories by many people, it doesn't change the fact that there's several types of Creators.
While the rest of the cast in Umineko and even the entire cast of 07th expansion series is lower than Featherine, due to being the only character Ryukishi implied to be the strongest (In Umineko) but also subtly applied her existence to reside on another verse although with different appearance and indentity, just like Presence using his avatars (dog, kid, old man).
Let me just list it according to each tier of her keys and how they looks:
Creator Witch Avatar Form |1-A, likely 1-A+|
Creator Witch True Form |1-A, likely High 1-A|
Ikuko Hachijo |10-C physically, High 1-A, likely tier 0 since she's similar to the Writer from DC, far higher since the whole Dc or at least The Presence, Oversoul and Overvoid is encompassed within city of books|
Aurora "???/The Life/Omnipotent Power" | Unknown| High-1A, likely tier 0|
Her Aurora true form is unknown since there is no official appearance but we can safely assume it's the same as her Creator Witch form with just her whole body is the personification nor the literal appearance of the entire 07th Expansion cosmology as in the whole life (fiction) itself. Of course this doesn't means she controls other verse since it's blocked by the power of legal copyrights i mean there's no truly omnipotent beings in fiction am i right?. Not even Azathoth nor Anuamaranth is truly omnipotent.
Why it comes into like that? How come Ikuko Hachijo nor FAA Creator Witch (Boundless form) is not even her true from? It's answered in here, because it's backed up by a irrefutable proof that proves both FAA & Ikuko Hachijo is still just an "Actor" instead of her real self backed up through this scan stated by Ange Ushiromiya regarding about both of them being the same being/entity. They are both Featherine but her writer form is superior to her Creator Witch form due to residing on Rokkenjima Prime World aka real world but in fictional version, in this case it's specificaly Umineko version.
This shows that even Ikuko Hachijo which is also Featherine Augustus Aurora (FAA) is just an actor and her role is to play according to the status on the verse she's in. Since she's the strongest in Umineko and Umineko is the strongest verse works out of all Ryukishi verse works so this means she's both qualitatively and quantitatively superior in all aspects including narratives, lore and Word of God. If we're ignoring all of that statements and just go for feats then she's as low as High 1-C or HIgh 1-B which is totally downplaying Umineko since Voyagers can't be lower than 1-A and if it's downgraded to 1-B then i don't know what to say nor to feel anymore...
Since she's a consistent character that keeps her status according to the verse she's meta-roleplaying in aka assuming her true self self-inserting into the respective role on each verse. She does represents Ryukishi himself but not just limited to the Author because then again, in visual novel Aurora means "Life or Omnipotent Power" but not stopping at that. It also explicitly said that there's should have been other explanation/wording shown in "But there's a better word for it".
In which means it's not limited to the very own concept of Life or Omnipotent power itself. Doesn't this means she's absolutely above Creator Witches, Great Witches, Gods and anything else out of all Ryukishi works?
I mean, you could look at the difference between Featherine and Lambdadelta true form, in which Featherine still retains her appearance but just all-white. First off, isn't there two type of Creator? Which is the Great Witches or whatever it is that's known as Writer and also the Creator for Umineko but emphasizes encompasing all of 07thexpansion series? I mean, take a look at Ciconaia there's Seshat, the goddess of wisdom, knowledge and writing. On one of her profile section list it says, In the epilogue, Seshat heads to an underground facility to wake someone up, needing them to call back "those two." Are these a possible reincarnation of Lambdadelta and Bernkastel in another gameboard? Is Seshat related to Featherine in some ways?. Anyway, does this Creator position really referring to the Great Witches or a greater entites class?
Lambdadelta true form and Bernkastel true form is more or less likely the same maybe a minor difference since she's a cat, so she will have ears and tails but probably not, maybe it'll be a striking resemblance of her Rika self from Higurashi. Idk which translation is correct since i'm not a japanese. In the other picture i got from multiversology which somehow they downgraded Umineko faster than this revision. She clearly stated our number, so that means Voyagers true form is more or less the same as Creators do, but with lips or maybe they will also retain one of their bodyparts. Although i don't believe Featherine is just a the biggest sub-Creator aka Voyagers but she's more like the smurfing true creator, considering she's above the likes of Voyagers that already achieved true form in which similar to the Creator but is still infinitely weaker than them.
