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This is the CRT in this post and it seems Shiki is getting the so called Fraud treatment kinda like how people taunted Mihawk to be one (Even though Mihawk is not one)
The Root CRT pretty much derailed into the shit on Void Shiki CRT (based), so I’ll separate this into its own CRT, and keep that discussion about the root. Many thanks to the .gg/fate server for helping find scans and such.
Most of this was already conveyed in the root thread itself, I’m just neatly compiling it for easier reviewing.
Void goons have got to be some of the most media illiterate people,period.
Anyway. Onto to the main arguments, and my counters for them.
“Void said she is the root bro!! She is highouterversal boundless lowball you idiotic downplayer!”
No.
Her wording when calling herself the Spiral actually uses a low certainty denotation (kamoshirenai). She does not "Know" she is the Spiral, she guessed.
Article:
いえ――わたし自身が、その渦なのかもし れないわ
Article:
〜かもしれない FOR "MAY" OR "MIGHT"
〜かもしれない is the Japanese equivalent of "may" or "might." It communicates the implication that something may be true, but you're not completely sure. In other words, it refers to your guess when there is no concrete proof to support it.
Let's use the same scenario of you sneezing. Instead of "you wonder," you think you might have a cold. In this case, you can use 〜かもしれない and say: 風邪かもしれない
Here’s a source from a language learning site to prove I’m not bullshitting.
Source: https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/expressing-uncertainty-in-japanese
So this implies that not only is the notion of her being the root, thus being able to do anything is a low probability,but there is no concrete proof to even back up her claim.
This can be extended to any other statement she (Void) makes in KNK,because:
“Since her way of being itself is uncertain, even while knowing the full story behind many bizarre incidents she does not get involved with them.”
It’s clear that Void lacks clarity about her own existence.
Reaching/being connected to the root doesn’t seemingly instantly give you all the tools to wipe reality. We know of one character who IS confirmed to become part of the root, as he circulates within it in between manifestations. We also have an entire group of characters (Divine spirits), who have a really high degree of connection to the root. This connection doesn’t fade after the AOG,just the link the mages had to them.
AOG mages are said to be “quite close” to the root, by linking themselves to a divine spirit. Quite can mean to the utmost extent, or extremely close. Either way implies a high degree of connection. Adventures of El-melloi says that the connection is direct, aka, without intervening factors or anything that would diminish the connection. Divine spirits themselves would have an even greater connection, as they’re the medium the AOG mages used to connect to the root. The connection was strong enough, that AOG mages saw trying to reach the root as pointless. Yet you don’t see divine spirits like Euryale or Stheno claimed to have god like power that can beat the rest of the verse. Void saying what she would be capable is based on the condition of her being the root and being able to use all of its powers, which is a low odds statement that is proven false by her antifeats.
"I'm sure you heard in the Clock Tower about how pretty much everyone played by their own different rules in the Age of Gods, right? Did you know that Age of Gods mages weren't after the Root?"
I remember hearing that.
That was because the gods were a regular part of reality in the Age of Gods.
"If I recall correctly, it was because in the Age of Gods, making a contract with a god closer to the Root connected the mage directly to the Root."
"That's right", Rin nodded.
Zepia/TATARI already reached the root, in the same condition as Arayas hypothetical situation, he circulates within it, but can still influence the world because some part of him still remains. Yet, even the TATARI needs a ridiculous amount of prep time to destroy humanity/the world. He doesn’t just instantly achieve the Sixth Law and destroy everything at once. Becoming part of the root is just his first step.
Scans for Zepia below.
The Throne of Heroes is also a part of the root, as expressed by the last 2 scans.
Keep in mind Touko states that by tracing back to the collective unconscious (in other words, the counterforce), Araya believed that he would be able to reach the root.
“In contrast, he aimed to reach ' ' not through the body but through the soul, something like the 'existence' that isn't 'existent'—akin to Schrödinger's cat in its immeasurable box. The body, being a clear form, cannot be penetrated. But the formless soul is transparent. It's like the collective unconscious postulated by some psychologist. He thought that by tracing that chain, he could find the center. To sum it up, both he and I were seeking the original, the primal source of humanity, if you will.”
This would mean that if we took voids low probability claim seriously,every single servant recorded in the throne is a direct part of the collective unconscious/root, and therefore should be nigh omnipotent, when directly manifested. However, this is clearly false. Jeanne, leaving directly from the throne, needed a near infinite amount of attempts to reach the reverse side. If she could harness this nigh omnipotent power, doing such things would be trivial for her.
