Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) VS Gaara (New Era) (14-11-0) (GRACE)

[Robo432343]

IM CLOSING THIS THREAD

 

[Omegabronic]

In the profile It says Just hours, not days.

Yeah, he can fight for hours while having barely any rest between days

He can survive a One-Shot? How?

Substitution jutsu

He can't constantly use subs jutsu trought.

He can actually, sakura showed that in her fight against the sound ninja

So? What's that have to do with Vegeta spamming his attacks until Gaara can't Dodge anymore?

gaara is faster than vegeta, so if he spams he is going to hit more and get in the way of vegeta spaming, also i don't think vegeta spams very much in character does he?

Planetary range.

For the kiblasts themselves, not his explosions from it, well outside of the galick gun, but if he does that he would be screwed too soooo

I gonna ignore the fact you saying that Gaara is faster, since speed Amp of oozaru is a thing.

It is unquantifiably faster while gaara hugely upscales from the value as well

The point here is that If a bunch of sand is around him, he can disperse with the Explosion, him using hand don't really matter.
And he can Very Quick too.

Just for them all to reform almost instantly and then come for him again, or he just makes more sand after him, or both

Is the same technique.

Proof?

He needing to move don't really matter, he can do the attack even If he got caught.

not if he needs to move to do the thing

A level Island explosion?

eveb if cegeta can do that, he doesn't seem to do it in character from what we saw of his fight in the sayan saga

If he can.

class G vs class K, yes he can very much do it

In the scenario of this battle, did he fight in the same conditions? Because Gaara would be setting Chakra way different If what you Said actually How he would fight.

people far stronger and spam guys, yeah pretty much yeah

I mean, If he rested for hours i don't think the stamina think counts.

he "rested" for like, 1 hour tops, just to go fight for night to almost day immediatly after, and he stilk had chackra to spare

Is big enough that he can't give Gaara breathing Room, since he would be receiving attacks that his shields can't tank It, and giving the fact you say he would be dodging too, spamming is gonna be hard.

vegeta doesn't seem to spam much in character, gaara would have kilometers of sand on him first before he realizes that he needs to do that, and then just keep him stuck in with massive LS advantage

Right.

A few meters.

Then it is really irrelevant since they are 500 meters apart, dunno how relevant the votes based on that are anymore tbh

The whole speed thing is kind of a issue, since we can't agree How much faster Vegeta gets, i think we should just make speed equal, or agree in number for the amp for speed to vegeta.

Nah, he is juat unquantifiably faster, it is a pretty comon thing around here honestly

Can you quantify how much he got damaged and make a boost from how much weaker he'd be? He was still injured at that point

We can't quantify, he wad injured sure, but not by a really great ammount like goku was

I'm not doubting Vegeta his statement just says may which implies he doesn't know how much it "may" decrease and Goku thinks Vegeta is planning something and is wondering why he would make himself that much weaker

the "that much weaker" part is not a thing at all, he is just confused for why would he low his power at all during that time, nothing indicates the ammount

so it has to be drastic although how much he got weaker can't be quantified

Not according to vegeta and his reactions to it

He was bleeding multiple times during the fight but at that moment I'm pretty sure he just wiped off the blood and I'm talking about Vegeta being severely damaged because I'm pretty sure he was hit by a spirit bomb at that point but you may correct me if I'm wrong

You are wrong, very much wrong, and he wad not really bleeding much tbh, only through his mouth ocasionaly, but goku was also and even far worst than that

Both of their clothing were worn out and battered up because they were both injured which was the point I was making

Yeah, they receiving damage is obvious, but that doesn't affect my point, i did comment on vegeta's damage, he is just far, far better than goku in that situation

I can't tell what you're saying here but are you saying he gets hit by the spirit bomb as an oozaru? Again I'm not sure what you're saying here or if you're saying he got hit by the spirit bomb after he detransformed out of oozaru

After he detransformed

When did Goku say that he thought Vegeta's power was weak

Not really, he said that he power droped and never gives any hint to the ammount

he was questioning what Vegeta was planning because when he formed the artifical moon in his hand his power dropped

And also the big banter explanation and threat that vegeta did before that, you are forgeting this detail, but anyway, goku comenting on it doesn't prove that the debuff was big like you are implying

Again he never assumed he was gonna get attacked by this he was just wondering what Vegeta's plan was because this technique dropped his power

which also confused him even more, since the thing was really weak, so why would vegeta do that? That was his doubt

It's in the op

what are you refering to?

Why would that be nonsensical? Goku is talking about hypotheticals like a hypothetical kaioken x5

yeah, a kaioken x5 in his current situation, since that is the entire thing he is talking about during that whole scene

Well battle power refers to the readings produced by scouters in where the reading is converted into numbers based on the detection of their ki so are you saying power doesn't refer to BP in this instance and that if it did say BP it'd be valid? This argument does work because of how BP functions

i am confused, did you agreed with me? My argument is that the quote is just the vague power statement and that it doesn't really refer to Power level, but even then we don't scale PL like that at all in the series

4x AP is enough for Vegeta to penetrate and destroy his sand especially considering it was able to be penetrated by a chidori

Penetrate? Yes, destroy completely leaving no trace? No

Interesting I do not recall Gaara ever using those types of jutsus but does he only do this once or does he do this consistently within the series because if it's a one time thing against Lee that's not really ic

He never really fights much tbh, he mostly does that when he is in corner, it is not super in character, but he would use eventually or if he needed to survive

I see that youtube comment on the video lied to me saying Gaara waited at the top of his palace for DeidarA

Youtube is not viable, i saw 1-A naruto there once lol

 

[Omegabronic]

IM CLOSING THIS THREAD

The we shall add as incon in both pages

 

[YungManzi]

I don't see how that matters, since Gaara still can't speedblitz him before Vegeta points at him.