Since Featherine Creator Witch true form looks like this...
Does this means Featherine is Voyager & Great Witches Queen, or a sub-Creator while Voyagers like Lambdadelta and Bernkastel in their true form is considered as the Creator when they are destined to never become the Creator itself nor even Beatrice will ever be, since only Maria likely capable to pull a solid tier 0 Creator tier with her untapped potential? I mean they did become a Creator but in a Witch sense instead of a true creator sense. Also, the weakness of Creator, "Creators", Voyagers, Great Witches is basically the only thing that could kill them since they possess meta-immortality. Only beings above their tier able to injure them or kill them.
There's quite a few possibilities with the statement and all the misconceptions, theories nor the headcanon made by both supporters and haters, i see some supporters seems taking it harshly by pointing it directly towards the 1-B~1-A Umineko only. If Umineko downgrade i think they should just be 10-C because if they get 1-B that sounds like ignorance to the entirety of the metafictional-setting Umineko has always been using. One of the misconceptions is relating about Featherine isn't immortal due previously died before when the truth stated she dies only because of boredom and that's not die in the truest sense since she can appear back when the "boredom" gets dissolved either through her own or through others help.
Voyager=Hyperversal Witches (1-B)
Creators=Creator "Witches" & Great Witches (1-A)
True Creator=Doesn't exist or concluded to have never existed to begin with since everyone is capable of becoming one (Deleted, merged with Creator Witches & Great Witches).
^What most people wants since that's the most contributing factor for the downgrade attempt or succession if not failing.
I get that people will thinks Maria become Creator because she has the potential to become one but is this type of Creator is greater than Voyagers, Great Witches and Gods only or including being above Featherine tooin which she's the strongest chararcter within Umineko? Because it's very confusing when you can create everything alone but still regain current form when it clearly says that in Creator domain everything will be erased which is similar in the notion of Akasha and Oblivion from Marvel but wait, doesn't Sea of Oblivion acts as the Void for Umineko metafictional entities? That means Creator domain/Kingdom isn't just a mere Void but trasncending it, including the other "Creator Witches" which tries to become the True Creator but never capable to do so because they can only reach it through true potential and destiny to become one, like Maria did. Featherine tier is confusing indeed but why nobody points out her gameboard avatras (Eua & hanyuu).
Where's Eua, why Featherine is next to Hanyuu instead of her? Of course, she's gone because she is just one of the gameboard avatar of her that's already replaced by the Creator Witch Featherine on Umineko. It's just a card picture though? Stop debunking what's already a fact and all i'm trying to do is fixing all the wrong fanon and heacanon that all people believes that's been going through for years. I know this is just a card from a game. But even the artist knows the connections between the most important characters on Umineko and Higurashi. It's been rebunked due to the reference to Higurashi which stated by Bernkastel towards Featherine herself.
The explaination about Maria powers as witch of origin but there's nothing that directly points about the true Creator relation in this part nor it's an explanation about the Creator Witches, because only Maria is able to do this. Beatrice grasp of her potential is limited only to Featherine level and this is Creator Witch Featherine not the true creator version. That's why, Maria is stronger than Beatrice but she is more like Featherine successor as in true creator aka the Aurora version of Featherine.
Creator (According to Multiversology)
Creators (造物主 Zōbutsushu) are very uncommon witches of immeasurably divine powers with the power to literally create something from nothing ("create 1 from 0"). Many Voyagers have the potential to become Creators but for some reason they fear this possibility. Their magic is comparable to the powers of a god, and each of them is potentially capable of creating entire galaxies if they are well trained.
In Memoirs of the ΛΔ, Lambda describes Creators and gods as omniscient and almighty. With that they are freed from all restrictions, meaning they even lose the ground under their feet. Thus they also lose the meaning of existence, life and death and could vanish like mist.
This basically means, the Creators can make anything out of nothing but they need to lose their own existence and becomes an abstract being but they are like 100x infinitely higher than Voyagers true form nor the Great Witches and other unknown Writers. If Beatrice reach Featherine levels then she did able to reach such tier but don't take this as reaching the tier of Featherine true form, Aurora. This can be taken into two possible ways:
A. It's specifically aimed for the Creators "Witches" (Creators) only but not the true creator because the true creator doesn't need such abilities of making things from "0" into "1" when they're fully Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent.
