When Creators Cry: Answer Arcs (Yes, it's a downgrade)

[PrinceofPein]

So, my fist can BFR to the afterlife? Sick.

Ikr, go down the street find anyone random try it out, it works

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ikr, go down the street find anyone random try it out, it works

Wait, I just got BFR'd to prison.

Why did you lie?!

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Lie? LIE!?

 

[God900]

Wait, I just got BFR'd to prison.

Why did you lie?!

The Summary?

 

[MrKerf]

Since the crt is almost finished, can I make an offer please? @QuasiYuri

I think the voyager witches should get a key that scales to the creators level just like maria. Because their potential to become a creator at the end of their journey is absolutely undeniable.

"Voyagers are frightened that the ends of their own journeys mean becoming a Creator. As to why they would be frightened of advancing to become a higher-order being, none can understand except they themselves."

So i think creators called "untapped potential" like maria should get a key that scales to their level.

Oh, that's right, actually. Maria's only advantage is the ability to not become bored forever.

 

[Darksmash]

I think the voyager witches should get a key that scales to the creators level just like maria. Because their potential to become a creator at the end of their journey is absolutely undeniable.

They have the potential but it's ambiguous whether they would take the final steps since they are afraid to do so. Right now afaik the wiki only give future creator key to Maria because her case in becoming a creator is absolutely certain

 

[MrKerf]

Tbf we know nothing about how Maria will be as a creator, what abilities she'll have, etc. Like I asked in previous crt, I ask whether she even should have such key?

 

[Darksmash]

Tbf we know nothing about how Maria will be as a creator, what abilities she'll have, etc. Like I asked in previous crt, I ask whether she even should have such key?

We don't know such details about Creators as a whole. So I would say the key is fine

 

[QuasiYuri]

Since the crt is almost finished, can I make an offer please? @QuasiYuri

I think the voyager witches should get a key that scales to the creators level just like maria. Because their potential to become a creator at the end of their journey is absolutely undeniable.

"Voyagers are frightened that the ends of their own journeys mean becoming a Creator. As to why they would be frightened of advancing to become a higher-order being, none can understand except they themselves."

So i think creators called "untapped potential" like maria should get a key that scales to their level.

I would disagree.

Maria only have it because she would be special among Creators.

Tbf we know nothing about how Maria will be as a creator, what abilities she'll have, etc. Like I asked in previous crt, I ask whether she even should have such key?

As far as we know Creators just have the same stuff.


If Maria's speciality to be never bored is not considered enough, then the key should be removed tho.

 

[MrKerf]

So far we know only that "Creators" are Featherine though, nothing more -_-

 

[Darksmash]

I believe Maria has that key mainly because she is 100% certain to become a creator, as opposed to Voyagers who are still afraid and uncertain whether to be a creator or not

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Wait, I just got BFR'd to prison.

Why did you lie?!

what do you mean bro? I got BFR'd to the hospital.

 

[Darksmash]

The fact that maria is definitely going to be a creator doesn't really preclude the case of the voyager witches who could be creative. R07 already explains why voyagers are afraid to be creative, as he stated in his interview.

Question 4: Is that where the Voyager's fear of becoming a Creator comes from?

A: That's right. Manga is interesting when you read it, but eventually, you get tired of reading it. But if you are given a blank notebook and write in it yourself, you can play with it endlessly, which is much more interesting than reading manga. However, if you run out of ideas or get bored with the act of drawing, it's over. Moreover, you (the artist) will not be able to create characters or developments that you do not want. A Creator is a boring creature because they can create anything they want.

As it can be understood from the information he gave in his interview, it is clear that the reason why the voyagers are afraid and hesitant to be creative is because the creators are boring creatures. Because they're already avoiding boredom, why would they want to become a boring existence? The verse is in his statement to us in the continuation of his explanation that they can be creative, he also mentions that they are afraid of turning into a higher being. That is, he already says that at the end of their journey, they turn into a higher being, the creator. Also, it is already accepted that there are more than one creators in an unknown number. as Beatrice points out we can say as she also points out how rare the witch of origins is.that some of these creators were voyager witches before. Just as Yuri said that Featherine used to be a Voyager witch. I'm still not sure about Yuri's comment, if it's wrong, I hope Yuri doesn't lynch me . So, as can be seen from the information the verse gave us and the interview of the R07, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't give the voyagers a potential creative key.

I already know about that. What I said was because they are afraid to become a creator, we don't know if they will ever be willing to take the necessary steps. So this key would be more based on a hypothetical assumption rather than something that would definitely happen in the future.

 

[God900]

I would disagree.

Maria only have it because she would be special among Creators.


As far as we know Creators just have the same stuff.


If Maria's speciality to be never bored is not considered enough, then the key should be removed tho.

