Goku could still use Kaioken at that point which is why I’m saying stamina is a factor that needs to be considered Goku was still able to fight and use a technique that was injuring his body while injured
and in doing so he almost killed himself, and after a short exchange of him running away he immediatly fell down unable to move even his nose, his words, not mine
You implied it was a minuscule drop in power
it was a small drop in power yes, you said that i said that his power didn't drop at all
What I said literally happens in the scene Vegeta creates the artificial moon and Goku says that Vegetas power dropped and then he said what could he be planning? Goku never said “oh wow what a weak ki blast” like you argued before
you are saying as if he had said "his power droped that far, what could he be planning?" when all the situation was just him being confused about vegeta's speech, with the ball of energy he made being apparently weak, i never said that he said that, i said what was obviously apparent to him in that situation
He wasn’t proven wrong nor was he wrong I was just saying that he said “may” which means he doesn’t know how much power would drop
stop ignoring my point, he was not surprised about how much it droped after he did the ball, earlier he thought that he was only going to lose a "bit" the way he said that is more of an afirmation then a doubt like "i may lose my leg but i still have to go", the way the phrase is structured does not imply that massive leap you are proposing
and was saying that it would drop a bit so no I’m not saying he’s wrong
yes you are since you are saying it made him drop by a gigantic margin for him to be in the same boat as goku there
Goku also has a lot of stamina as I explained above but yeah both were injured as I’ve said and the statements talk about what Kaioken can do but yeah some of those effects did happen to Goku as his body was sore from it
his body was wrecked and at its limit, goku is far worst then vegeta, that much is a fact
Idk what Vegetas speech about the saiyans have to do with anything I forgot why that was discussed
because it was not only the ball that confused goku, it was the entire situation that did, so your point about why the drop in power would be big because of goku's reaction does not even work
He literally said what could he be planning those are his exact words in the scan you act like I’m pulling this out of no where this is exactly what Goku says in the scan
yeah and as i have explained that proves nothing on your point given the entirety of the situation
I don’t see what his speech proves but again Goku wonders what he’s planning not any of this ki blast head canon you’re coming up with
can you stop with the semantics? i stop calling it a ki attack a long time ago, i just said that this would be what he would logically think it was
No you’re not giving anything credible the scene gives enough context and my argument is using Goku’s exact words
while ignoring the context of the entire scene panels prior
It is in the op the Kaioken x5 thing where Goku not being able to keep up with Vegeta’s speed
speed is never mentioned at all
and mentioning that even with Kaioken x5 it wouldn’t change anything is used as justification
yes because it wouldn't, goku needed 10 seconds while also being extremely weakened and at his limit, he wouldn't even last enough for that to matter at all
plus this already falls under the note on db
no it does not, that note just says "if you gain more ki, you get faster and stronger" that's it
I have no idea what you’re arguing here
i have no idea what you are refering to
He gets a power and speed amp and the guides state that it’s a 10x multiplier
for power yes, that is the only thing ever said
I meant a scouter is a way to detect ki and a numerical value is given via the ki
okay then, so?
BP is dependent on your ki and that is how we scale things I have no idea what you’re on about
we don't scale BP linearly like that, we don't scale a 2x battle power number to be 2x greater in everything
SSJ is faster than Kaioken x20
yeah so?
and BP is also what a scouter detects from your ki
yeah, so?
He’s compared to KKx5 Goku’s peak
no he is not, he is compared to current situation goku hyptetical kaioken 5x
which is used as justification so yes it is a speed amp
stop with the strawman right now, when did i ever said that it wasn't a speed amp?
Sasuke made a hole but the surface of his attack was smaller
yeah, and the sand was still there to be reformed moments later, my point does not change in the slightiest
Why does your point not change if Vegeta is even stronger at this state he’ll do way worse than what Sasuke did to his ultimate defense especially with the AP gap and the range of his attack
unless you can prove that he can straight up vaporize gaara's sand then no my point does not change at all
Wdym “No opportunity” he consistently doesn’t use it in character
in all the fights he has been in he didn't had the opportunity to do it, because the guys he were fighting were either too fast or too far away for him to bother using it, address my point instead of repeating yourself
The rules state that the character with more votes gets the W iirc
no it doesn't at all, not unless the difference is of 3
they weren't
What does the difference have to be? Because this is the first time I’m hearing this and I’ve never seen this done I’m pretty sure Incon is when they have the same amount of votes
the difference must be of 3 votes, less than that is considered an equivalent number and as such incon
Bruh one character has more votes
read above
