Weather is try to eat a Udon

[ImusakuAnk]

Yes,why not?

Speed Equalized

Weather has Heavy Weather

Both are 1km apart

Both have prior knowledge





Weather :

Udo :

Thunder Mcqueen :

 

[ImusakuAnk]

Bump

 

[ImusakuAnk]

Bump

 

[Sarvaughan]

Does Weather have to touch for power null? Also does it apply to any ability or stand based ones?

 

[ImusakuAnk]

Yes,but not directly (He can powernull via light and snails)

Not really sure about abilities nulling

 

[ImusakuAnk]

Bump

 

[Sarvaughan]

Reisen does at least have experience with screwy weather and with prior knowledge would know to avoid it. Waiting for someone who knows more about Weather to comment

 

[Chariot190]

His powernull, transmutation, subliminal messaging and transmutation takes place within a at minimum, city wide radius (Likely planetary if he wanted). The effects happen in 3 different ways. Touch the snails (even slightly accident contact), touch the rainbows/light (same as above), or simply looking (Only way to avoid is being blind, closing your eyes doesn't work, looking in general fyi, all light coming in through the ozone effects). While it involves weather manip, it doesnt come off as abnormal much, it'd seem more like bug manip then anything initially.

All ways ultimately end up with the same result but ones quicker than others.

The way the powernull is described implies powers in general, it's the powers becoming snail like to match the user. Depends entirely on the power in question thugh probably.

There's a decent chance it'd take effect quite easily at 1km range, but if the fight was much closer he'd probably lose hard.

 

[Sarvaughan]

I only see snail contact working as Reisen can bend any of his light effects and null those. Does he have any conscious during this form (as vapor, clouds, etc.)?

 

[Chariot190]

What? you misunderstand, light, like all light refracted through the atmosphere. The moment the match starts it'd be to late because she'd have alrady have seen the light. The light isn't like a laser or flash of light, it's literally any and all light that comes through the earth's atmosphere, look outside right now, that type of light, the light that makes it day. She wouldn't know to do it till it's to late because once you see it you've already began turning, it's a slow process if it's just via seen light, but couple that with rainbows and snails, of which even slight accident contact is enough to nearly instant turn you, and if she does do that (albeit it'd be to late, the process cant be reversed by merely closing your eyes, the only character safe from it in story was Pucci, because he literally took away his own sense of sight, making him blind and he only knew to do that because he encountered it decades prior and did it before it really began) she'd have to refract all light in the area, effectively blinding her, in the literal sense given vision is based on light refacting off objects, which is what allows you to see those objects.

If you kill Weather things return to normal though, but at 1km, speed equal, and in character, I don't see that happening, as said if it was closer thee'd be a really good chance of winning but 1km speed equal against a character that doesn't use aoe and without prior knowledge, weather probably takes it, not everytime of course, just a bit more often than not in my opinion.

Also yeah, the effect is done via manipulating the ozone layer, and it's subconscious, he can't actually control this ability, it just happens passively at full power. It's always active and doesn't effect his form, state of being or conscious and mindset at all, as said it's a passive ut of control ability hat effects friend and foe alike. Even animals and other insects aren't safe. Should also note that the snails spawn out of basically nothing, hundreds and thousands of snails burst from walls, pipes, ceilings, vehicles, even the ground sometimes or out of objects in some cases.

Edit: Does he have any conscious during this form (as vapor, clouds, etc.)?

Do you mean his Stand? His Stand is a seperate entity from the user, he;s basically just a superhuman dude, his Stand though is what can change form, his Stand is sentient while in those states though, it's a spiritually non-corporal mass of clouds. His Stand also goes out of the way to protect him for what it's woryh, doesn't matter much in a fight against a foe with that type of AP but his Stand wouldn't even allow him to kill himself, because he tried, numerous times.

