Virgo Shaka Immortality Negation and Regeneration Negation Addition

[Rabbit2002]

I think I should add this for Shaka long ago. Basically, with 108 beads Shaka capable of nullifying the immortality of Specter given by Hades. Hades's warriors will revive endlessly as long as his will remains within them. They were also undead warriors, who lacks concept of death and will regenerate after being turn into dust. This ability is also demonstrated by Virgo Amista in the Lost Canvas timeline.

Conclusion add Immortality Negation (Type 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8) and Regenertaion Negation (Mid-High) for Shaka and Amista, even for every Virgo Gold Saint

 

[AlexZiggy]

After discussing this with you on Discord I agree with the proposal.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

I think I should add this for Shaka long ago. Basically, with 108 beads Shaka capable of nullifying the immortality of Specter given by Hades. Hades's warriors will revive endlessly as long as his will remains within them. They were also undead warriors, who lacks concept of death and will regenerate after being turn into dust. This ability is also demonstrated by Virgo Amista in the Lost Canvas timeline.

Conclusion add Immortality Negation (Type 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8) and Regenertaion Negation (Mid-High) for Shaka and Amista, even for every Virgo Gold Saint

In Saint Seiya the Specters do not have any kind of immortality and the rosary only seals the evil stars that choose the Specters (although this is never made clear in the story, because it is never said that the rosary seals anything in the manga and the evil stars are sealed in a tower at the beginning of the Hades Arc). Even Shaka says that no one has ever received eternal life and Giganto realizes at that moment that Hades lied to them.

Spoiler

The Specters do not have any kind of immortality, the power of Hades can resurrect the dead and grant them eternal life or immortality, but he will not do it, because he is a racist who hates humanity and for him and the gods that accompany him (Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker) the Specters are something disposable, even if they die they will only choose new users for the evil stars and Surplices.

Spoiler

冥闘士の上位に位置するふたりの神、ヒュプノスとタナトスが冥闘士を捨て駒程度に見下しているのは、冥衣によって作られる冥闘士の素性を知っているからであった。彼らにしてみれば、冥闘士が全滅しても、再度、魔星に選ばれた者に冥衣を与えれば、戦力を無限に補充できるのである。

また、 いざとなれば、自分たちが出向くことで、すべての問題を解決できるという絶対の自信があったことも少なからず影響している。

Hypnos e Thanatos, dois deuses superiores aos Specters, desprezam os Specters como se fossem buchas de canhão, pois sabem que os Specters nascem das Surplices. Para eles, mesmo que todos os Specters sejam eliminados, suas tropas podem ser repostas infinitamente, pois os Surplices podem ser dados a outros que são eleitos pelas Estrelas Malignas. Além disso, ambos tinham confiança absoluta de que poderiam resolver todos os problemas, caso fosse necessário.

This only applies to Asmita and TLC, although more than an ability that nullifies regeneration it could be a sealing ability, since it seals the souls of the Specters and this prevents the power of Hades from resurrecting them or giving them a new body.

Although Shaka mentions that he can kill Ikki forever, who can regenerate from dust, this means that he can neutralize Ikki's regeneration with his powers, although I don't know if this applies as Immortality Negation.

Spoiler

In Saintia Sho, the Gold Saints could defeat the dryads (a true immortal army) by attacking and destroying their star points (seimeiten), this seemed to neutralize the immortality of the dryads.

 

[Rabbit2002]

In Saint Seiya the Specters do not have any kind of immortality and the rosary only seals the evil stars that choose the Specters (although this is never made clear in the story, because it is never said that the rosary seals anything in the manga and the evil stars are sealed in a tower at the beginning of the Hades Arc). Even Shaka says that no one has ever received eternal life and Giganto realizes at that moment that Hades lied to them.

Shaka was a bit wrong, he even said that he still not enlightened yet. He says no human can have eternal life or something, but he calls Ikki an immortal warrior who can resurrect himself after death. There is also some evidence of this, as Seiya claims that Rhadamanthys is immortal. Giganto realized at that moment that Hades lied to them just because he saw Shaka completely kill the other Specters, which scared him and thought Hades lied to him.

The Specters do not have any kind of immortality, the power of Hades can resurrect the dead and grant them eternal life or immortality, but he will not do it, because he is a racist who hates humanity and for him and the gods that accompany him (Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker) the Specters are something disposable, even if they die they will only choose new users for the evil stars and Surplices.

I don't care he is racist or not, but he still need human to help him in holy wars and defeat Athena. This is further evidenced by the 6 Gold Saints who were revived by Hades to kill Athena. Btw, Hades may hate human but he doesn't really hate his Spectres, who share his ideals.