DF here is flat out not a wincon unless you assume Vegeta has powers that aren't on his profile, and/or Amaterasu is a projectile which contradicts Sasuke's profile.

 

[Fezzih_007]

The we shall add as incon in both pages

I'm Fine with inco yeah.
Wee Just need to wait a few more hours.

 

[Omegabronic]

I'm Fine with inco yeah.
Wee Just need to wait a few more hours.

How much more?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Yeah, he can fight for hours while having barely any rest between days


Substitution jutsu


He can actually, sakura showed that in her fight against the sound ninja


gaara is faster than vegeta, so if he spams he is going to hit more and get in the way of vegeta spaming, also i don't think vegeta spams very much in character does he?


For the kiblasts themselves, not his explosions from it, well outside of the galick gun, but if he does that he would be screwed too soooo


It is unquantifiably faster while gaara hugely upscales from the value as well


Just for them all to reform almost instantly and then come for him again, or he just makes more sand after him, or both


Proof?


not if he needs to move to do the thing


eveb if cegeta can do that, he doesn't seem to do it in character from what we saw of his fight in the sayan saga


class G vs class K, yes he can very much do it


people far stronger and spam guys, yeah pretty much yeah


he "rested" for like, 1 hour tops, just to go fight for night to almost day immediatly after, and he stilk had chackra to spare



vegeta doesn't seem to spam much in character, gaara would have kilometers of sand on him first before he realizes that he needs to do that, and then just keep him stuck in with massive LS advantage


Then it is really irrelevant since they are 500 meters apart, dunno how relevant the votes based on that are anymore tbh


Nah, he is juat unquantifiably faster, it is a pretty comon thing around here honestly


We can't quantify, he wad injured sure, but not by a really great ammount like goku was


the "that much weaker" part is not a thing at all, he is just confused for why would he low his power at all during that time, nothing indicates the ammount


Not according to vegeta and his reactions to it


You are wrong, very much wrong, and he wad not really bleeding much tbh, only through his mouth ocasionaly, but goku was also and even far worst than that


Yeah, they receiving damage is obvious, but that doesn't affect my point, i did comment on vegeta's damage, he is just far, far better than goku in that situation


After he detransformed


Not really, he said that he power droped and never gives any hint to the ammount


And also the big banter explanation and threat that vegeta did before that, you are forgeting this detail, but anyway, goku comenting on it doesn't prove that the debuff was big like you are implying


which also confused him even more, since the thing was really weak, so why would vegeta do that? That was his doubt


what are you refering to?


yeah, a kaioken x5 in his current situation, since that is the entire thing he is talking about during that whole scene


i am confused, did you agreed with me? My argument is that the quote is just the vague power statement and that it doesn't really refer to Power level, but even then we don't scale PL like that at all in the series


Penetrate? Yes, destroy completely leaving no trace? No


He never really fights much tbh, he mostly does that when he is in corner, it is not super in character, but he would use eventually or if he needed to survive


Youtube is not viable, i saw 1-A naruto there once lol

We have to take stamina and other factors into consideration when dealing with determining how much weaker someone is compared to someone due to damage they took it just can't be quanitifed

What? He said his power dropped when he made the artificial moon what you said was just head canon

Not even Vegeta was sure as he said "may"

Again we can't quantify how much weaker but yeah both were injured

I dont know what banter you're referring to

What weak attack? Goku never said he was confused on why vegeta powered up a weak attack in exchange for his power dropping Vegeta's power dropped and Goku was wondering what was he planning stop with this headcanon

Bojack and Oozaru crt

It could be referring to in general or peak but I think it was accepted that it was referring to his peak

I'm asking are you saying that we can't use this for speed because it doesn't mention PL and would it mentioning PL or BP stop this discussion on the speed amp because ki is merely a device is used to detect a person's ki so BP is dependent on your ki also SSJ is accepted due to this and the fact that it's shown having a speed amp which is similar to this situation

Probably to a similar degree of Sasuke's chidori but dependent on the range that his attack covers so the larger the aoe the more effective

Well he fights in boruto and in the great ninja war and I don't think he used it ever in those situations

Well I was just watching deidara vs gaara video and a comment by some guy named Yeety Dabs said "Gaara just waiting for Deidara at the top of of the palace has to be one of the coldest moments in the show" So I assumed that's what happened but he was probably lying

The we shall add as incon in both pages

Nah it's 10-8-0 Vegeta would get the W

DF here is flat out not a wincon unless you assume Vegeta has powers that aren't on his profile, and/or Amaterasu is a projectile which contradicts Sasuke's profile.