 

[Sarvaughan]

They both do in fact have prior knowledge. As soon as match starts Reien is able to manipulate all light waves in the area (her range is planetary as well), being able to cut off any coming from his ability. If Weather doesn't have any resistance to her powers he gets mind haxed just by looking at her. Considering her verse, dodging snails even if numurous would be fairly easy for her.

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, they both, have prior knowledge?

Then that doesn't really change anything, as said, Heavy Weather is passive, it's already active the moment the match starts due to being passive and automatic, the moment the match starts it's already to late. Refracting light the exact moment the match starts ain't gonna help because she'd have already seen the light, not only that but she'd be 100% completely blind to everything given she'd have to refract all light coming down to earth which would then make dodging any rainbows and snails impossible, given that kinda relies on being able to see them spawn out of thin air basically. (Plus I don't think she can refract light on a city to planetary wide scale).

The only thing prior knowledge does here is makes it so Weather knows not to engage in combat with her at all and to just stall and run away till the effect takes hold fully. And yes, I'm well aware that if Weather makes eye contact he's ******, but he's 1km away, he needs to actually see and make eyecontact, with prior knowledge he ain't gonna do that and at 1km he doesn't have to worry about accidentally doing it. Heavy Weather on the other hand effects everything within at least as wide an area as all of Florida passively, with the ability to hit planetary.

Prior knowledge doesn't help her here, it's actually kinda unfair.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Her mind manipulation isn't just eye contact. She can manipulate waves and still affect him. Considering her likely greater range, being able to reach the moon, he would get mind haxed from the get go. There is also no need to dodge the rainbows as well as the get null from light manipulation. Her madness power also screws with the mind to make it hard to focus and use abilities.

 

[Chariot190]

And she's done this to someone, mind haxing them, from over 1km, hell you'd think she'd have to at least be able to see him to do it. But if she has, when exactly? But again, he has prior knowledge, but unlike her, he can actually make use of it as her ax isn't passive.

Don't forget her abilities slowly get nulled and changed as well, it'd be a tough call to say she can do that properly after being effected, because mind you, no matter how you slice it, she's getting effected first, Heavy Weather is passive, there's no type of attack or action that has to be made, she still has to actively decide and then proceed to user her hax, Weather doesn't need to do that. Rainbows aren't the troublesome part, it's the snails.

Also wouldn't matter, as said, it's passive, automatic and he doesn't control it all, he doesn't need to focus, in fact he wishes he could stop it but can't. Screwing with his mind isn't going to stop the ability, he has zero control or focus over it, it's active even when he's not using his powers or Stand. At best it'd end up being a draw, but then again, his Stand is a seperate entity, it'd probably protect or at least move him away till the foe is incapicated. Actually making him lose focus would probably end up with his Stand frying the earth given his focus is what keeps it from doing extremely dangerous and lethal things. (Also mind you, he has other long range durability negating powers, heavy weather is just the passive and most famous one).

If she can manage to mindhax him from 1km away, while he knows to avoid getting mindhaxed, while being slowly effected by Heavy Weather (It's passive and once it starts it can't be reversed even if you close your eyes, go blind, etc) it'd probably be an inconclusive given him not being able to control or focus the power has literally zero effect on it. and his Stand would probably still cover for his ass, or worse, go wild and fry the planet.

 

[Sarvaughan]

She does infact use her powers like this in spell card duels. She uses the her psychic link to shoots waves in the atmosphere. Snails likely can't even touch her since she has multiple forms of force fields and Reisen can be passively immune to wave based powers including light and sound. Reisen, likely being able to see, damage, and hax the stand and can take it out as well. Stands to my knowledge still are open to being affected by abilities.

 

[Chariot190]

But never to mind hax an opponent right? Because I can't place a single time she's done so like that. Also that didn't really answer the question of wouldn't she actually have to know where he is exactly to pinpoint and mindhax him at such a distance?

And then the forcefields get snailed, the snails effect powers as well, it's why he was power null, forcefields probbl;y ain't gonna be much help if at all. These snails also have non-physical interaction for what it's worth.

