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Weiss vs Garou (Two white haired teens fight one another)

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WeeklyBattles said:
She does yes, i can post scansif youd like, Weiss 90% of the time range spams

Already explained that her dura neg doesnt work on people that have Aura

Definitely going to need proof of that
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1. Not in this key she doesn't. Before Atlas she does still involve herself in CQC at certain points. She's definitely not a literal mage like she is in V7-9. This, plus Garou's vastly superior Acribatics, Afterimages, and Analytical Prediction allows Garou to get in close at least once

2. This feat against the Grimm isn't a byproduct of all her Ice attacks, it's a specific attack. It's not like Garou just gets incapped by touching her ice

3. Garou's AP advantage and fighting style makes it so that Weiss would get a dozen punches to the face the instant Garou gets remotely close. Any attempt at a counterattack either gets reflected by Water Streaming Rock Crushing Fist or stopped by either Instinctive Reaction and/or Analytical Prediction and grabbing her hand before she does anything.

What's stopping Garou from picking up rocks or debris off the ground and just chucking them at Weiss? He has the lifting strength for it, and ngl it's kinda common sense that anyone would do so if they're getting ranged camped. Sure, Weiss can probably block it, but it's not exactly out of character for Garou to do if he's forced into a situation where he's getting range camped into oblivion. His AP kinda makes those hard to block also (I'm not claiming this to be a wincon, but it's just something he might be capable of doing)
 
Mickey1940 said:
What's stopping Garou from picking up rocks or debris off the ground and just chucking them at Weiss? He has the lifting strength for it, and ngl it's kinda common sense that anyone would do so if they're getting ranged camped. Sure, Weiss can probably block it, but it's not exactly out of character for Garou to do if he's forced into a situation where he's getting range camped into oblivion. His AP kinda makes those hard to block also (I'm not claiming this to be a wincon, but it's just something he might be capable of doing)
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I should also mention he has done stuff such as swung around large developed trees like baseball bat, so its not OOC for him to use his environment in a fight.
 
Mickey1940 said:
1. Not in this key she doesn't. Before Atlas she does still involve herself in CQC at certain points. She's definitely not a literal mage like she is in V7-9. This, plus Garou's vastly superior Acribatics, Afterimages, and Analytical Prediction allows Garou to get in close at least once
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Im not sure what show you watched but Weiss was a nearly full mage all the way up to volume 7. It was only after that that she started doing more CQC. And definitely going to need scans that he has better acrobatics.
Mickey1940 said:
2. This feat against the Grimm isn't a byproduct of all her Ice attacks, it's a specific attack. It's not like Garou just gets incapped by touching her ice
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Not sure why youre trying to argue this, no one even argued that all of her ice does that
Mickey1940 said:
3. Garou's AP advantage and fighting style makes it so that Weiss would get a dozen punches to the face the instant Garou gets remotely close. Any attempt at a counterattack either gets reflected by Water Streaming Rock Crushing Fist or stopped by either Instinctive Reaction and/or Analytical Prediction and grabbing her hand before she does anything.
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Speed is equalized and, as agreed on above, there comparable in skill, with Weiss having more experience. The second he gets close he gets launched by a repulsion glyph or frozen by Weiss' close range ice, or for Weiss to just launch herself with a glyph. Garou trying to counterattack gets him ****** over big time, coming in contact with the countermeasures is exactly what Weiss would want. Touch her repulsion glyph? Launched. Touch her sword to try to redirect it? Frozen. Be near her when she uses Nova? Frozen. And the best part is she doesnt need to move her hands to use her Glyphs, theyre thought-based.
Mickey1940 said:
What's stopping Garou from picking up rocks or debris off the ground and just chucking them at Weiss? He has the lifting strength for it, and ngl it's kinda common sense that anyone would do so if they're getting ranged camped. Sure, Weiss can probably block it, but it's not exactly out of character for Garou to do if he's forced into a situation where he's getting range camped into oblivion. His AP kinda makes those hard to block also (I'm not claiming this to be a wincon, but it's just something he might be capable of doing)
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Nothing is stopping him from doing that but at the same time nothing is stopping Weiss from just dodging or blocking them, she isnt going to just be standing still doing nothing.
 