B. It's pointing towards the requirement to become Creator & Creators/Creator "Witches" is through raw potential and fate/destiny just like Maria and Beatrice. In this case, Maria becomess the true Creator. Since nobody could ever truly become the true Creator if not blessed by the "Holy Spirit", not just Creators/Creator "Witches".
Holy Spirit is like a metaphor and it's related with religious trinity/trinitarian stuff so i rather not talk about it since people might get sensitive about it.
^This is correct but think about it again, something wrong in it? Yes and no. Yes, because if that's how things were done then Featherine and Beatrice wouldn't be regarded as a Creator to begin with since one of them is like a smurf Creator while the other will become as strong as the other one but without weakness and no true form which means either slightly stronger or weaker since this means Beatrice becomes powerful like Featherine but it's unknown whether many of her limitations is lifted or not in exchange for gaining true form. Same case as Maria but Maria is even more crazier since she's the only one able to become an entity that perfectly suits the meaning of a Creator above.
So, it's really confusing if we follow that meaning then not even Featherine and Beatrice is a Creator but even if we acknowledge Featherine and true potential Beatrice as a Creator. Only Beatrice the one that's still don't have enough narrative, statements and WoG aside from feats to prove that she's a bonafide Creator instead of just a Witch that becomes a Creator just like Maria just because having the potential to do so. Oh wait! Doesn't this debunks the argument of Creator being only 1-A? Since Featherine is a smurfing creator and never used her true creator form in which the platonic concept of "Omnipotent power and Life" is equal to the likes of Maria but Maria herself becomes Creator which the previous known tier is 0. Not sure about that but since it's downgraded to 1-A so Featherine, Maria and Beatrice are all equal?. First off, that's really stupid and funny at the same time.
Why? Because although Maria and Beatrice won't possess weakness like Featherine did.
I know it's an official meaning from Umineko but then again WoG says the otherwise although still keeping the word related to the main cannon without ruining the "Creator" class he made since Featherine aka Aurora true form is broken so he doesn't used that concept and use Featherine as the Creator Witch only.
Memories=Weakness?
That's a yes and no depeding on how you interpret it. Some says it'll make her lost all memories and abilities, some says it reduces a massive portion of her powers and some says it will change her personalities. Most of them are right but the power reduction isn't really applied as shown the gameboard version of Featherine within Higurashi isn't losing any of her powers at all, just changing her appearance and her personality more or less stays intact. So, it's already debunked by Featherine in her Higurashi gameboard avatar (Eua) head device destroyed by Hanyuu.
This means that device is used for reincarnation and connection between each worlds and her true self. If she doesn't have it then she won't able to have any connection to her true self and more or less became Hanyuu, which is like a version of her that lost her previous appearance and personality.
Does Featherine really need to worry about her one and only weakness? (Narrative + Dialogues+ Feats + References + Cosmology + Translates + Disperse hiperbolic States+Meanings+Script+Others Compositions) She can reach Omnipotence without disrespecting the hierrarcy functionality of the verse for the Metafictional cosmology proposals.
Aurora is a woman? Is it a concept? That's up to what the viewers to decide but you can think how Aurora works is very similar to Law of Indentity, by itself assuming it's own gender as a female.
About Featherine being a creator and the strongest characters:
Question 1: Since Featherine has the ability to make what she writes come true, is it feasible to interpret that the entire story of "Ep 08" was written by Featherine?
A: That's one way of thinking about it. She's the closest thing to a god in that world, the author of the world. So there is no doubt that she is the strongest of all the characters. At the same time, it's pretty embarrassing. I'm embarrassed when I put myself in my work and say, "I'm so strong~!" (laughs). It's like a fantasy novel with the author as the strongest protagonist.
Counter Question 1:
The bolded one isn't explicitly pointing towards all of her forms it's just her Creator Witch avatar, Creator Witch true form and her Ikuko Hachijo form which doesn't including her Aurora true form. That's why Bernkastel doesn't calls Aurora but Auaurora instead, because it's not just a simple reference of Higurashi connection with Umineko but also to imply a hidden meaning that both FAA and Ikuko is not the true self since it's still just an actor.
