We need to stop taking the word "concept" at face value (Satoru Gojo CM removal)

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yes you were lol, me and confluctor had not finished our debate by that point and him leaving the debate was solely due to him not wanting to work on the wiki, not because he did not want to continue. Duedate was therefore the only mod available and a site admin gave blessing for its application to be applied.

Confluctor, while still being a staff, straight up said that it sounded like space hax instead of actual concept manip, and that was his last post in the matter, so he until the end disagreed with it, so it was one agreement and one rejection, that's obviously not enough to apply something as big as concept manip (specially when Ant says that what both staff accepted could be applied), the ability was added in bad faith and without following the proper procedures so that alone is already enough reason to remove it.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

And that's 2 agreements. This is basically done right?

 

[Deagonx]

And I will point out that Duedate didn't even specifically agree with CM, he gave a blanket "the rest seems fine." It's odd that this was applied from such a non-committal agreement from a single staff member.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

And that's 2 agreements. This is basically done right?

Before apply a revision and close a thread it's needed that at least 48 hours pass first since that give time to opposition to respond and more people to participate in the debate (basically, don't rush things).

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Before apply a revision and close a thread it's needed that at least 8 hours pass first since that give time to opposition to respond and more people to participate in the debate (basically, don't rush things).

I mean the grace is 48 hours but I basically meant with the current votes it's over.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

And I will point out that Duedate didn't even specifically agree with CM, he gave a blanket "the rest seems fine." It's odd that this was applied from such a non-committal agreement from a single staff member.

A.) It was never applied because I don't edit the wiki.
B.) duedate is well aware of this upgrade as it was a crux of the whole thread, so the idea that you think Duedate cosigned the thread without being aware of that consequence strikes me as pretty suspect.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I mean the grace is 48 hours but I basically meant with the current votes it's over.

It was due to writing in phone being shit that the original post only mentioned 8 hours, the 4 was apparently erased when trying to click in the part before that.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

It was due to writing in phone being shit that the original post only mentioned 8 hours, the 4 was apparently erased when trying to click in the part before that.

Hug Typing on phone is a pain in the ass especially when big texts are needed.

 

[Abstractions]

I find the arguments contradicting the notion of anything conceptual happening more convincing, it sounds like what's being described is just spatial warping.

 

[SunDaGamer]

I'm fine with replacing Conceptual Manipulation with Mathematical Manipulation, Vector Manipulation for Cursed Techinque Lapse Blue and Reversal Red should probably be added too

 

[KingTempest]

Perfect, i agree

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I think it's just spatial hax though...

 

[Deagonx]

so the idea that you think Duedate cosigned the thread without being aware of that

Please refrain from arbitrarily putting words in my mouth, thank you.

Abstractions and KT's agreement makes four staff agrees. We can wait for the grace period but this is a very straightforward revision so I doubt it gets much pushback from other staff. Though I'd be fine if we acted on it immediately given that it was applied from a thread with a 1-1 tie staff vote.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I find the arguments contradicting the notion of anything conceptual happening more convincing, it sounds like what's being described is just spatial warping.

Would you mind epounding on your point? a crux of the OP's argument is that Infinity is a nominal concept and does not qualify for type 2. I believe I have provided proof this is not the case, so I would appreciate if you would respond to the evidence on my end you find "contradictory" to it being conceptual.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Okay, then I fully and completely support removing CM. This should not have been used for evidence.

is Hollow Purple's Void Manip gonna get removed too then

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Please refrain from arbitrarily putting words in my mouth, thank you.

Abstractions and KT's agreement makes four staff agrees. We can wait for the grace period but this is a very straightforward revision so I doubt it gets much pushback from other staff. Though I'd be fine if we acted on it immediately given that it was applied from a thread with a 1-1 tie staff vote.

I bet you would, which is crazy given you haven't even waited for Duedate to actually clarify his position as the mod with the current most JjK knowledge.