? What DF isn't contradictory on his profile and a scan was sent earlier that it was accurate to what the profile says noticing a lot of arguing accepted stuff in this crt

I'm Fine with inco yeah.
Wee Just need to wait a few more hours.

Vegeta has more votes though

 

[SlendVeny]

I don't see how that matters, since Gaara still can't speedblitz him before Vegeta points at him.

He doesn't need to blitz, and seeing him outspeed would lead Vegeta to realize he was a strong opponent.

 

[Omegabronic]

We have to take stamina and other factors into consideration when dealing with determining how much weaker someone is compared to someone due to damage they took it just can't be quanitifed

yeah, i did that, goku is far worst than vegeta in this regard as well, since he is constantly using a technique that drains his stamina and ki, also contrary to vegeta goku's body was at its limits, so this point is really moot, in fact, after trying the genki dama once he got completely out of energy and couldn't even move his nose lol

What? He said his power dropped when he made the artificial moon

so? when had i said that it didn't drop?

what you said was just head canon

nope, what you said is since it has no real ground for it to be in the scene at all

Not even Vegeta was sure as he said "may"

don't ignore my earlier points that covered this, he was not once proven wrong in the scene, he is the one with the most knoledge in the thing, he has a pretty good validity when it comes to this, he was not even surprised after his power droped when he made the ball, which wouldn't make sense if he was wrong, again, do you have any good proof at all that vegeta was completely wrong in his own technique effect?

Again we can't quantify how much weaker but yeah both were injured

we can say for sure that goku was much, much worse, given all the evidence provided and the statements made

I dont know what banter you're referring to

the whole "experience true terror as i unleash the true power of the sayans race and bla bla bla" that he does before even forming the moon ball thing

What weak attack? Goku never said he was confused on why vegeta powered up a weak attack in exchange for his power

he also never said that he was because of a suposedly huge decrease in said power yet you are arguing it to no end

dropping Vegeta's power dropped and Goku was wondering what was he planning

yeah, he gave a whole speech about sayan power and then said that he would unleash his true potential just to get weaker by a small ball of light that didn't look particularly powerful, no shit he was confused

stop with this headcanon

it is not headcanon since i am giving up credibility with the context of the series, look at the definition dude

Bojack and Oozaru crt

oh okay, but looking at the op i don't see anything related to speed in the op of that thread at all, seriosly the speed part upgrade was not accepted nor proposed

It could be referring to in general or peak but I think it was accepted that it was referring to his peak

reading the thread this was not seen to be the case, also explain how could that possibly be refering to his peak condition when nothing of sorts is ever said at all?

I'm asking are you saying that we can't use this for speed because it doesn't mention PL and would it mentioning PL or BP

i am saying that since he specifies power we can't really apply it to speed

stop this discussion on the speed amp because ki is merely a device is used to detect a person's ki

ki is a device to detect ki? tf?

so BP is dependent on your ki

so? if by BP you mean PL, then that is wrong in how we scale things, very wrong

also SSJ is accepted due to this

it is due to direct comparison to kaioken multipliers and even a weaker goku being stronger than freeza 100%, not because of BP shenanigans

and the fact that it's shown having a speed amp which is similar to this situation

it isn't and i am tired of having to keep repeating the same thing over and over

Probably to a similar degree of Sasuke's chidori

then my point stays completely the same

but dependent on the range that his attack covers so the larger the aoe the more effective

nah not really, if you want to compare to sasuke chidori then my point doesn't change at all

Well he fights in boruto and in the great ninja war and I don't think he used it ever in those situations

mostly because of no oportunity tbh

Nah it's 10-8-0 Vegeta would get the W

nope, read the rules again, the difference is not of 4 votes, therefore the match ends in an incon since they are so close in votes, a few hours to go

? What DF isn't contradictory on his profile and a scan was sent earlier that it was accurate to what the profile says noticing a lot of arguing accepted stuff in this crt

and to things that were not accepted or even proposed in the first place

Vegeta has more votes though

the difference is not enough

 

[denisnic55]

Easy vote for Vegeta. If it was Goku, I would have voted for Gaara.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah, he can fight for hours while having barely any rest between days

That's not what you said first, you Said he can fight for days, not hours with barelly rest between days, that's Very different.

people far stronger and spam guys, yeah pretty much yeah

You keep saying without barelly any proof, i not gonna exactly believe you. Same conditions as this fight would be Alone, constantly have to block attack stronger than himself, Dodge several meters of radiu Blast explosion, and a whole desert to him Control, and a opponent who can fly, did he fight someone in this conditions? Because if not, his Chakra gonna be spedding Very difference to compare.

Substitution jutsu

You Said he can survive, as in take the attack, but still able to fight, not that he can Dodge, we already gone by that.

He can actually, sakura showed that in her fight against the sound ninja

Can you provide a example? Because i don't remember that.

gaara is faster than vegeta,

Ah

so if he spams he is going to hit more and get in the way of vegeta spaming

Again, considering the AP difference, Vegeta can take most hits than Gaara, and Gaara shields xan take the blunt of the attack Very well, so is much more likely that he is gonna be able to hit Gaara eventualy, him spamming don't matter.