Actually, you know what, I'm going to debunk the whole idea Weekly has that Weiss can somehow spam ranged attacks long enough to get the win. Im sorry but all these small disjoined replies are pissing me off so im going to one massive **** off post as to why Weiss can't outrange this fight.

First of all, the Summons
  • Weiss requires a considerable amount of time summon any creature in her arsenal, which is the reason why she created a ice barrier in her fight against Vernal, so that she could have time to summon the knight. Assuming SBA, Weiss would not be able to immediately attack Garou with them due to said cast time.
    • Also she can only make one Summon at a time, so she can't try and make more
  • The Summons themselves are mostly melee based so they'd have to be near Garou to damage him. They are capable of being teleported by Weiss once fully summoned, but Garou can probably work around them especially since Weiss usually has them at a large size, which the more acrobatic Hero Hunter can probably work around.
  • Finally, though the Summons do upscale from Weiss herself, Garou can still just defeat them personally. They are not indestructible as seen in Weiss fight against Vernal, and given that they take time to Summon, Weiss can't rely on them forever. Don't forget that Garou's speed and power would likely increase over the course of the fight, so not only would Weiss probably have less time to make more Summons, these Summons would become progressively weaker as well fighting the Hero Hunter
  • Also Creating Summons takes up some of Weiss's Aura, and even with Aura restoration items, Weiss will probably run out of Aura before Garou will be overwhelmed by Weiss's summons.
Secondly, the Glyphs.
  • The are NOT instantaneous, there are multiple scenes where they do take a split second to appear, which sure is pretty fast, but against someone who can instinctively dodge attacks or anaylze their foes attacks to better anticipate them? Its not even a contest.
  • Weiss primarily uses them for either Gravity traps, hopping around on them like platforms or creating Ice attacks, the last of which does require some time to cast the ice.
Finally, the Flash Freeze technique that Weekly claims is the instant win, as well as Weiss Weapon

Ok, so Weekly claims that the reason Weiss would win was the moment where she created two giant glyphs on the Griffon-Like Grimm, causing the wings to be frozen from the inside out and causing them to shatter. However, there are a lot of issues with this scene, or why it would not be a usable wincon.
  • Weiss did this to a Grimm monster with a giant wingspan, and generally any Glyph's Weiss creates on a surface have to be big enough support a diameter of more than one meter. Garou has the size of a normal human, so Weiss can't reliably create on Garou.
    • This is of course, assuming that Garou would even stand still long enough for Weiss to put one on him. As Garou is a melee fighter he would most likely be on the move and not allowing Weiss the time to concentrate and form a Glyph on him
  • It was done only one single time in the entire series and the only time in which Weiss Ice flash freezes someone, much less freeze them internally. Generally when Weiss uses Ice attacks, they are generally create as a means of making solid constructs or as solid projectiles, and generally don't carry the same property of flash Freezing like it did in that scene Weekly keeps mentioning.
  • Even if we assumed this was a normal thing Weiss can do, Weiss would not use the attack in character, or at least not immediately. She has only ever been shown doing the feat against a Grimm Monster, and its unlikely Weiss would use this technique on a human being, much less to kill someone with it. If she did, then the Lucky dude wouldn't have been the only Ace Ops member dead during their fight against RWBY.
  • Even if we assumed that Weiss would use it, aside from the fact that she couldn't reliably create one on Garou, the ice glyphs do take a a second to activate their effect even once created, and assuming Garou would be stupid enough to touch one, it wouldn't freeze him fast enough for him to be killed, so he could just jump off or away from it once he realises whats going on.
On that not about the feat, Weekly also claims if Garou was to grab Weiss Weapon, he would instantly be frozen due to Weiss Ice Dust based on the above feat, which is objectively false on so many levels.
  • Weiss CAN create ice without needing to create a glyph, but its generally done by stabbing the weapon into the ground and creating a sheet of ice from the point of the blade, implying that the ice is released through some sort of mechanism rather than through her semblance.
  • If Weiss weapon was capable of freezing him on contact like Weekly claims, then Weiss would have been able to finish most of her fights with a few strikes by destroying either freezing her opponent or her opponents weapons, which further demonstrates the flash freezing feat as an outlier.
  • Finally, this idea is done one the assumption that Garou would just grab the weapon from the blade, rather than by its handle or just by grabbing Weiss arm and disabling her from there. Whether Weiss can keep Garou at a distance is debatable, but once Garou gets into Melee range, nothing could stop him from taking Weiss weapon away as a form of handicapping her due to having superior LS to her, depriving her of both her weapon and the Dust she needs to use her Ice attacks. Not to mention he is really just more skilled than Weiss due to the amount of confirmed fighters and martial arts masters he scales to skillwise, so even if he didnt grab her weapon, skill wise he would be leaving her in the dust with both his martial arts skills, instinctive reactions, ability to analyze and identify an opponents weakpoints and his ability to disorient Weiss with afterimages.
I think that the idea that Weiss could keep him at a distance is done on a lot of assumptions, mainly by seeing the stats page for Weiss and not factoring fighting styles, physical capabilities or the limitations of any characters abilities, while the idea that Weiss flash freezes Garou is based on a feat that really does feel like an outlier, and based on a strategy that is full of limitations once things are thought through, and is too OOC for Weiss to use. I'm sorry if I sound spiteful, but aside from the fact that I hate these nonstop short replies, I feel like I should give a clear and concise reason on why I don't think Weiss wins this, even with her supposed advantages.