Can be, but she isn't not without prep time. She starts off in her default state, she has to actively use her powers to make herself immune to said abilities but the catch is, literally doesn't matter in the slightest, match starts and she's already effected. Once effected simply removing the light (which as said, would completely blind her and remove her eyesight) won't change anything, it's already taken root.

> Reisen, likely being able to see, damage, and hax the stand and can take it out as well. Stands to my knowledge still are open to being affected by abilities.

Depends, Stands are invisible to ghosts, which are in turn invisible to normal humans. Stands are working on two layers of invisibility. And as for their non-corporality, while she can attack ghosts and all that, has she ever actually mindhaxed anything made up of non-corporal, intangible, energy and (on top of elemental intangibility that's also non-corporal on top of that) spiritual clouds that doesn't actually have anything like a brain or anything like that? Stands for the most part are immune to things that can't effect non-corporal spirits. And before you bring up youkai, youkai actually do exist in JoJo, hell there's even a moon rabbit that comes down once a year to kill a family with curses and supernatural bad luck. Also wouldn't stop Heavy Weather, only literally removing the ability from him physically (Whitesnake turned it into a disc and hid it away) or killing him stops it, it's completely automatic and out of control.

Also to note, pretty sure that she can't refract a city's worth of light, she may have decent range but range=/=AOE.

Edit: Also the fact Weather can manipulate light kinda counters her ability to manipulate it, nothing is really stopping him from just, re-refracting it.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Spellcard "Lunatic eye Circular Moon" shoots waves into the sky. Considering she uses psychic waves, she can uses madness ones as well. She knows exactly where he is. They start 1 km apart. Unless he can teleport to avoid atmospheric waves, he can get hit.

Have the snails ever bypass shields before? Even if they can the affect is still slow not canceling them immediately. Poison manipulation on Reisen's part also kills any snails trying to get near.

Reisen doesn't have to be prepped for her wave immunity. She was unaffected by Koishi passive hax and 3 fairy's abilities. If his ability affects light in the atmosphere, Reisen resists it. What other attacks does he have that can bypass shields?

Even if he could outrange her in light manipulation, it doesn't stop any of it not reaching her in the area. It just f's up anything else in the vicinity.

Also about affecting the stand she can in fact manipulate non corporal minds seeing she fights other youkai and is an incident solver. Stands never show to have any mind hax resistance unless it's apart of its specific ability kit. Trying to equate JoJo youkai to touhou is like equating Digimon to Pokemon.

 

[Chariot190]

No, she knows his general location, unless you an prove her madness manip

>Have the snails ever bypass shields before? Even if they can the affect is still slow not canceling them immediately. Poison manipulation on Reisen's part also kills any snails trying to get near.

The snails have power nullification, don't gotta bypass the forcefields when upon contact it gets screwed up, doesn't work right and possibly outright nulled. The effects when touching it are instant actually, it's seeing the light that's overtime, contact with the snails though? That's instantaneous ******. Poison killing the snails doesn't help because it's mere contact that triggers it, whether be alive or dead isn't gonna change that, otherwise punching the snails on contact or crushing them would have been a viable solution, plus they spawn out of almost nothing and are numbered in the millions if not billions overall, appearing in swarms of hundreds to thousands.

>Reisen doesn't have to be prepped for her wave immunity. She was unaffected by Koishi passive hax and 3 fairy's abilities. If his ability affects light in the atmosphere, Reisen resists it. What other attacks does he have that can bypass shields?

