Update Goku (DBS Manga)'s base form to Tier 3-A: Universe level

[SirAlex09]

Okay and do we know how accurate the translation is?
Regardless the whole absorbing the power into base refers to the pure power if anything since everyone else could sense him in base. It wouldn't matter if he could sense it or not

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If Goku is in a perpetual state of Super Saiyan God-like power, then he should be able to sense God Ki, right? Because he could not.

no he just absorbed the power of super saiyan god into his base form

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Toyotarou is very inconsistent regarding to God Ki, in one instant Goku can't sense God Ki and in other instant he could:

 

[CloverDragon03]

If Goku is in a perpetual state of Super Saiyan God-like power, then he should be able to sense God Ki, right? Because he could not.

Beerus’s planet has been consistently noted to be too far away from Earth for normal usage of Instant Transmission.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Beerus’s planet has been consistently noted to be too far away from Earth for normal usage of Instant Transmission.

The remark towards Toppo works.

Toyotarou is very inconsistent regarding to God Ki, in one instant Goku can't sense God Ki and in other instant he could:

By the time of the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga—or, at the very least, the final battle with Moro—Goku's Ki had reached "god level". God Ki has a distinct feel, too.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Some more God Ki sense inconsistencies in the manga:

Base Vegeta was unable to sense God Ki, but base Goku can sense God Ki in the same arc. The God Ki sensing shouldn't be used here as an argument, it's full of inconsistencies.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Some more God Ki sense inconsistencies in the manga:

Base Vegeta was unable to sense God Ki, but base Goku can sense God Ki in the same arc. The God Ki sensing shouldn't be used here as an argument, it's full of inconsistencies.

I agree especially in the anime when it’s obvious he absorbed ssjg into his base there’s god ki sensing Inconsistencies
Plus I’m pretty sure Goku absorbed the power of it originally into base

 

[Damage3245]

Base Vegeta was unable to sense God Ki, but base Goku can sense God Ki in the same arc. The God Ki sensing shouldn't be used here as an argument, it's full of inconsistencies.

In the first panel you linked, Goku isn't sensing God Chi.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

God Ki has a distinct feel, too.

What Vegeta asked Goku about Moro even confirmed this.
Goku and Vegeta also do not have the same abilities.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

when it’s obvious he absorbed ssjg into his base

The anime also went out of its way to explicitly state that gaining control of Super Saiyan God boosted Goku's normal strength to greater heights and to give Goku a 3-A feat in his base form.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

In the first panel you linked, Goku isn't sensing God Chi.

"More like God Chi, then?"
"His Chi itself wasn't that huge"

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Regarding to Dende stating Goku has reached God level in terms of Chi, if I recall correctly, he never healed Goku before in DBS manga so he wouldn't be able to tell before. Regarding to God Ki having different feel, the similar statement was also made when Goku went Super Saiyan Blue against Top in the anime. So both of these arguments held no weight.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

he never healed Goku before in DBS manga so he wouldn't be able to tell before.

He can sense Ki.

Regarding to God Ki having different feel, the similar statement was also made when Goku went Super Saiyan Blue against Top in the anime. So both of these arguments held no weight.

How exactly does the anime invalidate the manga?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The anime also went out of its way to explicitly state that gaining control of Super Saiyan God boosted Goku's normal strength to greater heights and to give Goku a 3-A feat in his base form.

That’s what Base Beyond God is and after the events of BOG and during ROF he’s implied to have absorbed the power like he did in the anime with SSJG vision appearing behind him as he tries to hit Whis

 

[AerrowStorm1]

This content revision thread has been since long overdue so might as well just do so. The only reason why Goku's base form in DBS Manga is Solar System level and not Universe level is regarding to the huge stigma of him not absorbing Super Saiyan God power into his base form achieving Saiyan Beyond God. This is not true and I have evidences proving otherwise:

Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection ‘F’ manga which is canon to Dragon Ball Super manga since its illustrated by the same mangaka showed two instances of Goku absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form. One when Goku was sparring against Whis and two when he was about to fight Frieza.