For the kiblasts themselves, not his explosions from it, well outside of the galick gun, but if he does that he would be screwed too soooo

You know, If he can cause a Planet level destruction with his strongest attack, causing a smaler one smaler level explosion in each can hit Gaara is literaly not a issue, since he also 10x times stronger here, sending his Ki Blast with a big área of effect is not a problem. You arguing that is not his Power, and is just a specifice technique don't make much sense. And also one of vegeta attacks:
The Moon shines down
If you want argue that he was doing this in Namek, Vegeta in Namek is weaker than Great ape vegeta. So literaly every attack he can do is stronger and get a radius Blast bigger. Unless you want to argue that Power level don't equal better destruction capabilities, in each case, you gonna have to prove that, since is treated that way, you have a big Power level, you can make a bigger explosion.

It is unquantifiably faster while gaara hugely upscales from the value as well

Nah, he is juat unquantifiably faster, it is a pretty comon thing around here honestly

I pretty sure i posted Scan showing Goku saying that even with Kaioken times 5 vegeta would still be faster, is not unquantifiably.

Just for them all to reform almost instantly and then come for him again, or he just makes more sand after him, or both

That's why i Said he can gonna do a explosion big enough to hit Gaara too, so he can't stop spamming.
And destroying sand is still a thing.

Proof?

Again? Super Explosive Wave
Is still the same technique.

not if he needs to move to do the thing

What? The movent is Just him opening his arm, even If got caught, he can still do the explosion.

eveb if cegeta can do that, he doesn't seem to do it in character from what we saw of his fight in the sayan saga

He does three times on the battle
1 to unleash his Power
2 two to get out of for a mountain that trow him at
3 To attack everyone that in his vicinity in the last moment of the battle

class G vs class K, yes he can very much do it

Vegeta is unkown, and he huge huge huge uspcale from class K.

he "rested" for like, 1 hour tops, just to go fight for night to almost day immediatly after, and he stilk had chackra to spare

He din't even that much Chakra to you say that.

also i don't think vegeta spams very much in character does he

vegeta doesn't seem to spam much in character

There's no way you just said that.
Lucora Gun is one of his technique.


Honestly, vegeta can also Just Go up, fire a Galick Gun at Gaara, and Win this. He not even gonna destroy the earth to do It, he just need to charge long enough to One-Shot him. If Vegeta fly to the Air, Gaara Will not follow him, because he need to defend his people down bellow.

 

[SlendVeny]

Vegeta is unkown, and he huge huge huge uspcale from class K.

Not enough to be class G

Honestly, vegeta can also Just Go up, fire a Galick Gun at Gaara, and Win this.

gaara can block it easily

He not even gonna destroy the earth to do It, he just need to charge long enough to One-Shot him. If Vegeta fly to the Air, Gaara Will not follow him, because he need to defend his people down bellow.

1. Gaara has multiple kilometers of range
2. He would absolutely follow him.

 

[theultimate5105]

That's not what you said first, you Said he can fight for days, not hours with barelly rest between days, that's Very different.


You keep saying without barelly any proof, i not gonna exactly believe you. Same conditions as this fight would be Alone, constantly have to block attack stronger than himself, Dodge several meters of radiu Blast explosion, and a whole desert to him Control, and a opponent who can fly, did he fight someone in this conditions? Because if not, his Chakra gonna be spedding Very difference to compare.

You Said he can survive, as in take the attack, but still able to fight, not that he can Dodge, we already gone by that.

Can you provide a example? Because i don't remember that.

Ah

Again, considering the AP difference, Vegeta can take most hits than Gaara, and Gaara shields xan take the blunt of the attack Very well, so is much more likely that he is gonna be able to hit Gaara eventualy, him spamming don't matter.

You know, If he can cause a Planet level destruction with his strongest attack, causing a smaler one smaler level explosion in each can hit Gaara is literaly not a issue, since he also 10x times stronger here, sending his Ki Blast with a big área of effect is not a problem. You arguing that is not his Power, and is just a specifice technique don't make much sense. And also one of vegeta attacks:
The Moon shines down
If you want argue that he was doing this in Namek, Vegeta in Namek is weaker than Great ape vegeta. So literaly every attack he can do is stronger and get a radius Blast bigger. Unless you want to argue that Power level don't equal better destruction capabilities, in each case, you gonna have to prove that, since is treated that way, you have a big Power level, you can make a bigger explosion.



I pretty sure i posted Scan showing Goku saying that even with Kaioken times 5 vegeta would still be faster, is not unquantifiably.

That's why i Said he can gonna do a explosion big enough to hit Gaara too, so he can't stop spamming.
And destroying sand is still a thing.

Again? Super Explosive Wave
Is still the same technique.

What? The movent is Just him opening his arm, even If got caught, he can still do the explosion.

He does three times on the battle
1 to unleash his Power
2 two to get out of for a mountain that trow him at
3 To attack everyone that in his vicinity in the last moment of the battle


Vegeta is unkown, and he huge huge huge uspcale from class K.