 

[Deagonx]

I bet you would, which is crazy given you haven't even waited for Duedate to actually clarify his position as the mod with the current most JjK knowledge.

Even if it were the case that Duedate strongly disagreed with the downgrade, there would still be an overwhelming vote in favor of removing the ability. But as Expectro demonstrated above, the vote was 1-1 in the prior thread, it should not have been applied.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Even if it were the case that Duedate strongly disagreed with the downgrade, there would still be an overwhelming vote in favor of removing the ability. But as Expectro demonstrated above, the vote was 1-1 in the prior thread, it should not have been applied.

Which you know could be subject to change depending on other people joining the thread.

Stop acting like that thread was done in bad faith when it had extenuating circumstances, mod approval, and I worked with ants for legit weeks to find a solution until he himself co-signed the end result.

But yeah since you clearly won't engage in a conversation about evidence, I'm good ending our engagement here until actual grace passes.

 

[Duedate8898]

I'll have to read through this thread fully before I give my input, but to make one thing clear, I did originally approve the upgrade while taking into account the conceptual stuff. I didn't bring it up because I had no issues with the provided evidence at the time.

 

[Arkenis]

is Hollow Purple's Void Manip gonna get removed too then

Should be removed. Void manip was never really based on anything and it's visuals don't represent that very well.

 

[Deagonx]

Which you know could be subject to change depending on other people joining the thread.

It could, but it's very unlikely. I don't think I've ever seen a 4-0 staff vote end up getting overturned.

Stop acting like that thread was done in bad faith

Again, arbitrarily putting words in my mouth. I am stating factually that it lacked sufficient votes to pass. I never made any insinuations about intentions or bad faith.

But yeah since you clearly won't engage in a conversation about evidence,

I've already stated my stance on the matter. The author didn't say this, it was conjecture from scientists who did not work on the series who were invited to offer their thoughts on powers in the series. The fact that it was arranged by the editor or that the author gave his "blessing" for this panel to occur does not contribute to the notion that everything the scientists said should be considering canonical.

 

[Deagonx]

I'll have to read through this thread fully before I give my input, but to make one thing clear, I did originally approve the upgrade while taking into account the conceptual stuff. I didn't bring it up because I had no issues with the provided evidence at the time.

Thank you. I'll clarify that I didn't doubt that you had taken into account, I am not sure why Dr White claimed I said that. Looking forward to your assessment on this.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I've already stated my stance on the matter. The author didn't say this, it was conjecture from scientists who did not work on the series who were invited to offer their thoughts on powers in the series. The fact that it was arranged by the editor or that the author gave his "blessing" for this panel to occur does not contribute to the notion that everything the scientists said should be considering canonical.

Your stance is incongruent with our standards. Supplementary evidence outside of the primary source is 100% allowable, especially if done by the entity that actually controls the IP of the fiction in discussion. Jump is the IP holder and published this as a specific special in their magazine, equivalent to Marvel releasing a databook about powers.

gege and the editor of the manga co-signing the explanations being valid is much more proof than needed to qualify as secondary canon.

You'd have also noticed (if you read the thread) that these concepts exist and are expressly touched upon in the manga proper. but you didn't read anything past OP, so idk what to tell you.

Anywho, like I said in my prior post, I'm good ending things here since it's quite obvious you are not acting in good faith.

 

[Deagonx]

Your stance is incongruent with our standards.

I find that unlikely, given that I asked multiple admins about the subject and all of them agreed with me on the matter.

gege and the editor of the manga co-signing the explanations being valid

When did Gege "co-sign the explanations being valid?" Scans please.

but you didn't read anything past OP

I'm good ending things here since it's quite obvious you are not acting in good faith.

Refrain from these kinds of incisive accusations. I am allowed to disagree with you.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Your stance is incongruent with our standards. Supplementary evidence outside of the primary source is 100% allowable, especially if done by the entity that actually controls the IP of the fiction in discussion. Jump is the IP holder and published this as a specific special in their magazine, equivalent to Marvel releasing a databook about powers.

gege and the editor of the manga co-signing the explanations being valid is much more proof than needed to qualify as secondary canon.

