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IM CLOSING THIS THREAD
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Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) VS Gaara (New Era) (14-11-0) (GRACE)
- Thread starter Padaruyos
- Start date
- Status
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Yeah, he can fight for hours while having barely any rest between days
Substitution jutsu
He can actually, sakura showed that in her fight against the sound ninja
gaara is faster than vegeta, so if he spams he is going to hit more and get in the way of vegeta spaming, also i don't think vegeta spams very much in character does he?
For the kiblasts themselves, not his explosions from it, well outside of the galick gun, but if he does that he would be screwed too soooo
It is unquantifiably faster while gaara hugely upscales from the value as well
Just for them all to reform almost instantly and then come for him again, or he just makes more sand after him, or both
Proof?
not if he needs to move to do the thing
eveb if cegeta can do that, he doesn't seem to do it in character from what we saw of his fight in the sayan saga
class G vs class K, yes he can very much do it
people far stronger and spam guys, yeah pretty much yeah
he "rested" for like, 1 hour tops, just to go fight for night to almost day immediatly after, and he stilk had chackra to spare
vegeta doesn't seem to spam much in character, gaara would have kilometers of sand on him first before he realizes that he needs to do that, and then just keep him stuck in with massive LS advantage
Then it is really irrelevant since they are 500 meters apart, dunno how relevant the votes based on that are anymore tbh
Nah, he is juat unquantifiably faster, it is a pretty comon thing around here honestly
We can't quantify, he wad injured sure, but not by a really great ammount like goku was
the "that much weaker" part is not a thing at all, he is just confused for why would he low his power at all during that time, nothing indicates the ammount
Not according to vegeta and his reactions to it
You are wrong, very much wrong, and he wad not really bleeding much tbh, only through his mouth ocasionaly, but goku was also and even far worst than that
Yeah, they receiving damage is obvious, but that doesn't affect my point, i did comment on vegeta's damage, he is just far, far better than goku in that situation
After he detransformed
Not really, he said that he power droped and never gives any hint to the ammount
And also the big banter explanation and threat that vegeta did before that, you are forgeting this detail, but anyway, goku comenting on it doesn't prove that the debuff was big like you are implying
which also confused him even more, since the thing was really weak, so why would vegeta do that? That was his doubt
what are you refering to?
yeah, a kaioken x5 in his current situation, since that is the entire thing he is talking about during that whole scene
i am confused, did you agreed with me? My argument is that the quote is just the vague power statement and that it doesn't really refer to Power level, but even then we don't scale PL like that at all in the series
Penetrate? Yes, destroy completely leaving no trace? No
He never really fights much tbh, he mostly does that when he is in corner, it is not super in character, but he would use eventually or if he needed to survive
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The we shall add as incon in both pages
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DF here is flat out not a wincon unless you assume Vegeta has powers that aren't on his profile, and/or Amaterasu is a projectile which contradicts Sasuke's profile.
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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I'm Fine with inco yeah.
Wee Just need to wait a few more hours.
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How much more?
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We have to take stamina and other factors into consideration when dealing with determining how much weaker someone is compared to someone due to damage they took it just can't be quanitifed
What? He said his power dropped when he made the artificial moon what you said was just head canon
Not even Vegeta was sure as he said "may"
Again we can't quantify how much weaker but yeah both were injured
I dont know what banter you're referring to
What weak attack? Goku never said he was confused on why vegeta powered up a weak attack in exchange for his power dropping Vegeta's power dropped and Goku was wondering what was he planning stop with this headcanon
Bojack and Oozaru crt
It could be referring to in general or peak but I think it was accepted that it was referring to his peak
I'm asking are you saying that we can't use this for speed because it doesn't mention PL and would it mentioning PL or BP stop this discussion on the speed amp because ki is merely a device is used to detect a person's ki so BP is dependent on your ki also SSJ is accepted due to this and the fact that it's shown having a speed amp which is similar to this situation
Probably to a similar degree of Sasuke's chidori but dependent on the range that his attack covers so the larger the aoe the more effective
Well he fights in boruto and in the great ninja war and I don't think he used it ever in those situations
Nah it's 10-8-0 Vegeta would get the W
? What DF isn't contradictory on his profile and a scan was sent earlier that it was accurate to what the profile says n
Vegeta has more votes though
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He doesn't need to blitz, and seeing him outspeed would lead Vegeta to realize he was a strong opponent.
