were in the hell have the planet level naruto statements been debunked

[King_stopped]

this is question specifically based on my crt , please someone at this point answer me one godamn question , were have these feats been debunked , not just one or two but all these planet level feats and statements been debunked , because I'm sick and tired of people saying that '' oh its been debunked lol '' and then leaving , so anyone please provide me some evidence that could debunk every single one of those feats , not just two or three but every single one
ill even provide a list of all those feats if you want just to show how many their are

 

[EmilioRory10]

I agree with you, not with the Planet Level Kurama thing, but mods should at least link to the thread where that was debunked when closing a thread, people aren't just going to go through 400+ pages just to find the specific thread where that was debunked

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Most statements for "destroying the world" in Naruto simply do not refer to complete planetary destruction (world has other meanings than planet, tough), or they're contextualized to be below 5-B with the additional information. Then most 5-B calcs got replaced with more conservative minimums, and the ones that weren't replaced were riddled with awful assumptions and falsehoods.

 

[King_stopped]

Most statements for "destroying the world" in Naruto simply do not refer to complete planetary destruction (world has other meanings than planet, tough), or they're contextualized to be below 5-B with the additional information. Then most 5-B calcs got replaced with more conservative minimums, and the ones that weren't replaced were riddled with awful assumptions and falsehoods.

finally someone who is actually reasonable , the reason why i am stating this is not only because of statements but because of the feats that back these statements up which are without question planet level , would you like my entire list

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What feats do you think are valid that we don’t use?

 

[Lormac_CC]

Naruto, the verse only moved to low 5-B recently via upscaling. I don't remember it having a 5-B cal.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It doesn't have any accepted feats past 5-C, I'm just curious what valid 5-B feats the OP thinks we have.

I lied the first SPCT exists, but it gets halved since it was done by two people, so it only half counts.

 

[King_stopped]

What feats do you think are valid that we don’t use?

the naruto the last feat where a weakened otsutsuki ( cant remeber his name ) was going to throw the moon with enough force that it would destroy the earth , naruto beat this guy in kcm1 plus sage mode which is far weaker then base kcm2 and every single other mode or mode combination after it , plus 80 shinobi had enough chakra to destroy and teleport the moon , which naruto in kacm2 during the war after having fought against the ten tails , had enough chakra to give thousands of shinobi three times the chakra of kakashi and then still had enough chakra to fight the ten tails plus evry thing else he did , which all of that speaks for itself

 

[EmilioRory10]

the naruto the last feat where a weakened otsutsuki ( cant remeber his name ) was going to throw the moon with enough force that it would destroy the earth , naruto beat this guy in kcm1 plus sage mode which is far weaker then base kcm2 and every single other mode or mode combination after it , plus 80 shinobi had enough chakra to destroy and teleport the moon , which naruto in kacm2 during the war after having fought against the ten tails , had enough chakra to give thousands of shinobi three times the chakra of kakashi and then still had enough chakra to fight the ten tails plus evry thing else he did , which

He wasn't going to destroy the earth, he was going to end with the civilization, that's different.
He didn't use KCM1+SM, he used KCM2+SM, why'd he use KCM1 if it's weaker and less effective?

 

[King_stopped]

He wasn't going to destroy the earth, he was going to end with the civilization, that's different.
He didn't use KCM1+SM, he used KCM2+SM, why'd he use KCM1 if it's weaker and less effective?

no he didnt use kcm2 , kcm2 is the one with the cloak , the one he used didn't have a cloak , and kcm2 didn't change since he still has the cloak in boruto

 

[King_stopped]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-96bc5cd93038457525a9b181af7b87e0

 

[King_stopped]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZYJQR8XkAE15dC.jpg

 

[EmilioRory10]

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-96bc5cd93038457525a9b181af7b87e0

why should I take that statement literally?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZYJQR8XkAE15dC.jpg

and that pretty clearly refers to killing everyone

no he didnt use kcm2 , kcm2 is the one with the cloak , the one he used didn't have a cloak , and kcm2 didn't change since he still has the cloak in boruto

Do you have proof it's KCM1? Pretty clearly looks like KCM2

 

[Lormac_CC]

Not related but I want to ask, does chakara = AP in the verse cause I see things like 80 shinobi = moon or the stuff that happened during momoshiki fight, Naruto was drained of chakra by momoshiki so he lost AP.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

the naruto the last feat where a weakened otsutsuki ( cant remeber his name ) was going to throw the moon with enough force that it would destroy the earth

Both the movie and novel contextualize this by saying the moon will break up in atmosphere when it hits the roche limit (this is accurate to real life btw) and it would leave Earth as a barren wasteland until nature makes itself hospitable again. AKA it isn't 5-B. Plus the movement of the moon has been calculated to 5-C anyhow. By all means moon fragments bombarding the Earth would destroy it, just not in the sense of 5-B destruction (aka overcoming Earth's GBE).

plus 80 shinobi had enough chakra to destroy and teleport the moon

We don't know if the chakra input scales 1 to 1 with the chakra output. As in, mayhaps the potency of the canon is magnified from the raw energy put in. By that logic we'd scale anyone with chakra reserves comparable to the Shinobi Alliance to Large Star level, which has obvious issues I need not explain.