Lambdadelta vs Featherine scene interpretation
Question 2: When you look at it from that perspective, the fight between Fetherine and Lambdadelta is interesting, isn't it? (laughs)
A: I wanted to make it so that I would defeat Lambda, but I didn't know how to do it, so I just wrote that I defeated her. This scene strangely turned out to be a bit like "Sho●o" (laughs). In reality, it became a subjective question of "Who is writing that world? (laughs). I don't think there are many people who think that far ahead when reading.
No Counter since there's more than one writer, creators "witches" but only one true creator which is Featherine herself.
Auau type of existence
Question 3: What kind of existence is Featherine anyway?
A: In the tips of Ep6, it was said that Featherine "constantly repeats a cycle of life and death." When Featherine herself was a piece, she realized that she was a character being written by someone, and what she had believed to be free will was being written by someone else. That's why she died. But she came back as a writer herself and found true free will by drawing herself in her own work, without shame or embarrassment. She may now be in a world of relay manga. She may exist in a world where she writes her own characters, but other characters are written by several writers.
Counter Question 3: Featherine downgrade to 1-B? No, that's not really Featherine herself but more like an aspect of her in other gameboard along with Hanyuu (If Hanyuu is not an aspect of Featherine then it's either Oyashiro-sama or just a character that were previously connected with Higurashi Gods but actually able to become one herself, a God. This is just like the two well known examples and that is Marvel TOAA-TOBA and The Presence-"God" (Killed by Gabriel)-Dark Presence (Killed by Lucifer). In this, her gameboard avatar is "defeated" by Hanyuu.
Does this mean Featherine is as weak as a voyager or a witch during her past? Maybe you can put it like that since she phrases it like there is someone/something of a higher power than even herself. But, that's totally wrong.
Why? Because it's easier to understand your subjects
In that picture, Featherine aspect (Auau/Eua) states "Those who hold dominion over us are truly cold of heart". I'll explain more about it later but first i want to tell that she's taking her current meta-roleplay aka as the antagonist of Higurashi very devotedly. To the point of making us think that she's completely a whole different entity that is independently exist instead of being Featherine herself. Which Featherine succeded to do so because not many people understand the very concept of Umineko and Higurashi connection plus how Ryukishi 07th works.
Observing and understanding it slowloy and deeply, she isn't directly adressing Satoko nor Satoko that she invited to her world. She’s indirectly adressing Vier, LD3105, and Mitsuyo. Referencing that it took hundreds of millions of loops for Eua and Satoko to meet 'once more’. Which took even far more longer than the 100 year looping between Hanyuu-Satoko and Rika. So, there's also connections between Umineko and Ciconia. Because that's how Ryukishi07th works, making the most important characters to play lots of different roles in each of his own works that is from another verse besides Umineko. So, being the true creator is an easy task for Featherine because she is Aurora itself a concept that took form of the Greatest Witch among Great Witch and becoming the Creator Witch.
Featherine (Left), Eua (Middle) and Seshat (Right).
^This picture shows all of them are directly related and responsbile to writing stories and they are connected with Featherine whether it's mildly vague, bigger or even not at all since the circumstances doesn't matter because that's how Ryukishi write his strongest characters nor any other character having other roles in another verse of his own works. So, the connection between Featherine and Eua is clearly proved to be true. In this case, Eua is either Featherine aspects or just one of the many gameboard avatar she has and actually used at least once. If Featherine is eua then with that kind of power, she should have lost to the Voyager (In this case Lambdadeta) she fought since Eua power is more or less just 1-B with low-end scaling and 1-B+ with high-end scaling.
Source: https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Similar_Characters
List of Similar Characters:
Ryukishi07’s works often feature characters that are similar to those in his previous works, either through appearance, similar names, or personalities. He likens his characters to actors, explaining that they look the same because it's one person playing different roles.[1]
This page lists the characters that meet at least one, preferably more, of the following criteria and groups them together based on their “original” version:
they have a similar if not identical appearance;
their name has some connection with a prior character's name, either through puns or similar readings/pronunciations;
they have the same voice actors;
they have a dynamic with another character that is themselves a lookalike of another character.
In general, characters need to meet at least two of the above to be listed, unless they have a near-identical appearance.
