EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,839
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@Pain_to12 i hope we talk about the OP instead of some thread which doesn't even have connection to this.
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No wheres exacly i interpret here??? I just follow everything that write in the novel. Is you and the other guys whose disagree that interpret in here. Metaphor??? So explain nousgalia's case, his situation not even make him need to tell metaphor but he keep saying about the theater things, and arnos him self clarify about the theater. Its very clear means the author want make in his fiction, the world just a theater that follow the script@Fixxed Yes you are interpreting things here, especially when you don't prove your case with evidence to suggest the plot is being warped in a literal sense here. Never said to be just a theatre, literally everything about the theatre description is so metaphorical with no elaboration on it being literal that plot hax ain't happening here. Also that's not how plot hax works here, for an ability as specific as that you'd need actual showings of plot hax happening as it can be interpreted in many other ways.
You can pretend like this is as clear cut as you want to my friend but people disagree.
"" All according to Script of the world "
To back it up why script is plot in MGF we have statement from
- Dilfred Wisest god refers to Order as a play and mortal world as a theater
- Anos who learned the truth later refers the same thing after many chapters which he doesn't have to do if author really didn't cared about plot manipulation here
- HFG made the same type of statement before any of these statements comes so which even backs up the fact order being the plot.
When the world borns there will be an order which is not fate don't start with headcanon. Order is set and has only one path where fate is not set and will have different possibilities to choose from. Here its clearly mentioned seed of the will leads the world in one direction which order already set.
"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will.
But here we can literally see that even though there is an order there are infinite possibilities of the future exist. No one can rewrite that order even though you can manipulate fate. So this literally backs up order being the plot which can't be interacted or changed but future can be changed by possibilities
"God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The many futures that Nafta, the god of the future, sees are structured by that order. No matter how much power he may have, the ordered God cannot overturn the ordered future."
But here we can see EQUES easily rewrote order just like how you can change the plot . Which even backs up our POV for Order being plot. He literally states he is the one who rules the order and completely rewrites the order of the world
"Do you think you have the upper hand? Thy power is swayed and swayed by thy surroundings. It means that you are ruled by order. And it is I who rule that order."
The magic power gathers in Eques' entire body.
"You take from this three-sided world, the Garden of the Demon King, the order that gives you your power."
The gears of the assembled gods fill the air with a copper-colored radiance.
"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."
The Wheel of Destiny scatters a brown light.
"Defeat."
The copper gear is embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.
In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests, in mountains, everywhere, the wheels of destiny began to turn.
"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the Destiny that Vertex Fenbrem has just decreed, a Destiny that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."
An foreign order envelops me.
That's not all he was constantly Manipulated order from the beginning of the time
"Kuhaha. You are a dullard. Your gears have the power to turn Destiny. Mainly of despair. It has allowed God to rule, order to be manipulated, and war to ravage the earth. But if you can interfere with despair, you can be interfered with by despair. If you convert it into a quill, it will be powered by despair to rotate. The stronger the despair, the more it will be able to turn the wheel of hope against it."
"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."
My final Verdict. Order is plot. Fate is specifically different from order throughout the series.
If Anyone who claims order = Fate send the scans because it's you who is claiming that headcanon.
Anyway I don't want to see another one of you claiming fate = order without scans.
Again next time if you derail this because of your hate for Anos supporters like you said earlier I am gonna report you. Stop derailing. If you don't have anything to contribute here don't even try to reply back.You can pretend like this is as clear cut as you want to my friend but people disagree.
@Dog3352 which you guys have failed to give any solid evidence that this is actual plot hax and not just more fate hax for order, so saying "once it's accepted" means jack shit here since I can easily say "once this is rejected no one's going to agree with this idea". So actually argue about the now, instead of what might happen.
there is a problem with that because Order (order of order) controls everyother order (which fate is a part of it but not the only thing) so you can't say it's a higher form of fate manip because fate is only part of the orders under the order of order. and the statements in the op back it up a little.
You can change fate with plot but you can't change plot with fate. And there is already fate in the orders that order of order controls but it's just a small part of it and the character not mentioning fate like he always does and talking about "script/plot" and the theater thing getting stated not just by one person backs this up even more.As i told you if you use that logic with the statements in this thread it is more likely to be plot.
"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will."
Yes I know the plot/Script can mean a lot of things but in this context they mean the "plot" it self. (eques being the will of the world and the order of order controlling/leading every order including fate)
Dang it, he refuse to disprove him wrong.If you're talking about they literally, like literally said the statement "Order=Fate" there isn't, and i meant different by "he's using your own scans against". But imma leave this thread looking how the verse supporters act good luck on getting an admin give input to this.This thread is really toxic especially how you guys act after people just disagreed with you.Anyways goodluck hope it gets accepted for you guys and i'm unfollowing this.