You'd have also noticed (if you read the thread) that these concepts exist and are expressly touched upon in the manga proper. but you didn't read anything past OP, so idk what to tell you.

Anywho, like I said in my prior post, I'm good ending things here since it's quite obvious you are not acting in good faith.

Keep accusations to a minimum, they do not contribute anything for the thread.

The fact of the matter is, this evidence at the absolute best would be tertiary to actual author statements and the work itself. Given what has been said so far, tho, I too am inclined to side with OP.

 

[Abstractions]

Would you mind epounding on your point?

What I think is happening is the word "concept" being taken too literally in the creation of an infinite space between Gojo and his opponent. Their perceptions/feelings of "near" and "far" are confused because Gojo can be both physically with the endless space between them, it doesn't have to do with actual concept alteration.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

A.) That isn't all the evidence. Did you miss the part where Gojo states Infinity exists as a concept independent of himself and that he manifests said concept into reality? That's quite literally our Concept type 2.
B.) Yes he is. Do you understand how Gojo's ability works? Using the exact scans you are referencing, there is no way you are coming to this conclusion, but we will explore this.

I'm gonna need you to substantiate your claim that this is in reference to idealism or nominalism because that's just blatantly untrue by our standards.

It does not. In fact, if you didn't just skim through scans you would have seen that it's stated Gojo controls "the scale of distance" in reference to him "controlling the concept of near and far". In the same scan you are claiming "debunks the notion" we are given the example of placing items on a ruler. What Gojo is doing is taking the ruler itself (space-time in this instance) and changing it's scale so that if you were resting on a regular ruler's inch line, after Gojo's manipulation, the inch mark would be one foot long. This dilation in space is possible because of Gojo's conceptual control over the scale of the concept of space in his infinity space.

Here is the actual scan. The whole first paragraph preceding the comment about how Gojo is tweaking the concept of near and far discuss how he does so through phase strength. Phase strength is a purely mathematical construct used to determine how elements of a mathematical set will interact as the head toward infinity. Gojo's ability is literally changing the sets ability to either converge (come together) or diverge (split apart), meaning Gojo is clearly tweaking with the abstract elements of space and not just the physical elements of space time.

This is also factually incorrect. Gojo's infinity space is it's own infinite space that works via a special topography that uses completely different mathematical metrics to measure for it's topology, which is elaborated on in the same evidence shown in that thread.

It's blatantly obvious that Gojo's limitless can not function in regular space. More over, Gojo's control over limitless, red, blue, convergence, and divergence, is purely a mathematical construct. Convergence and divergent series discuss abstract elements of sets meeting in infinite series. That is the same concept that Gojo is tweaking to control the scale of distance and to power his natural infinity. These are purely mathematical constructs.

We also know this to be the case given what gojo states regarding his abilities in the HI arc

Gojo's ability can make abstract qualities such as negative 1 a reality and also manifest physical aspects such as the case of negative 1 apples actually existing.

It shouldn't. I'm also guessing you are trying to claim this because of Sukuna's slash, which is hilarious because Sukunas slash needing to be conceptual in order to even reach gojo is actually further supporting proof for concept manip for limitless.

It seems your argument basically boils down to "Infinity is by definition simply a concept, as is the mathematical machinery involved in the use of his ability, and so him bringing them to physical space is effectively him actualizing abstract ideas by manipulating them." Yes? If I'm misrepresenting you, do correct me.

Although the logic here is isn't exactly bad, the initial premise is mistaken. To my knowledge, the "Infinity" that Gojo is referring to, here, is the infinity of Zeno's Paradoxes, which is to say the idea that space is infinitely divisible and as such motion from any Point A to another Point B is impossible. This infinity is, indeed, a physical entity, not an abstract one, because all it refers to is the continuity of space, which is an important element of classical physics (Relativity, for instance, models spacetime as continuous). Space indeed doesn't have a smallest measure as far as we are aware, and so it isn't a discrete patchwork divided in "chunks." It's continuous like the real line in mathematics is.