Alright this means, Featherine is capable of playing any role and as the strongest of Umineko won't it make sense if she's the true creator since she's referenced on Higurashi and she's probably Seshat in Ciconia since there's this statement. In the epilogue, Seshat heads to an underground facility to wake someone up, needing them to call back "those two." I'm not knowledgeable on Ciconia so i don't know who Seshat refers to but can't you all connect the dots?
Fear of the Voyagers becoming a creator, and why Maria is the promised witch to being the strongest creator
Question 4: Is that where the Voyager's fear of becoming a Creator comes from?
A: That's right. Manga is interesting when you read it, but eventually, you get tired of reading it. But if you are given a blank notebook and write in it yourself, you can play with it endlessly, which is much more interesting than reading manga. However, if you run out of ideas or get bored with the act of drawing, it's over. Moreover, you (the artist) will not be able to create characters or developments that you do not want. A Creator is a boring creature because they can create anything they want.
Question 5: ---You won't be able to read interesting stories made by others
A: It's easier to not be a creator, just like it's easier to sit in front of the TV and watch more and more stories. Humans are the most comfortable because they don't even know they are characters in someone else's work, and they believe they are acting of their own free will. On the other hand, Bern, Lambda, and the rest of the hierarchy can intervene in the story by changing the channel at will and occasionally giving orders to the scenario writer. However, they pretend not to know this fact until the very last minute, because it would change the story. I think that's what killed Featherine. It's fun to fantasize in a blank notebook, but it's very hard to keep writing stories in it, so the witch dies. Witches are those who have begun to realize that they are someone else's creation, and they are in a position to view different creations. The reason why Maria was called "the Witch of Origins" is because she can expand her ideas and world from scratch without ever getting bored.
Therefore, Featherine is the strongest character in the world of Umineko, and is a representation of Ryukishi himself, as the creator of the Work, and she writes the script for all episodes, being in the position of a creator (writer) of those episodes that are authored by Hachijo Tohya (herself outside the tales, in the real world). Featherine doesn’t have the same disease that affects the witch domain, she has the disease (boredom) of not knowing what to write, and maria is fated to be the strongest creator because she will never get bored in "drawing" the world
Infinite Hierchrcial Abyss:
The cosmology When They Cry has infinite higher worlds, being analogued to an infinite ladder that has infinite steps (being called "endeavors") that leads to the bottomless abyss, or rather the infinite hierarchical abyss (a similar concept to that of Ein Sof). The Witches are higher existences than human and the higher they (and other higher beings) walk on that ladder and the more they seek freedom and power, the more they freed from restrictions proportionally.
Humans are the lowest existences on that hierarchy, tied and tossed around by fate and at the lowest "endeavors". In the "middle" are the Witches, creators of fate and its players, they accepted limitations and restrictions so that they will not lose the "ground" on their foot (with Lambdadelta somewhere on that "middle"). The ultimate beings that stand at the top (Brahman) of the infinite hierarchical abyss are the Creator, the Gods and Creator Witches, who freed from infinity and all restrictions, they boundless and had survived even unboundness itself, they are absolute, omnipotent, omniscient, creators and rulers of all Creation.
According to the game, witches are human beings who gain power exceeding normal humans and can use them at will. The Witches are divided into three tiers:
Territory Lords: Witch/Sorcerer who are creators and rulers of a territory, as such when they stop thinking their territory will vanish, literally. But when they think again, it will simply be created again, this process can be repeated infinitely and it is still even less breathing to them. The Territory Lords are the gods of their Territory, being able to control anything in it, even the narrative.
Voyagers: Witches/Sorcerers who are far superior to Territory Lords, they can leave their Territories and travel beyond it, to the infinite Sea of Fragments and worlds higher than it. For them, concepts such as fate can be visualized and manipulated at will (insignificant as weaker beings can do much more impressive thing than this). The Voyagers are commonly known as being one step below Creators.
Creators:They are the pinnacle of witches, Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. To Witches, they are no different than Gods. But being a Creator has a high price, as the Witch who attains this level would lose every restriction, even the 'self', and become part of The Creator. Featherine Augustus Aurora is the only known Witch to ever touch the Realm of The Creator and become one, and even her isn't fully a Creator..
^This list, all of them are correct but the Creator part is slightly wrong. The correct wording would be like the one i writed below with minor to medium changes plus the branching creator due to the metafictional setting.