Also,Grand Servants and Counter Guardians are directly summoned by the World/Counterforce,who is the only entity capable of summoning the main body in the throne, yet you don’t see them utterly stomp the competition.
Basically,just being connected/part of the root doesn’t give you free rein to all of its resources, or lets you scale to its entirety.
Now, I’ll use the rest of the CRT to handle common wanks.
“Void killed the concept of infinity bro!!!”
That paragraph is just saying that infinity exists with a dual nature with the finite, and the finite is what shiki is targeting to dispel the barrier.
“In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity does not exist. Infinity can be observed because objects possess limits. “You might say “but it says limits don’t exist within infinity” but while that may be true, it’s clear that the weakness with this barrier is that it has to exist in a duality with the finite/limit. Destroy the limit, and infinity cannot exist anymore. To put it in simple terms, let’s say there’s a character with infinite durability, and their only weakness is splashing a cup of water on them. Just because I splash water on them, doesn’t mean I’m universal, as that weakness bypasses any defense. Simple media literacy.
TLDR: Shiki is targeting the finite concept that exists in a dual nature with infinity, not the actual concept of infinity.
“Tohno, who has worse eyes than Ryougi,killed the concept of true chaos. Arcueid said she couldn’t do that,therefore she’s weaker.”
It’s explicitly said that the concept of true chaos wasn’t the one targeted, but the concept of Maiko. Maiko is what sustains the true chaos and allows it to manifest. The existence of a single person is obviously going to be easier to kill. Also,Arcueid was able to affect things that the mystic eyes could not. Tohno couldn’t attack the TATARI while it was circulating within the root, as it technically does not exist yet, and therefore has no beginning or end. Yet Arcueid was able to affect the TATARI while it was inside the root to revert him back. Sion also says that the only one who could affect the TATARI in this state is someone like Arcueid,saying the MEODP in general cannot affect it.
“Ryougi killed Archetype Earth bro”
Easily the most idiotic wank here.
Ryougi didn’t kill AE. Not only does ryougi confirm that AE is immune to the MEODP, by saying it’s not a matter of seeing her lines, death doesn’t exist for her. This is a whole plot line in Tsukihime. Even normal Arc has no fated end during the night. Also, ORT is directly stated in character material to be immune to the MEODP. “By the way, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can’t kill it. It does not possess the concept of death, so you'll have to destroy it physically.”It’s not saying a particular usage of the MEODP, but the MEODP as a whole cannot kill it. Also, Ryougi literally says that the events shown in this Arcade mode don’t happen.https://imgur.com/a/hFc4mBY Archetypes win quote says it’s a century too early for her to aim for space, and for now, stay submerged in her dream. As I’ll explain in the anti-feats section, this is what she does only when under threat of death.
Regardless, your source is written by a 3rd party company,which the work was outsourced towards. Who says the description isn’t their own take on the event? We know nasu doesn’t do heavy supervision if he’s busy with other works ( see F/Z). I doubt he put much importance (or any time at all) towards MBTL archives. I wouldn’t trust a statement from an outsourced company, 12+ years after the original work, to be releasing important lore information about it. Especially since it’s contradicted. In the same game, in a similar dream route, we have base Arcueid beating Archetype. I hope I don’t have to explain why that makes no sense. (Also it’s later revealed that the ENTIRE route was a dream.)
Also, this scaling makes no sense, as she has inferiority to several characters far weaker than her, as I’ll get into in the anti feats section.
Antifeats:
Arcueid: Ergh, so what about you Ryougi? Do you like the world of Fate?
Shiki: Not in particular, Mikiya isn't there. Sure my wishes will be granted but don't wishes get granted normally?
Arcueid: Uh, um, how direct.
Saber: Well, that would be because you're God to be blunt. You wouldn't know the pain of those without.
Shiki: Don't make such a stupid analogy. I'm cute compared to that. The stupid woman over there doesn't have any limits. She can make a castle just by her imagination you know?
Arcueid: I've got a lot of restrictions too though. Oh, so it looks that way to you two, well, the most practical one is Saber though.
Source: , 28:50 mark.
