Venuzdonoa Downgrade (Improved Argument)

[MaxLevel_King]

Stop asking me pointless questions when I've already provided my reasoning for certain arguments countless times over. You and a few other people have been consistently trying to debunk my claims while straight up having ignored the rest of the context and reasoning behind my claims.

It's one thing to address my claims in their entirety or to make arguments that I haven't responded to. However, what's been happening in this thread over and over is people attacking a very surface-level part of my argument and asking questions meant to debunk me when I've already explained my reasoning for said questions.

If you're going to try to debunk me, actually attack an entire argument of mine. Don't conveniently leave out a part of my argument and then act like you're making any valid points against me.

 

[Zencha9]

im gonna have to agree with this

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Stop asking me pointless questions when I've already provided my reasoning for certain arguments countless times over. You and a few other people have been consistently trying to debunk my claims while straight up having ignored the rest of the context and reasoning behind my claims.

It's one thing to address my claims in their entirety or to make arguments that I haven't responded to. However, what's been happening in this thread over and over is people attacking a very surface-level part of my argument and asking questions meant to debunk me when I've already explained my reasoning for said questions.

If you're going to try to debunk me, actually attack an entire argument of mine. Don't conveniently leave out a part of my argument and then act like your making any valid points against me.

You literary have Burden of proof. There is nothing to argue. Call the staff let's see. @Dereck03 disgreeing with the thread. @Everything12 said even though it falls under NLF kinda thing it doens't change anything. @Planck69 didn't responded back after Dereck dropped proof for you just copy pasting same Arguments again from old rejected thread.

 

[ImmortalDread]

old rejected thread.

3*

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

That not Anos who said that, the NARRATIVE ******* SAID THAT
the NARRATIVE ******* SAID THAT
the NARRATIVE ******* SAID THAT

The narrative is Anos' thoughts. It's a novel with first-person narrative, from his pov. Can we please stop trying to pretend the opposite here.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Okay fine, I will ******* address all of your clown claims because you want it.

1. Anos didn't know about the existence of Bubbles or the Silver Sea when he made that statement. What he was referring to as "all of existence" was the World (Militia World) and everything in it.

1. One person said that it wasn't the narrative but Anos' thoughts, and another said that it was the narrative. Regardless, if it was Anos' thoughts, then he didn't know about the Silver Sea. If it was the narrative itself, the Silver Sea wasn't even narratively introduced yet. Either way, that statement doesn't prove what you claim it does.

What makes you think that the author himself didn't already plan Silver Sea in the earlier chapter? Did you think the narrative would limit itself to the Militia worlds that the Holy Silver Sea had appeared in the later chapter? I know because I'm a novel author, did you ever think that all of existence just limiting itself to Militia worlds is the Author's intent?
I think not.
Think again, you thick-headed idiot.

2. People claim that Venuzdonoa working in Deeper Worlds prove that there are no anti-feats to the statement. However, Deeper Worlds are still "all of existence" as Anos referred to, just like the Militia World is. Worlds (All of existence as was referred to by Anos at the time of the statement as he lacked knowledge of the Silver Sea) can't even survive in the environment of the Silver Sea without being surrounded by a Bubble, as the Silver Sea constantly drains magic power from everything it touches. The Silver Sea and the Worlds in the Silver Sea are not the same thing. Claiming that the statement about Venuzdonoa being capable of destroying "All of existence" also applies to the Silver Sea itself would be equating the Worlds in the Silver Sea to the actual Silver Sea, and they very clearly aren't the same thing. On top of that, Venuzdonoa has no feats even remotely comparable to that.

This is where you wrong fuckah, All of existence is not limiting to the bubbles itself.

The narrative is Anos' thoughts.

No, it is not. I will gladly give you the entire chapter and my input on it if you ask. As an author, it is clear to me the difference between a person's thoughts and a simple narrative.

3. The narrative itself never stated that Anos was fated to destroy the Silver Sea. Parrington, a near-perfect Lion of Destruction did. Parrington's knowledge of the Lions of Destruction stems from the conceptual Lion of Destruction that all other Lions of Destruction (including Anos) are incarnations of. The conceptual Lion of Destruction has no feats of even affecting the Silver Sea itself. In fact, it is completely featless. Moreover, "fated to destroy the Silver Sea" can have different interpretations. It doesn't neccessarily mean that Anos could destroy the entire Silver Sea at once. The only way to determine which interpretation is most likely to be correct is by going off of previous feats in the series. And no feats in the series even remotely support that interpretation. Remember, Parrington himself is a near-perfect Lion of Destruction, and in Anos' fight with him, they only affected a single Deep World. Said Deep World wasn't even destroyed, and you have to remember that there are countless Worlds in each layer, and 99+ layers. No feats or statements in the series support or prove the interpretation of Parrington's statement that Anos can literally destroy the entire Silver Sea at once.

