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Very Important Dragon Ball Super Revision (Continued)

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AKM sama said:
What's the point of making a new thread if you just copy-pasted the exact OP. It's like you ignored all 350 comments of the previous one.
Option 2 is outright rejected and Option 1 doesn't mean Beerus and Champa are going to be 2-C. As Promestein said and most agreed that the discussion rule should just be removed.

Also quoting my last comment with which many people agreed:

Beerus+Champa's combined power can perform a 2-C feat. Any character able to take on their combined powers would be 2-C as well. That's just straightforward logic and basic powerscaling.

That's not to say that Beerus and Champa would be 2-C as well, since they haven't shown any evidence that they can destroy 2 universes on their own, which is the minimum requirement for baseline 2-C.

My suggestion:

Grand Priest = Likely 2-C

Angels = At least Low 2-C, possibly/likely 2-C
Click to expand...


Anyway, of all the posts in these two threads, I think that AKM Sama's one (the one I'm quoting) is the best solution proposed so far
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
AKM basically said characters who are stronger by not overwhelmingly stronger are still Low 2-C. Such as Gogeta, Jiren, Broly and Ultra Instinct Goku. Most Angels receive at At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C and it's Grand Priest and Zeno are the only ones strait up 2-C based on AKM's proposal.
Click to expand...
I read the thread and @AKM Sama's proposals sound fair for a conclusion to me.
 
I'm curious: why isn't the Grand Priest straight-up 2-C? Are you guys suggesting that there is a possibility for two GoDs working together to overwhelm him?
 
KingPin0422 said:
I'm curious: why isn't the Grand Priest straight-up 2-C? Are you guys suggesting that there is a possibility for two GoDs working together to overwhelm him?
Click to expand...
The Grand Priest is very likely going to be updated.

Until today, the Beerus+Champa feat was 3-A, so there weren't any issues on Grand Priest being Low 2-C.

Simply put, he was Low 2-C because the Beerus+Champa scene wasn't really considered
 
Bump. So we are saying that those who are stated to be possibly comparable or even superior to Beerus aren't treated as having the "possibly 2-C" on their profile.... SO UI Goku, Jiren, Broly, Gogeta... Who have statements of at least being near or similar levels to Beerus won't get that tier ?

Now question... If Goku went Ultra Instinct again somehow... or something forced him back... Because of the Limit Break aspect of the difference between usages of UI... Would he supposedly gain enough power to add the "possibly 2-C" on his tiering ... SInce his previous usage was somewhat comparable with Beerus already prior to gaining Ultra Instinct the next time ?
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
@ProudLearner

"Why would the angels care if the destruction stuff was over time?"

Because they live in those universes and they would be destroyed in the fight. Your presumption that somehow the next blow would instantly destroy both the universes is just using the highest possible interpretation which quite frankly, is only supported by headcanon.

Comparing two completely unrelated scenarios to this fight. I shouldn't have to tell you what's wrong in doing that. Also no one is saying they wouldn't destroy both universes, what does come into the question is the timeframe in which they do it.
Click to expand...


IMO they can do it in a very short time frame or in oneshot if they want. As the fight progresses and they reach that level of power. what's happening is merely collateral damage that's difficult to control even if they're not going all out. Consider this. Going by the shockwaves instance, the 3 consecutive clashes of Goku and Beerus would mean the end of the Universe. SSG Goku from BOG especially is completely fodder in comparison to Beerus or Champa while they are serious. When Beerus and Champa began punching each other, the destruction was only a prelude to the dangerous consequence that would have occurred inevitably if Whis and Vados didnt stop them or In simple words, just like how Goku vs Beerus's first-two clashes did minor damage to the Universe, Beerus vs Champa's initial phase of fight was light because it was yet to evolve to its true potential. To further substantiate this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZX9bY5S9dI (1:42). Its worth noting how Whis and Vados had to abruptly intervene their fight, only because it was going to evolve drastically. Its like as if they deliberately allowed their initial phase of the fight to pass because it wouldn't be a big deal.. As you watch the clip, you can notice how Vados and Whis insist further avoidance of their fight because it would mean the demise of both Universe 6 vs Universe 7.In the Goku vs Beerus fight before the third clash. They literally spawned ki dragons and absorbed it to themselves. Similarly, Beerus and Champa didn't go all out right off the bat, they were getting serious as the fight progressed. Whis and Vados prevented the breaking point. Or lets take an example of If I punch a pillar once, it cracks, I punch it the second time, it shows a considerable fracture. I get pissed and punch it the third time and it collapses entirely.In simpler words if the rate of destruction was slow or constant.Whis and Vados would have never interfered in their fight lol. Whis was tolerating continuous destruction of planets and stars as he was watching Goku vs Beerus. I hope we are not going to assume that the destruction of a room's floor tile would push both Whis and Vados to chime in and disrespect their respective hakaishins? They only interfered because its taboo for GoDs to go beyond planets and stars lol. GoDs destroy planets and stars in order to maintain the order of the Universe. The only character with the *authority* to destroy the Universe is Zeno. Thus Whis and Vados had to suddenly interfere as the fight could have dangerously evolved to multiversal destruction which is taboo for a GoD.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I am personally fine with an upgrade, but I am likely the wrong person to ask, and somebody should preferably request input from all of the staff members listed in the Dragon Ball verse page.
Click to expand...
Somebody still needs to ask the remaining staff members interested in Dragon Ball to comment here.
 