Anyways, you already know my vote, so I will be leaving it at that.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Im not sure what show you watched but Weiss was a nearly full mage all the way up to volume 7. It was only after that that she started doing more CQC. And definitely going to need scans that he has better acrobatics.

Not sure why youre trying to argue this, no one even argued that all of her ice does that

Speed is equalized and, as agreed on above, there comparable in skill, with Weiss having more experience. The second he gets close he gets launched by a repulsion glyph or frozen by Weiss' close range ice, or for Weiss to just launch herself with a glyph. Garou trying to counterattack gets him ****** over big time, coming in contact with the countermeasures is exactly what Weiss would want. Touch her repulsion glyph? Launched. Touch her sword to try to redirect it? Frozen. Be near her when she uses Nova? Frozen. And the best part is she doesnt need to move her hands to use her Glyphs, theyre thought-based.

Nothing is stopping him from doing that but at the same time nothing is stopping Weiss from just dodging or blocking them, she isnt going to just be standing still doing nothing.
Click to expand...
1. She didn't camp out the Arma Gigas, she didn't against the Boarbatusk, she didn't do it against the WF Lieutenant, she didn't start with it against Flynt, she didn't do it when training with Winter in the past, and she got bodied by Vernal when she tried it. She definitely still uses CQC more often than you'd think

2. Were you not arguing for internal freezing? She doesn't do that passively with her ice

3. Garou's RE allows him to outspeed Weiss after a period of time. The second he gets close Weiss is more likely to start swinging her sword instead of repulsion glyph, which will result in Garou rearranging her face.
Once again, Weiss's experience might be better in terms of quantity, but Garou more than makes up for it with vastly superior quality. His raw fighting ability is by default better via supernatural martial arts, being able to topple all of Bang's disciples, he can match his master skill wise (who has decades of experience), and he can instantly learn abilities on the fly. Not to mention his analytical prediction is way better than Weiss. There's really nothing Weiss can do at close ange that Garou can't just instantly neg or reverse on her besides Time Dilation (which Garou just REs past after a while) and Gravity (which Garou can dodge unless she forces him in place indefinitely, which she has never done and likely can't do)
If Garou tried blocking or redirecting Weiss's repulsion glyph, the same trick won't work twice due to analytical prediction and instinctive reaction. He's just gonna dodge it or use afterimages to avoid it
If Garou tries blocking her sword, then he's just gonna disarm her. At no point in the series has Weiss ever used her freezing in CQC with her rapier. Not to mention even if this were the case, Garou can redirect attacks without touching them, or he can just grab her arm and disarm her with his martial arts.
If Garou tries blocking whatever the **** Nova is, sure he can get frozen. Then Weiss just continues attacking him which will result in him just breaking out, defeating the purpose of the attack. Or he just breaks out normally. The best argument you can make with this is that she freezes his body to the point that it shatters, but that doesn't work unless she specifically crates glyphs on an opponent's body, nor is it in character for her to just murder human targets with it.