So the Summary?...…....

 

[Zencha9]

It's not like this is the final revision anyway. If the new series gives more information and gives us more reasons for 1-A and higher rating then we can literally make another revision. Not applying this just because new series is yet to come is a big disservice to @QuasiYuri's hard work.

Or you know you can use that one vn that no one wants to use as canon lol

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just because you said Maria should be special isn't a reason to disagree. To be honest i remember you saying somewhere in this crt that featherine was a voyager witch and finally were a creator. Sorry if I'm wrong with your comment, I don't remember exactly. Even though you have said this, not agreeing with it now shows that you are at odds with yourself. The verse clearly tells us that at the end of their journey they can become a creator and frankly, I can't even see a connection between Maria's special situation and disagreeing with it.

It don't see how I'm being at odd with myself.

I emitted the possibility of Feath being a Voyager in the past, but it is unrelated to the matter at hand.

By verses' rules, litteraly every being in the verse can end up as a Creator, even lowly humans (as we know from stuff like Lambdadelta's Memoirs).
Does this mean we should give everyone a Creator key because they can become one eventually? I don't think so.

Maria's only reason would be because she's a relevant exception among Creators and the story's putting an emphasis on her and Creatorship.
If this isn't enough for her to be an exception and keep her key related to it, then nuke that key.

So the Summary?...…....

Coming, coming.

 

[MrKerf]

Or you know you can use that one vn that no one wants to use as canon lol

Oh?

 

[God900]

It don't see how I'm being at odd with myself.

I emitted the possibility of Feath being a Voyager in the past, but it is unrelated to the matter at hand.

By verses' rules, litteraly every being in the verse can end up as a Creator, even lowly humans (as we know from stuff like Lambdadelta's Memoirs).
Does this mean we should give everyone a Creator key because they can become one eventually? I don't think so.

Maria's only reason would be because she's a relevant exception among Creators and the story's putting an emphasis on her and Creatorship.
If this isn't enough for her to be an exception and keep her key related to it, then nuke that key.


Coming, coming.

Also, one question. Kinzo in his 9-B has Immeasurable speed right?...,I mean, I remember him fighting in a higher dimension in which the flow of time in the material world was perceived as stopped IIRCC. But maybe I'm wrong, I think I would've to rewatch that chapter.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Alright, here's the summary:

-Creators stuff is an unanimous agreement (there's some neutrals, but no actual disagreement)

-The Tiering is mostly agreed (1-B Meta Beings, possibly High 1-B Great Witches/Avatar Feath, 1-A Creators/Feath)

-Witches being concepts or only drawing powers from them was discussed between Ultima and Darkmash, but then Ultima disappeared so idk what Darkmash prefers here

-Truths stops being smurf

-Oblivion is a background but nobody scales to it actually

-Bye Bye Santa Claus

and I think that's all?

 

[Tarang123]

No. One of the last thing brought up is hpw it doesnt make sense for them to be smurf hax.

Honestly, I agree. The logic didn't really make much sense to me, but we can probably discuss that later

 

[Darksmash]

Or you know you can use that one vn that no one wants to use as canon lol

Rewrite actually doesn't affect the tier in the slightest. The cosmology would remain High 1-B even if you choose to include it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Also, one question. Kinzo in his 9-B has Immeasurable speed right?...,I mean, I remember him fighting in a higher dimension in which the flow of time in the material world was perceived as stopped IIRCC. But maybe I'm wrong, I think I would've to rewatch that chapter.

Imo the human domain profiles have their own problem, like treating them having Truth (which I don't really remember for Blue one?) as being able to use them as weapons which isn't what they do at all.
Mainly referring to the Ushiromiya's family here though.

Tbf if I had motivation I would deal with them, but only realized they had weird changes way after creating the thread.

 

[Zencha9]

Rewrite actually doesn't affect the tier in the slightest. The cosmology would remain High 1-B even if you choose to include it.

Huh

 

[Darksmash]

Well I suppose you can argue it can make Human domain somewhere in the 100D range, but that's beside the point since based on Ryukishi's own word it's not part of WTC.

 

[God900]

Imo the human domain profiles have their own problem, like treating them having Truth (which I don't really remember for Blue one?) as being able to use them as weapons which isn't what they do at all.
Mainly referring to the Ushiromiya's family here though.

Tbf if I had motivation I would deal with them, but only realized they had weird changes way after creating the thread.