Creator Witches (Creators): They are the last step a Witch could achieve. They are all-powerful but still limited by some restrictions shown by their one weakness but they can also possess no weakness at all if they have the potential to become one without retaining a single weakness. Which can be seen in Featherine Creator Witch avatar nor True form that retains her weakness and Maria naive personality will also be retained even though one day she might be able to reach the tier of a Creator Witches. The Witches who reached this tier will lost all the remaining restrictions they still currently have. They will be formless as an abstrat being just like the Voyagers but due to some reasons, only those who achieved this tier using their true potential/untapped potentials is capable of retaining their own appearance, personality and even will. This traits were already shown by Beatrice and Maria.
True Creator: It is not clearly known nor widely recognized by others but all the reference proved Featherine is the True Creator and the strongest Umineko character. She become nigh-omnipotent for the sake of curing her boredom as the True Creator. Although Featherine stated to be the most powerful, she still has other aspects that rivals her such as the Holy Spirit in which Maria true potential comes from as her name comes from Maria, the mother of a certain religion God.
The fact Featherine is the first one to reach Creator Domain implies that she's the only one who able to turn herself into a smurf by lowering herself to the tier of a "Creator Witches" thus she's directly responsible for the creation of the class/rank on 07th Expansion series. So, her power extent of reach is not limited just in Umineko but the whole 07th Expansion series. She is the only one to reach Creator Domain, technically there's no other Creator besides her unless for the future Creator but that's just Creator Witch not a True Creator that is capable of governing the whole hierrarcy and encompassing the whole 07th Expansion verse.
Which means:
True Creator/Life & Omnipotent Power (Featherine)>Creator Aspects>Great Witch (Featherine's tier, possibly just another name for Creator Witches)=Creator "Witches"/Sub-True Creator>Voyager=Great Witch (Lower tier)>Gods (Creator Lower gameboard avatars)=Game Master/Territory Lords>Witches>Pieces>Apprentice Witches>Humans
True Creator/Life & Omnipotent Power At least 1-A+ (Low-end ), likely High 1-A (High-end) , 0 (Old standards)
Creators Witches/"Creators" At least High 1-B, likely 1-A
Voyagers 1-B, likely 1-B+
I don't have any problems with 98% Umineko character becoming 1-B or 1-B+ but i don't think Voyagers deserved to be put at baseline 1-B since they are sub-Creator that's infinitely weaker but not in term of conceptual nor dimension, instead they're only weaker because they are still restricted by their limitations. Their true form already shows they are sub-Creator which is Voyagers and Great Witches that's not really much different from one another, especially the fact there's an aspect of erasing authority from Featherine that is turned into an entity which is Piece, one of the Voyagers and i think she should be the only one being Low 1-A at least if Bern and Lambda stays 1-B and 1-A at most.
There's actually 2 types or even 3 of Creators since Umineko "True Creator" expands to Higurashi with all the hints of Eua=Featherine.
1. Creator (Which gained only by arriving into Creator Domain or directly stated able to become one by WoG. Only if a witch owns what it needs to become one, the only known one is thoruhg having connection with the Holy Spirit, an aspect of Creator (True Creator). This is the original creator that smurfed itself/herself maybe not just a smurf but a more like a nerf although to an unkown extent since it's not stated to be permanent/non-permanent. The only information is through metaphors and connections which Featherine has with one of the Higurashi Gods and and a direct aspect of Featherine which is Eua)
2. Creator "Witches"/Creators (Which is basically what every Witch that is able to ascend into one as they progress on the infinite ladder journey. The are also case of those who can give birth to 0 and 1 able to become a Creator. Voyager true form looks like this but they aren't nowhere as strong as Creator Witches since Lambdadelta couldn't even defeat Featherine Creator Witch avatar. All Creator Witches and Gods is also like the Creaator itself who freed from infinity and all restrictions, they boundless and had survived even unboundness itself, they are absolute, omnipotent, omniscient, creators and rulers of all Creation. But them ain difference is their power, with The True Creator being the strongest (Featherine), while the Creator Witches (Beatrice) being the second and Gods being the third or last as the weakest tier from the Creator category. We can sum up the Great Witches as Creator Witches too since they are fundamentally the same.