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yeah, i did that, goku is far worst than vegeta in this regard as well, since he is constantly using a technique that drains his stamina and ki, also contrary to vegeta goku's body was at its limits, so this point is really moot, in fact, after trying the genki dama once he got completely out of energy and couldn't even move his nose lol
so? when had i said that it didn't drop?
nope, what you said is since it has no real ground for it to be in the scene at all
don't ignore my earlier points that covered this, he was not once proven wrong in the scene, he is the one with the most knoledge in the thing, he has a pretty good validity when it comes to this, he was not even surprised after his power droped when he made the ball, which wouldn't make sense if he was wrong, again, do you have any good proof at all that vegeta was completely wrong in his own technique effect?
we can say for sure that goku was much, much worse, given all the evidence provided and the statements made
the whole "experience true terror as i unleash the true power of the sayans race and bla bla bla" that he does before even forming the moon ball thing
he also never said that he was because of a suposedly huge decrease in said power yet you are arguing it to no end
yeah, he gave a whole speech about sayan power and then said that he would unleash his true potential just to get weaker by a small ball of light that didn't look particularly powerful, no shit he was confused
it is not headcanon since i am giving up credibility with the context of the series, look at the definition dude
oh okay, but looking at the op i don't see anything related to speed in the op of that thread at all, seriosly the speed part upgrade was not accepted nor proposed
reading the thread this was not seen to be the case, also explain how could that possibly be refering to his peak condition when nothing of sorts is ever said at all?
i am saying that since he specifies power we can't really apply it to speed
ki is a device to detect ki? tf?
so? if by BP you mean PL, then that is wrong in how we scale things, very wrong
it is due to direct comparison to kaioken multipliers and even a weaker goku being stronger than freeza 100%, not because of BP shenanigans
it isn't and i am tired of having to keep repeating the same thing over and over
then my point stays completely the same
nah not really, if you want to compare to sasuke chidori then my point doesn't change at all
mostly because of no oportunity tbh
nope, read the rules again, the difference is not of 4 votes, therefore the match ends in an incon since they are so close in votes, a few hours to go
and to things that were not accepted or even proposed in the first place
the difference is not enough
denisnic55
He/Him- 84
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Easy vote for Vegeta. If it was Goku, I would have voted for Gaara.
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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That's not what you said first, you Said he can fight for days, not hours with barelly rest between days, that's Very different.
You keep saying without barelly any proof, i not gonna exactly believe you. Same conditions as this fight would be Alone, constantly have to block attack stronger than himself, Dodge several meters of radiu Blast explosion, and a whole desert to him Control, and a opponent who can fly, did he fight someone in this conditions? Because if not, his Chakra gonna be spedding Very difference to compare.
You Said he can survive, as in take the attack, but still able to fight, not that he can Dodge, we already gone by that.
Can you provide a example? Because i don't remember that.
Ah
Again, considering the AP difference, Vegeta can take most hits than Gaara, and Gaara shields xan take the blunt of the attack Very well, so is much more likely that he is gonna be able to hit Gaara eventualy, him spamming don't matter.
You know, If he can cause a Planet level destruction with his strongest attack, causing a smaler one smaler level explosion in each can hit Gaara is literaly not a issue, since he also 10x times stronger here, sending his Ki Blast with a big área of effect is not a problem. You arguing that is not his Power, and is just a specifice technique don't make much sense. And also one of vegeta attacks:
The Moon shines down
If you want argue that he was doing this in Namek, Vegeta in Namek is weaker than Great ape vegeta. So literaly every attack he can do is stronger and get a radius Blast bigger. Unless you want to argue that Power level don't equal better destruction capabilities, in each case, you gonna have to prove that, since is treated that way, you have a big Power level, you can make a bigger explosion.
I pretty sure i posted Scan showing Goku saying that even with Kaioken times 5 vegeta would still be faster, is not unquantifiably.
That's why i Said he can gonna do a explosion big enough to hit Gaara too, so he can't stop spamming.
And destroying sand is still a thing.
Again? Super Explosive Wave
Is still the same technique.
What? The movent is Just him opening his arm, even If got caught, he can still do the explosion.
He does three times on the battle
1 to unleash his Power
2 two to get out of for a mountain that trow him at
3 To attack everyone that in his vicinity in the last moment of the battle
Vegeta is unkown, and he huge huge huge uspcale from class K.
He din't even that much Chakra to you say that.
There's no way you just said that.
Lucora Gun is one of his technique.
Honestly, vegeta can also Just Go up, fire a Galick Gun at Gaara, and Win this. He not even gonna destroy the earth to do It, he just need to charge long enough to One-Shot him. If Vegeta fly to the Air, Gaara Will not follow him, because he need to defend his people down bellow.
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Not enough to be class G
gaara can block it easily
1. Gaara has multiple kilometers of range
2. He would absolutely follow him.
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Vegeta is also way below class M
Fezzih_007
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I would't say way below, but yeah he is.
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For the vote to count you need to elaborate
KingNanaya
He/Him- 2,610
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voting vegeta fra. I always thought dirty fireworks was a cool move
denisnic55
He/Him- 84
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GA Vegeta has the AP advantage, the 1.6c was a lowball iirc and he has so many ways to outclass Gaara.