So Gojo "bringing Infinity into reality" in-context does seem to be just him warping space. You might argue that the above cannot be correct because Infinity not being "in" reality would seem to imply that it does not exist in correspondence to anything physical, but this logic would contradict Conceptual Manipulation, too: As you know, "Concepts," as far as that page is concerned, are realist universals, not the day-to-day definition of the term. And Type 2 in particular (Which Infinity is currently rated as) is for universals that exist attached to whatever sphere of existence they govern instead of being independent from it, thus being part of reality.

So, arguing towards keeping Conceptual Manipulation would require you to argue that "Infinity" does indeed exist in reality, which the scan itself already disproves if taken that way. So, Infinity "not being a part of reality" seems to be just talking about how it's not actually a kind of Infinity that implies infinite extension (i.e Space being infinitely divisible doesn't mean the distance between Point A and Point B is actually infinite in length), and thus not something that's practically experienced as infinite by anything.

In short: I agree with removing Conceptual Manipulation, yeah.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I find that unlikely, given that I asked multiple admins about the subject and all of them agreed with me on the matter.

Tell them to express that in the thread, I don't care about supposed convos you've had on the side. We have supplementary material littering our explanations of several hundreds of verses.

When did Gege "co-sign the explanations being valid?" Scans please.

Uhm let's start with the fact that as an IP holder (although less than Jump) his permission is needed to publish said thing?

Let's talk about the editor being the express manager of JJK content from Jump which makes him representative of express JJK IP.?

You could actually read the interview itself and see Gege comments himself? This image expressessly discussed how the editor in question, is the person who writes Gege's afterwords in the manga volumes and makes corrections to things that he himself explained wrong in the chapters proper. Gege then states how even the editor wasn't enough which is why they had to call in "super assassins" aka professionals who actually know what they're talking about

The session once again being labeled as a lecture for readers to learn from.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

What I think is happening is the word "concept" being taken too literally in the creation of an infinite space between Gojo and his opponent. Their perceptions/feelings of "near" and "far" are confused because Gojo can be both physically with the endless space between them, it doesn't have to do with actual concept alteration.

Yes, but I am asking youwhy you believe that given the evidence I provided. The evidence I provided shows

• Gojo's infinity is not nominal and exits everywhere and outside of reality.
• Gojo's infinity allows him control of convergence and divergence, abstract qualities of set elements that only exist in math.
• Gojo's power expressly being able to make things lunch imaginary numbers turn from abstract to real and manifesting in reality.
• Gojo's "infinity" creates an actual infinite space with separate rules, topology, and characteristics that it doesn't share with regular space, tying back to my first point.

If you are saying OP's argument of "infinity in this case being nominal" is correct, I would ask you to expound because the above evidence is directly contradictory to that notion.

 

[Deagonx]

Uhm let's start with the fact that as an IP holder (although less than Jump) his permission is needed to publish said thing?

This does not mean he "co-signed the explanations as valid."

When did Gege do that? Show me the specific statement from the author you are using as evidence.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Was observing this thread along with other ones in “What’s New” and see Ultima agreeing with the thread in question. Welp, this was a interesting day.

Anyway, I will refrain from voting since this thread is technically already concluded and agreed upon by multiple staff members.

 

[Arkenis]

I think the only good piece of evidence is the fact that Gojo can take the naturally occurring "infinity" an inherent concept, into reality and then manipulate it. The concept of infinity would at the very least fall under Type 2 no? The mathematicians seem to be referring more to one's perception of near and far and to support this Gege asked an engineer how he'd design limitless Here

Furthermore this should also be mathematics manipulation as Gege purposely based this off the infinite number series, a term describing a series of infinite numbers though through an engineer’s perspective it's not very accurate to be used.