3.Gods/Aspect of "Creator" (They are either a portion of the Creator or Creator Witches powers, if they are born from Creator Witches then their power are lower than them if they directly made from Creator itself then their power will be same as Creator Witch Featherine which should be equal to other potential Creator Witch but is still above them due to being a smurf. So their power depends on their creator and they will always scale lower than their creator if their creator isn't the true creator. Normally, Gods are only 1-B to 1-A and the strongest of them all are more like representing other authors/writers writing stories with Featherine being the leader and true creator that superseds the entire hierarcy of ladders an class.)
I'm just saying i think this should be a better and reasonable tiering i could sum up which will be like this:
True Creator Tier:
Aurora "The concept of Life & Omnipotent power"=Unknown tier|At least High 1-A|Likely 0
This means Umineko is just a small part of life itself, it's not limited to Umineko but the whole 07thexpansion series that's why there's reference to Higurashi Gods and characters (Eua & Hanyuu). So, even if Aurora do get downgraded i think it's unreasonable not to put her to 1-A+ at the very lowest-end and High 1-A with highest-end. She deserve tier 0
Maria (Option 1).
Creator Witches Tier:
Featherine Augustus Aurora=1-B or 1-B+ with Avatars| 1-A or 1-A+ Creator Witch Avatar, likely High 1-A with "Creator Witch" true form, Unknown|Possibly High 1-A as Ikuko Hachijo (Amplified version of Featherine Creator Witch form that exist on Rokkenjima Prime which is outside of the Umineko gameboard)
Maria (If option 2 is wrong then move to option 2 by Maria becoming a Creator "Witch")=1-A+, likely High 1-A
The Senate/Great Court of Heaven= 1-B+, Low 1-A| 1-A|
Writers=Unknown, likely low 1-A, should be 1-A since scales to Featherine writer form (Ikuko Hachijo and Featherine Creator Witch avatar form)
Great Witch Tier:
Featherine's Friend=1-B+, likely 1-A
Lambdadelta's Fanclub=1-B+, likely 1-A
Gods Tier:
Hanyuu (Featherine Split-Aspect/Alter-Avatar)=1-B| 1-B+| 1-A | Likely 1-A+ due to being one of Featherine's aspect.|
Voyager Witch Tier (Including equals):
High:
Piece (Featherine's Creator Witch Aspect)= At least 1-A| 1-A+ scales to Featherine Augustus Aurora (Creator Witch)
ANGE-Beatrice (Witch of Resurrection)=1-B|1-B+|Low 1-A
Dlanor A. Knox=1-B|1-B+| 1-A as part of Ange world she scales to Ange
Lambdadelta (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Bernkastel (True Form)=At least High 1-B, likely low 1-A|1-A+
Mid:
Lambdadelta (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Bernkastel (Avatar)=1-B+, likely low 1-A
Willard H. Wright=1-B|1-B+|Unknown|
Low:
Furudo Erika (EP8 Tea Party)=High 1-C|1-B
^That's just for the characters, as for the cosmology i think we should fix it to a smaller and the more correct one, since all of them follows the same rules of the infinite ladder. With each domain having it's own hierrarchy as well, infinite or not that depends on how you depicts it since if it's not then Uminneko should be downgraded to High 1-C instead 1-B since the way it works is very similar to Mihoyo verse instead of Fujitakaverse (Instant Death) nor Masadaverse. But the fact that it's infinite and each domain area members transcends each others until it reached the top as a higher-order being.
List of Umineko Cosmology
The Infinite Hierarchical Ladder:
1. Human Domain: At least High 1-C (Low-end), 1-B (High-end)
2. Witch Domain: 1-B, likely 1-B+
3. Featherine's Domain: 1-A, likely High 1-A
4. Sea of Oblivion: Unknown, likely High 1-A
5. 3rd Domain (Optional): 1-A+ (Low-end), High 1-A (High-end)
6. Creator's Domain: High 1-A, likely 0 (High-end)
Downgrade result
99% layers Hyper and 1% layer is Outer= So, there is just one infinite D layer without any metafictional stuff which is why they are only at least 1-B and at most High 1-B while the highest one like Creator Domain is just baseline 1-A. No more metafictional, meta-language, meta role-play aspects anymore since it's downgraded to Hyperverse level only. Only Featherine, Beatrice and Maria considered as Metafictional characters (1-A) while the rest is just Hyperversal tier?