He din't even that much Chakra to you say that.



There's no way you just said that.
Lucora Gun is one of his technique.


Honestly, vegeta can also Just Go up, fire a Galick Gun at Gaara, and Win this. He not even gonna destroy the earth to do It, he just need to charge long enough to One-Shot him. If Vegeta fly to the Air, Gaara Will not follow him, because he need to defend his people down bellow.

Vegeta is also way below class M

 

[Fezzih_007]

Vegeta is also way below class M

I would't say way below, but yeah he is.

 

[Omegabronic]

Easy vote for Vegeta. If it was Goku, I would have voted for Gaara.

For the vote to count you need to elaborate

 

[KingNanaya]

voting vegeta fra. I always thought dirty fireworks was a cool move

 

[denisnic55]

For the vote to count you need to elaborate

GA Vegeta has the AP advantage, the 1.6c was a lowball iirc and he has so many ways to outclass Gaara.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's not what you said first, you Said he can fight for days, not hours with barelly rest between days, that's Very different.

I could have worded better true

You keep saying without barelly any proof, i not gonna exactly believe you.

Just see the entirety of the madara vs kage fight

Same conditions as this fight would be Alone

Explain?

constantly have to block attack stronger than himself, Dodge several meters of radiu Blast explosion, and a whole desert to him Control

Vegeta is not a spam guy, i don't even think that it is in character for him to fight the way you are describing

and a opponent who can fly, did he fight someone in this conditions? Because if not, his Chakra gonna be spedding Very difference to compare.

Huh, dude, that is all exactlt what momoshiki is, also gaara can fight for hours with little rest for several days, he can casually move kilometers of sand as shown in the deidara fight, he will not lose the stamina battle

You Said he can survive, as in take the attack, but still able to fight, not that he can Dodge, we already gone by that.

the substitution jutsu makes him survive the attack, that is what i said

Can you provide a example? Because i don't remember

https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/Narutot_54_05.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/Narutot_54_06.jpg

Again, considering the AP difference, Vegeta can take most hits than Gaara, and Gaara shields xan take the blunt of the attack Very well, so is much more likely that he is gonna be able to hit Gaara eventualy, him spamming don't matter.

Yes it does when he have kilometers of sand coming from every direction after him, also considering thst his flight speed is far below gaara, i don't think that he will have an easy time getting there, vegeta has only ftl combat speed, his flight is severely slower due to recent revisions

You know, If he can cause a Planet level destruction with his strongest attack, causing a smaler one smaler level explosion in each can hit Gaara is literaly not a issue, since he also 10x times stronger here, sending his Ki Blast with a big área of effect is not a problem. You arguing that is not his Power, and is just a specifice technique don't make much sense

see, now you are using the right argument, just gonna say, this way of fighting that you are deacribing is not in character for vegeta, he has never done any bigger than several meters explosions with his ki during the sayan saga

. And also one of vegeta attacks:
The Moon shines down
If you want argue that he was doing this in Namek, Vegeta in Namek is weaker than Great ape vegeta.

Different arcs and different in character fighting styles, we are discussing sayan saga vegeta and not namek saga vegeta, use examples from the saga that it is being used

So literaly every attack he can do is stronger and get a radius Blast bigger. Unless you want to argue that Power level don't equal better destruction capabilities, in each case, you gonna have to prove that, since is treated that way, you have a big Power level, you can make a bigger explosion.

Well, you are the one with the positive claim, but oh well that is not my point

I pretty sure i posted Scan showing Goku saying that even with Kaioken times 5 vegeta would still be faster, is not unquantifiably.

am i showed scans showing how that doesn't matter considering how incredibely weakened goku was

That's why i Said he can gonna do a explosion big enough to hit Gaara too, so he can't stop spamming.

Is it in character for him to such big explosions? Also the sand is going to intercept him faster before he can even shot an attack and will keeping ragdolling him with superior LS

And destroying sand is still a thing.

Which i alrwady covered, there is sand coming from every where and it can reform instantly, this is not useful to vegera at all

Again? Super Explosive Wave
Is still the same technique.

dude why are you posting a fan wiki as a source? Show me images of guides or the show or something

What? The movent is Just him opening his arm, even If got caught, he can still do the explosion.

no he can't, if he needs to open his arms gaara's sand will make him immobilized and unable to move, you said that he needed to open his arms to liberate the explosion remember?

He does three times on the battle
1 to unleash his Power
2 two to get out of for a mountain that trow him at
3 To attack everyone that in his vicinity in the last moment of the battle

All of those were situations where he could move and where far smaller explosions then the auposedly kilometer range you are saying that is in character for him to do so

Vegeta is unkown, and he huge huge huge uspcale from class K.

Yeah so he is class K above, not enough nor relevant

He din't even that much Chakra to you say that.

Oh he did, he just fought madara while constantly using his sand to block and protect his alies while also trying to help, the end of the fight they are all basically dead, near at least

There's no way you just said that.
Lucora Gun is one of his technique.

I never said that, in his fight with goku he didn't used it until the final moments of the battle

Honestly, vegeta can also Just Go up, fire a Galick Gun at Gaara, and Win this. He not even gonna destroy the earth to do It, he just need to charge long enough to One-Shot him.