I'd say at best the fact he can take the naturally occurring infinity and then manipulate that within reality is fine for conceptual manip maybe? Otherwise this should be perception manipulation, spatial manipulation, physics manipulation, and likely mathematics manipulation.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Although the logic here is isn't exactly bad, the initial premise is mistaken. To my knowledge, the "Infinity" that Gojo is referring to, here, is the infinity of Zeno's Paradoxes, which is to say the idea that space is infinitely divisible and as such motion from any Point A to another Point B is impossible.

This is incorrect. In fact Gege even expressed in one of his Volume afterwards that he messed up by using the Achilles and Tortoise example and part of the issue from Jump is to reconcile some of the mistakes he made in explaining it (mind you this is the same editor who is apart of the interview in OP and who Gege states is explaining things for him in said interview).

So Gojo "bringing Infinity into reality" in-context does seem to be just him warping space. You might argue that the above cannot be correct because Infinity not being "in" reality would seem to imply that it does not exist in correspondence to anything physical, but this logic would contradict Conceptual Manipulation, too: As you know, "Concepts," as far as that page is concerned, are realist universals, not the day-to-day definition of the term. And Type 2 in particular (Which Infinity is currently rated as) is for universals that exist attached to whatever sphere of existence they govern instead of being independent from it, thus being part of reality.

That doesn't make sense given our explanations though. For instance, when talking about his ability, he expressly discusses that his power allows him to create impossibilities such as negative 1 apples appearing in reality. For context, Gojo is explaining how he attracts things to him by creating a negative distance in space, which then must be filled by reality compensating for the blatant impossibility. Manifesting negative numbers in reality would inherently be something in the domain of the abstract, and not explained by simple spatial manipulation, as the notion of negative length, etc doesn't exist in our physical counterpart. So if Infinity is both omnipresent in reality and stands above it but has direct consequences over reality, I can't possibly see how you would agree with it being a nominal concept in any capacity. Could you elaborate?

Moreover, I don't see how the second portion of this makes much sense.

Sukuna for instance, needed to "change the technique's "target" to all of existence (the kanji here being tied to the Buddhist "universe" or all realms of existence and and time, future, past, and present, I checked with Gale) in order to hit Gojo. He specifically tells him
"Your infinity meant nothing. As long as it existed in that space -that world- it would all be torn apart" (referring to his infinity falling into the category of existence, something that Sukuna himself notes is next to impossible despite spatial manipulation already existing in verse)

Footnote for the term world

Spoiler

According to Oxford Languages and 広辞林 (a Japanese encyclopedia) the term 世界 can also refer to the universe as a whole. To quote both sources: Oxford: All phenomena and things which exist. The universe. (存在する事物・現象の総体。宇宙。) 広辞林: All phenomena and finite things. The universe. (すべての有限な事物や事象の全体。宇宙。) Additionally, the official English localization of this scene translates 世界 as "all realms," which further supports this. Additionally, the term is originally a borrowing from Buddhist cosmology, specifically the term "lokadhaatu," which refers to the universe, or the "world system." This is attested by multiple sources here on Kotobank (https://kotobank.jp/word/世界-546855) as follows: 精選版 日本国語大辞典 (1st entry): A kanji translation of lokadhātu. 世 refers to the three states of temporal existence— the past, the present, and the future— and 界 refers to east, west, south, north, up, and down: the whole of time and space in which living things reside. The realm of mountains and rivers where people and creatures live. The present world. The Three Thousand Worlds which the Buddha enlightened. デジタル大辞泉 (7th entry): Translation of Sanskrit "lokadhātu." 世 refers to the three states of temporal existence— the past, the present, and the future— and 界 refers to east, west, south, north, up, and down. Buddhist term. a). The name of the four lands centered around Mt. Sumeru. Used as a unit to count the Three Thousand Worlds. b.) The realm ruled solely by the Buddha. c). The universe. 世界大百科事典 第２版 (1st entry): Originally Buddhist terminology, refers to the space in which creatures live and are reborn. Translation of Sanskrit "lokadhātu." Loka means "space," and dhātu means "stratum." [...] The Sanskrit "loka" does not necessarily mean time, but its kanji translation 世 does.