All around Type-Moon is metafiction, so which personality of Ryougi is speaking at the moment is irrelevant, all 3 characters are fully aware of each others capabilities for the setting of the CD. They even reference her wish granting ability, and the fact that she’s considered God, which is an allegory of the thought that she’s nigh-omnipotent. Normal Ryougi doesn’t have the ability they’re referencing. The fact that Saber Artoria swinging her sword around is considered more practical than a supposed omnipotent/nigh-omnipotent is damning, and the fact that Arcueids casual feat of materializing the millennium castle is impressive. She even denies the notion of being anything close to a god, as she’s cute compared to that.
Both Artoria and Arcueid got many buffs and changes, but void/ryougi has stayed almost thesame throughout. The only major change was that she was compared to a Sword Saint while using a sword, which can hold their own with servants. Overall this scaling is way more consistent than you implying ryougi can beat archetype (lmao?), when she’s consistently put below servants, but on a level where she can fight with them somewhat evenly. And this is with a sword btw. Ryougi with a sword is stated to make knife Ryougi look like a common musou enemy. And you think she can beat an ultimate one. Also before you cope that they’re different, they’re heavily implied to be one and the same.
Q: How skilled is Shiki in swordsmanship?
A: About the same as the swordswoman who became a rumor in Fuyuki City.
T: Shiki is so strong! ...Or should I say, Fujimura is so strong here!?
A: But Shiki likes knives more than swords. Regardless of her strengths or weaknesses.
If she didn't have such specific preferences and had a flat personality that granted her the specs as a swordsman without question, well, she could intimidate the martial monk who has lived for nearly 200 years.
Ｑ：式の剣術の腕前はどのくらいですか？
奈：冬木市で噂になった少女剣士と同じぐらい。
武：式つぇー！……じゃなくて、藤村つぇー！と言うべきなのかここは！？
奈：でも式は刀よりナイフの方が好きなのです。得意不得意は別にして。
そのあたりのこだわりがなく、問答無用で剣士としてのスペックを出すようなフラットな人格になれば、まあ、200年近く生きてる武闘派の怪僧をびびらせるぐらいには。
I think it should be obvious who "flat personality" is referring to.
the raw includes the particle (出す), which roughly means to give. The personality change is granting ryougi her increased stats. This is implied again in Void's skill,where the switch to a swordsman's attitude gives her the ability of high speed movement. Also, just using her sword skills wouldn't give her precognitive abilities like it does.
Cloud Shine: B
After switching one's attitude to that of a swordsman, the user performs ultra-high speed movements and slashes. Five intervals... nine meters of space are instantly covered, as if a flash of light.
The manga even affirms this point. View:
This version got threatened by the collapse of a building, as shown here.
The anime gives you visual context on the araya fight, his spell just starts the colllapse
“All around type moon isn’t canon”!!
Not only is this a stupid thing to say, especially for a series who’s fanbase pretty much collectively agrees most, if not all of the type moon works are canon, unless stated otherwise, it just makes no sense.
Carnival Phantasm and the melty stuff are self contained, they don’t try to assert new lore information. AATM does. Ryougi even calls back to it (AATM) in MBAA. Doesn’t matter the way the information is delivered,but the information exists. Drama CDs revealing new lore information isn’t an alien concept, as examples like Garden of Avalon, or King of the Cavern exist.
It’s the author comparing the 3, through the characters themselves.
Void says the combined forces of her and Chaldea would have no chance against a monster of Gaia (primate murder)
“But she’s limited by a servant container!!”
(Nasu Interview, 2016)
But Shiki is special – she's dead, but not quite. Her body had burned, but it's yet to completely burn up. She's there, just right before dying, asleep. The Ogawa Apartments that we see is the dream that Shiki is seeing. During the event, Shiki would say things like, "This is an awful nightmare," or "I can't wake up, so come with me," and if she does wake up, she, like everyone else, would die out along with the time period she's in. But if she doesn't wake up, she'll avoid the destruction of humanity as long as she's in that dream, and she'll be able to return to her original world.
Not like that helps you here? Either Shiki dies to the human incineration,which as a threat level is equal to FGO Ama, who is weaker than CCC ama…. , loses to primate murder.. or both lol. The ryougis of the KNK event are the originals trying to escape death. They haven’t died, so they aren’t servants. They’re only servants in gameplay, not lore. Also, the independent manifestation skill denies the notion of her being a servant, as the point of that skill is that they can summon theirselves wherever, without a container. This skill is usually limited to the Beasts (they are NOT servants btw), but Merlin and Shiki know this skill somehow (Merlin had the potential to become a beast at some point, so that explains him, not sure about Shiki.) Merlin isn’t a servant,btw. He’s just using IM to cosplay as a servant. either way, the possession of this skill definitely confirms she’s not a servant.