This is the same way why Three Color Battles only affecting two multiverse beside Ren Fuji, Reinhard and Snek being 1-A. And the same way why Tenma Yato didn't just split the universe with his blade while fighting Habaki in KKK while his tier is 1-A.
They have Taikyoku, the source of all laws in the world itself. And comparably Anos can destroy The Holy Silver Sea because of the destruction of reason and order itself.

2. No. Refer to point 3.

Your point is a joke.
The same reason why Taikyoku in Masadaverse is 1-A without limiting itself to cosmology.
This is literally the same why Tenma Yato and Habaki Sakagami have 1-A ratings besides their fight only affecting the entire country. Why you ask?
Because they have Taikyoku, the fundamental concept that all laws in the world come from. They don't need to destroy the entire ******* infinite-dimensional Multiverse to get this rating. Anos can destroy the Silver Sea because not only he is a Lion of Destruction, but because he can destroy Reason and Order, the fundamental concept that the Holy Silver Sea was built.
Tenma Yato can just slice the entire universe in his fight against Habaki, but he didn't need to because he only need the destruction of his foe, not the universe. He is focusing an Outversal attack into a single enemy. This is the same logic between Parrington and Anos fight, he didn't destroy the entire cosmic structure because he don't need it and he can just kill his enemy without affecting it.

4. The Vortex being called the "Great Calamity of the Silver Sea" doesn't mean that it was a threat to the structure of the Silver Sea itself. All that was stated of it was that it damaged many small worlds. Nowhere was it stated that it affected the Silver Sea itself. You can even confirm this by checking the scans that Eldemade posted in an above comment. On top of that, while damaging many small worlds is an impressive feat, it isn't remotely comparable to the entire cosmology of the Silver Sea.

Why the **** did you bring "Great Calamity of the Silver Sea" here?
You just trolling or clowning around here.
YOU KNOW WHAT? **** THIS SHIT, I"M OUT

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

No, it is not. I will gladly give you the entire chapter and my input on it if you ask. As an author, it is clear to me the difference between a person's thoughts and a simple narrative.

I've already posted the quotes that proved first-person narrative. It uses "I", "My", "Mine", "Ours", etc. In fact, 90% of the novel is in first-person narrative. Only events in which Anos clearly has not experienced is when the narration shifts, such as Celis vs Graham, which Anos only becomes aware later on in the story.

First-person narrative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"This device allows the audience to see the narrator's mind's eye view of the fictional universe,[8] but it is limited to the narrator's experiences and awareness of the true state of affairs."

So no, it is not an omniscient source, it is limited to the character's pov.

 

[Reiner04]

Ayo, calm down?

 

[Zencha9]

this is certainly a moment of all time

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Ayo, calm down?

Nah, just quoting my signature.

 

[Robo432343]

i agree with the OP
counter arguments are too good

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

i agree with the OP
counter arguments are too good

Duality for you man, such paradox are impossible for me to achieve.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Just gonna point out OP just copy pasted the argument from PREVIOUSLY 3 REJECTED threads.

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"What is a Vortex?""

It is the vortex that swallows all things, even small worlds, and is the great calamity of the Silver Water Sacred Sea. It is also called the maelstrom of malice, and is said to exist in the abyssal world."

Spoiler: Chapter 673

"That's right. The great disaster of the Silver Water Sacred Sea that occurred in the past - Vortex - caused damage to many small worlds. Many small worlds were damaged by it. Our world of magic bullets was no exception, and suffered tremendous damage."

Here Anos Stomped similar kind of Vortex created by Elmide Puppet with MEOCD by Manipulating the Reason.

Because of these scans OP debunks literary has zero value to downgrade Venozdonor unless someone shows a Anti feats or Statement for Silver Sea lacking existence . I am done with OP who is acting like he read the series while lying about whole thing without even sending a single scan until now.

Also his lies about ABYSS World = Eve Zenio without a proof. No one except Zennia has reached past 99 layers. Yeah one more Person who is implied to reached Abyss World is Amur

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"So? Where is the abyssal world?"
Curiously, the Blaze Death King asked.
"The Abyssal World has sunk so deeply into this ocean that it is usually impossible to even perceive its existence. It is said that if you reach the ninety-ninth layer, you can barely see it from there. Other than that, Pablohetara has no information on how to get there."
"I see!"
The Great Demon King Zinnia Shivaheld rules 12 worlds of the deep, and at least one of them may be deeper than the ninety-ninth layer.

Spoiler: Chapter 693

　As I recall, according to Ottorloo, only the Demon King of the Silver Water Sacred Sea has ever been to the Abyssal World.

　Having obtained the root of the MUTO, the Grand Admiral may have made plans to go there.

---

Silver Sea is not a existence or Creation?

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"Yes. The order of the Silver Sea gives the deep worlds an advantage over the shallow worlds. The closer one gets to the abyss, the more pronounced it becomes, and it is expected that the throne of the abyssal world has remained unchanged since the birth of this sea."