I don't think you understand how this works, it's not the light that is actually causing the hax, it's herself that is. It's invisible subliminal messaging that convinces the subconscious that they are indeed a snail, and thus the body believes it so much it physically starts becoming one. His ability effects the ozone layer, which in turn effects the light, which when viewed, even for an instant, begins the effects. She doesn't resist what is needed to actually ignore this hax, given how obtuse it is and oddly specific it is. She can resist light manip, but she doesn'tresist what basically amounts to extremely potent social influencing that can powernull, transmutate and render the mind null. Also the 3 fairy's hax isn't exactly comparable or a fair analogy, Koishi's hax is a good example though, works much more closely to how Heavy Weather works in functio, it's the method that's different though.

>Even if he could outrange her in light manipulation, it doesn't stop any of it not reaching her in the area. It just f's up anything else in the vicinity.

As said, this ain't even a matter of range, it's a matter of AOE, HA Dio can spawn a tornado under someone from a billion kilometers away but he can't make a billion kilometer wide tornado, she can effect waves at a large distance but it doesn't mean she can manipulate waves in a huge aoe. In order to actually stop it, she'd have to completely 100% absolutely render herself blind, as all light in the atmosphere is effected by this, she'd have to refract all light in the atmosphere, not some, but all of it, because if she so much as glances at the light, it'd activate. And in case you need a anatomy study, here's a copypaste,

To be able to see anything, eyes first need to process light. Vision begins with light passing through the cornea, which does about three-quarters of the focusing, and then the lens, which adjusts the focus. Both combine to produce a clear image of the visual world on a sheet of photoreceptors called the retina, which is part of the central nervous system but located at the back of the eye.Photoreceptors gather visual information by absorbing light and sending electrical signals to other retinal neurons for initial processing and integration. The signals are then sent via the optic nerve to other parts of brain, which ultimately processes the image and allows us to see.

Which is exactly how Heavy Weather is treated in context, simply having eyesight at all screws you because you see the light because all light in the location is effected, if she so much as sees anything, at all, basically if she looks, she'd be effected and closing eyes don't work so reminder on that. And mind you, this won't happen because the fight starts off in Central Park as per SBA, in the middle of the day as per SBA, and unless she starts off with her eyes closed, which isn't how this works (Even then closing your eyes isn't supposed to work, you have to actually be blind), it'd trigger the moment the match begins and being resistant to light manip doesn't stop it because it isn't the light that's doing the hax, it's seeing the light and being influenced the invisible pictures and formations that the light takes shape in and is refracted into that starts it and again, once it starts, it's permanent unless Weather is killed. Refracting it after it started doesn't help those already inflicted.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Her madness waves spread out. Unless he can dodge planet to moon reaching waves, he's getting hit.

The ability still affects the light. She is immune to the medium required to affect her in the first place. Weather makes it so viewing anything in the area is affected, but if she doesn't even view the world as the way Weather makes it through light, it doesn't reach her. It also states it "convinces the viewer it's a snail" , yet Reisen resist mind manipulation. Just as you said, Koishi passively makes people unable to perceive her on the subconscious level, yet Reisen sees through her perfectly fine. You act as if Reisen is just immune to light hitting her. She's immune to wave manipulation itself whether it's light, sound, radar, and brain.

 

[Chariot190]

She resists light manipulation, which helps her how exactly? I really don't think you understand how this power works, it's not the light that does any of the hax, it's seeing that does it and she can see, and again, unless she makes herself 100% absolutely blind before the match begins, she'd see it, and get effected, because she doesn't resist the method in which the power takes effect, it's social influencing, says right on the profile. Weather makes it so if you physically have eyes and can see you're effected.

Go outside right now, or don't, the mere act of you being able to see in the first place activates it as all light in the area is refracted (All light that comes in through the ozone layer) in such a way that simply seeing anything activates it. Unless she's blind, or you're unironically trying to say that she'd have refracted all light literally the instant the match starts before she can register and perceive anything, it'd effect her, because she can see, ergo she'd have seen the light, as that what allows her to see in the first place, and she'd be influenced into believing something.

