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Untouchable Hax Bastards (Alex Mercer vs Obito Uchiha)

Nah, if it's confirmed that the more concentrated the mind hax is, the higher its potency then we can assume that the mind hax is above baseline but if it's not then it's just a large scale baseline mind hax, that's my takes
 
Noneless21 said:
Nah, if it's confirmed that the more concentrated the mind hax is, the higher its potency then we can assume that the mind hax is above baseline but if it's not then it's just a large scale baseline mind hax, that's my takes
Click to expand...
So, mindhax that scales only layers above thousands of minds (10,000 or so) or such could overcome mind-hax that can affect millions of minds, simply due to the former having layers while the latter has no aforementioned layers (even though the latter operates at a far greater numeric value that the former scales up from)?

That's kind of weird. Even AP scaling chains don't work like that from what I've seen from this site, as even if there are characters that scales several layers above a certain AP to one-shot a character (e.g. 50 tons of tnt), it doesn't apply to other characters with significantly greater AP such as 600 tons of tnt, so characters that scales several layers above 50 tons of tnt of one-shotting wouldn't be able to beat one-shot characters that scales to 600 tons of tnt as a result.

Is there any CRT that says that became the new standard for mind-hax?
 
DeathNoodles said:
So, mindhax that scales only layers above thousands of minds (10,000 or so) or such could overcome mind-hax that can affect millions of minds, simply due to the former having layers while the latter has no aforementioned layers (even though the latter operates at a far greater numeric value that the former scales up from)?

That's kind of weird. Even AP scaling chains don't work like that from what I've seen from this site, as even if there are characters that scales several layers above a certain AP to one-shot a character (e.g. 50 tons of tnt), it doesn't apply to other characters with significantly greater AP such as 600 tons of tnt, so characters that scales several layers above 50 tons of tnt of one-shotting wouldn't be able to beat one-shot characters that scales to 600 tons of tnt as a result.

Is there any CRT that says that became the new standard for mind-hax?
Click to expand...
I dunno actually, i just hear the news from the other thread so yeah
 
I swear to God if this Thread actually takes several more months to enter Grace again I'm going to give myself a ******* concussion via doorframe.
 
Noneless21 said:
I forgot bout it..., sorry bout that
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That's all right.

I just searched them up anyways. Are these the CRTs you've mentioned for the layers scaling thing?

I heard those are the CRTs that started it all, but I'm not sure if the layers scaling solely comes from them. But the OP of those CRTs argued about resistance layers and such.
 
At this rate, we might as just put it into Grace for Incon since they're gonna be stuck like this forever.
 
Noneless21 said:
Ah that is indeed the one, tho i actually haven't seen how it devolve into
Click to expand...
Okay, I've just skimmed through those threads. The conclusion actually isn't mind-hax potency being scaled by layers, but rather mind-hax potency is judged by case-by-case basis. But, the OP suggested that mind-hax should be treated similarly to other hax abilities such as Time Manipulation or Disease Manipulation as a default assumption... Which is to say, it operates by layers of mind-hax potency and resistance. Case-by-case can apply to override that default assumption, such as there being explicit evidence that the character who can mind-hax vast numbers of minds has shown proof that they can concentrate that power into a single target, rather than just being evenly spread-out to suggests it's more range than potency, and other similar reasons where mind-hax numbers has a more solid basis than mere range.

Due to that default assumption, mind-hax potency and resistance are indeed scaled by layers if there are no particular mechanics to demonstrate that a character's mind-hax numbers are more than just range for them affecting multiple targets at once (such as being able to concentrate the power of manipulating the minds of multiple targets at once into that single target, and other similar mechanics).

Since I haven't yet spotted any layers for the Prototype characters' mind-hax resistance here, mind-hax could indeed be an issue for him. But, as of Prototype 2, Mercer has a hive-mind of millions of people that are all connected to him and that he is basically a part of - so Mercer himself is more of a character that, in essence, possesses multiple minds rather than one mind due to that psychic-like connection he has, so having to mind-hax him would basically be equivalent to having mind-hax millions of minds at once. In a way, Mercer's mind-hax resistance could qualify as a "case-by-case" basis to override that default assumption.

However, default assumption is still default assumption.

The only question I have is this: Does Obito use Genjutsu as a starting move in a Versus matchup in-character, like most of the other Uchihas do (especially Itachi)?

Although I'm pretty sure this becomes a stomp since Genjutsu works at a long-distance range (and can work near-instantaneously the moment the Sharingan of an Uchiha gazes at their target), especially with Obito having prior knowledge here, but Genjutsu as one starting moves could cement the confirmation of it being even more of a stomp. And well... Stomp matches can't be added to character profiles.
 
DeathNoodles said:
Okay, I've just skimmed through those threads. The conclusion actually isn't mind-hax potency being scaled by layers, but rather mind-hax potency is judged by case-by-case basis. But, the OP suggested that mind-hax should be treated similarly to other hax abilities such as Time Manipulation or Disease Manipulation as a default assumption... Which is to say, it operates by layers of mind-hax potency and resistance. Case-by-case can apply to override that default assumption, such as there being explicit evidence that the character who can mind-hax vast numbers of minds has shown proof that they can concentrate that power into a single target, rather than just being evenly spread-out to suggests it's more range than potency, and other similar reasons where mind-hax numbers has a more solid basis than mere range.