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I could have worded better true
Just see the entirety of the madara vs kage fight
Explain?
Vegeta is not a spam guy, i don't even think that it is in character for him to fight the way you are describing
Huh, dude, that is all exactlt what momoshiki is, also gaara can fight for hours with little rest for several days, he can casually move kilometers of sand as shown in the deidara fight, he will not lose the stamina battle
the substitution jutsu makes him survive the attack, that is what i said
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/Narutot_54_05.jpg
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/Narutot_54_06.jpg
Yes it does when he have kilometers of sand coming from every direction after him, also considering thst his flight speed is far below gaara, i don't think that he will have an easy time getting there, vegeta has only ftl combat speed, his flight is severely slower due to recent revisions
see, now you are using the right argument, just gonna say, this way of fighting that you are deacribing is not in character for vegeta, he has never done any bigger than several meters explosions with his ki during the sayan saga
Different arcs and different in character fighting styles, we are discussing sayan saga vegeta and not namek saga vegeta, use examples from the saga that it is being used
Well, you are the one with the positive claim, but oh well that is not my point
am i showed scans showing how that doesn't matter considering how incredibely weakened goku was
Is it in character for him to such big explosions? Also the sand is going to intercept him faster before he can even shot an attack and will keeping ragdolling him with superior LS
Which i alrwady covered, there is sand coming from every where and it can reform instantly, this is not useful to vegera at all
dude why are you posting a fan wiki as a source? Show me images of guides or the show or something
no he can't, if he needs to open his arms gaara's sand will make him immobilized and unable to move, you said that he needed to open his arms to liberate the explosion remember?
All of those were situations where he could move and where far smaller explosions then the auposedly kilometer range you are saying that is in character for him to do so
Yeah so he is class K above, not enough nor relevant
Oh he did, he just fought madara while constantly using his sand to block and protect his alies while also trying to help, the end of the fight they are all basically dead, near at least
I never said that, in his fight with goku he didn't used it until the final moments of the battle
Gaara is far faster than vegeta's flight speed, so no, just so you know, he is gar bellow supersonic due to scaling bellow his frieza saga self due to recent revisions, he will not be able to do this at all
His sand would easily enough, in fact you keep ignoring how gaara would not let vegeta fly away at all with his LS advantage, also vegeta is stronger here and only did that against goku when he was overwelmed, why would he do that here when the oponent is weaker than him?
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It is out of range for it to work, also i covered both chars wincons here, tou should give it a read
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Btw, i covered most of those points here, give it a read please, just to make sure you know of gaara's wincons
KingNanaya
He/Him- 2,610
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do we know what the range on DF is? because it seems to be mid to long range to me, but I could be wrong.
denisnic55
He/Him- 84
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Thanks, didn't see it but after I read it I came to this:
Gaara:
1. does stamina really matter if you get one shot?
2.fair point
3.AOE damage
4.arguably because we don't know how fast vegeta is to be precise but on paper gaara is faster
5.fair point
6. I don't remember exactly how Madara broke the seal with Susanoo but I guess it was AP advantage so the 5x ap advantage for Vegeta should work too.
7. AOE damage
Vegeta:
- blowing the planet
- much more experience as a fighter
- gaara has 8-b durability
Now I think it could go either way but I'm still leaning towards Vegeta
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5 pages bruh 
Anyway, rewached some of the gaara fights and from what i see, against flying opponents he usually sits in one place in the air and then uses his sand to defeat his opp
Important thing to note is that in boruto, gaara doesnt seem to use as much sand as his shippuden counterpart
In shippuden gaara summoned a huge ass wave of sand in the literal first seconds of the fight against deidara, while in boruto he did not do the same thing against both urashiki and momoshiki, which should help vegeta out here
Another thing i have to point out is, for some reason gaara's perfect defense can fail in boruto?
As we can see, the sand did not protect gaara from momoshiki's attack, which is weird because the sand should be acting on its own
Anyway, rewached some of the gaara fights and from what i see, against flying opponents he usually sits in one place in the air and then uses his sand to defeat his opp
Important thing to note is that in boruto, gaara doesnt seem to use as much sand as his shippuden counterpart
In shippuden gaara summoned a huge ass wave of sand in the literal first seconds of the fight against deidara, while in boruto he did not do the same thing against both urashiki and momoshiki, which should help vegeta out here
Another thing i have to point out is, for some reason gaara's perfect defense can fail in boruto?