She resists mind manipulation, this isn't mind manipulation, the mind manipulation comes from the brain eventually turning into that of a snail's, but it's not mind manipulation that actually makes one believe they're a snail, it's mind manipulation via biologically transmutating the mind, she doesn't resist Social Influencing, which is what triggers all the changes. Unless you're trying to insinuate she can't be convinced by anything, it'd work fine, it's not forcing or effecting the mind (Initially, the mind only gets effected because literal snail brain eventually, which is something she'd be susceptible to actually, she doesn't resist transmutation). You can't reasonably say Doctor Doom or someone wouldn't be able to convince her of something, that's what Heavy Weather does, it convinces you, you can be aware of what it's doing and know full well you aren't a snail, but it's the body that believes it anyway.

> You act as if Reisen is just immune to light hitting her.

No you're acting like that, the light doesn't need to hit her, the mere act of seeing, like, at all, having eyesight in general, activates it because all light that makes the world visible is what causes it, if she can see it's already to late, the prerequisite for the ability is seeing in general, unless she sees in a different way than a human, ie she doesn't have photoreceptors or sees via light bouncing off objects, ou'd have a point. But that isn't how she sees the world.

>She's immune to wave manipulation itself whether it's light, sound, radar, and brain.

Yes, and what part of that allows her to resist social influencing?

> Just as you said, Koishi passively makes people unable to perceive her on the subconscious level

I said it was similar but the method in which they apply it is strictly different, one's mind manipulation, one isn't. If Heavy Weather triggered things by ind manip, well this would be a mismatch, but it doesn't, I already said much earlier the ability is extremely obtuse in its mechanis, actually pretty sure Weather is the only offensive social influencer on the site, where it's actually an ability that can kill people. And yes, it's social influencingstrictly and not mind manip, it's been brought up numerous times before, it's mechanically quite different.

 

[Sarvaughan]

So basically you're saying the weather is talking to her and telling her she's a snail? So it makes her believe something that she knows is outright untrue? That sounds a lot like manipulating the mind and forcing it it believe something no matter how you cut it. You're also blowing his ability way out of proportion as if seeing anything in general light is affected. It's only the rainbows he creates. He has to bend light to create the rainbows, Reisen isn't just teleported into an area which makes her a snail. She then skill stomps him in wave manipulation and can block out any retracted light in the area. He nor the stand can see any wave attacks she proceeds with.

 

[Chariot190]

Don't strawman, surely you're better than that? Whether you like or not or agree with it, it's explicitly social influencing, Social Influencing. It's not manipulating the mind, but it's convincing it of something, Is that mind hax? No, because it isn't directly effecting the mind in anyway. It's different than how Koishi performs her abilities, are they similiar? Yes definitely, but are they the same? Not even close.

In fact the profile even has a note on the subject. Because this ain't anthing new.

Heavy Weather uses visible light to send the message of snails to one's subconscious. The victim then is convinced through their own volition that they are a snail. Since the ability heavily relies on the opponent's belief that they are a snail, and they can be convinced otherwise through subconscious thought, it is more a form of Social Influencing than Mind Manipulation.

> You're also blowing his ability way out of proportion as if seeing anything in general light is affected. I

Uh, that's exactly how it works?

In case you somehow missed like the first post I said, there's 3 distinct methods. Rainbows, which I already said, snails themselves or simply seeing in general as all light that passes through the ozone is changed to trigger the effect.
> He has to bend light to create the rainbows, Reisen isn't just teleported into an area which makes her a snail.

I mean, technically speaking, she is though. It's passive and automatic, it's always active in this state and out of conrol. He doesn't have to bend light because it's automatic, passive and he has absolutely no control over it. If Weather is so much as with several dozen kilometers of the area, then yes, the area is snail inflicted.

>She then skill stomps him in wave manipulation and can block out any retracted light in the area. He nor the stand can see any wave attacks she proceeds with.