I asked Dark649, but Ryukama said he was uninterested. DragonMasterxyz also said a while back he'd rather not partake in any more Dragon Ball threads.

I also asked Crabwhale.
 
Elizhaa said:
I read the thread and @AKM Dana's proposals sound fair for a conclusion to me.
Click to expand...
I don't know who he is, but he sounds like a pretty swell guy ovo

@T2ES No. Nobody is going to be 2-C just because they are stronger than Beerus. There needs to be sufficient evidence of them being stronger than the combined power of Beerus+Champa. It remains to be seen how strong UI Goku would be if he does it again, but if there isn't any concrete evidence, he'll just be considered Low 2-C.
 
I obviously agree with Option 1, outside of the whole "mandatory 2-C" thing.

And yes, that discussion rule should preferably be removed.
 
Okay. Would the other staff members here find that acceptable?
 
RashFaustinho said:
Antvasima said:
So, should we make the Grand Priest 2-C, and the angels and Gogeta (Dragon Ball Super) "Likely 2-C"?
Click to expand...
I STILL disagree with this Gogeta stuff for reasons I've explained above and that haven't been addressed. No reason whatsoever to give him this "Likely" Tier.
The rest is good
Click to expand...
I am neutral about this option. But this option and AKM Sama's (AKM Dana's) sound like the choice for a conclusion.
 
Okay. I will remove it now then.
 
@AKM Sama Proposal is the best so far.

Don't worry guys Goku will get stronger like always with DBS returning and the new movie.

His next UI boost will definitly surpassed by a long shot to Beerus or he will fight BUW Jiren on his base form.

To be honest I would like Goku to get more resistance to Hax's rather than boost in power.
 
RashFaustinho said:
Antvasima said:
So, should we make the Grand Priest 2-C, and the angels and Gogeta (Dragon Ball Super) "Likely 2-C"?
Click to expand...
I STILL disagree with this Gogeta stuff for reasons I've explained above and that haven't been addressed. No reason whatsoever to give him this "Likely" Tier.
The rest is good
Click to expand...
I want to point out that SSJ Goku couldn't stomp Frieza despite the former's power level being 1.25x that of the latter's.

The stomp gap in Dragon Ball is inconsistent.
 
Perhaps somebody should ask Azathoth to comment here, in order to make certain that this is a good idea.
 
KingPin0422 said:
I want to point out that SSJ Goku couldn't stomp Frieza despite the former's power level being 1.25x that of the latter's.

The stomp gap in Dragon Ball is inconsistent.
Click to expand...
Excluding the fights before the Genkidama their fighting was short ! In the manga it was 10 chapters long which had a lot of dialog between SSJ Goku and Frieza.

What's more inconsistent is the Base form because Saiyans go throught Reactive Power Level so they can get huge boost or not so much boost. Multiplires are consistent since they have been established by Akira Toriyama, Super Exciting Guide, Daizenshuu 6 page 106, and El Manga Legendario which are all read and approved by the author himself.
 
i agree with proposed changes....only issue is gogeta

here is my thought.....stomp gap is inconsistent ok it can be less than 2x it can be more than 2x....akm sama himself said that we cant decide that for sure.......

so what i say is....we know gogeta is at least low 2-c, we just dont know for sure if he goes up to 2-c.....but there is a good possibility that he can.....as far as i am aware, we use the 'possibly' term for ratings exactly like these right? where we are not sure but the character can possibly be at that level

so why not take the middle ground and rate him as at least low 2-c, possibly 2-c....that will solve all our problems :)
 
It baffles me how far some of the people here go through hoops to stop a db upgrade while throwing tier 2 tags to the most vague of series.

low 2-C person 5 some of the recent upgrades for one example. The physical reality of one measily planet hardly seems to warrant a universal tag. But I digress.

For the longest time low 2-Cx2 wasn't allowed to become 2C on this site. Yet now the rule is being removed just so GoDs and those scaling to them aren't bumped to 2C due to being able to destroy 2 seperate universes.

I read through the previous thread and this one and the attitude of some specific people is really disingenuous and disrespectful towards the rest of the community.

Quite frankly if you can't be bothered with the series then kindly let others do their thing, even if a series ends up with a tag that isn't to your liking it won't be the end of the world.

can't wait for the ban hammer to silence the dissenter.
 
"For the longest time low 2-Cx2 wasn't allowed to become 2C on this site"

It still isn't. Anyone just being 2 times stronger than a random Low 2-C won't be 2-C, unless there is some evidence suggesting that.