Not to mention, we were also given description regarding to what is the Super Saiyan Blue transformation is all about in the very same manga, which followed both the movie and the anime descriptions of Super Saiyan Blue.

So if we are going to accept both the movie and the anime for evidences regarding to Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Blue, why should the manga be any different since there is no evidences that says otherwise other than Toyotarou not including this arc in the Dragon Ball Super manga since he already did it in a separate manga and made multiple references to it?

I heavily disagree as the this indicates more that he can tap into God ki in his base form than he ALWAYS has it in his base.

For example, in the pages before the afterimage of SSG Goku, Goku and Vegeta COULDN'T hit Whis before Goku powers up and causes the afterimage.

That implies to me at least, especially with Whis' words (So close in this translation, but alternate translations I've seen include "much better". Either way, here's what I'm pretty sure is the original Japanese)

Personally, it wouldn't make sense to me for the narrative to display him visually powering up for his charge and attacking if he was always in that power level in base, nor would Whis' reaction make sense if Goku was attacking at the same level as he had been all fight.

As for the F-file, that sounds to me more like, again, he's tapping into the power of the form without transforming, not just walking around in it all the time. "It is said that Saiyans can GAIN CONTROL of God-Like power without Changing form".

 

[AerrowStorm1]

For added proof. The afterimage thing has been shown before. When Goku used the Oozaru fist, we see an afterimage of Oozaru behind Goku to show he's tapping into Oozaru's power without turning into Oozaru.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I heavily disagree as the this indicates more that he can tap into God ki in his base form than he ALWAYS has it in his base.

For example, in the pages before the afterimage of SSG Goku, Goku and Vegeta COULDN'T hit Whis before Goku powers up and causes the afterimage.

That implies to me at least, especially with Whis' words (So close in this translation, but alternate translations I've seen include "much better". Either way, here's what I'm pretty sure is the original Japanese)

Personally, it wouldn't make sense to me for the narrative to display him visually powering up for his charge and attacking if he was always in that power level in base, nor would Whis' reaction make sense if Goku was attacking at the same level as he had been all fight.

As for the F-file, that sounds to me more like, again, he's tapping into the power of the form without transforming, not just walking around in it all the time. "It is said that Saiyans can GAIN CONTROL of God-Like power without Changing form".

Goku just absorbed God Ki POWER into his base form. Doesn't mean he has God Ki in his base form aswell, we could see this in the Anime. When Goku first fought Bergamo in the exhibition tournament, till Goku turned into SSB, no one commented on his God Ki, when transformed into SSB, Gods commented on it.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

In the first panel you linked, Goku isn't sensing God Chi.

Goku doesn't have God Ki in his base form, so moot point.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I heavily disagree as the this indicates more that he can tap into God ki in his base form than he ALWAYS has it in his base.

For example, in the pages before the afterimage of SSG Goku, Goku and Vegeta COULDN'T hit Whis before Goku powers up and causes the afterimage.

That implies to me at least, especially with Whis' words (So close in this translation, but alternate translations I've seen include "much better". Either way, here's what I'm pretty sure is the original Japanese)

Personally, it wouldn't make sense to me for the narrative to display him visually powering up for his charge and attacking if he was always in that power level in base, nor would Whis' reaction make sense if Goku was attacking at the same level as he had been all fight.

As for the F-file, that sounds to me more like, again, he's tapping into the power of the form without transforming, not just walking around in it all the time. "It is said that Saiyans can GAIN CONTROL of God-Like power without Changing form".