Gaara is far faster than vegeta's flight speed, so no, just so you know, he is gar bellow supersonic due to scaling bellow his frieza saga self due to recent revisions, he will not be able to do this at all

If Vegeta fly to the Air, Gaara Will not follow him, because he need to defend his people down bellow.

His sand would easily enough, in fact you keep ignoring how gaara would not let vegeta fly away at all with his LS advantage, also vegeta is stronger here and only did that against goku when he was overwelmed, why would he do that here when the oponent is weaker than him?

 

[Omegabronic]

voting vegeta fra. I always thought dirty fireworks was a cool move

It is out of range for it to work, also i covered both chars wincons here, tou should give it a read

Gaara wincons:
+absurd stamina advantage
+due to starting distance and vegeta already proven to be a major threat to his village as specified by the op would start taking the fight seriosly and try to stop vegeta quikcly with his sand lifting strength advantage, which would allow him to end vegeta in numerous ways
+substitution jutsu to scape from vegeta's blows even if he did hit him
+can overun vegeta with numerous massive sand tsunamis that can be several kilometers long
+up with point above since they are in the desert he would have almost unlimited suply of ammo to trow at vegeta, with the sand being able to constantly reform even if vegeta disipates it with him being able to trow massive ammounts of kilometers of sand rather easily
+can also seal vegeta if needed
+can also just make numerous sand clones to just do everything listed above now with massive quantity

Vegeta wincons:
+hitting gaara once
+5x ap advantage over the sand with oozaru, just to note that the ap advantage is not big enough for him to be able to effortlesly destroy gaara's sand
+can potentially use Dirty Fireworks to kill gaara if he manages to get close enough, altho it is to note that he usually doesn't use this attack on people stronger or close to his level, which gaara is here and that would have been picked up by the scouter the moment gaara uses his chackra to control the 5-B sand

 

[Omegabronic]

GA Vegeta has the AP advantage, the 1.6c was a lowball iirc and he has so many ways to outclass Gaara.

Btw, i covered most of those points here, give it a read please, just to make sure you know of gaara's wincons

Gaara wincons:
+absurd stamina advantage
+due to starting distance and vegeta already proven to be a major threat to his village as specified by the op would start taking the fight seriosly and try to stop vegeta quikcly with his sand lifting strength advantage, which would allow him to end vegeta in numerous ways
+substitution jutsu to scape from vegeta's blows even if he did hit him
+can overun vegeta with numerous massive sand tsunamis that can be several kilometers long
+up with point above since they are in the desert he would have almost unlimited suply of ammo to trow at vegeta, with the sand being able to constantly reform even if vegeta disipates it with him being able to trow massive ammounts of kilometers of sand rather easily
+can also seal vegeta if needed
+can also just make numerous sand clones to just do everything listed above now with massive quantity

Vegeta wincons:
+hitting gaara once
+5x ap advantage over the sand with oozaru, just to note that the ap advantage is not big enough for him to be able to effortlesly destroy gaara's sand
+can potentially use Dirty Fireworks to kill gaara if he manages to get close enough, altho it is to note that he usually doesn't use this attack on people stronger or close to his level, which gaara is here and that would have been picked up by the scouter the moment gaara uses his chackra to control the 5-B sand

 

[KingNanaya]

It is out of range for it to work

do we know what the range on DF is? because it seems to be mid to long range to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[denisnic55]

Btw, i covered most of those points here, give it a read please, just to make sure you know of gaara's wincons

Thanks, didn't see it but after I read it I came to this:
Gaara:
1. does stamina really matter if you get one shot?
2.fair point
3.AOE damage
4.arguably because we don't know how fast vegeta is to be precise but on paper gaara is faster
5.fair point
6. I don't remember exactly how Madara broke the seal with Susanoo but I guess it was AP advantage so the 5x ap advantage for Vegeta should work too.
7. AOE damage

Vegeta:

• blowing the planet
• much more experience as a fighter
• gaara has 8-b durability

Now I think it could go either way but I'm still leaning towards Vegeta

 

[Myguy]

5 pages bruh

Anyway, rewached some of the gaara fights and from what i see, against flying opponents he usually sits in one place in the air and then uses his sand to defeat his opp

Important thing to note is that in boruto, gaara doesnt seem to use as much sand as his shippuden counterpart

In shippuden gaara summoned a huge ass wave of sand in the literal first seconds of the fight against deidara, while in boruto he did not do the same thing against both urashiki and momoshiki, which should help vegeta out here

Another thing i have to point out is, for some reason gaara's perfect defense can fail in boruto?



As we can see, the sand did not protect gaara from momoshiki's attack, which is weird because the sand should be acting on its own

 

[Omegabronic]

do we know what the range on DF is? because it seems to be mid to long range to me, but I could be wrong.

It has only ever shown to work on several meters at most, the starting distance is of 500 meters here, do we have proof of DF having such range? Also vegeta doesn't use that on strong people that are near or on his level, which gaara falls into here

Thanks, didn't see it

ok, qas afraid of being annoying, thank you for considering it

but after I read it I came to this:
Gaara:
1. does stamina really matter if you get one shot?

gaara has the speed and battlefield advantage and jutsu to avoid getting hit at all, plus the starting distance is of 500 meters, with gaara being able to move kilometers of sand to vegeta

3.AOE damage

Yeah fair point, but since gaara is faster here, couldn't he just out run the explosion?