Spoiler: Chapter 697

"If you don't destroy them, they will destroy you. In the Silver Water Sacred Sea, the weak are only taken by the strong. Even Pablo Hetala is talking nicely, but he is taking away the fire dew of the bubble world. Even Hyphoria is doing the same thing. This sea is made to sink from shallow to deep."

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Anyway this is my last Reply until a staff evaluates this.

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Really funny how Vortex is stated multiple times in series as great disaster of Silver Sea and can shallow all things. I hope OP STOP LYING & SENDS ACTUAL SCANS

Spoiler: Chapter 520

"I went to see the vortex."

　The two presumptuous ones respond with a straight face.

　At the far bottom of the Silver Water Sacred Sea, in the world that has reached the abyss, is the vortex that swallows all things, the Zetsu-zu, or the Great Vortex of Malice.

　It is also called the maelstrom of malice, the great calamity of the Silver Water Sacred Sea that, once set in motion, can easily swallow even the smallest world.

 

[Tatsumi504]

This is some of the dumbest and weakest shit I've ever seen.

The OP is claiming all of existence= inside the which is all anos knew about.
I've already said there are parts of the world anos didn't know about yet can still affect it.

This is all stupid as I've realized that there's no need to even bring up the vortex feat or LoD feat when all silver sea characters are capable of affecting the silver sea when they make use of the retrograde formula.

I've already stressed on what order is. For the Silver sea to exist, there must be order.
The order of the silver sea is "Power flows from shallow to deep". Power is referring to "Fire Dew" which is the fundamental part of life that including order.
Order flows from shallow to deep. Order= Laws, Concepts and Fate.
Not all deep layer magic can be used in shallow layers because those shallow layers don't have the needed laws, concepts required for those spells to function. This is where the retrograde formula comes in.
The retrograde formula reverses the flow of order in the silver sea to cause those deep layer laws and concepts to flow in reverse to the shallow layer to enable them to function.

Once again, the entire premise of this CRT is stupid.
The OP has made claims then lied about making those claims, has zero scans of "all of existence"= world inside bubble, made arguments bordering on hypocrisy, brought no new arguments and is using rejected headcanon from 2-3yrs ago.

Here are all the points that refute his shit.

1. Venuzdonoa's statement says "regardless of how sturdy, eternal or infinite it is" not "be it/whether it's indestructible, eternal or infinite"
2. There's a statement of other characters (LoD) being capable of destroying the silver sea and Venuzdonoa scales above them
3. Anos subconsciously has knowledge of things beyond the inside of a bubble considering he created 2 deep spells (EGA & Venuzdonoa) that are both deep magic with Venuzdonoa being so deep that a character as deep as 21 layers can't analyze it.
4. Why can it function in deeper layers if "all of existence"= inside bubble?
5. If Venuzdonoa, the most powerful magic so far is limited to inside the bubble why can weaker characters affect an entire bubble (which would be outside creation) itself be it by destroying them, moving them, making them prey on other bubbles?
6. Why can EGA destroy things outside existence if Venuz that is massively greater than EGA is limited to things in existence?
7. Deep World characters are capable of altering the entire order of the silver sea (retrograde formula)
8. Order is the Sub, Logic is the Dom. Logic>>>>Order, Venuzdonoa destroys Logic itself Silver sea too is governed by order. Destruction of silver sea order= destruction of the silver sea.
9. OP has openly denied autjor statements
10. Venuzdonoa has Zero anti-feats!!!!!!
11. Venuzdonoa has destroyed something (graham) that is outside order and logic itself meaning even the logic of "I'm outside logic so you can't affect me by destroying logic" is proven useless.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Asked Ant to tag Elizha lets wait.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Just gonna point out OP just copy pasted the argument from PREVIOUSLY 3 REJECTED threads.

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"What is a Vortex?""

It is the vortex that swallows all things, even small worlds, and is the great calamity of the Silver Water Sacred Sea. It is also called the maelstrom of malice, and is said to exist in the abyssal world."

Spoiler: Chapter 673

"That's right. The great disaster of the Silver Water Sacred Sea that occurred in the past - Vortex - caused damage to many small worlds. Many small worlds were damaged by it. Our world of magic bullets was no exception, and suffered tremendous damage."

Here Anos Stomped similar kind of Vortex created by Elmide Puppet with MEOCD by Manipulating the Reason.

Because of these scans OP debunks literary has zero value to downgrade Venozdonor unless someone shows a Anti feats or Statement for Silver Sea lacking existence . I am done with OP who is acting like he read the series while lying about whole thing without even sending a single scan until now.

Also his lies about ABYSS World = Eve Zenio without a proof. No one except Zennia has reached past 99 layers. Yeah one more Person who is implied to reached Abyss World is Amur

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"So? Where is the abyssal world?"
Curiously, the Blaze Death King asked.
"The Abyssal World has sunk so deeply into this ocean that it is usually impossible to even perceive its existence. It is said that if you reach the ninety-ninth layer, you can barely see it from there. Other than that, Pablohetara has no information on how to get there."
"I see!"
The Great Demon King Zinnia Shivaheld rules 12 worlds of the deep, and at least one of them may be deeper than the ninety-ninth layer.