 

[King_stopped]

Both the movie and novel contextualize this by saying the moon will break up in atmosphere when it hits the roche limit (this is accurate to real life btw) and it would leave Earth as a barren wasteland until nature makes itself hospitable again. AKA it isn't 5-B. Plus the movement of the moon has been calculated to 5-C anyhow.


We don't know if the chakra input scales 1 to 1 with the chakra output. As in, mayhaps the potency of the canon is magnified from the raw energy put in. By that logic we'd scale anyone with chakra reserves comparable to the Shinobi Alliance to Large Star level, which has obvious issues I need not explain.

ok , while i now do agree with you on the actual feat , i don't agree with you on the next argument , kaguya used the chakra of the shinobi alliance but its obvious that it didn't give her that much of a boost , and most of that feat seems to be from her own chakra , plus we do know that on humans and other intelligent creatures they can amplify even small amounts of chakra to be very powerful based on how good they are at using it ( a good example is kakashi , he has very low chakra by all means but he's so good at using it that he can beat characters who have infinite amounts of chakra above him ) , which kaguya being the literal mother of chakra , its pretty self explanatory , on if the canon amplifies chakra , unless its stated in the movie then we should assume that it doesn't amplify chakra and that it only does the same thing a human can do

 

[EmilioRory10]

ok , while i now do agree with you on the actual feat , i don't agree with you on the next argument , kaguya used the chakra of the shinobi alliance but its obvious that it didn't give her that much of a boost , and most of that feat seems to be from her own chakra , plus we do know that on humans and other intelligent creatures they can amplify even small amounts of chakra to be very powerful based on how good they are at using it ( a good example is kakashi , he has very low chakra by all means but he's so good at using it that he can beat characters who have infinite amounts of chakra above him ) , which kaguya being the literal mother of chakra , its pretty self explanatory , on if the canon amplifies chakra , unless its stated in the movie then we should assume that it doesn't amplify chakra and that it only does the same thing a human can do

The Shinobi Alliance's chakra isn't even 1% of Kaguya's chakra yet Black Zetsu stated that she got "exponentially stronger", which would normally mean nothing, but it usually means she got much stronger

 

[Loyd]

Not related but I want to ask, does chakara = AP in the verse cause I see things like 80 shinobi = moon or the stuff that happened during momoshiki fight, Naruto was drained of chakra by momoshiki so he lost AP.

In cased you missed it this is where it got accepted. Tldr chakra amps stats but its not 1 to 1.

 

[King_stopped]

The Shinobi Alliance's chakra isn't even 1% of Kaguya's chakra yet Black Zetsu stated that she got "exponentially stronger", which would normally mean nothing, but it usually means she got much stronger

that seems to be more based on the fact that once again , she is a master at sufficiently controlling chakra , plus the shinobi alliance included the chakra of the nine tails so you could explain it by saying that she got a more complete version of the ten tails that madara had after absorbing him , which we know that the ten tails is more powerful then all biju combined so a lot more of the nine tails chakra would give her a boost

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

plus we do know that on humans and other intelligent creatures they can amplify even small amounts of chakra to be very powerful based on how good they are at using it ( a good example is kakashi , he has very low chakra by all means but he's so good at using it that he can beat characters who have infinite amounts of chakra above him )

Exactly, this would mean chakra amount is not 1 to 1 with AP. So, if it's possible that chakra amount isn't always 1 to 1 with AP, then we aren't going to assume that a machine which takes chakra is inherently 1 to 1. Additionally, defaulting to an assumption that leads to the highest rating possible isn't how we run things here, we generally default to the minimums. Furthermore, nothing backs up average fodder Shinobi scaling to 1/80 of 5-C.

Regardless, are you satisfied with why we don't treat the Last statements as 5-B?

 

[EmilioRory10]

she always had "the power of the nine tails", she only absorbed the chakra of the fodder and the 5 kage

 

[King_stopped]

In cased you missed it this is where it got accepted. Tldr chakra amps stats but its not 1 to 1.

I'm not saying its a 1 to 1 , if i were i would be a complete dunce since characters like kakashi exist

 

[King_stopped]

Exactly, this would mean chakra amount is not 1 to 1 with AP. So, if it's possible that chakra amount isn't always 1 to 1 with AP, then we aren't going to assume that a machine which takes chakra is inherently 1 to 1. Additionally, defaulting to an assumption that leads to the highest rating possible isn't how we run things here, we generally default to the minimums. Furthermore, nothing backs up average fodder Shinobi scaling to 1/80 of 5-C.

Regardless, are you satisfied with why we don't treat the Last statements as 5-B?

i am satisfied with the moon statement , a lot less satisfied with the shinobi alliance statement but i can still see were you are coming from at least , more then before

 

[EmilioRory10]

Btw, I'm just gonna say something.

You should change the title of this post, because "feats" isn't correct here, just use "statements"

 

[King_stopped]

Btw, I'm just gonna say something.

You should change the title of this post, because "feats" isn't correct here, just use "statements"

done

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What else needs explained away?

