Update Goku (DBZ Manga)'s base form to Tier 4-B: Solar System level

[JohnCenaNation]

Oh boy, I can not believe that I am actually going to be doing this Dragon Ball content revision thread, but hey since its long overdue might as well just do it. Dear ladies and gentlemen, it's me JohnCenaNation and it always bothers me why base Goku from DBZ manga is not Solar System level especially during the Buu Saga.

Base Goku was able to have a Spirit Bomb struggle with Kid Buu who is Solar System level himself, despite the fact Goku is completely stamina drained whereas Kid Buu isn't as far as I am concerned lol.

After having his stamina restored, Super Saiyan Goku one-shotted the ****** with the Spirit Bomb using only one hand very casually.


I could hear people screaming outlier in the comment section, funny thing is we accepted this feat for DBZ Anime Goku which is by the way listed in his profile. So why can't we do the same thing for DBZ Manga Goku as well? Double standard much, especially when this feat is in the manga as well just like in anime.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely agree, it looks really good.

 

[AguilaR202]

Who gives a shit tbh, this effectively original EoZ Gokus scaling.

And it barely benefits canon Goku who quickly becomes 2-C in BoG.

agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm going to follow to see how this goes, but I feel like assuming he was always 4-B in based throughout all of Buu saga might be a stretch, but I don't doubt it might have been possible to where he eventually became 4-B all the way up to base via multiple zenkais.

 

[AguilaR202]

I'm going to follow to see how this goes, but I feel like assuming he was always 4-B in based throughout all of Buu saga might be a stretch, but I don't doubt it might have been possible to where he eventually became 4-B all the way up to base via multiple zenkais.

I think this would only apply to Goku after Shenron restores his energy to full. Goku being this strong from the start doesn’t make much sense.

 

[SamanPatou]

Scaling Base Goku to Kid Buu makes absolutely no sense, while the latter could ragdoll SSJ2 Vegeta and best SSJ3 Goku.
Kid Buu was already under a lot of strain because of the strength of the Genkidama, which is clearly where most of the power comes from.

The need of strength to push it is clearly a separate issue and doesn't require nearly the same strength that it takes to even just match Kid Buu in battle, also because Goku needed only SSJ to deliver the final push.

Also, zenkais have never been mentioned in the Buu saga and shouldn't be the default assumption.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I think this would only apply to Goku after Shenron restores his energy to full. Goku being this strong from the start doesn’t make much sense.

This I agree.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

For consistency sake, post-stamina regen SSJ Goku should scale, not Base Goku. Goku did not suffer a near-death experience during the Buu fight so far from being a Zenkai, so I don't agree with the OP completely.

SSJ Goku during the first chapter of Super can one shot Kid Buu with one punch, so it definitely makes sense as he still doesn't have god power.

 

[Tyranno223]

It's worth remembering that Zenkai boosts are only the most pronounced power boosts Saiyans get. They also passively get stronger as they fight, so you don't need Zenkai to argue they got stronger.

 

[Damage3245]

Base Goku is absolutely not on the same level as Kid Buu though.

I am against this proposal.

 

[AwkguyDB]

SSJ Goku yes Base.. no

 

[Stefano4444]

I fully against this CRT, have Base Goku scaling to Kid Buu just doesn't work.

And for Toei Goku be 2-C in Base, lets just say that its also incorrect for its own reasons.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It's worth remembering that Zenkai boosts are only the most pronounced power boosts Saiyans get. They also passively get stronger as they fight, so you don't need Zenkai to argue they got stronger.

You will be arguing Goku grew in a rate never shown before in the show, simply outclassing SSJ3 via passive AD is not something Goku is capable of doing, nor has this ever been implied. A growth of strength of that caliber would obviously be noted by the characters, especially if it was equal to Kid Buu, the strongest foe they have alive at the moment!

You can't argue that with consistency

 

[Tyranno223]

You will be arguing Goku grew in a rate never shown before in the show, simply outclassing SSJ3 via passive AD is not something Goku is capable of doing, nor has this ever been implied. A growth of strength of that caliber would obviously be noted by the characters, especially if it was equal to Kid Buu, the strongest foe they have alive at the moment!

You can't argue that with consistency

Well let's remember that a lot of the power ups in the ToP or the Future saga occured due to passive AD, and those were far larger jumps. Admittedly those are later showings, but it does show that Saiyan biology does allow for substantial jumps.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Well let's remember that a lot of the power ups in the ToP or the Future saga occured due to passive AD, and those were far larger jumps. Admittedly those are later showings, but it does show that Saiyan biology does allow for substantial jumps.

Oop-Oop-Oop-Oop-Oop! No using later examples where they got a completely different set of power levels, and a different kind of ki entirely!

You can't treat the DB universe as a real world! During Z, where the author had a completely different view of the universe and Saiyans altogether, Goku has never shown anything of the sort even after experiencing fights for longer than Buu, like Cell!

Ah this also doesn't solve for the characters not even giving a passing comment like, "woah, Kakarot suddenly got stronger", or "I..Impossible, his strength is close to Buu's", which are likely comments that would happen if Goku was truly written to have become this strong! Let's be intelectually honest here!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, on second thought, I don't agree with the proposal, base Goku surpassing Kid Buu doesn't quite sit right with me at least until DBS.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Disagree with this, the fact that Base Goku could clash against kid buu with the spirit bomb completely contradicts the idea that their clashing is done through strength v strength.

Saying “well its outlier for base goku but ssj scale” is even more dubious. Obvious cherry picking, if it don’t work for base Goku then it doesn’t work for ssj for the same reason.

Kid Buu is fighting against the spirit bomb+ goku pushing it. Equivalent of someone slamming a car into you while slamming in the gas pedal. All the work is coming from the car (spirit bomb) while the driver (goku) isn’t doing much but guiding it forward.

Vegeta states Goku doesn’t have enough energy to unleash the spirit bomb full power, so Goku having his strength restored means all he did was use the SB full power.

Goku doesn’t even recover from a point of death, just had his energy restored, so he doesn’t get a zenkai or anything

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I fully against this CRT, have Base Goku scaling to Kid Buu just doesn't work.

And for Toei Goku be 2-C in Base, lets just say that its also incorrect for its own reasons.

Oh no, I knew this was about to happen.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Toei Goku only scales in SSJ but SSJ has a multiplier and downscaling a multiplier into base would still be 2-C for toeiverse

Even if you downscale here with post regen Buu I still don’t know if that’d be Solar System level but if it is then it should only scale to that version of Goku but yeah Base-Ku definitely doesn’t scale to Buu

So it just depends how many joules kid Buu scales to tbh idk even if would be SS still

 

[Omegas03]

In all honesty SSJ Goku scaling at the end may be fine due to what happened in chou manga just a few months after (BoG SSJ Goku one shotting Cell and Frieza while being about to fight Kid Buu) but ain't definite proof i disagree base goku scaling