@Hrishi

Well, if the other staff members support it then I'm also fine with it.
 
So should we decide which Dragon Ball character profiles that should be upgraded to 2-C and "Likely 2-C"?
 
Yeah, the arguments just concluded that Beerus and Champa should be treated as, basically, the strongest Low 2-Cs in terms of AP. UI Goku, Broly and Jiren should all scale to being possibly stronger than that, making them the strongest Low 2-Cs in raw AP. Anyone that can match Beerus + Champa (due to them being the strongest a Low 2-C can be w/o being 2-C) is treated as 2-C. So, any DB character that equates to summing a pair of borderline 2-Cs is 2-C.

I'm going to just mention that my opinion is, again:

  • Grand Priest = 2-C (Vastly superior to angels like Whis, who can knock out Beerus with a single blow)
  • Angels = Likely or outright 2-C (Whis is vastly superior to Beerus and can one tap him)
  • Gogeta = Likely 2-C (Casually stomped Broly, who is said to possibly surpass Beerus. The gap between Gogeta and Broly is unknown but we know Gogeta > Casual Gogeta >> Broly >/= Beerus which should be enough reason for Gogeta to be Likely 2-C in Blue)
  • Beerus, Champa, Goku, Jiren, Broly = Strongest Low 2-Cs in terms of raw AP. Anyone that scales to a sum of two of these characters are straight up scaled to 2-C due to them already bordering 2-C and their combined power equating to 2-C feats.
Every other GoD should stay Low 2-C, regardless of conclusions reached for Beerus-tiers. Beerus has consistently been depicted as among at least the strongest of the gods, so we would need more information on other gods to scale them.
 
I suppose that seems reasonable.
 
AKM sama said:
What's the point of making a new thread if you just copy-pasted the exact OP. It's like you ignored all 350 comments of the previous one.
Option 2 is outright rejected and Option 1 doesn't mean Beerus and Champa are going to be 2-C. As Promestein said and most agreed that the discussion rule should just be removed.

Also quoting my last comment with which many people agreed:

Beerus+Champa's combined power can perform a 2-C feat. Any character able to take on their combined powers would be 2-C as well. That's just straightforward logic and basic powerscaling.

That's not to say that Beerus and Champa would be 2-C as well, since they haven't shown any evidence that they can destroy 2 universes on their own, which is the minimum requirement for baseline 2-C.

My suggestion:

Grand Priest = Likely 2-C

Angels = At least Low 2-C, possibly/likely 2-C
Click to expand...
everyone in the thread agreed to this ratings

just gogeta matter was getting debated

according to me gogeta shoud be at least low 2-c, likely 2-c for reasons in my previous comment but i will let staff decide on that
 
I do not agree with 2-C Gogeta. If we arbitrarily assign a higher rating just based on powerscaling, then what stops someone from arguing for 2-C Broly since he's so superior? Or Jiren? Or MUI Goku?
 
That's not even remotely equivalent. The only statements scaling Broly, Jiren and Goku is that they are equal to or stronger than Beerus. We have actual scaling and feats from Gogeta to ascertain that he easily defeated Broly, who scales to being equal to Beerus at worst.

Again: Gogeta > Casual Gogeta >> Broly >/= Beerus.

The gap is "Beerus + Champa = 2-C". Basically, anyone 2x Beerus would be liable for 2-C rating. Broly is equal to or stronger than Beerus. Gogeta casually curbstomped Broly. Gogeta's full strength is likely far greater than that. The only issue is that we don't know how much stronger Gogeta's serious power is, when compared to his casual power against Broly.

There are other arguments presented as well. Broly started out as much weaker than Base Vegeta but, within minutes, could stomp SSG Goku and SSG Vegeta in Wrath (only 10x base) and then grew stronger, becoming comparable to SSB Goku in just Wrath. Essentially, Broly has grown countless times stronger in just a few minutes of adapting to his opponents. When Broly went FPSS and started to overwhelm SS Gogeta, Gogeta opted to go straight to Blue and stomped Broly for the rest of the fight.

So, knowing Broly can adapt to stomping SSB-tiers around, from being stomped by a Base Vegeta, with just his Wrath form...and that Gogeta skipped to Blue from SS against FPSS Broly...we can ascertain that Broly, if the gap between he and Gogeta was lesser than 2x, would have likely grown strong enough to at least match SSB Gogeta.

There is no evidence that Broly stopped adapting. There is plenty of evidence that his peak was equal to Beerus at a minimum. There is evidence that Broly can adapt to people countless times his strength in mere minutes. Yet you would claim Gogeta is not at least 2x Broly, even though he casually stomped Broly, who was unable to adapt to Gogeta's casual strength?

Essentially speaking, there is no argument against Likely 2-C SSB Gogeta. I would genuinely argue that Gogeta should be straight up 2-C. The only reason I refrain from that is due to people already disagreeing with Likely 2-C Gogeta in the first place (despite having no arguments against it).
 
Okay. What about the angels then?
 
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