So what speed should him have in his tier 9 key?..., also, if memory serves me right, he can jump from his human self (9-B) to his Dragon form which is HD. Although, I find it stupid for him to consider himself as weak and with low Magic power (yes, he hardly can engluf a cup of tea with his Magic), but he can literally shapeshift into a Higher dimensional being, he can summon people way above his league (Virgilia), etc.... Imao

 

[Darksmash]

his Dragon form which is HD. Although, I find it stupid for him to consider himself as weak and with low Magic power (yes, he hardly can engluf a cup of tea with his Magic), but he can literally shapeshift into a Higher dimensional being, he can summon people way above his league (Virgilia), etc.... Imao

Do you have a link to this from the VN? I don't think anything like this happens in the manga.

 

[QuasiYuri]

So what speed should him have in his tier 9 key?..., also, if memory serves me right, he can jump from his human self (9-B) to his Dragon form which is HD. Although, I find it stupid for him to consider himself as weak and with low Magic power (yes, he hardly can engluf a cup of tea with his Magic), but he can literally shapeshift into a Higher dimensional being, he can summon people way above his league (Virgilia), etc.... Imao

The summoning part is what Kinzo's excels at iirc.

 

[God900]

Do you have a link to this from the VN? I don't think anything like this happens in the manga.

Swipe.

 

[Darksmash]

Swipe.

Thanks
What about being HD though?

 

[God900]

Thanks
What about being HD though?

I don't have that one, let me search for it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Featherine's being creative while being a voyager witch also supports the need for voyagers to get a potential creator key. I really don't understand why the voyagers weren't able to pick up a potential creator key as it was clearly clearly articulated and backed by Featherine reason herself.

Featherine has it as a key because she is a Creator.

The story also clearly and unequivocally emphasizes that voyagers can be creative too. They are no different from Maria reason.

Lambdadelta litteraly thinks they are mindless beings and she's the one who gives us the info dump on Creators (with the TIPS).

Maria is so special not only is the VN calling her strongest Creator, Ryushiki07th himself comment on her inability to get bored, unlike the "boring creatures" that are Creator.

I don't care if maria's creator key is bombed and I can agree with that but then beatrice's potential key should be removed as well because it's similar to the voyagers cases. As you mentioned, anyone in the verse can be creator, and Beatrice, who stepped into featherine's level, is no exception. Because as you said others can do it too. They do not need to be specifically specified. Either add a "likely" creator key to the voyagers because it's potential, or remove all potential switches in the verse even though they all have support. Other than these two, I don't see any offers I can join.

Beatrice's case is based on her special case of internal evolving.
Although in this one I can agree with having it removed since she wouldn't be anything special and isn't one either.

Also, you seem to go by the logic that Voyagers would be the only one getting it. But your proposal is basically asking for even characters like Ghuda or Krauss to have a Creator key. You can't consider them the same case as Maria here.

 

[Rikimarox2]

When u peeps apply the revisions, don't forget to edit the Truths page, and remove the whole 1A potency stuff.

 

[Lormac_CC]

So i think creators called "untapped potential" like maria should get a key that scales to their level.

First I think it is should be eventually as they would eventually reach the creator realm at the end of there's journey. I disagree with the key because they are scared of reaching that realm. Maria is the only one confirmed who would reach that realm, so yeah she is special

 

[God900]

and remove the whole 1A potency stuff.

What Yuri said:. -

The Tiering is mostly agreed (1-B Meta Beings, possibly High 1-B Great Witches/Avatar Feath, 1-A Creators/Feath)

So the 1-A rating reamins

 

[Darksmash]

Still disagree with 1-A but whatever might make a different thread for that

Riki was talking about truths not the Creator

 

[God900]

Still disagree with 1-A but whatever might make a different thread for that

Riki was talking about truths not the Creator

̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶U̶m̶i̶n̶e̶k̶o̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶?̶?̶
̶S̶o̶m̶e̶t̶i̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶̶̶̶t̶r̶i̶e̶d ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶g̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶ ̶̶

 

[LoliNeverforlife]

̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶U̶m̶i̶n̶e̶k̶o̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶?̶?̶
̶S̶o̶m̶e̶t̶i̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶̶̶̶t̶r̶i̶e̶d ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶g̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶ ̶̶

he is an SPC fan.

 

[Darksmash]

̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶U̶m̶i̶n̶e̶k̶o̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶?̶?̶
̶S̶o̶m̶e̶t̶i̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶e̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶a̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶n̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶̶̶̶t̶r̶i̶e̶d ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶g̶r̶a̶d̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶ ̶̶

Well I wouldn't classify myself as a "supporter" or "opponent" since I don't exactly understand what they entail, but I just want the ratings to be accurate and not exaggerated.

 

[God900]

Well I wouldn't classify myself as a "supporter" or "opponent" since I don't exactly understand what they entail, but I just want the ratings to be accurate and not exaggerated.

But I mean, you seem to have some knowledge on this verse too. You've read the VN or the manga?

 

[Darksmash]

he is an SPC fan.

And? What does that entail? Are all SCP supporters Umineko haters?