Spoiler: Chapter 693

　As I recall, according to Ottorloo, only the Demon King of the Silver Water Sacred Sea has ever been to the Abyssal World.

　Having obtained the root of the MUTO, the Grand Admiral may have made plans to go there.

---

Silver Sea is not a existence or Creation?

Spoiler: Chapter 584

"Yes. The order of the Silver Sea gives the deep worlds an advantage over the shallow worlds. The closer one gets to the abyss, the more pronounced it becomes, and it is expected that the throne of the abyssal world has remained unchanged since the birth of this sea."

Spoiler: Chapter 697

"If you don't destroy them, they will destroy you. In the Silver Water Sacred Sea, the weak are only taken by the strong. Even Pablo Hetala is talking nicely, but he is taking away the fire dew of the bubble world. Even Hyphoria is doing the same thing. This sea is made to sink from shallow to deep."

---

---

Anyway this is my last Reply until a staff evaluates this.

---

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Really funny how Vortex is stated multiple times in series as great disaster of Silver Sea and can shallow all things. I hope OP STOP LYING & SENDS ACTUAL SCANS

Spoiler: Chapter 520

"I went to see the vortex."

　The two presumptuous ones respond with a straight face.

　At the far bottom of the Silver Water Sacred Sea, in the world that has reached the abyss, is the vortex that swallows all things, the Zetsu-zu, or the Great Vortex of Malice.

　It is also called the maelstrom of malice, the great calamity of the Silver Water Sacred Sea that, once set in motion, can easily swallow even the smallest world.

1. Those scans didn't disprove anything I've said. I'm also not going to repeat my explanation of "all of existence" to you, especially since you're not even arguing against my actual explanation to begin with.

2. That scan doesn't prove that the Silver Sea was created. Just that it came into existence at one point. As for the "existence" thing, I've already explained myself. Multiple times. Yet you're not even arguing against what I said about it.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

This is some of the dumbest and weakest shit I've ever seen.

The OP is claiming all of existence= inside the which is all anos knew about.
I've already said there are parts of the world anos didn't know about yet can still affect it.

This is all stupid as I've realized that there's no need to even bring up the vortex feat or LoD feat when all silver sea characters are capable of affecting the silver sea when they make use of the retrograde formula.

I've already stressed on what order is. For the Silver sea to exist, there must be order.
The order of the silver sea is "Power flows from shallow to deep". Power is referring to "Fire Dew" which is the fundamental part of life that including order.
Order flows from shallow to deep. Order= Laws, Concepts and Fate.
Not all deep layer magic can be used in shallow layers because those shallow layers don't have the needed laws, concepts required for those spells to function. This is where the retrograde formula comes in.
The retrograde formula reverses the flow of order in the silver sea to cause those deep layer laws and concepts to flow in reverse to the shallow layer to enable them to function.

Once again, the entire premise of this CRT is stupid.
The OP has made claims then lied about making those claims, has zero scans of "all of existence"= world inside bubble, made arguments bordering on hypocrisy, brought no new arguments and is using rejected headcanon from 2-3yrs ago.

Here are all the points that refute his shit.

1. Venuzdonoa's statement says "regardless of how sturdy, eternal or infinite it is" not "be it/whether it's indestructible, eternal or infinite"
2. There's a statement of other characters (LoD) being capable of destroying the silver sea and Venuzdonoa scales above them
3. Anos subconsciously has knowledge of things beyond the inside of a bubble considering he created 2 deep spells (EGA & Venuzdonoa) that are both deep magic with Venuzdonoa being so deep that a character as deep as 21 layers can't analyze it.
4. Why can it function in deeper layers if "all of existence"= inside bubble?
5. If Venuzdonoa, the most powerful magic so far is limited to inside the bubble why can weaker characters affect an entire bubble (which would be outside creation) itself be it by destroying them, moving them, making them prey on other bubbles?
6. Why can EGA destroy things outside existence if Venuz that is massively greater than EGA is limited to things in existence?
7. Deep World characters are capable of altering the entire order of the silver sea (retrograde formula)
8. Order is the Sub, Logic is the Dom. Logic>>>>Order, Venuzdonoa destroys Logic itself Silver sea too is governed by order. Destruction of silver sea order= destruction of the silver sea.
9. OP has openly denied autjor statements
10. Venuzdonoa has Zero anti-feats!!!!!!
11. Venuzdonoa has destroyed something (graham) that is outside order and logic itself meaning even the logic of "I'm outside logic so you can't affect me by destroying logic" is proven useless.