Also, having supposed omnipotent power being limited is an antifeat in of itself , infinity/anything should still be infinity.
"But Void is said to be a mark of an omnipotent wish granter"!!!! Not only is that not meant to be taken hyperliterally, but it’s obviously meant to refer to the Holy Grail. Here's why I say so:
"—Your wish, Kokutou. Tell me it. I can grant most human wishes. And Shiki seems to like you, so - what's mine by right is yours."
This line implies :
1. There are wishes she cannot grant. Most could even be referring to as little as 51% of wishes, as thats still a majority.
2. They are limited to a human scale, and wishes on a higher scale are too much for her.
The second one is proven in Archetypes line about the Grail in FGO.
"The Holy Grail, the golden chalice. I heard it was a valuable thing, but it's quite small. Is that enough to grant wishes by human standards? I thought it'd surely be like a crater or something similar. …No, I was talking about my own standards."
This calls back to the AATM statement, where ryougi calls Voids own abilities cute compared to a god, implies arcs MP to be superior to her own abilities, and Arc implying she has restrictions by reassuring ryougi that she has a lot of restrictions as well, but saying that it might look like she doesn’t from Ryougi and Artorias perspective, asserting her superiority over both characters. (Because a weaker character may think a character far stronger than them would seemingly posses no limits.
This last point isn’t about void, but base Ryougi, to shut down the notion of her being above AE.
She canonically loses to the extra servants. She isn’t a servant in Extra. Saying she somehow has a container here is baseless conjecture, especially since we know Void has a skill to summon herself without one.
TLDR: Void is a featless character, with self admitted unreliable statements, with the lore even saying she’s uncertain about herself. Saying she’s this nigh omnipotent character contradicts the consistent scaling putting her around Sub-Servant level. She also has direct inferiority to quite a few characters.
Voids key should be changed to Unknown with powers,because of this.
Also someone told me to make this, and will honour their words.
The Root CRT pretty much derailed into the shit on Void Shiki CRT (based), so I’ll separate this into its own CRT, and keep that discussion about the root. Many thanks to the .gg/fate server for helping find scans and such.
Most of this was already conveyed in the root thread itself, I’m just neatly compiling it for easier reviewing.
Void goons have got to be some of the most media illiterate people,period.
Anyway. Onto to the main arguments, and my counters for them.
“Void said she is the root bro!! She is highouterversal boundless lowball you idiotic downplayer!”
No.
Her wording when calling herself the Spiral actually uses a low certainty denotation (kamoshirenai). She does not "Know" she is the Spiral, she guessed.
Article:
いえ――わたし自身が、その渦なのかもし れないわ
Article:
〜かもしれない FOR "MAY" OR "MIGHT"
〜かもしれない is the Japanese equivalent of "may" or "might." It communicates the implication that something may be true, but you're not completely sure. In other words, it refers to your guess when there is no concrete proof to support it.
Let's use the same scenario of you sneezing. Instead of "you wonder," you think you might have a cold. In this case, you can use 〜かもしれない and say: 風邪かもしれない
Here’s a source from a language learning site to prove I’m not bullshitting.
Source: https://www.tofugu.com/japanese/expressing-uncertainty-in-japanese
So this implies that not only is the notion of her being the root, thus being able to do anything is a low probability,but there is no concrete proof to even back up her claim.
This can be extended to any other statement she (Void) makes in KNK,because:
“Since her way of being itself is uncertain, even while knowing the full story behind many bizarre incidents she does not get involved with them.”
It’s clear that Void lacks clarity about her own existence.
Reaching/being connected to the root doesn’t seemingly instantly give you all the tools to wipe reality. We know of one character who IS confirmed to become part of the root, as he circulates within it in between manifestations. We also have an entire group of characters (Divine spirits), who have a really high degree of connection to the root. This connection doesn’t fade after the AOG,just the link the mages had to them.