Meaning Sukuna couldn't just target regular space, he had to switch the target of his technique to all of existence, which also carried with it Gojo's conceptual infinity (as Ininifty is an aspect of existence).

This harkens back to the explicit mechanics of Jujutsu where it states that cursed techniques target concepts [2] . So we know Sukuna is targeting all of existence, and yet he clearly doesn't cut all the realms of JJK.

Sukuna is obviously not Low 2-C+ in range and potency.

So, arguing towards keeping Conceptual Manipulation would require you to argue that "Infinity" does indeed exist in reality, which the scan itself already disproves if taken that way.

I believe the above scans firmly shows that infinity expressly exists "in reality" just not in totality in physical reality (which would make sense given physical reality is finite and a major reason why infinity is conceptual in the first place).

Another point that hammers home the nature of Infinity is Gojo's domain expansion which is called "infinite Void" (Buddhist reference) whose power is to inflict infinite information onto the opponent. I feel the ramifications of this in regards to the abilities concept thus far are also quite clear.

So, Infinity "not being a part of reality" seems to be just talking about how it's not actually a kind of Infinity that implies infinite extension (i.e Space being infinitely divisible doesn't mean the distance between Point A and Point B is actually infinite in length), and thus not something that's practically experienced as infinite by anything.

I would say this is debunked by this scan

In the norm of finite dimensional space, the establish phase is each other equivalent, but for the time being the details don't matter. In the infinite dimension, that kind of thing happens.

It also mentions that limitless needs to run on irregular topology which should be supporting evidence that Gojo's space has properties that cannot be had by simply controting regular classical physics.

In short: I agree with removing Conceptual Manipulation, yeah.

Thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate it.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

This does not mean he "co-signed the explanations as valid."

When did Gege do that? Show me the specific statement from the author you are using as evidence.

The editor in question is explicitly the person in charge of making Gege's corrections in the volume afterwards, meaning his oversight and co-signature from Gege is pretty blatant. Moreover, this exact topic of discussion (the nature of infinity) was tackled in a volume afterward, where this same editor, explains how Gege is blatantly wrong with his explanation and goes into surface level details about how the math doesn't add up. Only for Gege to then once again explain how how this is going to be expounded by the experts jumped hired in the scan I provided you earlier. Given the explicit linkage (he references the vol. 14 afterward explicitly) of the individuals involved with the direct canon and the author's direct oversight, I'm not sure how you are possibly arguing this cannot be used as evidence, especially given its congruency with concepts and things expressly stated in the manga proper.

Rough trans for linked Japanese scan

In the 14th volume of the Wrong Synopsis War JC, there was an opportunity for Kaisei to explain the ``Five Techniques''. After that, I explained JC volumes 14 and 15, but Takano, who still didn't explain enough, called the strongest assassin and thought more deeply.

 

[Abu2411]

White seems to make the most sense.

 

[Deagonx]

The editor in question is explicitly the person in charge of making Gege's corrections in the volume afterwards, meaning his oversight and co-signature from Gege is pretty blatant. Moreover, this exact topic of discussion (the nature of infinity) was tackled in a volume afterward, where this same editor, explains how Gege is blatantly wrong with his explanation and goes into surface level details about how the math doesn't add up. Only for Gege to then once again explain how how this is going to be expounded by the experts jumped hired in the scan I provided you earlier. Given the explicit linkage (he references the vol. 14 afterward explicitly) of the individuals involved with the direct canon and the author's direct oversight, I'm not sure how you are possibly arguing this cannot be used as evidence, especially given its congruency with concepts and things expressly stated in the manga proper.