This is by far the weakest argument brought up in this thread. I've literally already addressed multiple of your points countless times. Either you didn't read said points, you've chosen to ignore them, or you somehow failed to comprehend them.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Summary of the current arguments in this thread;

Arguments for Venuzdonoa scaling to the Silver Sea:
1. Venuzdonoa was stated to be capable of destroying all of existence
2. Venuzdonoa has no anti-feats to that statement
3. Venuzdonoa scales to Anos and it was stated that as a Lion of Destruction, he is "fated to destroy the Silver Sea"
4. Anos destroyed Elmide who controlled the Vortex which was called the Great Calamity of the Silver Sea

(My) Arguments against Venuzdonoa scaling to the Silver Sea:
1. Anos didn't know about the existence of Bubbles or the Silver Sea when he made that statement. What he was referring to as "all of existence" was the World (Militia World) and everything in it.
2. People claim that Venuzdonoa working in Deeper Worlds prove that there are no anti-feats to the statement. However, Deeper Worlds are still "all of existence" as Anos referred to, just like the Militia World is. Worlds (All of existence as was referred to by Anos at the time of the statement as he lacked knowledge of the Silver Sea) can't even survive in the environment of the Silver Sea without being surrounded by a Bubble, as the Silver Sea constantly drains magic power from everything it touches. The Silver Sea and the Worlds in the Silver Sea are not the same thing. Claiming that the statement about Venuzdonoa being capable of destroying "All of existence" also applies to the Silver Sea itself would be equating the Worlds in the Silver Sea to the actual Silver Sea, and they very clearly aren't the same thing. On top of that, Venuzdonoa has no feats even remotely comparable to that.
3. The narrative itself never stated that Anos was fated to destroy the Silver Sea. Parrington, a near-perfect Lion of Destruction did. Parrington's knowledge of the Lions of Destruction stems from the conceptual Lion of Destruction that all other Lions of Destruction (including Anos) are incarnations of. The conceptual Lion of Destruction has no feats of even affecting the Silver Sea itself. In fact, it is completely featless. Moreover, "fated to destroy the Silver Sea" can have different interpretations. It doesn't neccessarily mean that Anos could destroy the entire Silver Sea at once. The only way to determine which interpretation is most likely to be correct is by going off of previous feats in the series. And no feats in the series even remotely support that interpretation. Remember, Parrington himself is a near-perfect Lion of Destruction, and in Anos' fight with him, they only affected a single Deep World. Said Deep World wasn't even destroyed, and you have to remember that there are countless Worlds in each layer, and 99+ layers. No feats or statements in the series support or prove the interpretation of Parrington's statement that Anos can literally destroy the entire Silver Sea at once.
4. The Vortex being called the "Great Calamity of the Silver Sea" doesn't mean that it was a threat to the structure of the Silver Sea itself. All that was stated of it was that it damaged many small worlds. Nowhere was it stated that it affected the Silver Sea itself. You can even confirm this by checking the scans that Eldemade posted in an above comment. On top of that, while damaging many small worlds is an impressive feat, it isn't remotely comparable to the entire cosmology of the Silver Sea.

Keep in mind, this is just a summary of the points made. The thread itself provides more context to these arguments, both for and against.

Summary of the current state of the thread, for reference.

Anyways, I'll be logging off for now.

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is not how to refute, @MaxLevel_King. Simply saying “Your argument is weak, I have already addressed it”. Tons of people here, including staff members also repeatedly addressed the points.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This is not how to refute, @MaxLevel_King. Simply saying “Your argument is weak, I have already addressed it”. Tons of people here, including staff members also repeatedly addressed the points.

More like he is lying about many things. Look how he ducked to send scans for his claim of Vortex Existing in Eve Zenio.

 

[Tatsumi504]

This is by far the weakest argument brought up in this thread. I've literally already addressed multiple of your points countless times. Either you didn't read said points, you've chosen to ignore them, or you somehow failed to comprehend them.

This is not how to refute, @MaxLevel_King. Simply saying “Your argument is weak, I have already addressed it”. Tons of people here, including staff members also repeatedly addressed the points.

Lol, bruh calls my argument weak, doesn't even refute how all SS characters can reverse the flow of Order in the entire sea not to mention Venuzdonoa

More like he is lying about many things. Look how he ducked to send scans for his claim of Vortex Existing in Eve Zenio.

Bruh, leave the vortex stuff out for now. He dug his grave with that one. Let him refute how all SS characters can reverse the flow of the fundamental aspect of life that governs everything even the silver sea itself.

With this i can give all characters 6D hax while keeping the layers. Lol

 

[Antvasima]

@CrimsonStarFallen @Dereck03 @Elizhaa

What do you think about this?

 

[Dereck03]

@CrimsonStarFallen @Dereck03 @Elizhaa

What do you think about this?