6. I don't remember exactly how Madara broke the seal with Susanoo but I guess it was AP advantage so the 5x ap advantage for Vegeta should work too.

well here is the thing, i was informed that vegeta needs to move to do the explosive wave, if so he wouldn't be able to escape

Vegeta:

• blowing the planet

If he does that he dies to, making this an incon if so

• much more experience as a fighter

Gaara is a strategist who fought in wars and was the general of the 4th ninja war making up strategies to fight genius of combat like madara and the 4 revived kage, vegeta doesn't seem to have much of an advantage tbh

Now I think it could go either way but I'm still leaning towards Vegeta

So instead of a full vote you are just leaning towards one? Just to clarify

 

[Omegabronic]

Important thing to note is that in boruto, gaara doesnt seem to use as much sand as his shippuden counterpart

Well in this case he would since vegeta blew up his village and is clearly a threat to it, gaara did that to deidara for much less

In shippuden gaara summoned a huge ass wave of sand in the literal first seconds of the fight against deidara, while in boruto he did not do the same thing against both urashiki and momoshiki, which should help vegeta out here

Well he had other people near him and both of them could easily escape the sand, heck when momo fused with kinshiki he was able to liberate explosion without even moving and could absorb his chackra

Another thing i have to point out is, for some reason gaara's perfect defense can fail in boruto?



As we can see, the sand did not protect gaara from momoshiki's attack, which is weird because the sand should be acting on its own

Momoshiki outspeed the sand in thar instance
Wait if gaara survived a blow from fused momo shouldn't he be 5-B in durability?

 

[Huesito88]

Well in this case he would since vegeta blew up his village and is clearly a threat to it, gaara did that to deidara for much less


Well he had other people near him and both of them could easily escape the sand, heck when momo fused with kinshiki he was able to liberate explosion without even moving and could absorb his chackra


Momoshiki outspeed the sand in thar instance
Wait if gaara survived a blow from fused momo shouldn't he be 5-B in durability?

They're having a thread on Gaara's durability right now

 

[Omegabronic]

They're having a thread on Gaara's durability right now

Well theb, if that passes this thread is affect in extreme, oh well we shall see

 

[denisnic55]

It has only ever shown to work on several meters at most, the starting distance is of 500 meters here, do we have proof of DF having such range? Also vegeta doesn't use that on strong people that are near or on his level, which gaara falls into here


ok, qas afraid of being annoying, thank you for considering it


gaara has the speed and battlefield advantage and jutsu to avoid getting hit at all, plus the starting distance is of 500 meters, with gaara being able to move kilometers of sand to vegeta

Yeah fair point, but since gaara is faster here, couldn't he just out run the explosion?


well here is the thing, i was informed that vegeta needs to move to do the explosive wave, if so he wouldn't be able to escape


If he does that he dies to, making this an incon if so


Gaara is a strategist who fought in wars and was the general of the 4th ninja war making up strategies to fight genius of combat like madara and the 4 revived kage, vegeta doesn't seem to have much of an advantage tbh


So instead of a full vote you are just leaning towards one? Just to clarify

Voting for Vegeta, if the CRT for the 5-b dura is accepted, then I'm with Gaara. To be honest, even an incon sounds plausible because Vegeta is used to blowing shit up unlike Gaara

 

[Myguy]

Well in this case he would since vegeta blew up his village and is clearly a threat to it, gaara did that to deidara for much less

Urashiki was a threat ro literally everyone in the world tho, he still didnt use it

Well he had other people near him and both of them could easily escape the sand, heck when momo fused with kinshiki he was able to liberate explosion without even moving and could absorb his chackra

I still dont see how it would hurt to use more sand,especially after momoshiki fused, as soon momoshiki got decently close to gaara the later fot his ass kicked, which would not have happened if he just made a "sand ball" around him

Just like how he did against deidara

Momoshiki outspeed the sand in thar instance
Wait if gaara survived a blow from fused momo shouldn't he be 5-B in durability?

No dude, the sand just dissipatated

Momoshiki got a hold of him, and then sand just called it quits, didnt even bother being near him in the moment of the attack lol

Like for some reason they forgot what made gaara's perfect defense perfect

Now to your second question, i guess it was seen as an outlier?Im assuming that they saw gaara getting hit by that kick before and for soem reason said that it was inconsistent

 

[KingNanaya]

do we have proof of DF having such range?

I mean, it goes full screen in xenoverse 2, so...

Also vegeta doesn't use that on strong people that are near or on his level, which gaara falls into here

well, didn't he use it on Zarbon, who was fairly close in terms of power? I remember them going blow for blow. it was insane.

 

[Omegabronic]

I mean, it goes full screen in xenoverse 2, so...

well, didn't he use it on Zarbon, who was fairly close in terms of power? I remember them going blow for blow. it was insane.