As we can see, the sand did not protect gaara from momoshiki's attack, which is weird because the sand should be acting on its own
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It has only ever shown to work on several meters at most, the starting distance is of 500 meters here, do we have proof of DF having such range? Also vegeta doesn't use that on strong people that are near or on his level, which gaara falls into here
ok, qas afraid of being annoying, thank you for considering it
gaara has the speed and battlefield advantage and jutsu to avoid getting hit at all, plus the starting distance is of 500 meters, with gaara being able to move kilometers of sand to vegeta
Yeah fair point, but since gaara is faster here, couldn't he just out run the explosion?
well here is the thing, i was informed that vegeta needs to move to do the explosive wave, if so he wouldn't be able to escape
If he does that he dies to, making this an incon if so
Gaara is a strategist who fought in wars and was the general of the 4th ninja war making up strategies to fight genius of combat like madara and the 4 revived kage, vegeta doesn't seem to have much of an advantage tbh
So instead of a full vote you are just leaning towards one? Just to clarify
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Well in this case he would since vegeta blew up his village and is clearly a threat to it, gaara did that to deidara for much less
Well he had other people near him and both of them could easily escape the sand, heck when momo fused with kinshiki he was able to liberate explosion without even moving and could absorb his chackra
Momoshiki outspeed the sand in thar instance
Wait if gaara survived a blow from fused momo shouldn't he be 5-B in durability?
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Well theb, if that passes this thread is affect in extreme, oh well we shall see
denisnic55
He/Him- 84
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Voting for Vegeta, if the CRT for the 5-b dura is accepted, then I'm with Gaara. To be honest, even an incon sounds plausible because Vegeta is used to blowing shit up unlike Gaara
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Urashiki was a threat ro literally everyone in the world tho, he still didnt use it
I still dont see how it would hurt to use more sand,especially after momoshiki fused, as soon momoshiki got decently close to gaara the later fot his ass kicked, which would not have happened if he just made a "sand ball" around him
Just like how he did against deidara
No dude, the sand just dissipatated
Momoshiki got a hold of him, and then sand just called it quits, didnt even bother being near him in the moment of the attack lol
Like for some reason they forgot what made gaara's perfect defense perfect
Now to your second question, i guess it was seen as an outlier?Im assuming that they saw gaara getting hit by that kick before and for soem reason said that it was inconsistent
KingNanaya
He/Him- 2,610
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well, didn't he use it on Zarbon, who was fairly close in terms of power? I remember them going blow for blow. it was insane.
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Nah, he was far bellow vegeta at that point
Well he did used the sand alongside chojuro, he also didn't had acess to that much sand during that time
he didn't had much sand to use
Well, he didn't have enough to do so, and he was not giving him time to make more either soo
with deidara he had a whole ass desert, not a really good comparison
Momo absorba chackra, no chackra no sand movement
There is a thread on it apparently, we shall wait and leave that for now
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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Goku have time to recover, since Vegeta take a while have to go looking for the moon.
Why resist the emptiness?
I was ignoring the argument to see how Godofice would debunked tou, but since he din't here we are.
Edit: I send the wrong links
fixed now
Last edited:
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Vegeta took like, 2 minutes max, goku's was in such state tha yajirobe of all people made him scream in pain, also king kai said that his body was at its limit and that even base vegeta would have been too much and could probably win
Second one doesn't work, dunno what the first one is suposed to prove
What argument are you refering to?
Oh well i shall request this tonbe added as incon since both sides have similar ammount of votes and grace period ended a few hours ago, oh shit i guess
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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Well that's Fine, Vegeta is asshole in this tier so i don't want him to Win anyway.
I edited, could please look again? Vegeta took a while looking for the moon.
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Ye,forgot thatbthe momoshiko dimension is nothing but rocks
However, against urashiki he was in the desert too you know
That is not how his absortion works, he needs to use his hands to absorb chakra, not his hair
And even then, the sand should have protected gaara from his hair too, and u cant even argue that this happened because of a speed gap because gaara reacted to momoshiki's movements and manually controlled the sand to block momoshiki's punch
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Finally we agreed to something lol
A little yes, but not near enough for goku to rest, again, that is like, 2 min tops
Which fight with urashiki are you refering to?
And guess what touched the sand moments prio to the hair?
At worst that is one inconsistency of the momoshiki fight
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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Where exactly you are from that the sky Go from blue to Orange in 2 minutes? Vegeta as fighting Goku at day, and is afternoon after he give up finding the moon.
I mean,i eventualy think about It, and agreed with the LS too
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you know that the color version is not in the original manga right? we generally do not consider color version to hold much water in comparison to the original release, also the dialogue is direct and non stop during the scene, there is no way more then a few short minutes have passed
okay, well already requested for this to be added so, no use discussing it now i guess
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 6,054
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That's kinda weird, i think colored manga could be used if don't have a contradiction and could clarify certain things, but we don't use at ALL? I mean ok.
I have a debunked to this, but i don't How to translate into english, so i leave It.
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