AOG mages are said to be “quite close” to the root, by linking themselves to a divine spirit. Quite can mean to the utmost extent, or extremely close. Either way implies a high degree of connection. Adventures of El-melloi says that the connection is direct, aka, without intervening factors or anything that would diminish the connection. Divine spirits themselves would have an even greater connection, as they’re the medium the AOG mages used to connect to the root. The connection was strong enough, that AOG mages saw trying to reach the root as pointless. Yet you don’t see divine spirits like Euryale or Stheno claimed to have god like power that can beat the rest of the verse. Void saying what she would be capable is based on the condition of her being the root and being able to use all of its powers, which is a low odds statement that is proven false by her antifeats.
"I'm sure you heard in the Clock Tower about how pretty much everyone played by their own different rules in the Age of Gods, right? Did you know that Age of Gods mages weren't after the Root?"
I remember hearing that.
That was because the gods were a regular part of reality in the Age of Gods.
"If I recall correctly, it was because in the Age of Gods, making a contract with a god closer to the Root connected the mage directly to the Root."
"That's right", Rin nodded.
Zepia/TATARI already reached the root, in the same condition as Arayas hypothetical situation, he circulates within it, but can still influence the world because some part of him still remains. Yet, even the TATARI needs a ridiculous amount of prep time to destroy humanity/the world. He doesn’t just instantly achieve the Sixth Law and destroy everything at once. Becoming part of the root is just his first step.
Scans for Zepia below.
The Throne of Heroes is also a part of the root, as expressed by the last 2 scans.
Keep in mind Touko states that by tracing back to the collective unconscious (in other words, the counterforce), Araya believed that he would be able to reach the root.
“In contrast, he aimed to reach ' ' not through the body but through the soul, something like the 'existence' that isn't 'existent'—akin to Schrödinger's cat in its immeasurable box. The body, being a clear form, cannot be penetrated. But the formless soul is transparent. It's like the collective unconscious postulated by some psychologist. He thought that by tracing that chain, he could find the center. To sum it up, both he and I were seeking the original, the primal source of humanity, if you will.”
This would mean that if we took voids low probability claim seriously,every single servant recorded in the throne is a direct part of the collective unconscious/root, and therefore should be nigh omnipotent, when directly manifested. However, this is clearly false. Jeanne, leaving directly from the throne, needed a near infinite amount of attempts to reach the reverse side. If she could harness this nigh omnipotent power, doing such things would be trivial for her.
Also,Grand Servants and Counter Guardians are directly summoned by the World/Counterforce,who is the only entity capable of summoning the main body in the throne, yet you don’t see them utterly stomp the competition.
Basically,just being connected/part of the root doesn’t give you free rein to all of its resources, or lets you scale to its entirety.
Now, I’ll use the rest of the CRT to handle common wanks.
“Void killed the concept of infinity bro!!!”
That paragraph is just saying that infinity exists with a dual nature with the finite, and the finite is what shiki is targeting to dispel the barrier.
“In order to render infinity, one must define limits. Without limits, infinity does not exist. Infinity can be observed because objects possess limits. “You might say “but it says limits don’t exist within infinity” but while that may be true, it’s clear that the weakness with this barrier is that it has to exist in a duality with the finite/limit. Destroy the limit, and infinity cannot exist anymore. To put it in simple terms, let’s say there’s a character with infinite durability, and their only weakness is splashing a cup of water on them. Just because I splash water on them, doesn’t mean I’m universal, as that weakness bypasses any defense. Simple media literacy.
TLDR: Shiki is targeting the finite concept that exists in a dual nature with infinity, not the actual concept of infinity.
“Tohno, who has worse eyes than Ryougi,killed the concept of true chaos. Arcueid said she couldn’t do that,therefore she’s weaker.”
It’s explicitly said that the concept of true chaos wasn’t the one targeted, but the concept of Maiko. Maiko is what sustains the true chaos and allows it to manifest. The existence of a single person is obviously going to be easier to kill. Also,Arcueid was able to affect things that the mystic eyes could not. Tohno couldn’t attack the TATARI while it was circulating within the root, as it technically does not exist yet, and therefore has no beginning or end. Yet Arcueid was able to affect the TATARI while it was inside the root to revert him back. Sion also says that the only one who could affect the TATARI in this state is someone like Arcueid,saying the MEODP in general cannot affect it.
“Ryougi killed Archetype Earth bro”
Easily the most idiotic wank here.