4. I know but Garou's AP advantage and gradually increasing speed means she's gonna have a hard time dodging or taking his attacks, despite the fact that this method of offense is primitive.

Overall unless Weiss uses Queen Lancer off the bat to just run the **** away, she really doesn't have anything that can keep Garou away long enough before his RE starts to kick in, and even if she does use Queen Lancer, Garou can use either use acrobatics or debris as projectiles and supplement those methods with his gradually increasing stats to knock it out of the air and beat her up when she lands
 
Hey, resident RWBY watcher here.

Weiss, with no knowledge, is gonna either go in for sword attacks using glyphs to propel herself, summon her knight, use an elemental attack from her sword or use glyphs to send ice projectiles at Garou.

She does not begin with gravity dust, or freezing, or camping out, if her opponent has given her no indication to do those. She rarely EVER does those things outside of 1 or 2 instances over YEARS. None of her ice attacks induce freezing outside of that instance with the Sphinx, and she’s more likely to use different dust elements like fire and wind before attempting to freeze someone that is dodging her attacks.

Garou beats the **** out of her 10/10 times in any scenario where she tries to fight him like she usually does. Projectile spam and summoning are the only things that prolong her defeat, but Garou adapting and skill gap = gg.
 
If the condition's of this fight weren't changed, I was afraid it was starting to look like a complete stomp after looking at how adamant people were that Garou would always just run up to Weiss and beat her to death lmao

Anyways, if Weiss has Prior knowledge on Garou being a threat close range, what's stopping her from building distance with smth like Time Dilation and then Summoning a Aerial Summon so she can outrange Garou?
 
Kachon123 said:
He doesn't even have enough AP to oneshot her.
Click to expand...
He might, honestly. Weiss scales a oneshot above 29.12 KT and Garou is >>>>>>>>>> 65.12 KT.
Doesn't really matter though because even if he doesn't one-shot, he's still so massively beyond her in terms of AP that he just beats her to paste.
 
SeijiSetto said:
He might, honestly. Weiss scales a oneshot above 29.12 KT and Garou is >>>>>>>>>> 65.12 KT.
Doesn't really matter though because even if he doesn't one-shot, he's still so massively beyond her in terms of AP that he just beats her to paste.
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Yeah hense why me saying just Weiss gets the knowledge

It's still fair, just way harder for Garou
 
Spinoirr said:
Yeah hense why me saying just Weiss gets the knowledge

It's still fair, just way harder for Garou
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Kachon123 said:
Unfollowing.
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Lmao yeah, same here. OP is the same person who made literally copied goku's dbz profile onto rwby and called it an F/OC, but I liked the matchup cause it was cool to analyse and dissect. That being said, I made my verdict with my first post and was only here to argue weekly's comments, so yeah im outtie. I say Garou wins this, dont @ me to change my mind.
 
A stomp occurs when a character doesn't have a wincon to beat the other, despite the difference in AP not being enough to give a one-shot, if Weiss has no answer to Garou losing 10/10 times that means it's a stomp match .


I'm withdrawing my vote for now, this game got too confusing.
 
FireSwordHero said:
Lmao yeah, same here. OP is the same person who made literally copied goku's dbz profile onto rwby and called it an F/OC, but I liked the matchup cause it was cool to analyse and dissect. That being said, I made my verdict with my first post and was only here to argue weekly's comments, so yeah im outtie. I say Garou wins this, dont @ me to change my mind.
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That's like complaining about literally any other dragon ball what if

It's a crossover what if au, what do you expect? They gain powers from the other series and events change for the story
 
I don't think this should be closed it isn't a stomp. Garou just wins a majority of the time.
 
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