---Epic Battle--- Alex Mercer vs James Heller (Prototype 2)

[Patates]

Alex Mercer Vs James Heller


-Form:End of Prototype 2
-Situation: Plot-induced stupidity and character-induced stupidity are off
-- SBA



Alex Mercer win: @DeathNoodles @XSOULOFCINDERX @Bedircawyq @DonkeySlayer06 @Patates


James heller win:


Incon:

(Please do not present arguments that this war has already been fought. I believe that people who are knowledgeable on the subject know that the war in question is a complete plot armor. In the battle in P2, we saw that Alex did not use abilities such as bone armor and energy cannon. I want arguments independent of the fighting in the game.)

 

[DeathNoodles]

You did not specify which key of James Heller it is... So SBA has the strongest key used, with the "Mercer-Absorbed" key for James Heller being used.

So James Heller wins via higher AP (due to getting stronger from absorbing Alex Mercer already) and already having all of Alex Mercer's abilities.

-

Here's an advice: If you want a hypothetical match that re-rearranges a match of what a hypothetical fight would look like between Alex Mercer and James Heller at the end of the Prototype 2 game (but under different conditions), specify that James Heller's "End-Game" key is used. The End-Game key is the same key of James Heller during that final fight with Alex Mercer for the Prototype 2 game.

And if you want this match to avoid the same PiS and CiS that occurs during the final P2 fight to be excluded, mention in the OP that "Plot-Induced Stupidity and Character-Induced Stupidity is off". And if you want to be on an even further safe side by having both characters going all out, specify "Both characters are bloodlusted" in the OP of the fight as well.

These conditions I've recommended are the only factors that can make this matchup be any different from the canon (only, unlike the canon, James Heller is now fighting with all of Alex Mercer's abilities as well due to the "Mercer-Absorbed" key being used by SBA).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, what DeathNoodles said.

 

[Patates]

You did not specify which key of James Heller it is... So SBA has the strongest key used, with the "Mercer-Absorbed" key for James Heller being used.

So James Heller wins via higher AP (due to getting stronger from absorbing Alex Mercer already) and already having all of Alex Mercer's abilities.

-

Here's an advice: If you want a hypothetical match that re-rearranges a match of what a hypothetical fight would look like between Alex Mercer and James Heller at the end of the Prototype 2 game (but under different conditions), specify that James Heller's "End-Game" key is used. The End-Game key is the same key of James Heller during that final fight with Alex Mercer for the Prototype 2 game.

And if you want this match to avoid the same PiS and CiS that occurs during the final P2 fight to be excluded, mention in the OP that "Plot-Induced Stupidity and Character-Induced Stupidity is off". And if you want to be on an even further safe side by having both characters going all out, specify "Both characters are bloodlusted" in the OP of the fight as well.

These conditions I've recommended are the only factors that can make this matchup be any different from the canon (only, unlike the canon, James Heller is now fighting with all of Alex Mercer's abilities as well due to the "Mercer-Absorbed" key being used by SBA).

You touched on a good point. The form I had in mind was the form in which the 2 characters fight each other at the end of the game. (Although I still think that Alex can defeat James' Mercer-absorbed form with experience and the advantage of being the main virus, this is a different topic ) I will make my arrangements in line with your suggestions.

 

[Patates]

@XSOULOFCINDERX @DeathNoodles I'm waiting for your comments

 

[Bedircawyq]

Alex mercer beats

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Alex Ap more than James. Alex FRA

 

[DeathNoodles]

All right, with the End of Prototype 2 (or "End-Game") key of James Heller being used, along with CIS and PIS being off... And with the SBA State of mind, I would say the odds are too heavily stacked against James Heller to the extent that this will become a clear decisive victory for Alex Mercer (but would not be a stomp because of a few factors that gives Heller at least a bit of chance).

Here's why:

Better combat applicable hax for Mercer:

Mercer has better abilities geared towards affecting infected targets via hax than Heller does outside of Blacklight Infection... Such as Mercer's Absorption that possesses Resistance Negation (via fully overcoming the resistances to assimilation abilities that the Evolved should've possessed). While Heller also has Resistance Negation towards his Absorption as well, Heller's one has only shown to be defensive (he has only ever absorbed Mercer's hand via touch when Mercer attempted to kill him via Biological Manipulation and Body Puppetry, and never replicated this feat ever again) while Mercer's own Resistance Negation Absorption can both be used offensively and is able to absorb the entirety of multiple targets (where as Heller has only shown to absorb parts of a single target, such as only their hand).

While Mercer has never outright tried to absorb Heller in the game for plot reasons, due to the circumstances of this matchup, nothing is stopping Mercer from trying to absorb Heller from the moment he touches him due to the Resistance Negation - however, as unintelligent as Heller is portrayed to be in Prototype 2, considering Heller has outright saw the 8 Evolved being absorbed by Mercer via touch, with even Heller vocalising his shock at Mercer absorbing the Evolved... We can assume that Heller at least knows enough basic strategy to avoid being directly touched by Mercer, and with Heller severing his own limbs to avoid Mercer's biomass overtaking via Absorption hax (with a similar method to how General Randall cut off his own arm to avoid Elizabeth Greene from infecting him with her hand scratching his arm), which could be one of the key factors to how this matchup would not be a stomp.