Ryougi didn’t kill AE. Not only does ryougi confirm that AE is immune to the MEODP, by saying it’s not a matter of seeing her lines, death doesn’t exist for her. This is a whole plot line in Tsukihime. Even normal Arc has no fated end during the night. Also, ORT is directly stated in character material to be immune to the MEODP. “By the way, the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception can’t kill it. It does not possess the concept of death, so you'll have to destroy it physically.”It’s not saying a particular usage of the MEODP, but the MEODP as a whole cannot kill it. Also, Ryougi literally says that the events shown in this Arcade mode don’t happen.https://imgur.com/a/hFc4mBY Archetypes win quote says it’s a century too early for her to aim for space, and for now, stay submerged in her dream. As I’ll explain in the anti-feats section, this is what she does only when under threat of death.
Regardless, your source is written by a 3rd party company,which the work was outsourced towards. Who says the description isn’t their own take on the event? We know nasu doesn’t do heavy supervision if he’s busy with other works ( see F/Z). I doubt he put much importance (or any time at all) towards MBTL archives. I wouldn’t trust a statement from an outsourced company, 12+ years after the original work, to be releasing important lore information about it. Especially since it’s contradicted. In the same game, in a similar dream route, we have base Arcueid beating Archetype. I hope I don’t have to explain why that makes no sense. (Also it’s later revealed that the ENTIRE route was a dream.)
Also, this scaling makes no sense, as she has inferiority to several characters far weaker than her, as I’ll get into in the anti feats section.
Antifeats:
Arcueid: Ergh, so what about you Ryougi? Do you like the world of Fate?
Shiki: Not in particular, Mikiya isn't there. Sure my wishes will be granted but don't wishes get granted normally?
Arcueid: Uh, um, how direct.
Saber: Well, that would be because you're God to be blunt. You wouldn't know the pain of those without.
Shiki: Don't make such a stupid analogy. I'm cute compared to that. The stupid woman over there doesn't have any limits. She can make a castle just by her imagination you know?
Arcueid: I've got a lot of restrictions too though. Oh, so it looks that way to you two, well, the most practical one is Saber though.
Source: , 28:50 mark.
All around Type-Moon is metafiction, so which personality of Ryougi is speaking at the moment is irrelevant, all 3 characters are fully aware of each others capabilities for the setting of the CD. They even reference her wish granting ability, and the fact that she’s considered God, which is an allegory of the thought that she’s nigh-omnipotent. Normal Ryougi doesn’t have the ability they’re referencing. The fact that Saber Artoria swinging her sword around is considered more practical than a supposed omnipotent/nigh-omnipotent is damning, and the fact that Arcueids casual feat of materializing the millennium castle is impressive. She even denies the notion of being anything close to a god, as she’s cute compared to that.
Both Artoria and Arcueid got many buffs and changes, but void/ryougi has stayed almost thesame throughout. The only major change was that she was compared to a Sword Saint while using a sword, which can hold their own with servants. Overall this scaling is way more consistent than you implying ryougi can beat archetype (lmao?), when she’s consistently put below servants, but on a level where she can fight with them somewhat evenly. And this is with a sword btw. Ryougi with a sword is stated to make knife Ryougi look like a common musou enemy. And you think she can beat an ultimate one. Also before you cope that they’re different, they’re heavily implied to be one and the same.
Q: How skilled is Shiki in swordsmanship?
A: About the same as the swordswoman who became a rumor in Fuyuki City.
T: Shiki is so strong! ...Or should I say, Fujimura is so strong here!?
A: But Shiki likes knives more than swords. Regardless of her strengths or weaknesses.
If she didn't have such specific preferences and had a flat personality that granted her the specs as a swordsman without question, well, she could intimidate the martial monk who has lived for nearly 200 years.
Ｑ：式の剣術の腕前はどのくらいですか？
奈：冬木市で噂になった少女剣士と同じぐらい。
武：式つぇー！……じゃなくて、藤村つぇー！と言うべきなのかここは！？
奈：でも式は刀よりナイフの方が好きなのです。得意不得意は別にして。
そのあたりのこだわりがなく、問答無用で剣士としてのスペックを出すようなフラットな人格になれば、まあ、200年近く生きてる武闘派の怪僧をびびらせるぐらいには。
I think it should be obvious who "flat personality" is referring to.
the raw includes the particle (出す), which roughly means to give. The personality change is granting ryougi her increased stats. This is implied again in Void's skill,where the switch to a swordsman's attitude gives her the ability of high speed movement. Also, just using her sword skills wouldn't give her precognitive abilities like it does.