Being more skilled means absolutely nothing, hell all she really has to do is hit him but then again, you actually think skill matters in this match? It doesn't, not with standing that Heavy Weather cripples the target making even physical movements nearly impossible when it gets deep into the transmutation. But she manipulates the light, ain't gonna help her given she'd already be infliced, I don't know how many times you need to be old this but once seen it can't be stopped. She refracts the light, ok then what? It's not going to fix her or stop the transformation if that's what you think, only killing Weather ceases it. Also you're acting like her light manip cancels out the ability, it goes bith ways, while it's passive and automatic, if manually changed by an outside force nothing is stopping the Stand from going no and changing it back, especially for a few reasons.

1. Every single nanosecond more light comes in, it's constant, she'd have to destroy the sun and then wait like 8 minutes. She can't manipulate the ozone layer, which is why the light is being changed in the first place, she can refract it , but the moment light enters earth it's going to changed via Heavy Weather, even if it's only for an incredibly small amunt of time, it'd be changed and she can't stop it because she can't actually effect why it's happening, she could refract the light before it enters and after it enters but in the small window when it's entering.

2. The Stand could just manually change it back, at best they stalemate.

3. Still doubt she can manipulate a city's worth of light, as said range ain't AOE and she hasn't shown that type of AOE.

 

[Sarvaughan]

It states it sends thoughts subconsciously to the viewer. Meaning it wouldn't reach her at all considering Koishi's power didn't affect her. In order to "convince her" it has to get to her mind in the first place.

I apologise about the light thing. Didn't state it on his profile how it worked and didn't see the scan until you showed it so you're right about that.

Seeing that the social influence has to reach her subconsciously and it wouldn't, the light wouldn't make any difference in the end.

Reisen isn't some land based fighter that simply maneuvers on the ground. She has flight to avoid any physical snails and she dodges danmaku for a living. It won't be so easy as it being numerous snails appearing around and she happens to touch one. Is there any instance of a snail simply touching something and nulling it? Or do they have to come in contact with the user to prevent them from using said ability? Unless they can move through shields made from natural waves they still wouldn't be getting close to Reisen.

Reisen's ability can cover an entire forest (that is large enough to easily get lost in) that's she's only assigned to guard. It's safe to say it has an aoe at minimum to cover Times Square.

 

[Chariot190]

It's subliminal messaging, it's a real thing dude. It isn't some magical power (well Heavy Weather kinda is, but the method in which t takes effect, isn't), it's the exact reason why we don't treat it as mind manipulation. Does it effect the mind? Yes, in the simplest terms possible, but you could say the same about watching a trailer or a TV commercial or a review. it isn't something she resists though, because it's not manipulating her mind or manipulating her thoughts via any supernatural means. It's just super ultra good social influencing that ca lead to supernatural things, but it itself is not.

Ok.

>Seeing that the social influence has to reach her subconsciously and it wouldn't, the light wouldn't make any difference in the end.

Do you not know what subliminal messaging is? Here, it's an actual thing, Weather Report just has a suped up version of it. She resists actual mind hax, social influening? She does not. What you're effectively saying is that she can't be persuaded or convinced of something, yet me and you both know for a fact she can and has, was it through mindhax? No, same here. The reason why it effects the subconscious aint because of super mind hax trick or an attack on the subconscious, it's because it's happening below the target's sense of awareness without them realizing it, as said, it's a real phenomana, you can look into i a bit more if you wish. Even if she knew, which she does here, it doesn't help because she can't actually prevent the stimuli from effecting her, not because she doesn't resist mindhax, but because this ain't mindhax to begin with.

I'm aware of what she is and how she fights, and it'd help out initially.

> Is there any instance of a snail simply touching something and nulling it?

If I recall it straight up ****** Ermes Stand, even having snails explode out from within it, not to mention they made a huge effort to not touch the snails, at all, even with their Stands. So yeah plus being a narrative point, that if they touch some sort of ability, it can get snailed.

>Unless they can move through shields made from natural waves they still wouldn't be getting close to Reisen.