Rough trans for linked Japanese scan

Okay, so your earlier statement "he cosigned their explanations as valid" wasn't true. You're simply claiming it's implied by his actions, which I really don't agree with at all.

The fact that the editor or even the author set up this panel for experts to offer their opinions means very little in terms of determining it's canonicity. Regardless of who set it up, this type of content is not de-facto canon by default. You must provide some sort of actual assertion from the author that the explanations they gave are canonical. You sort of attempt this here:

Moreover, this exact topic of discussion (the nature of infinity) was tackled in a volume afterward, where this same editor, explains how Gege is blatantly wrong with his explanation and goes into surface level details about how the math doesn't add up.

Except this falls flat on it's face. The album of extra pages from Volume 15 that you linked only explain that Gege was literally mathematically mistaken in his claim that the series of numbers involved in Zeno's Paradox (1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8....) might eventually result in a negative number (or at least, that appears to be what is communicated in this broken english), which comes from the "Extra Pages" from Volume 8.

Does this acknowledgement of his mathematical ignorance contribute to the claim that what one of the guests said about manipulating the concept of "near" and "far" is a canonical explanation of Gojo's powers? No, not at all. Like, not even a little bit. They joked about the author making a math mistake in Volume 8 and explained his math mistake.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Does this acknowledgement of his mathematical ignorance contribute to the claim that what one of the guests said about manipulating the concept of "near" and "far" is a canonical explanation of Gojo's powers? No, not at all. Like, not even a little bit. They joked about the author making a math mistake in Volume 8 and explained his math mistake.

I will address the only relevant aspect of this post.

The series of events is

Gege writes an explanation in vol. 8 afterward -> This is corrected in vol. 14/15 explanation series. -> This explanation is explicitly referenced in the Jump published Gojo explanation issue meant as a lecture on abilities for fans, with Gege explicitly referencing how even the volume 14/15 corrections weren't in depth enough.

I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about basic stuff like this when I am aware of several things passed on this wiki with much weaker canonicity. If you disagree, fine. We will agree to disagree. But I'm not gonna listen to you sit here and try to tell tell me several published notations spanning both the primary source and direct supplementary information from the primary sources, doesn't count as evidence, especially when not contradicting and in fact, in support of primary sources, the point where they easily correlate with scans as provided to Ultima.

If that doesn't sway you then your vote is already known and we can let further readers decide their own opinions.

 

[Deagonx]

Gege writes an explanation in vol. 8 afterward -> This is corrected in vol. 14/15 explanation series. -> This explanation is explicitly referenced in the Jump published Gojo explanation issue meant as a lecture on abilities for fans, with Gege explicitly referencing how even the volume 14/15 corrections weren't in depth enough.

Correct, an explanation about how a specific mathematical concept in Calculus is handled, which was factually incorrect. This is not the claim nor explanation that is being contested in this CRT, we are referring to an entirely different statement that had nothing to do with this mathematical error, and was never "endorsed by the author" as was claimed.

when I am aware of several things passed on this wiki with much weaker canonicity.

Then they shouldn't be? The fact that terrible revisions make it through this wiki on a regular basis is not a defense for this equally terrible revision.

But I'm not gonna listen to you sit here and try to tell tell me several published notations spanning both the primary source and direct supplementary information from the primary sources, doesn't count as evidence, especially when not contradicting and in fact, in support of primary sources, the point where they easily correlate with scans as provided to Ultima.

You're free not to listen, but the fact remains, inviting some professionals to offer their conjecture on your fictional characters powers does not automatically mean that conjecture is canonical. That's an assumption based on remarkably little evidence.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

'pologies for the somewhat delayed answer, but, either way:

This is incorrect. In fact Gege even expressed in one of his Volume afterwards that he messed up by using the Achilles and Tortoise example and part of the issue from Jump is to reconcile some of the mistakes he made in explaining it (mind you this is the same editor who is apart of the interview in OP and who Gege states is explaining things for him in said interview).