I have completely rejected this thread before, OP keep going in circles with the same arguments from 2 years ago, with 0 scans, 0 proof, claiming the same thing that has been debunked previously, we've already dealed with all of this here

Venuzdonoa/Anos possible downgrade

This is my first CRT. I believe Venuzdonoa shouldn't be 2-B. Here's why Note: Every scan and translation were gotten from past CRTs, the accepted cosmology blog for the verse and Anos page as I am not quite knowledgeable on the verse. Reason why Venuzdonoa is 2-B "Venuzdonoa can destroy all...

vsbattles.com

https://vsbattles.com/threads/anos-voldigoad-tier-removal-downgrade.118171/

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-very-last-anos-voldigoad-downgrade-crt.118435/

The only thing that might be passable here would be to reform Venuzdonoa's AP to avoid further confusion and perhaps create a rule to prevent all this from being discussed again.

Edit. Just check all the specific points of the 3 threads I mentioned especially look only at the OP of this thread, in which it is practically copy-paste with nothing new from this new thread. And medeus already agreed with me therefor disagree with the thread.

 

[wwereymy235]

The true purpose of this thread is to reawaken AncientKing from his deep slumber.

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah at this point there should be a discussion rule against these kinds of threads, it's really headache to deal each time.

 

[Peak]

4 threads and OP owner didn't submit ONE support scan

 

[MaxLevel_King]

More like he is lying about many things. Look how he ducked to send scans for his claim of Vortex Existing in Eve Zenio.

Since you love claiming that I'm lying so much, here you go;

Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/629/ The lion of Arzenon's destruction is <Abyss of Craving>, a phantom beast born from the abyss. If so, the bottom of the water must be near. . . "If you're hungry, it's natural to eat your prey. But Evezeino isn't even hungry, but he's trying to eat Hyphoria.". . . "This stupid puddle of craving is Eve Zeino's instinct. If Eve Zeino is crazy, there may be a trick in this abyss.". . . In the abyss of the Calamity World, it is not clear why Nijiro, the order of the Holy Sword World, is working so clearly. . . It is possible that now that the two silver bubbles are in contact with each other, they are affecting their respective worlds, but this is beyond speculation. . . Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/630/ I've hypothesized that it's a weapon to invade the Abyssal World, but nothing is actually known yet. . . . "There is almost no water flow at the bottom of the water." There is also the flow of magic power. However, only Nijiji was torn apart by some force, and was swirling at the bottom of <Abyss of Craving>. "Is it the work of a disaster?" Leowolf opened his mouth. “Is it hard to think?” Eife immediately denied it. "It's been a while since Evezeino joined Pablohetara's Academy Alliance. Because the disaster continued to sleep during that time.". . . The bottom of the abyss has never been visited by anyone other than Isaac the Disaster. . . "...Are you saying this? 　The Calamity Abyss World Evezeino was manipulated by someone and devoured our holy sword world." Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/631/ Before long, it created a whirlpool of water currents and a whirlpool of magical power, and began to stir <Abyss of Craving>. The vortex that had only affected Nijiji interfered with the water flow and the magic field, and was finally reflected clearly in the demonic eye. The identity of what is shaking the bottom of the water with its tremendous power is -- craving. The people's hearts that have accumulated in this <Abyss of Craving> are violently swirling. Even in the depths of the world, it was not an ordinary power.

The Abyss of Craving in Evezeino and the Abyssal World clearly aren't the same thing. It was stated in the scans I posted that only Yzak ("Issac") managed to visit the bottom of the abyss. We already know that the Great Demon King Zinnia Shivaheld lies beyond the Abyss past 99 layers. These two abyss' clearly aren't the same thing.

You have no credibility whatsoever, and nothing you post after this should be taken seriously. It would be one thing if you simply asked for scans in order for me to prove myself, but you've gone out of your way to call me a liar and paint me as fraudulent multiple times when you haven't even read the story.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Since you love claiming that I'm lying so much, here you go;

Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/629/ The lion of Arzenon's destruction is <Abyss of Craving>, a phantom beast born from the abyss. If so, the bottom of the water must be near. . . "If you're hungry, it's natural to eat your prey. But Evezeino isn't even hungry, but he's trying to eat Hyphoria.". . . "This stupid puddle of craving is Eve Zeino's instinct. If Eve Zeino is crazy, there may be a trick in this abyss.". . . In the abyss of the Calamity World, it is not clear why Nijiro, the order of the Holy Sword World, is working so clearly. . . It is possible that now that the two silver bubbles are in contact with each other, they are affecting their respective worlds, but this is beyond speculation. . . Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/630/ I've hypothesized that it's a weapon to invade the Abyssal World, but nothing is actually known yet. . . . "There is almost no water flow at the bottom of the water." There is also the flow of magic power. However, only Nijiji was torn apart by some force, and was swirling at the bottom of <Abyss of Craving>. "Is it the work of a disaster?" Leowolf opened his mouth. “Is it hard to think?” Eife immediately denied it. "It's been a while since Evezeino joined Pablohetara's Academy Alliance. Because the disaster continued to sleep during that time.". . . The bottom of the abyss has never been visited by anyone other than Isaac the Disaster. . . "...Are you saying this? 　The Calamity Abyss World Evezeino was manipulated by someone and devoured our holy sword world." Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/631/ Before long, it created a whirlpool of water currents and a whirlpool of magical power, and began to stir <Abyss of Craving>. The vortex that had only affected Nijiji interfered with the water flow and the magic field, and was finally reflected clearly in the demonic eye. The identity of what is shaking the bottom of the water with its tremendous power is -- craving. The people's hearts that have accumulated in this <Abyss of Craving> are violently swirling. Even in the depths of the world, it was not an ordinary power.