Again, the effects **** with one's ability to use their powers, they get a snail version of it, on top of becoming much slower, becoming a literal snail, and unable to control their body as well as their rendering physical attacks ineffective. I stand by the fact she would be effected, which would interfere with her ability to do some things and eventually incap completely if she doesn't kill Weather in time, issue though is that it snowballs, being effected makes it much less difficult for the rainbows and snails to get to her. Eventuall she'd lose the ability to fly as well, given snails can't fly.

>Reisen's ability can cover an entire forest (that is large enough to easily get lost in) that's she's only assigned to guard. It's safe to say it has an aoe at minimum to cover Times Square.

Yes, I'm aware of the bamboo forest of the lost, issue is that, well, Heavy Weather effects everything within at least a aoe as large as Florida, Weather knows not to engage with her due to prior knowledge, he's going to try and slip away and stall while using his planetary range to distract or make it far more difficult to actually reach him, of course he can't actually harm her (Although gusts of vapor can negate durability, makes someone pour water out of their body and blow up like a balloon), it'd still be enough to be a nuisance and stall for time. But also given he's increasing the distance between them, it'd be far more than Times Square, and quickly at that. And as said, there's the issue of how good and precise her mindhac would be at that range, even if she can do that far she'd likely still have to know where to actually effect, plus if it'd work 100% right due to the developing snail issue.

 

[Sarvaughan]

It still is an ability which literally has to affect the subconscious. It has to first of all reach their mind, in turn making them believe it. There is no cut away version. It's the specific way heavy weather does this. If it told he victim verbally? Maybe. But no. It has to transfer itself to their mind. Koishi in no way attacks the person's mind to make them think she isn't there. It's exactly the same way HW has to implant that subconscious thought.

There is still no instance of snails going through shields. The fact they can affect stands proves my point it has to contact the user still as whatever happens to the stand transfers to the user. If jotaro stopped time and the snails were in that timespace, would it make him "snailified"? Would they negate a wall created by an earthbender and snailify them? Doubt it.

 

[Chariot190]

I seriously hope you're joking, I really honestly do because that isn't a rebuttal, you're effectively just saying she's immune to subliminal messaging when she has no feats that suggest it and has shown susceptible to being convinced and persuaded to do things, which is all HW is doing to intiate the effects, does she resist having her subconscious tampered with? Yes, but does se resist it in every known way in existence and from an ability that for all intents and purposes ain't mind hax at all but rather just really good hinting and nudging, no, no she does not. There's a reason why there's a note on the page outright saying it isn't mind hax, because it isn't, theyre two very different powers that while they have a similiar end result in some cases, aren't at all equilavent with each other. Either you don't know what subliminal messaging is or what it does but she doesn't resist that. Does it effect the subconscious? Yes. How? In a way she has no resistance towards, at all and it doesn't actually tamper with it, it'd be no different than if she was walking across the street, saw something in the corner of her eye but didn't really pick up on it but later on in the day she decided she wanted some mochi because what she walked by was a mochi stand and she didn't really give it a second thought but her seeing it still influenced what she wanted to do later that day. Unless you can find a can saying Koishi is subliminal messaging opposed to direct interference with the subconscious (Which pretty sure that' what it's treated as), it ain't an actual counterpoint. As said, this is an actual real thing, HW just has it on steroids, this isn't a supernatural method to inflict a status.

>Koishi in no way attacks the person's mind to make them think she isn't there. It's exactly the same way HW has to implant that subconscious thought.

Except her ability specifically targets the subconcious to do so, HW does not, it effects the subconscious, but not in the way you're thinking and it should be blatantly obvious at this point. No it's not exactly the same way, you're factually incorrect on that point, HW does it through subliminal messaging, Koishi does not. Ergo it isn't the exact same way and thinking it is would be factually wrong.