Cloud Shine: B
After switching one's attitude to that of a swordsman, the user performs ultra-high speed movements and slashes. Five intervals... nine meters of space are instantly covered, as if a flash of light.
The manga even affirms this point. View:
This version got threatened by the collapse of a building, as shown here.
The anime gives you visual context on the araya fight, his spell just starts the colllapse
“All around type moon isn’t canon”!!
Not only is this a stupid thing to say, especially for a series who’s fanbase pretty much collectively agrees most, if not all of the type moon works are canon, unless stated otherwise, it just makes no sense.
Carnival Phantasm and the melty stuff are self contained, they don’t try to assert new lore information. AATM does. Ryougi even calls back to it (AATM) in MBAA. Doesn’t matter the way the information is delivered,but the information exists. Drama CDs revealing new lore information isn’t an alien concept, as examples like Garden of Avalon, or King of the Cavern exist.
It’s the author comparing the 3, through the characters themselves.
Void says the combined forces of her and Chaldea would have no chance against a monster of Gaia (primate murder)
“But she’s limited by a servant container!!”
(Nasu Interview, 2016)
But Shiki is special – she's dead, but not quite. Her body had burned, but it's yet to completely burn up. She's there, just right before dying, asleep. The Ogawa Apartments that we see is the dream that Shiki is seeing. During the event, Shiki would say things like, "This is an awful nightmare," or "I can't wake up, so come with me," and if she does wake up, she, like everyone else, would die out along with the time period she's in. But if she doesn't wake up, she'll avoid the destruction of humanity as long as she's in that dream, and she'll be able to return to her original world.
Not like that helps you here? Either Shiki dies to the human incineration,which as a threat level is equal to FGO Ama, who is weaker than CCC ama…. , loses to primate murder.. or both lol. The ryougis of the KNK event are the originals trying to escape death. They haven’t died, so they aren’t servants. They’re only servants in gameplay, not lore. Also, the independent manifestation skill denies the notion of her being a servant, as the point of that skill is that they can summon theirselves wherever, without a container. This skill is usually limited to the Beasts (they are NOT servants btw), but Merlin and Shiki know this skill somehow (Merlin had the potential to become a beast at some point, so that explains him, not sure about Shiki.) Merlin isn’t a servant,btw. He’s just using IM to cosplay as a servant. either way, the possession of this skill definitely confirms she’s not a servant.
Also, having supposed omnipotent power being limited is an antifeat in of itself , infinity/anything should still be infinity.
"But Void is said to be a mark of an omnipotent wish granter"!!!! Not only is that not meant to be taken hyperliterally, but it’s obviously meant to refer to the Holy Grail. Here's why I say so:
"—Your wish, Kokutou. Tell me it. I can grant most human wishes. And Shiki seems to like you, so - what's mine by right is yours."
This line implies :
1. There are wishes she cannot grant. Most could even be referring to as little as 51% of wishes, as thats still a majority.
2. They are limited to a human scale, and wishes on a higher scale are too much for her.
The second one is proven in Archetypes line about the Grail in FGO.
"The Holy Grail, the golden chalice. I heard it was a valuable thing, but it's quite small. Is that enough to grant wishes by human standards? I thought it'd surely be like a crater or something similar. …No, I was talking about my own standards."
This calls back to the AATM statement, where ryougi calls Voids own abilities cute compared to a god, implies arcs MP to be superior to her own abilities, and Arc implying she has restrictions by reassuring ryougi that she has a lot of restrictions as well, but saying that it might look like she doesn’t from Ryougi and Artorias perspective, asserting her superiority over both characters. (Because a weaker character may think a character far stronger than them would seemingly posses no limits.
This last point isn’t about void, but base Ryougi, to shut down the notion of her being above AE.
She canonically loses to the extra servants. She isn’t a servant in Extra. Saying she somehow has a container here is baseless conjecture, especially since we know Void has a skill to summon herself without one.
TLDR: Void is a featless character, with self admitted unreliable statements, with the lore even saying she’s uncertain about herself. Saying she’s this nigh omnipotent character contradicts the consistent scaling putting her around Sub-Servant level. She also has direct inferiority to quite a few characters.
Voids key should be changed to Unknown with powers,because of this.
Also someone told me to make this, and will honour their words.