This only applies to Asmita and TLC, although more than an ability that nullifies regeneration it could be a sealing ability, since it seals the souls of the Specters and this prevents the power of Hades from resurrecting them or giving them a new body.

This would be both

Although Shaka mentions that he can kill Ikki forever, who can regenerate from dust, this means that he can neutralize Ikki's regeneration with his powers, although I don't know if this applies as Immortality Negation.

No, just because Ikki can regenerate from dust, doesn't mean he can come back after his body and soul are completely destroyed.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Shaka was a bit wrong, he even said that he still not enlightened yet. He says no human can have eternal life or something, but he calls Ikki an immortal warrior who can resurrect himself after death. There is also some evidence of this, as Seiya claims that Rhadamanthys is immortal. Giganto realized at that moment that Hades lied to them just because he saw Shaka completely kill the other Specters, which scared him and thought Hades lied to him.

Radamanthys himself indicates that he is not immortal and that only Seiya's attack did not hurt him, although later we can see that he actually took damage from Orphee's and Seiya's attacks and feels damage when he receives Kanon's Galaxian Explosion.

Spoiler

No, Shaka explains that no one in mythology received the gift of immortality or eternal life from Hades, that's why he mentions his talk with Buddha and Giganto at that moment he realizes that Hades lied to them, and they are not immortal, that's why he dies and never resurrects, even the Taizen indicates that the Specters do not resurrect after death and that they are basically an unlimited army because when the Specters die they only find new chosen ones for the Evil Stars and Surplices.

The Specters in Kurumada's work are not immortal in any form and only Ikki and Odysseus (after resurrecting as the Thirteenth Gold Saint) have some level of immortality and regeneration.

This would be both

No, because it is only sealing their souls to prevent them from being resurrected by the power of Hades, because they are not immortal and it is only the power of Hades resurrecting them like any human soul. Besides, Asmita could only create this rosary with the fruits of the tree of the Underworld and by sacrificing her life.

No, just because Ikki can regenerate from dust, doesn't mean he can come back after his body and soul are completely destroyed.

I never said that he regenerated after his soul was completely destroyed, I only mentioned that Ikki has regeneration, because he came back from the dust, and he is one of the few characters in the original manga that is truly immortal and has regeneration.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Radamanthys himself indicates that he is not immortal and that only Seiya's attack did not hurt him, although later we can see that he actually took damage from Orphee's and Seiya's attacks and feels damage when he receives Kanon's Galaxian Explosion.

Seiya's attack injured him, it even broke his armor but he was able to regenerate.

I never said that he regenerated after his soul was completely destroyed, I only mentioned that Ikki has regeneration, because he came back from the dust, and he is one of the few characters in the original manga that is truly immortal and has regeneration.

Never say you said it, I'm just using Shaka's quote to make it clearer, he has the ability to destroy Ikki both body and soul, far beyond the normal wound Ikki can regenerate

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Seiya's attack injured him, it even broke his armor but he was able to regenerate.

Never say you said it, I'm just using Shaka's quote to make it clearer, he has the ability to destroy Ikki both body and soul, far beyond the normal wound Ikki can regenerate

No, it only damages his armor without causing visible damage to his body, just like Orphee's attack, although later Radamanthys himself indicates that he did receive damage and this caused an effect on him after receiving Kanon's Galaxian Explosion.

That's why I said, it probably qualifies as immortality negation, because basically he was going to kill an immortal like Ikki. Although it could also be just body and soul destruction. And about the destruction of souls, well in this manga to completely destroy a soul is not something simple, because souls resist eternal punishment in the Underworld where they are destroyed or damaged in various ways (even Lune shattered a soul before sending it to its eternal punishment and it is said that the soul of Suikyo's brother would be eternally shattered in the Underworld in one of the prisons), but they do not disappear.

 

[Rabbit2002]

No, Shaka explains that no one in mythology received the gift of immortality or eternal life from Hades, that's why he mentions his talk with Buddha and Giganto at that moment he realizes that Hades lied to them, and they are not immortal, that's why he dies and never resurrects, even the Taizen indicates that the Specters do not resurrect after death and that they are basically an unlimited army because when the Specters die they only find new chosen ones for the Evil Stars and Surplices.

Shaka didn't mention that no one in the mythology received immortality from Hades, he just said that no human can live forever like that. Hades didn't even lie to his specters, as you can see 6 Gold Saints were revived by Hades, even after their bodies were destroyed by Mu, they still reappear in Hades' castle.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Shaka didn't mention that no one in the mythology received immortality from Hades, he just said that no human can live forever like that. Hades didn't even lie to his specters, as you can see 6 Gold Saints were revived by Hades, even after their bodies were destroyed by Mu, they still reappear in Hades' castle

The Gold Saints were not resurrected by the power of Hades, this was the magic of the 8th sense, that is why Shaka mentions this to Giganto, because Hades did not provide immortality to anyone in all that time, and the only way to transcend death is with the 8th sense, just as Buddha did, who is described as overcoming old age, sickness and death when he reached enlightenment (or in this case the 8th sense). In addition, even with the 8th sense they were destroyed in the wailing wall and cannot return in a conventional form, although this could not eliminate them completely and we can see that they still exist on a higher plane of existence as Nirvana.

