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Welcome to Pagemageddon! Bill Cipher Rework.

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Ayewale said:
But why would he be referring to the entire Gravity Falls cosmology when referring to existence? There are many statements of characters stating they would destroy all of existence in Marvel and DC, yet never automatically assume they're referring to the entire cosmology unless there's very explicit reasoning: they mentioned said cosmology or rule over it somehow. Time Baby does neither.
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Pretty sure most statements like that in Marvel and DC come from lads that aren't aware of the bigger cosmology stuff, Time Baby is aware of the multiverse pretty sure
 
I agree with Abstractions and Ayewale’s PnA evaluations (with the exception of his Mindscape self’s Telepathy and his Intangibility, both of which I think checks out).
 
Ayewale said:
But why would he be referring to the entire Gravity Falls cosmology when referring to existence? There are many statements of characters stating they would destroy all of existence in Marvel and DC, yet never automatically assume they're referring to the entire cosmology unless there's very explicit reasoning: they mentioned said cosmology or rule over it somehow. Time Baby does neither.
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Because there is a clear cut statement of Bill being a threat to the entirety of the Multiverse and, as said before, "existence" means "everything that exists", which in this case would be 2-A. If he was referring to that specific Universe, than it's pretty obvious that he would have used a different word.
Instead, do you have any evidence to say that he was referring to that specific Universe rather than the Multiverse (aka "everything that exists")? Because I honestly don't see any.
 
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Maverick_Zero_X said:
I agree with Abstractions and Ayewale’s PnA evaluations (with the exception of his Mindscape self’s Telepathy and his Intangibility, both of which I think checks out).
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What about my post about the physical stats (@Phoenks later on changed his mind on Discord).

Plus 3-C is gonna be 3-B anyway
StrymULTRA said:
While we wait for @Phoenks, I got the calc for the Giant Ford. Was forced to change some things in the pixel scaling as the early version had erros made from oversight, still needs evalutation.

For a TLDR:
  • AP = 8 RonnaFOE (Multi-Galaxy level)
  • Lifting Strength = 1.27890448e64 Kg (Universal)
  • Speed = 24.5 Trillions times FTL (Massively FTL+)
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What do you think for a straight up 2-A, or simply "3-B, likely 2-A" if Shackron is accepted to not scaling to the Portal (it still should scale to Bill given that Ford has built it after all).
 
Phoenks said:
It does do something regarding Bill's powers since he is the one who caused and continues sustaining Weirdmaggedon with his weirdness powers.

Bill is said to get more powerful as Weirdmaggedon goes on as well, which aligns with Time Baby confirming that Weirdmaggedon also gets more dire as time goes on. So the two are definitely directly connected in a way that translates to AP.

  • Wierdmaggedon immediately starts when Bill starts wrecking havoc.
  • Bill gets stronger at the same time Weirdmaggedon gets more dangerous.
  • Weirdmaggedon ends when Bill dies.
  • Bill refers to himself as the host of the party that never ends (Weirdmaggedon).

The affects in other dimensions are supporting evidence for this not being a localized event isolated in space. Which is proof at the very least this is not some 3-A, single-universe threat, and definitely does help support other multiversal arguments.
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Just to start things off, Weirdmageddon as an event refers to Bill just coming to Gravity Falls. It's not a separate phenomenon, so 'Bill gets stronger as Weirdmageddon gets more dangerous' doesn't really make any sense. 'Weirdmageddon ends when Bill dies' also doesn't mean much because Weirdmageddon is literally just Bill appearing in the real world. All of the environmental affects of Weirdmageddon were caused directly by Bill; they're just his powers at work.

Bill getting more powerful as weirdmageddon goes on doesn't suggest Bill is a multiversal threat at all, neither does Time Baby's statement. The 'affects in other dimensions' also add up to 'three rifts appeared in other dimensions'. Can't really translate that to AP at all since it'd just be range (and accidental range at that).

Phoenks said:
I don't know why you refer to this as a "sole justification" when that couldn't be farther from the case. You yourself refer to multiple 2-A arguments in this message.

Anyway, so you're using your own assumption to say Bill threatens the multiverse by travelling? This is a faulty line of logic since he would need infinite range and bare minimum Low 2-C to do such a thing. Which he doesn't have. 2-A is the only other option if he wants to threaten it's existence.

The claim that Bill only threatens to cause mayhem and chaos is also faulty since Time Baby confirms his very existence is already threatening to erase everything. So taking it as meaning destruction is the safest and most backed assumption.

"Likely" in your eyes won't cut it in this case.
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Bill threatens the multiverse because everywhere he goes, he's bringing the lawless nature of the Nightmare Realm with him. Ford said that the realm's said lawlessness would cause it to self-destruct, and the rift causes the nightmare realm to spill into Dimension 46, which is extremely likely to be what Time Baby is referring to with "if your rip in this dimension continues, it could destroy existence". Bill can only travel to other dimensions using the rift, which would cause the nightmare realm to spill into them. When I refer to Bill traveling, it's with the rift.

Also, Bill doesn't need infinite range to threaten the multiverse? Going around wrecking havoc across the multiverse, causing dimensions to explode, forever (bill doesn't age) sounds like a pretty big threat lol.

You have to remember that being a 'threat' means that you're something that's likely to cause damage or danger. Bill destroying dimensions forever would make him a threat even if he can't actually blowup the entire cosmology.