 

[King_stopped]

What else needs explained away?

does the sage of six paths have comparable chakra to kaguya

 

[King_stopped]

i would also like to say that since kaguyas truth seeking orb was just a globe of uncontrolled chakra that her more medium attacks could scale to it considering the difference between pure chakra and controlled is pretty massive

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Question, why doesn't kaguya scale to the truth seeking orb?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

does the sage of six paths have comparable chakra to kaguya

Based on Hag's page we don't really scale him to Kaguya, we moreso scale him to half his and Hamura's CT and above TCM Toneri. Based on Kaguya's page we scale her above Hag as it says this "implied to be stronger than the Sage of Six Paths."

i would also like to say that since kaguyas truth seeking orb was just a globe of uncontrolled chakra that her more medium attacks could scale to it considering the difference between pure chakra and controlled is pretty massive

You can google search Kaguya vsbw ETSO threads for why we don't scale her or anyone's normal attacks to the ETSO. The topic has been debunked so much on site there's a discussion rule against trying to upgrade her based on ETSO lol. I think there's a footnote at the bottom of her page about it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Uh...I'm pretty sure the Chakra Canon was going to teleport the moon anyway, not like straight up blow it up.
But even then, like the others said, chakra doesn't always work 1:1. We have far too many examples of non-linear amps, and I don't think we know nearly enough about the functionality of the Chakra Canon to assume that it functions linearly.

As for other "5-B feats", the Chibaku Tensei feats were 5-B when calculated using Kinetic energy, but using Potential energy to calculate them was deemed safer because we didn't have to assume timeframes and the like, making it more accurate overall.

The Kurama statements are just too vague. We don't accept generic "destroy the world" statements without further context.
Not to mention, I do remember people mentioning that the Japanese raws actual use the word earth, as in soil, as opposed to earth or world, as in the planet iirc.

 

[King_stopped]

Based on Hag's page we don't really scale him to Kaguya, we moreso scale him to half his and Hamura's CT and above TCM Toneri. Based on Kaguya's page we scale her above Hag as it says this "implied to be stronger than the Sage of Six Paths."


You can google search Kaguya vsbw ETSO threads for why we don't scale her or anyone's normal attacks to the ETSO. The topic has been debunked so much on site there's a discussion rule against trying to upgrade her based on ETSO lol. I think there's a footnote at the bottom of her page about it.

i would specifically like to ask for one of those debunks that is actually sufficient

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Uh...I'm pretty sure the Chakra Canon was going to teleport the moon anyway, not like straight up blow it up.
But even then, like the others said, chakra doesn't always work 1:1. We have far too many examples of non-linear amps, and I don't think we know nearly enough about the functionality of the Chakra Canon to assume that it functions linearly.

As for other "5-B feats", the Chibaku Tensei feats were 5-B when calculated using Kinetic energy, but using Potential energy to calculate them was deemed safer because we didn't have to assume timeframes and the like, making it more accurate overall.

The Kurama statements are just too vague. We don't accept generic "destroy the world" statements without further context.
Not to mention, I do remember people mentioning that the Japanese raws actual use the word earth, as in soil, as opposed to earth or world, as in the planet iirc.

 

[King_stopped]

because once again , thats was a globe of chakra which her average chakra attacks would scale above

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

i would specifically like to ask for one of those debunks that is actually sufficient

You can google search Kaguya vsbw ETSO threads

I'll give you the classic vsbw answer, Low 4-C is an outlier for Kaguya and the God Tiers regular displayed stats. Hence, why it scales in its own bubble.

 

[King_stopped]

thats not a debunk , thats telling me were to go , its like an antivaxxer telling someone to do there own research and leave it at that

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Question, why doesn't kaguya scale to the truth seeking orb?

This is a banned topic, so it's probably best not to start a big discussion about it.

But to quickly answer your question, it's mainly because it wasn't really done solely using her own chakra.

The note on her profile says this:

"The attempts to make Kaguya scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball were rejected many times before. The primary reason is because this attack required an amount of chakra far greater than her own chakra, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke who only possess half of Hagoromo's chakra each."

 

[King_stopped]

i would like to ask what that enormous chakra was , because it sure as hell wasn't the shinobi alliance , of it was then naruto would scale to that

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This is a banned topic, so it's probably best not to start a big discussion about it.

But to quickly answer your question, it's mainly because it wasn't really done solely using her own chakra.

The note on her profile says this:

"The attempts to make Kaguya scale to her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball were rejected many times before. The primary reason is because this attack required an amount of chakra far greater than her own chakra, and scaling her ordinary stats to it is inconsistent with her performance against Naruto and Sasuke who only possess half of Hagoromo's chakra each."

But like... kaguya required like the shinobi alliance chakra to create the orb, and the shinobi alliance's combined chakra is like nothing to naruto who had half kurama's chakra which is small country level, so she'd just downscale from large star level or is there more stuff I'm missing?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

i would like to ask what that enormous chakra was , because it sure as hell wasn't the shinobi alliance , of it was then naruto would scale to that

It doesn't matter how much chakra it was. BZ said it amped her exponentially above what she was prior. Therefore it was decided to be an amp far above her regular statistics.