 

[Rabbit2002]

The Gold Saints were not resurrected by the power of Hades, this was the magic of the 8th sense, that is why Shaka mentions this to Giganto, because Hades did not provide immortality to anyone in all that time, and the only way to transcend death is with the 8th sense, just as Buddha did, who is described as overcoming old age, sickness and death when he reached enlightenment (or in this case the 8th sense).

These Gold Saint doesn't have 8th sense at that time

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

These Gold Saint doesn't have 8th sense at that time

Everyone awakened that sense at the end even if it was only for a moment.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Everyone awakened that sense at the end even if it was only for a moment.

They are still a spectres at that time, still bound by Hades, why you think they awakened 8th sense at that moment ?

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

They are still a spectres at that time, still bound by Hades, why you think they awakened 8th sense at that moment ?

I thought you were referring to the scene where the golden ones come back to life at the wailing wall. Deathmask and Aphro were not destroyed, that's why they appeared in Hades' castle, because they were able to resist the attack, even they only die again when Radamanthys throws them into the hole that leads to the Underworld. This is similar to Dohko and Shion surviving the impact of their attacks, even though Shiryu believed they had died and their cosmos had completely disappeared.

 

[Rabbit2002]

No, they didn't resist the attack, if they resist the attack, they would still remain in Sanctuary not in Hades's caslte or somewhere else

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

No, they didn't resist the attack, if they resist the attack, they would still remain in Sanctuary not in Hades's caslte or somewhere else

Mu's attack can send a target to another place, it is simply a powerful impact with dimensional properties, that's why Mu uses this attack to send Seiya to Star Hill and also uses it to send Shoko to the Temple of Eris, even uses a giant version of this attack to try to push back the comet sent to Earth by Eris.. Deathmask and Aphro withstood that attack and traveled to Hades' castle.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Mu's attack can send a target to another place, it is simply a powerful impact with dimensional properties, that's why Mu uses this attack to send Seiya to Star Hill and also uses it to send Shoko to the Temple of Eris. Deathmask and Aphro withstood this attack alone and traveled to Hades' castle.

It can send them to out of existence, as he mention he send these Gold Saints's body to nonexistent, and back to the underworld

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

It can send them to out of existence, as he mention he send these Gold Saints's body to nonexistent, and back to the underworld

No, it only says that it sends them to the world of the dead, similar to the death gate in the Virgo Temple that sends Suikyo to the world of the dead, but at that time he was still able to return thanks to the intervention of Athena's cosmos that returns him to the Sanctuary. In this case, Deathmask and Aphro walked out of that place, thanks to the protection provided by the Surplice and the goddess Ker. As I explained Mu's technique, it is a movement that has a powerful impact and dimensional properties, so if they are not killed by the impact, their bodies will only be moved to the place Mu chooses, as happened with the Comet, Seiya and Shoko.

The Specters in the original manga (even in Next Dimension we can see Specters die easily by a Shion hand move, an Ikki move, a hit with Deathtoll's ass and torn apart by a doped up Lion) or main universe are not immortal and have no regeneration, Hades or any of the accompanying gods like Hypnos, Thanatos and Ker could grant them immortality/eternal life and resurrect them, but they won't, because they consider the Specters disposable and as it is explained in the Taizen even prefer to just get new chosen ones for the Evil Stars and the Surplices. The only truly immortal army the Saints fought in the main universe are the Dryads of Eris.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Anyway, even the scan in taizen confirms that Hades' warriors are immortal and that the rule Shaka mentioned doesn't apply to them.

 

[Lancelot_de_Cancer]

Anyway, even the scan in taizen confirms that Hades' warriors are immortal and that the rule Shaka mentioned doesn't apply to them.

Nah, it's only said that Hades' power could grant them immortality/eternal life (because he is the god who rules the world of the dead and can give new bodies to souls, even giving a young body to Shion), that's why they don't fear death, but as explained in the original manga, Hades doesn't grant them that and basically they just lied to them, even the next page of the Taizen clarifies it and clearly says that they prefer to find new chosen ones for the Evil Stars and the Surplices because they consider the Specters as disposable. Even Hades' power could grant immortality/eternal life to everyone and turn the Earth into a paradise, this is the promise to the Specters and Pandora, but it won't do that, and Pandora herself realizes that Hades only lied to all of them.

Spoiler