Okay? Goku couldn’t hit Whis even after the afterimage of SSJG was shown

and that’s Korean I think and not Japanese
Also for the godlike power

Goku just absorbed God Ki POWER into his base form. Doesn't mean he has God Ki in his base form aswell, we could see this in the Anime. When Goku first fought Bergamo in the exhibition tournament, till Goku turned into SSB, no one commented on his God Ki, when transformed into SSB, Gods commented on it.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

24 hours have passed, looks like we will have to wait another 24 hours more before the update becomes official.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

24 hours have passed, looks like we will have to wait another 24 hours more before the update becomes official.

You made this at 10 PM on Tuesday so in 4 hours and a couple minutes this can be applied since 2 staff agreed and the counters have been addressed

 

[Spinoirr]

Also can we talk about the fact ssj goku black beat down ssj blue vegeta and after the time chamber training vegeta in ssj god beat down ssj rose goku black despite the fact that rose gives him a ssj blue level boost as rose is just a gods version of blue

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Also can we talk about the fact ssj goku black beat down ssj blue vegeta and after the time chamber training vegeta in ssj god beat down ssj rose goku black despite the fact that rose gives him a ssj blue level boost as rose is just a gods version of blue

Yeah Ssj after Goku black saga should’ve had Universal at the bare minimum but atleast now base Goku after BOG and characters who scale will rightfully have Universal AP

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It’s been 48 hours these are the affected profiles Goku (DBS Manga), Vegeta (DBS Manga), Majin Buu (DBS Manga), Dai Kaioshin (DBS manga), Moro (DBS Manga), Goku Black (DBS Manga)

 

[JohnCenaNation]

So who is gonna be doing the profiles updating? Definitely not me, since I suck at it lol.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

So who is gonna be doing the profiles updating? Definitely not me, since I suck at it lol.

I can do it

Looks alright, I agree. Unless counter arguments are brought forth?

I personally think 3-A base DBS Manga Goku is legitimately fine considering we still have the movie and the "Saiyan Beyond God" statement.

Can one of you guys open Vegeta (DBS manga) and Goku Black (DBS manga) then this crt can be closed

 

[SirAlex09]

I heavily disagree as the this indicates more that he can tap into God ki in his base form than he ALWAYS has it in his base.

This doesn't work because else he would be able to sense God Ki which he can't.

For added proof. The afterimage thing has been shown before. When Goku used the Oozaru fist, we see an afterimage of Oozaru behind Goku to show he's tapping into Oozaru's power without turning into Oozaru.

He isn't tapping into the Oozaru. It just serves as a metaphorical image for his unlocked potential.
Also tapping into Oozaru form
has an official name: Ikari form and it makes the user go beserk ( which is independant of Broly's own beserk personality) and have yellow eyes.

Second If he were to tap into Oozaru this would break the entire power scaling system since a 10x multiplier would make him much stronger than Radditz

As for the F-file, that sounds to me more like, again, he's tapping into the power of the form without transforming, not just walking around in it all the time. "It is said that Saiyans can GAIN CONTROL of God-Like power without Changing form".

It also says "God LIKE power". IT doesn't say god power which would be synonymous with God ki. So this implies it just similar in power rather than nature.

This whole argument is debunked anyways when Krillin and Co could sense God like SSJ Goku against beerus.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I can do it


Can one of you guys open Vegeta (DBS manga) and Goku Black (DBS manga) then this crt can be closed

So how far are you with the profile updates?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

So how far are you with the profile updates?

I haven’t started yet but 4/6 profiles are open I’m just waiting for Goku Black and vegeta pages to get unlocked before I update the rest

 

[CloverDragon03]

If this has been accepted, I may be able to apply changes as long as the appropriate profiles are unlocked

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If this has been accepted, I may be able to apply changes as long as the appropriate profiles are unlocked

Well I was gonna apply them but I was waiting for Goku Black and Vegeta profiles to be unlocked

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think we should split the BoG and RoF keys given the Saiyan Beyond God thing that happens. In addition, I don't know why we never include Goku's base form despite him fighting in base quite a bit. So, in my opinion, it should look like this:

At least High 4-C, 4-B with Super Saiyan forms, 3-A with Super Saiyan God | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Perfected Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Power-Stressed Form, far higher with Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Perfected Ultra Instinct | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms

Key: Battle of Gods Saga | Ressurection 'F' Saga | Universe 6 - Future Trunks Saga | Universe Survival - Broly Saga | Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga | Granolah the Survivor Saga

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I think we should split the BoG and RoF keys given the Saiyan Beyond God thing that happens. In addition, I don't know why we never include Goku's base form despite him fighting in base quite a bit. So, in my opinion, it should look like this:

At least High 4-C, 4-B with Super Saiyan forms, 3-A with Super Saiyan God | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Perfected Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Power-Stressed Form, far higher with Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Perfected Ultra Instinct | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms

Key: Battle of Gods Saga | Ressurection 'F' Saga | Universe 6 - Future Trunks Saga | Universe Survival - Broly Saga | Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga | Granolah the Survivor Saga

I feel like keeping SSJ is fine until the ssjg absorbed into base part and I’d probably remove the ssjb part and put it in later and format it similarly to its anime counterpart and after the 3-A with ssjg put the scans and put that he later absorbs that power into base

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I think we should split the BoG and RoF keys given the Saiyan Beyond God thing that happens. In addition, I don't know why we never include Goku's base form despite him fighting in base quite a bit. So, in my opinion, it should look like this:

At least High 4-C, 4-B with Super Saiyan forms, 3-A with Super Saiyan God | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Perfected Super Saiyan Blue | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms, far higher with Power-Stressed Form, far higher with Ultra Instinct -Sign- and Perfected Ultra Instinct | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms | 3-A, higher with Super Saiyan Forms, even higher with God Forms

Key: Battle of Gods Saga | Ressurection 'F' Saga | Universe 6 - Future Trunks Saga | Universe Survival - Broly Saga | Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga | Granolah the Survivor Saga

I feel like keeping SSJ is fine until the ssjg absorbed into base part and I’d probably remove the ssjb part and put it in later and format it similarly to its anime counterpart and after the 3-A with ssjg put the scans and put that he later absorbs that power into base

If you don't mind me asking you, Universe 7 macrocosm is treated as 2-C in noncanon but in canon its treated as Low 2-C correct? Therefore in DBS Manga, characters who scales to Belmod and above should be Low 2-C because Gods of Destruction were stated to be able destroy an entire macrocosm during their fight.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If you don't mind me asking you, Universe 7 macrocosm is treated as 2-C in noncanon but in canon its treated as Low 2-C correct? Therefore in DBS Manga, characters who scales to Belmod and above should be Low 2-C because Gods of Destruction were stated to be able destroy an entire macrocosm during their fight.

No if it’s just one space time continumm time has to be stated to being affected but this doesn’t apply for 2 or more since the range would reach multiple space times making it in the equation so if it was the destruction of U6 and U7 like in the anime it would be At most 2-C but sadly not the case here

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I can do it


Can one of you guys open Vegeta (DBS manga) and Goku Black (DBS manga) then this crt can be closed

They are unlocked now.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

They are unlocked now.

I’ve made all the edits those profiles can be locked and this thread can be locked as well

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I’ve made all the edits those profiles can be locked and this thread can be locked as well

You kinda messed up on the keys section at the bottom of the page. Also does the Battle of Gods key applies for DBS Anime Goku as well regarding to his pre-Super Saiyan God state?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

You kinda messed up on the keys section at the bottom of the page. Also does the Battle of Gods key applies for DBS Anime Goku as well regarding to his pre-Super Saiyan God state?

What did I mess up? The god power absorbed into base only applies for after the Beerus and Goku clash

 

[ByAsura]

This was the plan originally, but we had contentions on the RoF manga being canon to the DBS manga since it's basically promotion for the film.

If it's canon after all, then I guess this is fine.

It also makes sense with Goku stomping the holy hell out of an opponent that was beating 17 in the Morro Arc.