Also Time Baby doesn't confirm that his existence is already threatening to erase everything. Time Baby very explicitly attributes it to the rift.

Phoenks said:
Can you prove that? Because, as mentioned above, the 'fabric of existence' is a very particular line that isn't ever used to refer to a single universe.
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Why not? Time Baby doesn't have any dominion over multiple dimensions. As mentioned above in the earlier example, 'he could destroy existence!' in of itself isn't good enough to extrapolate said destruction to being anything higher than 3-A.
Phoenks said:
Still, "the fabric of existence" should bare-minimum be Low 2-C. Especially when this a statement coming from the Time Police, who say he is violating the laws of space-time.

Combine that with the evidence we already have of Bill directly affecting time in Gravity Falls, and the fact that his rip reached to other dimensions in the multiverse, and you get a feat that can not reasonably be scaled to 3-A.
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But what is the feat? Time Baby attributes the universe's destruction to the rift because the Nightmare Realm would eventually destroy itself and that dimension. At absolute best you could say Bill's law manip was helping cause that but that still isn't a feat. And the rip didn't reach other dimensions: it just created a handful of other rifts as a byproduct. This is just how rifts work, because the rift itself was a byproduct of a portal, it has nothing to do with Bill's actual power.

Phoenks said:
Anyway, the main proof for the Nightmare Realm stems from Bill shaking it.
Click to expand...
Where is this from?
 
DaReaperMan said:
I don't see shit backing up your claim that it'd kill Bill outright here...
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Stanford was extremely confident that it'd kill Bill since it's a quantum destabilizer and Bill is a being of quantum uncertainty, which is already great evidence since Ford is a Supergenius and has been studying Bill for several years at this point. Additionally, from a meta perspective if the weapon wasn't able to kill Bill, it would have been simply shown...not working. Why have a scene of it missing, going as far as to show that it needs to be focused in on his actual triangle shape, if not because it would have been effective had it hit?
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I agree with Abstractions and Ayewale’s PnA evaluations (with the exception of his Mindscape self’s Telepathy and his Intangibility, both of which I think checks out).
Click to expand...
So you agree Bill doesnt have Precognition and Non Combat Plot Manipulation?? I dont see how changing an aspect of the show (intro) not Plot hax
 
Ayewale said:
Stanford was extremely confident that it'd kill Bill since it's a quantum destabilizer and Bill is a being of quantum uncertainty, which is already great evidence since Ford is a Supergenius and has been studying Bill for several years at this point. Additionally, from a meta perspective if the weapon wasn't able to kill Bill, it would have been simply shown...not working. Why have a scene of it missing, going as far as to show that it needs to be focused in on his actual triangle shape, if not because it would have been effective had it hit?
Click to expand...
In the Journal 3 Ford says he finally made the weapon that will blast Bill out of existence so it was likely planned to negate Bills Low-Godly

 
ShionAH said:
So you agree Bill doesnt have Precognition and Non Combat Plot Manipulation?? I dont see how changing an aspect of the show (intro) not Plot hax
Click to expand...
Ayewale said:
Changing an intro of a show doesn't really count for Plot Manipulation, especially since it's (to my knowledge) never actually acknowledged in the show itself.
Click to expand...
As for Precognition, based Ayewale’s examples from the show I’m also of the opinion it’s not very combat applicable.
 
So, @ShionAH, same as I told Strym I tell you. Tone it down now. You can debate without resorting to constant mockery. Explain your side, leave it to staff afterwards.
 
Would Bills RW and Weirdmageddon stuff be considered passive?
 
ShionAH said:
Would Bills RW and Weirdmageddon stuff be considered passive?
Click to expand...
No. He wasn’t shown doing anything passively as far as I can remember. He created the feramid, brought his friends, made the bubbles and made the weirdness waves.
 
Ayewale said:
No. He wasn’t shown doing anything passively as far as I can remember. He created the feramid, brought his friends, made the bubbles and made the weirdness waves.
Click to expand...
I think he meant making GF all weird when he came there.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I think he meant making GF all weird when he came there.
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Did it? When Bill arrived all that happened is that leaves started swirling and the rift made the sky red.

the only thing you could maybe argue is passive are the weirdness waves but you could also that just comes from the nightmare realm spilling into ours.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Every pulse from the rift made Gravity Falls "weird", so there's that. That's more overtime though.
Click to expand...
What? Where this from? Gravity Falls was already weird, that is because of it being a weirdness magnet. If you mean the environmental effects, that was pretty much all bill and his goons. Or just bill.
 
Ayewale said:
What? Where this from? Gravity Falls was already weird, that is because of it being a weirdness magnet. If you mean the environmental effects, that was pretty much all bill and his goons. Or just bill.
Click to expand...
I meant "weird" as in Weirdmageddon weird, not regular GF weird.
 
Ayewale said:
From everything I can find on the wiki this isn’t true, the objects only started transforming because of the weirdness waves.
Click to expand...
3:41

Is that pulse wave thing attack from Bill or Rift? It made the water tower come to life before Bill did anything to it
 
Is the wording on the sandbox what people argue for tier 1 or do they already agree that part of it is wrong?
 
StrymULTRA said:
for now.
Click to expand...
maxresdefault.jpg
 
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