1. So you saying order=plan which is complete nonsense.Did you bother clicking on the link I sent where the kanji for plot also has "plan and scheme" in it? Because that's my proof that there's multiple meanings, which again goes back to my point. Prove that they literally mean the script/narrative being controlled. Prove to me that the order is treated like an actual storyboard the gods can rewrite on a whim, prove that they can control a literal theater that has some control over the entire world. If you cannot give these blatant examples to prove your point and just keep speculating then this isn't going to be accepted, simple as that.
Also, the Author always separates Order and Fate terms in his novel. So whatever he wants to mention fate manipulation or tended to mean it, he always mentions “fate” for that.The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods, keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them ~ Order definition in our verse. Please read cosmology if you want to know more about it.
You know this is BS. You are too far gone I guess, you know for an absolute fact that @EldemadeDityjon has worked his ass off on every upgrade no matter big or small. So you saying anyone only wants it because of Drac is defamation. Drac may have been motivation but not the reason behind it, plot manip has been talked about in general discussion thread for a long time. Ofc supporters would have a bias to their verse, if not they wouldn’t be supporters no?It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.
Crazy how you can't give an actual refute now only thing you can call others biased and shut their mouth down. Is this how the wiki works ? Is this how any staffs behaves ? So normal uses can't say anything? Also the link you linked i still don't see how that's biased.@EldemadeDityjon that's not how it works here. I'm not proving the negative here, you need to prove the positive, which you failed to do so. It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.
And you still refuse to give me examples, give me examples on plot hax happening instead of throwing accusations at me and I might take your argument seriously. If none of you give me any solid evidence that there's actual plot hax happening I will close this thread as nothing news' being brought in. What headcanon? You're doing a shit job of arguing your point here, so actually give me examples instead of quoting random shit that has nothing to do with plot hax?
Sure sure it's not appealing to ignorance.
"" All according to Script of the world "
To back it up why script is plot in MGF we have statement from
- Dilfred Wisest god refers to Order as a play and mortal world as a theater
- Anos who learned the truth later refers the same thing after many chapters which he doesn't have to do if author really didn't cared about plot manipulation here
- HFG made the same type of statement before any of these statements comes so which even backs up the fact order being the plot.
When the world borns there will be an order which is not fate don't start with headcanon. Order is set and has only one path where fate is not set and will have different possibilities to choose from. Here its clearly mentioned seed of the will leads the world in one direction which order already set.
"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will.
But here we can literally see that even though there is an order there are infinite possibilities of the future exist. No one can rewrite that order even though you can manipulate fate. So this literally backs up order being the plot which can't be interacted or changed but future can be changed by possibilities
"God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The many futures that Nafta, the god of the future, sees are structured by that order. No matter how much power he may have, the ordered God cannot overturn the ordered future."
But here we can see EQUES easily rewrote order just like how you can change the plot . Which even backs up our POV for Order being plot. He literally states he is the one who rules the order and completely rewrites the order of the world
"Do you think you have the upper hand? Thy power is swayed and swayed by thy surroundings. It means that you are ruled by order. And it is I who rule that order."
The magic power gathers in Eques' entire body.
"You take from this three-sided world, the Garden of the Demon King, the order that gives you your power."
The gears of the assembled gods fill the air with a copper-colored radiance.
"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."
The Wheel of Destiny scatters a brown light.
"Defeat."
The copper gear is embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.
In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests, in mountains, everywhere, the wheels of destiny began to turn.
"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the Destiny that Vertex Fenbrem has just decreed, a Destiny that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."
An foreign order envelops me.
That's not all he was constantly Manipulated order from the beginning of the time
"Kuhaha. You are a dullard. Your gears have the power to turn Destiny. Mainly of despair. It has allowed God to rule, order to be manipulated, and war to ravage the earth. But if you can interfere with despair, you can be interfered with by despair. If you convert it into a quill, it will be powered by despair to rotate. The stronger the despair, the more it will be able to turn the wheel of hope against it."
"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."
My final Verdict. Order is plot. Fate is specifically different from order throughout the series.
If Anyone who claims order = Fate send the scans because it's you who is claiming that headcanon.
Anyway I don't want to see another one of you claiming fate = order without scans.
My bad, I made a mistake@Pain_to12 I'm not Firestorm dude
GIVE ME ONE SCAN THAT SAYS ITS THE SAME AS FATE THEN, ignore every quote that @EldemadeDityjon has made, call everyone biased that agrees, don’t give any reason that makes sense if you speak English.no, I just like to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Also you literally have not proven it's stated numerous times order and fate aren't the same thing. None of your scans imply that in the slightest. Give an actual text where it says verbatim that order and fate aren't the a
Staff saying peoples reasons are shit, how they explain stuff is shit, on more than one different comments, THEN THREATENING TO REPORT PEOPLE. You sir are a joke and should be treated as a joke. Your words at this point mean a little more than nothing at this point in my opinion and my respect for you is nonexistent. Have a good day.@EldemadeDityjon that's not how it works here. I'm not proving the negative here, you need to prove the positive, which you failed to do so. It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.