The scan you posted doesn't say this. In fact, the editor says that, with regards to the first application of Infinity (Stopping things by actualizing infinite distance), the usage Achilles and the Tortoise is correct. What he seems to be saying is wrong, instead, is the logic used for the second application (Repelling things)

I would say this is debunked by this scan

It also mentions that limitless needs to run on irregular topology which should be supporting evidence that Gojo's space has properties that cannot be had by simply controting regular classical physics.

I'm not sure what exactly the tidbit you quoted from that scan is meant to prove.

As for the second point: Of course, but Spatial Manipulation isn't restricted solely to doing solely things restricted to what classical physics permits. There are plenty of crazier feats that can still be classified as so.

That doesn't make sense given our explanations though. For instance, when talking about his ability, he expressly discusses that his power allows him to create impossibilities such as negative 1 apples appearing in reality. For context, Gojo is explaining how he attracts things to him by creating a negative distance in space, which then must be filled by reality compensating for the blatant impossibility. Manifesting negative numbers in reality would inherently be something in the domain of the abstract, and not explained by simple spatial manipulation, as the notion of negative length, etc doesn't exist in our physical counterpart.

Gojo literally being able to make shit like "-1 apples" actually materialize is better evidence for Infinity being more abstract than milquetoast Spacehax, yeah. Although I'd classify that as Mathematics Manipulation, not Conceptual Manipulation.

So if Infinity is both omnipresent in reality and stands above it but has direct consequences over reality, I can't possibly see how you would agree with it being a nominal concept in any capacity. Could you elaborate?

To be precise: I don't think infinity here refers to a concept at all, no. "Infinity is everywhere" is just talking about how space is continuous and therefore every single bit of it is divisible into infinite parts, the catch being that those parts form an infinite series whose limit converges into a finite value, and as such they don't actually make an infinite extension. Gojo just tweaks that and makes it so they actually do.

Moreover, I don't see how the second portion of this makes much sense.

Sukuna for instance, needed to "change the technique's "target" to all of existence (the kanji here being tied to the Buddhist "universe" or all realms of existence and and time, future, past, and present, I checked with Gale) in order to hit Gojo. He specifically tells him
"Your infinity meant nothing. As long as it existed in that space -that world- it would all be torn apart" (referring to his infinity falling into the category of existence, something that Sukuna himself notes is next to impossible despite spatial manipulation already existing in verse)

Meaning Sukuna couldn't just target regular space, he had to switch the target of his technique to all of existence, which also carried with it Gojo's conceptual infinity (as Ininifty is an aspect of existence).

This harkens back to the explicit mechanics of Jujutsu where it states that cursed techniques target concepts [2] . So we know Sukuna is targeting all of existence, and yet he clearly doesn't cut all the realms of JJK

Can you explain the context of the concepts scan? It's pretty vague at a glance. No clue of what it's saying.

Anyway: part here, specifically, seems to summarize as "Sukuna was stated to target existence itself and yet he didn't literally cut the entire universe and other realms, so this means he actually sliced through existence as an abstract quality and not the physical structure of things." I don't find this very convincing, seeing as the very scan explaining it prefaces "Existence itself" with "The entire world." And, for the matter, even if you include the Buddhist roots of the term into the mix, it still wouldn't suggest much of what you're saying.

(Or what I think you're saying, in any case. I might of course be completely off the mark here, so, as said, you can correct me if needed)

The lack of universe-spanning effects certainly ought to be interpreted here, given that, but I don't see what makes your claims the correct interpretation.

Another point that hammers home the nature of Infinity is Gojo's domain expansion which is called "infinite Void" (Buddhist reference) whose power is to inflict infinite information onto the opponent. I feel the ramifications of this in regards to the abilities concept thus far are also quite clear.

I don't find it very clear, myself, so, can you explain?

Thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate it.

Favor for a homie, really, so, you're welcome.

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah i agree, just a namedrop not will give anything at all

I think it not literally talking about the abstract concept, but talking about the thing that the concept govern