Nah, he was far bellow vegeta at that point

Urashiki was a threat ro literally everyone in the world tho, he still didnt use it

Well he did used the sand alongside chojuro, he also didn't had acess to that much sand during that time

I still dont see how it would hurt to use more sand

he didn't had much sand to use

,especially after momoshiki fused, as soon momoshiki got decently close to gaara the later fot his ass kicked, which would not have happened if he just made a "sand ball" around him

Well, he didn't have enough to do so, and he was not giving him time to make more either soo

Just like how he did against deidara

with deidara he had a whole ass desert, not a really good comparison

No dude, the sand just dissipatated

Momoshiki got a hold of him, and then sand just called it quits, didnt even bother being near him in the moment of the attack lol

Momo absorba chackra, no chackra no sand movement

Now to your second question, i guess it was seen as an outlier?Im assuming that they saw gaara getting hit by that kick before and for soem reason said that it was inconsistent

There is a thread on it apparently, we shall wait and leave that for now

 

[ssgengar]

Voting for gaara. The speed and strength of his sand is incredibly useful on both offense and defense. He has the speed and a shit load of different things he can try, I’m going w him

 

[Fezzih_007]

am i showed scans showing how that doesn't matter considering how incredibely weakened goku was

Goku have time to recover, since Vegeta take a while have to go looking for the moon.
Why resist the emptiness?
I was ignoring the argument to see how Godofice would debunked tou, but since he din't here we are.

Edit: I send the wrong links fixed now

 

[Omegabronic]

Goku have time to recover, since Vegeta take a while have to go looking for the moon.

Vegeta took like, 2 minutes max, goku's was in such state tha yajirobe of all people made him scream in pain, also king kai said that his body was at its limit and that even base vegeta would have been too much and could probably win

Why resist the emptiness?

Second one doesn't work, dunno what the first one is suposed to prove

I was ignoring the argument to see how Godofice would debunked tou, but since he din't here we are.

What argument are you refering to?


Oh well i shall request this tonbe added as incon since both sides have similar ammount of votes and grace period ended a few hours ago, oh shit i guess

 

[Fezzih_007]

Oh well i shall request this tonbe added as incon since both sides have similar ammount of votes and grace period ended a few hours ago, oh shit i guess

Well that's Fine, Vegeta is asshole in this tier so i don't want him to Win anyway.

Second one doesn't work, dunno what the first one is suposed to prove

I edited, could please look again? Vegeta took a while looking for the moon.

 

[Myguy]

Well he did used the sand alongside chojuro, he also didn't had acess to that much sand during that time
he didn't had much sand to use
Well, he didn't have enough to do so, and he was not giving him time to make more either soo
with deidara he had a whole ass desert, not a really good comparison

Ye,forgot thatbthe momoshiko dimension is nothing but rocks

However, against urashiki he was in the desert too you know

Momo absorba chackra, no chackra no sand movement

That is not how his absortion works, he needs to use his hands to absorb chakra, not his hair

And even then, the sand should have protected gaara from his hair too, and u cant even argue that this happened because of a speed gap because gaara reacted to momoshiki's movements and manually controlled the sand to block momoshiki's punch

 

[Omegabronic]

Well that's Fine, Vegeta is asshole in this tier so i don't want him to Win anyway.

Finally we agreed to something lol

I edited, could please look again? Vegeta took a while looking for the moon.

A little yes, but not near enough for goku to rest, again, that is like, 2 min tops

Ye,forgot thatbthe momoshiko dimension is nothing but rocks

However, against urashiki he was in the desert too you know

Which fight with urashiki are you refering to?

That is not how his absortion works, he needs to use his hands to absorb chakra, not his hair

And guess what touched the sand moments prio to the hair?

And even then, the sand should have protected gaara from his hair too, and u cant even argue that this happened because of a speed gap because gaara reacted to momoshiki's movements and manually controlled the sand to block momoshiki's punch

At worst that is one inconsistency of the momoshiki fight

 

[Fezzih_007]

A little yes, but not near enough for goku to rest, again, that is like, 2 min tops

Where exactly you are from that the sky Go from blue to Orange in 2 minutes? Vegeta as fighting Goku at day, and is afternoon after he give up finding the moon.

Finally we agreed to something lol

I mean,i eventualy think about It, and agreed with the LS too

 

[Omegabronic]

Where exactly you are from that the sky Go from blue to Orange in 2 minutes? Vegeta as fighting Goku at day, and is afternoon after he give up finding the moon.

you know that the color version is not in the original manga right? we generally do not consider color version to hold much water in comparison to the original release, also the dialogue is direct and non stop during the scene, there is no way more then a few short minutes have passed

I mean,i eventualy think about It, and agreed with the LS too

okay, well already requested for this to be added so, no use discussing it now i guess

 

[Fezzih_007]

you know that the color version is not in the original manga right? we generally do not consider color version to hold much water in comparison to the original release

That's kinda weird, i think colored manga could be used if don't have a contradiction and could clarify certain things, but we don't use at ALL? I mean ok.

also the dialogue is direct and non stop during the scene, there is no way more then a few short minutes have passed

I have a debunked to this, but i don't How to translate into english, so i leave It.