Don't see a single quote stating Vortex which affected the silver sea exists in Eve Zenio. Yeah you still lying.

Where did it states Abyssal world = Eve Zenio?
Abyss of Craving ≠ Abyss world.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Lol, bruh calls my argument weak, doesn't even refute how all SS characters can reverse the flow of Order in the entire sea not to mention Venuzdonoa

Bruh, leave the vortex stuff out for now. He dug his grave with that one. Let him refute how all SS characters can reverse the flow of the fundamental aspect of life that governs everything even the silver sea itself.

With this i can give all characters 6D hax while keeping the layers. Lol

You have to prove how "SS characters (every character is "part" of the Silver Sea to begin with, as every World is part of the Silver Sea)" reversing the flow of Order via magic is equivalent to affecting the structure/cosmology of the Silver Sea itself. Nowhere in the story is it stated that reversing the flow of Order via magic (ie allowing deep magic spells to work in shallower Worlds or deepening shallow magic to be effective in Deep Worlds) affects the Silver Sea structure itself. Neither is it stated that the Silver Sea is dependent on Order either.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Summary of the current arguments in this thread;

Arguments for Venuzdonoa scaling to the Silver Sea:
1. Venuzdonoa was stated to be capable of destroying all of existence
2. Venuzdonoa has no anti-feats to that statement
3. Venuzdonoa scales to Anos and it was stated that as a Lion of Destruction, he is "fated to destroy the Silver Sea"
4. Anos destroyed Elmide who controlled the Vortex which was called the Great Calamity of the Silver Sea

(My) Arguments against Venuzdonoa scaling to the Silver Sea:
1. Anos didn't know about the existence of Bubbles or the Silver Sea when he made that statement. What he was referring to as "all of existence" was the World (Militia World) and everything in it.
2. People claim that Venuzdonoa working in Deeper Worlds prove that there are no anti-feats to the statement. However, Deeper Worlds are still "all of existence" as Anos referred to, just like the Militia World is. Worlds (All of existence as was referred to by Anos at the time of the statement as he lacked knowledge of the Silver Sea) can't even survive in the environment of the Silver Sea without being surrounded by a Bubble, as the Silver Sea constantly drains magic power from everything it touches. The Silver Sea and the Worlds in the Silver Sea are not the same thing. Claiming that the statement about Venuzdonoa being capable of destroying "All of existence" also applies to the Silver Sea itself would be equating the Worlds in the Silver Sea to the actual Silver Sea, and they very clearly aren't the same thing. On top of that, Venuzdonoa has no feats even remotely comparable to that.
3. The narrative itself never stated that Anos was fated to destroy the Silver Sea. Parrington, a near-perfect Lion of Destruction did. Parrington's knowledge of the Lions of Destruction stems from the conceptual Lion of Destruction that all other Lions of Destruction (including Anos) are incarnations of. The conceptual Lion of Destruction has no feats of even affecting the Silver Sea itself. In fact, it is completely featless. Moreover, "fated to destroy the Silver Sea" can have different interpretations. It doesn't neccessarily mean that Anos could destroy the entire Silver Sea at once. The only way to determine which interpretation is most likely to be correct is by going off of previous feats in the series. And no feats in the series even remotely support that interpretation. Remember, Parrington himself is a near-perfect Lion of Destruction, and in Anos' fight with him, they only affected a single Deep World. Said Deep World wasn't even destroyed, and you have to remember that there are countless Worlds in each layer, and 99+ layers. No feats or statements in the series support or prove the interpretation of Parrington's statement that Anos can literally destroy the entire Silver Sea at once.
4. The Vortex being called the "Great Calamity of the Silver Sea" doesn't mean that it was a threat to the structure of the Silver Sea itself. All that was stated of it was that it damaged many small worlds. Nowhere was it stated that it affected the Silver Sea itself. You can even confirm this by checking the scans that Eldemade posted in an above comment. On top of that, while damaging many small worlds is an impressive feat, it isn't remotely comparable to the entire cosmology of the Silver Sea.

Keep in mind, this is just a summary of the points made. The thread itself provides more context to these arguments, both for and against.