And so far you have 3 staff input, 4 if you include Oblivion being a former staff, and more staff disagrees than agrees, hell none of them agree and are at best neutral to the topic.
And you still refuse to give me examples, give me examples on plot hax happening instead of throwing accusations at me and I might take your argument seriously. If none of you give me any solid evidence that there's actual plot hax happening I will close this thread as nothing news' being brought in. What headcanon? You're doing a shit job of arguing your point here, so actually give me examples instead of quoting random shit that has nothing to do with plot hax?
@WarbleComeBack no, I just like to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Also you literally have not proven it's stated numerous times order and fate aren't the same thing. None of your scans imply that in the slightest. Give an actual text where it says verbatim that order and fate aren't the a
@Dog3352 For a guy who keeps claiming you know more than I do, you sure do a shit job explaining your points. If I apparently know so little, how about you give me proof about the plot hax being legit instead of dodging my question? Because so far none of you guys have addressed my first point. Also I'm not using my own beliefs, I'm using what's the rules on the wiki for what constitutes as plot hax, and as of the requirements for plot hax, this ain't flying one bit. So actually address my point.
@Pain_to12 I'm not Firestorm dude.
@Fixxed no it very does not make it clear that's what he's referring to, especially when he does not elaborate on what he means by the script and theatres, so argument they have plot hax relies on so much headcanon here.
Also just a general reminder, you guys have 2 staff members (3 if you include Oblivion since he was former staff) disagree with this thread, alongside many other folks who actually make a point beyond just saying "I disagree" so I'm giving every supporter here one last chance. Give us the legit showings of plot hax actually happening here, or I will close this thread as it's already been rejected. If you cannot do the bare minimum of proving that order is shown to have an actual script being manipulated or the theaters being literal when it comes to how the world functions and not just a metaphorical explanation for anything, I will close the thread, any more insults I see from this thread I will start reporting, so no jabs, no insults, no nothing.
GaytdumYou sir are a joke and should be treated as a joke.
I’m lost now.Gaytdum
That is just the way I say God damn.I’m lost now.
I see.That is just the way I say God damn.
One of the supporters of MG said a feat involving order seemed like fate manip so it’s been nonstop called fate manip in this thread, no hate once again, already went over my thoughts about this in MGGDWe never consider order as fate, I am unsure how people even use it as an argument.
Fate = order is not the same as the order = fate. Did you understand it?One of the supporters of MG said a feat involving order seemed like fate manip so it’s been nonstop called fate manip in this thread, no hate once again, already went over my thoughts about this in MGGD
I think you misunderstood me, I don’t think order is fate. I was just saying why I think people keep saying order is fate.Fate = order is not the same as the order = fate. Did you understand it?
Oh alrightI think you misunderstood me, I don’t think order is fate. I was just saying why I think people keep saying order is fate.
The thing is, that by itself have nothing to do with plot manipulation. I know you want to use this as a support argument for the theather thing and the mention of script. But the thing is that the staff doesn't think that the principal argument is enough.At the very least everyone here should at least know that the order of the Main God is not the order of fate (this order doesn't exist so far), I'm not sure if it's "order of the gears" or something like that, since all your powers are based on that, or if your order is "the will of the world", I believe the first option, the will of the world can see maybe one more of your 6 or 5 titles, anyway, CRT makes more sense when not distorts the word "plot" to "plan", the "wheel of fate" has ceased to be the manipulation of fate since the order literally defines everything in the world, because everything revolves around that order.
"There are no contradictions in my world. Everything is spinning according to the wheels of order."
"If there is an invisible gear in the magical eye implanted in God, it is no exaggeration to say that it constitutes the order of the world. It is this one that defines who conforms and who does not."
The order of Eques constitutes the whole order of the world, and defines what is in conformity and what is not, this seems neither manipulation of destiny nor manipulation of the greater destiny.
It wasn't exactly that part I wanted you to focus on, but the part where the order of Eques constitutes the order of the world, as this sounds something like the previous quote. And I don't think that's why he has law manipulation.The thing is, that by itself have nothing to do with plot manipulation. I know you want to use this as a support argument for the theather thing and the mention of script. But the thing is that the staff doesn't think that the principal argument is enough.
Law manipulation does the thing about what is confirm or not (and it's one of the feat that show that order is law manipulation in first)
Bruh, the author make it clear what he mean when he talking about script thing, all according to the script of the world, he previously mention about theater things and then he mention about the script@Fixxed no it very does not make it clear that's what he's referring to, especially when he does not elaborate on what he means by the script and theatres, so argument they have plot hax relies on so much headcanon here.
Honestly neither do I, but I saw plot manipulation that looked like fate manipulation, so I thought the order of Eques would have a chance of being.it legit makes sense for order to be plot, well imo
im surprised it needs more proof, well im not familiar with plot manip standards here