Due to that default assumption, mind-hax potency and resistance are indeed scaled by layers if there are no particular mechanics to demonstrate that a character's mind-hax numbers are more than just range for them affecting multiple targets at once (such as being able to concentrate the power of manipulating the minds of multiple targets at once into that single target, and other similar mechanics).

Since I haven't yet spotted any layers for the Prototype characters' mind-hax resistance here, mind-hax could indeed be an issue for him. But, as of Prototype 2, Mercer has a hive-mind of millions of people that are all connected to him and that he is basically a part of - so Mercer himself is more of a character that, in essence, possesses multiple minds rather than one mind due to that psychic-like connection he has, so having to mind-hax him would basically be equivalent to having mind-hax millions of minds at once. In a way, Mercer's mind-hax resistance could qualify as a "case-by-case" basis to override that default assumption.

However, default assumption is still default assumption.

The only question I have is this: Does Obito use Genjutsu as a starting move in a Versus matchup in-character, like most of the other Uchihas do (especially Itachi)?

Although I'm pretty sure this becomes a stomp since Genjutsu works at a long-distance range (and can work near-instantaneously the moment the Sharingan of an Uchiha gazes at their target), especially with Obito having prior knowledge here, but Genjutsu as one starting moves could cement it to being even more of a stomp. And well... Stomp matches can't be added to character profiles.
Click to expand...
Well, he have prior knowledge as if alex touch obito then he's dead so he'll probably start with genjutsu...

But if alex know bout Obito's genjutsu then he'll probably will try to avoid it bit it'll be harder than that i think
 
Noneless21 said:
Well, he have prior knowledge as if alex touch obito then he's dead so he'll probably start with genjutsu...

But if alex know bout Obito's genjutsu then he'll probably will try to avoid it bit it'll be harder than that i think
Click to expand...
But Genjutsu works at a pretty long range (not sure how far the distance, but it seems like it's definitely farther than melee range), and I recall Sharingan Genjutsu works as long as a Sharingan user even so much as look at their victims (from what I can recall, if some of the users' points are accurate, the Sharingan Genjutsu can work even without needing the Sharingan user to make eye contact via Itachi's feat of affecting Naruto), and it's near impossible to avoid an Uchiha gazing at the target...
 
DeathNoodles said:
But Genjutsu works at a pretty long-distant range (not sure how far the distance, but it seems like it's definitely farther than melee range), and I recall Sharingan Genjutsu works as long as a Sharingan user even so much as look at their victims (from what I can recall, if some of the users' points are accurate, the Sharingan Genjutsu can work even without needing to gaze at the targets' eyes via Itachi's feat of affecting Naruto), and it's near impossible to avoid an Uchiha gazing at the target...
Click to expand...
Only Mangekyo Genjutsu works without Eye Contact, the Normal Sharingan still requires you to look in their eyes.
 
DeathNoodles said:
Obito has Mengekyou though, and I'm pretty sure Obito's Kamui came from his Mangekyou eyes...
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's literally stated that he never uses the Mangekyo In-Combat, even when he's actively using Kamui so it's really weird since we see his Base Sharingan on all the time but we never actually see him turn on his Mangekyo until his Mask got destroyed.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Yeah, but it's literally stated that he never uses the Mangekyo In-Combat, even when he's actively using Kamui so it's really weird since we see his Base Sharingan on all the time but we never actually see him turn on his Mangekyo until his Mask got destroyed.
Click to expand...
That was him hiding his identity as his mangekyo Looks the exact same as Kakashis
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Yeah, but it's literally stated that he never uses the Mangekyo In-Combat, even when he's actively using Kamui so it's really weird since we see his Base Sharingan on all the time but we never actually see him turn on his Mangekyo until his Mask got destroyed.
Click to expand...
So he never uses Genjutsu in-character, or he still does, but just in base Sharingan form (and never in Mangekyou form)?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
He's never used a Mangekyo Genjustu.
Click to expand...
Ah.

Then as along as Obito never uses Mengekyou Genjutsu, based on your statements, it's still doable for Mercer to win with the reasons I've mentioned before (which is to say, Mercer uses his gasses to distract or throw Obito off to prevent him from getting close to use his short-distance Kamui, he uses his Regeneration to endure attacks from Obito or his Jubi Jinchuuriki, then either gets a lucky enough to make contact with Obito to absorb him or outlives Obito. Especially since, with prior knowledge, he can just close his eyes or never making eye contact against base Sharingan Genjutsu), and short-distance Kamui can only give Obito so many options...
 
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theultimate5105 said:
Yagura is a perfect jin. I would say yes he does actually
Click to expand...
I personally find that really stupid and considering that Sasuke could mentally project himself into Naruto's Mindscape to get rid of Kurama with the Base Sharingan, why couldn't Obito do the same thing to Yagura?
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I personally find that really stupid and considering that Sasuke could mentally project himself into Naruto's Mindscape to get rid of Kurama with the Base Sharingan, why couldn't Obito do the same thing to Yagura?
Click to expand...
That was more suppressing his chakra. Kurama likely wasn't effected all that much
 
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