>There is still no instance of snails going through shields. The fact they can affect stands proves my point it has to contact the user still as whatever happens to the stand transfers to the user. If jotaro stopped time and the snails were in that timespace, would it make him "snailified"? Would they negate a wall created by an earthbender? Doubt it.

They don't need to go through the shields, they just have to null it, and then when it's nulled they'd fall through it because it isn't there or it's snailed (But then again, snails literally burst out from within Ermes' Stand Kiss, there's a possibility snail would explode out of the forcefield). The snails would touch the shield, and screw with it, likeling rendering it useless, this shouldn't be difficult to understand. Touching a Stand isn't touching the user, I have no idea where you're drawing that conclusion from, but you're wrong.A Stand is a projection of spiritual energy, the snails can fck with something on that caliber. If the snails touched Star Platinum but not Jotaro, it would snail him, and snail his time stop ability. Would snails existing in the time stop null it? No, but that's not because they don't have powernull, that'd be because they can't interact with the concept of time on a universal scale, not to mention time would be stopped, they're ability to null wouldn't activate as time isn't flowing. Forcefields are a thing the snails can actually touch, it's a power, it's a power that fo all intents and purposes they can null. Would a snail touching a wall made by an earthbender get snailed? No, because they're touching the earth, the earth bender just manipulated the ground, and the ground doesn't qualify as a power. Her forcefelds are an actual power and not just rocks reshaped, you're drawing a false equilavence to further your point but said basis relies on a false analogy. Although snails could possibly burst out from within the manipulated ground

 

[Sarvaughan]

I get having the image of a snail in your mind. I understand it being in your subconscious. But that fact it causes you to believe you're snail, no matter if it's your own thoughts is still stemming from it making you believe it in the first place. No normal person is going to see a snail, then think, "hey I'm a snail" unless it was somehow tweaked in their mind to believe so.

Reisen's wave power affects natural ones in the world. If she makes a barrier by manipulating sound it wouldn't get negated just how an erected earth wall wouldn't as you said.

Honestly I would rather just wait for more input from others than to go back and forth leading nowhere. Especially on how Koishi's power really would be equate to HW's.

 

[Chariot190]

Yes, subliminal messaging. I really think you don't know what it is because it's literally all it's doing. Does it have supernatural effects? Oh yes definitely, but that's simply how it works, you're extrapolating it to be what it really isn't, would someone think theyre a snail by seeing a picture of one? No, but it's JoJo, physical bodily changes through things that realistically wouldn't do anything is commonplace. HW has such good subliminal messaging that the body itself thinks it's becoming a snail so it physically becomes one. It is quite literally no different than the example I gave above with mochi and things, in fact pretty sure I could find an example of her being swayed by something subliminally in inaba of the earth and moon, nothing drastic, but just something tat says that yes, she's susceptible to gesturing and subliminal effects like basically anyone else. It's what it is, if you do not like it, go ahead and make a CT to change it to mind manip or something. Or go ahead and give him it. You'll be shot down though because we've been through this so many times there's even a note on the profile saying otherwise.

>If she makes a barrier by manipulating sound it wouldn't get negated just how an erected earth wall wouldn't as you said.

I also said the wall would likely explode with snails too. Given the snails can burst from something even less tangible than sound.

I almost agreed with you there untill you said Especially on how Koishi's power really would be equate to HW's.. Either get the scans, and change Koishi's mind manip to something else because if they are the same, it wouldn't be mind manip. Not withstanding last I checked it's done via explicitly manipulating the subconscious directly.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Didn't state it DOES equate. Saying would I would wait for input on how it is compared to HW's ability

 

[Chariot190]

I mean maybe you worded it wrong but you did state that. Given I wasn't paraphrasing you claim, I copy and pasted it.

 

[Sarvaughan]

It was just the way worded. Said "how it equates". Just meant how it could compare to it. Meant nothing else by it.

 

[Sarvaughan]

So really I would just want other's input on

1. Whether HW's light would reach Reisen

2. If the message would reach and/or affect her