@Antvasima Summary of current arguments in thread up above

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Since you love claiming that I'm lying so much, here you go;

Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/629/ The lion of Arzenon's destruction is <Abyss of Craving>, a phantom beast born from the abyss. If so, the bottom of the water must be near. . . "If you're hungry, it's natural to eat your prey. But Evezeino isn't even hungry, but he's trying to eat Hyphoria.". . . "This stupid puddle of craving is Eve Zeino's instinct. If Eve Zeino is crazy, there may be a trick in this abyss.". . . In the abyss of the Calamity World, it is not clear why Nijiro, the order of the Holy Sword World, is working so clearly. . . It is possible that now that the two silver bubbles are in contact with each other, they are affecting their respective worlds, but this is beyond speculation. . . Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/630/ I've hypothesized that it's a weapon to invade the Abyssal World, but nothing is actually known yet. . . . "There is almost no water flow at the bottom of the water." There is also the flow of magic power. However, only Nijiji was torn apart by some force, and was swirling at the bottom of <Abyss of Craving>. "Is it the work of a disaster?" Leowolf opened his mouth. “Is it hard to think?” Eife immediately denied it. "It's been a while since Evezeino joined Pablohetara's Academy Alliance. Because the disaster continued to sleep during that time.". . . The bottom of the abyss has never been visited by anyone other than Isaac the Disaster. . . "...Are you saying this? 　The Calamity Abyss World Evezeino was manipulated by someone and devoured our holy sword world." Source: https://ncode.syosetu.com/n1578dx/631/ Before long, it created a whirlpool of water currents and a whirlpool of magical power, and began to stir <Abyss of Craving>. The vortex that had only affected Nijiji interfered with the water flow and the magic field, and was finally reflected clearly in the demonic eye. The identity of what is shaking the bottom of the water with its tremendous power is -- craving. The people's hearts that have accumulated in this <Abyss of Craving> are violently swirling. Even in the depths of the world, it was not an ordinary power.

The Abyss of Craving in Evezeino and the Abyssal World clearly aren't the same thing. It was stated in the scans I posted that only Yzak ("Issac") managed to visit the bottom of the abyss. We already know that the Great Demon King Zinnia Shivaheld lies beyond the Abyss past 99 layers. These two abyss' clearly aren't the same thing.

You have no credibility whatsoever, and nothing you post after this should be taken seriously. It would be one thing if you simply asked for scans in order for me to prove myself, but you've gone out of your way to call me a liar and paint me as fraudulent multiple times when you haven't even read the story.

Again for gods sake stop lying.

You cutted the part the Vortex created in Eve Zenio world was by Elmide. Dude don't keep this dishonest behaviour here.

　The magic circle he drew gathered tremendous magical power.

" Vortex "

　Elmide mutters a word.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Don't see a single quote stating Vortex which affected the silver sea exists in Eve Zenio. Yeah you still lying.

Where did it states Abyssal world = Eve Zenio?
Abyss of Craving ≠ Abyss world.

It doesn't state that the Abyssal World is Evezeino, that's my point. It's not. The Calamity Abyss World Evezeino and the Abyssal World aren't the same thing. The scans also made it pretty clear that the Abyss of Craving is in Evezeino. I don't know how you're trying to argue that they don't.

On top of that, you continue to try to shamelessly claim that I'm a liar without even having read the story. Why then, do you think that anything you say would have any validity?

 

[Dereck03]

Neither is it stated that the Silver Sea is dependent on Order either.

The World's depth is the strength of the World's Order. It refers to the great influence the Small Worlds have on the Silver Sea. Magic power flows from the Shallow Layer to the Deep Layer, and the Order exerts its power from Shallow to Deep."

"According to the Order of the Silver Sea, magic power flows to the deep layer and the Order exerts its power to the depths.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Man must be so desperate he had to cut lines and makes lies just for his downgrade thread to get accepted.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Everyone needs to calm down and stop with the someone is lying or not.
and the opposers of this thread should pick a single person to reply to the OP, him having to reply 4/5 people at the same time is overwhelming.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Again for gods sake stop lying.

You cutted the part the Vortex created in Eve Zenio world was by Elmide. Dude don't keep this dishonest behaviour here.

Yes, it was. What's your point? The Vortex in the Calamity Abyss World in Evezeino and the Abyssal World aren't the same thing. It's hard to even argue with you, because you literally have no background knowledge of the story to begin with, so I need to thouroughly explain every single little point I make and it's tiresome. Your confidence in your statements are entirely unfounded.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

"According to the Order of the Silver Sea" doesn't imply that the structure/cosmology of the Silver Sea itself is dependent on it. You're trying to emphasize a moot point.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, it was. What's your point? The Vortex in the Calamity Abyss World in Evezeino and the Abyssal World aren't the same thing. It's hard to even argue with you, because you literally have no background knowledge of the story to begin with, so I need to thouroughly explain every single little point I make and it's tiresome. Your confidence in your statements are entirely unfounded.

What TF are you talking about now ? Elmide created the vortex it didn't existed in Eve Zenio. You literary cropped the scan just to claim vortex existed in Eve Zenio that's still a lie

 

[ImmortalDread]

"According to the Order of the Silver Sea" doesn't imply that the structure/cosmology of the Silver Sea itself is dependent on it. You're trying to emphasize a moot point.

Bro what? Did you listen to yourself once?