1. Human Domain: 1-C
2. Witch Domain: 1-C
3. 3rd Domain (CoB, Featherine's Domain, etc): 1-B
4. Creator's Domain: 1-A
Creators=1-A (Featherine, Maria, Beatrice)
Voyagers=1-B (Piece, Bernkastel, Lambdadelta, Santa Claus)
The possibilities of a human becoming a God, although they will lose their mind either literally or just metaphorical. It's basically the same case as the witches becoming a Creator Witches or even the literal Creator class itself and also Voyagers becoming a metaphysical abstract being similar to Creator but still infinitely lower than the Creator and also Creator Witches. Basically Creator Witches is like Sub-Creator+ (1-A, likely 1-A+) while Voyagers is like Sub-Creator. (Low 1-A, likely 1-A). With True Creator superseds every other class and even the entire hierarcies of every domains on Umineko nor any other verse coming from Ryukishi works that's contained within City of Books, as the Creator class they are the omnipotent being but so far there's only one Creator exists and known which is none other than Featherine herself in which making her deserving at least for a 1-A+ (Low-end), High 1-A (High-end), likely tier 0 as the literal Metafictional Concept of an Omnipotent concept/entity that represents the entire 07thexpansion verse cosmology including all of the concepts and powers.
This is invalid because when Featherine's saying about there's so much more still above me is like Presence referring to the external forces. Since Featherine is referring to the real world authors not simply referring to the true creator since she's the creator itself not just a mere creator witch that endless witch like Beatrice can achieve. Only Maria could become like her because her connection with the Holy Spirit just like Spectre connection with the Oversoul nor Lucifer Morningstar being one of The Presence aspects.
Voyagers are capable of becoming a Creator but not a literal Creator, they'll be like Beatrice at most with some able to retain their appearance just like Bernkastel having true form with no difference as her avatar form, while the rest of them will become similar to Creators in term of appearance like Lambdadelta. This effectively means, Voyagers is basically just an extremely powerful, old and experienced Witches aka Veteran Witches but to begin with they never had the potential to become a Creator Class but limited to Creator Witches class-title only.
With the explanation above the correct tiering should be like this list below:
God-tier Characters/Almighty Beings-
Featherine (True Creator)>=Maria (Future Creator/Featherine's True Successor)>=Beatrice (Future Creator Witch/Featherine's "Successor") & Gods
God-tier Class-Titles:
True Creator (Aurora "Life/Omnipotent Power")>Great Witches (High-end)=Creator Witches (True Form)>=Creator Witch (Avatar Form)=Great Witches (Low-end)>Voyagers (True Form)>Voyagers (Avatar Form)
Umine is one of the fewest avaiable story from visual novel and anime that is metafictional related aside from the known few ones (Ichiban Ushiro no Diamoau, I/O). This is why metafictional combined with dimensions becomes purely useless and terms like omnipotent is balancedly used in any settings, whether fantasy, science or even a mix of both. The main problem is higher dimensional tiering becomes flawed when tiering characters above the entire verse setting nor the whole verse aspects. Umineko are the most relevant metafictional verse compared to any other metafictional verse which points out clearly their relevance towards some reference to religion, history and fantasy partially mixed with science. If people want to downgrade a big metafictional verse like Umineko then try to understand more about the meta-settings, meta-language, meta-metaphors, and anything else in Umineko.
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Then take your time because you have it and for lots.
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I agree with this tbh.
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Read the argument even if you don't like it. I don't care
Hasty12345
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I’m gonna be honest here, I appreciate the amount of work you put into this post. It’s clear you’ve put a lot of thought into it. It would be much appreciated if you could format it better and maybe dot point your arguments at the end?
@Amaterasuliberation1
@Amaterasuliberation1
Darksmash
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I mean I am just asking for them to summarise the argument, or perhaps format their post to seperate what they are quoting from what they are typing. Don't know why you responded though, considering you aren't even the one who made that post.
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Don't worry. I was just reading the argument until the "new posts in this thread" notification popped up and I thought that there would be people having readen the comment per se. Only to find that... No. So let's take our time and ask him what you and Hasty said: can you please make a TL;DR?
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