However, even assuming Mercer is cautious enough of Heller's own Resistance Negation Absorption due to "resilient DNA" nonsense for Mercer to want to attempt to kill via superior Resistance Negation Absorption straight away... Heller could still run into trouble by Mercer's own Fusionism, Body Puppetry and Biological Manipulation such as Mercer fusing his biomass with Heller's body to manipulate his movements and hamper him. While Heller does indeed have "resilient DNA" to help resist the manipulation, it only ever took effect if such manipulations were used for lethal purposes (since earlier on, Mercer was able to manipulate Heller's arm, and it appeared to be effective as Mercer wasn't doing so to kill him), so Mercer would only need to use his manipulations for non-lethal purposes such as jacking Heller's movements to Mercer's whims to hold the edge against Heller (Heller can presumably counter this by preventing Mercer's biomass from touching him in the first place, through the method I've mentioned above) - this is not even taking into consideration of the fact that Mercer could use Biological Manipulation over vast distances, so Heller would have to hope for the best that Mercer is wary enough of Heller's "resilient DNA" to hesitate on using range-based Biological Manipulation on him.

In addition, due to this game-over screen and how Mercer said that "I'll tell Maya you died quick"... This also implies that if Heller gets beaten down into submission or unconsciousness (something which shouldn't happen to Mercer due to his own inhuman physiology as a literal sapient virus by the way), he can still die to the regular Absorption method without Resistance Negation (that is, if Blacklight shapeshifters gets weakened or heavily battered enough, their resistance to assimilation abilities being worn down), so even Heller's "resilient DNA" nonsense would not save him from that.

Superior Lifting Strength and Attack Potency for Mercer even without Musclemass:

If you've read the profiles of Alex Mercer and James Heller, you would see that Alex Mercer would still be able to physically overpower James Heller if Heller attempted to fight Mercer with the same Offensive powers (especially with Hammerfists).

So, even without Musclemass, Mercer could just thrash Heller around if he really wanted to.

However, if Mercer decides to use Musclemass... Then Mercer might as well ragdoll Heller all over the place whenever he wants.

With Musclemass, its non-upgraded state provides a 2x increase in AP and LS... While its upgraded state provides a 3x increase in AP and LS. So even without Devastators, Heller would have to deal with being tossed around (which Evolved comparable to Heller in AP and LS was already able to do by the way) and punted all over the place like some oversized volleyball.

This is not even taking into consideration that Devastators (which Mercer has not used in the final fight of the second game due to CiS and PiS by the way... Which is off for this matchup) can be amplified by Musclemass. All of the Devastators alone are considered to be much superior to even the fully-upgraded Musclemass as an Offensive Power (so Devastators should already be 3x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks)... But when Musclemass is used to amplify Devastators, it should also get that same multiplier, which could increase the AP of Devastator attacks to 6x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks or even 9x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks.

So if Mercer decides to pop out a Musclemass-amped Devastator (especially the Critical Pain Devastator) against Heller... Heller would find that his own excessive biomass would get depleted quicker than he would realise, and it would be a piece of cake for Mercer to weaken or heavily batter Heller down to absorb him the normal way (if, for some reason, Mercer was wary enough to not use Resistance Negation Absorption for some weird reason).

Notable speed advantage for Mercer:

In short bursts, Mercer could move quick enough to appear as a blur in Heller's perception (which is listed as "Flash Step" in the Notable Attacks/Techniques section of Mercer's profile for some reason), and if you look at the YouTube video of their final fight, Mercer evidently appears to glide across the floor with a blur via his speed.

Speed advantage for Mercer is obvious here, although the speed gap is admittedly not as wide as the strength gap between them (especially with Mercer using Musclemass for the strength gap).

Superior Defense/Durability for Mercer, especially with Armor ability:


Obviously, due to Mercer using Musclemass with the 3x AP boost, Mercer would evidently have to also be 3x more durable to not get hurt by the sheer AP of his attacks every time... And Mercer's defense/durability would get increased even more with Armor ability (which Mercer never used in the final fight of Prototype 2 for plot reasons by the way).

With Armor ability, Heller would hardly be able to damage Mercer at all, and it would become much more difficult for Heller to wear down Mercer's excessive biomass reserves... Making it that much harder to weaken or heavily batter Mercer for Absorption.

It won't be impossible for Heller to damage Mercer and wear him down though, since Mercer only be over 3x more durable than Heller's normal attacks (and Heller would need to use Devastators to damage Mercer in a similar manner to how Heller's normal attacks would damage non-Armour Mercer)... He just might as well be dealing chip damage to Mercer the entire time Mercer has Armor form on, but can still eventually wore Mercer's biomass down, so it won't technically be a stomp. XD

Much greater skill and intelligence for Mercer:

Perhaps the most notable advantage for Mercer which Heller is the most disadvantaged in. Heller... He is not portrayed as a particularly intelligent person, such as when he is stated to be a "brute" by one of the Evolved and being stated as lacking formal education by them... Along with his complete inability to use computers despite the fact that he should've have the memories and minds of scientists that should have used such before.

If anything, having Heller being classified with possessing "Average" intelligence is being generous here. XD

Meanwhile, if you look at Alex Mercer's profile... It is very obvious that, especially with the mind and memories of the original Alexander J. Mercer, Blacklight Mercer would be far more intelligent than Heller himself - he can outwit Heller during the fight, think circles around Heller, and execute a bunch of strategies that Heller just can't counter or evade with his brutish mindset. This is not even taking into consideration that Heller has absorbed at most a few dozens of people, where Mercer has absorbed at least a thousand or more... Obviously, several thousands minds > at most, a few dozens of minds. So Mercer outsmarts via both quality and quantity of minds.

In addition, skill is very obviously in Mercer's favour - If you look at all the moments when the player (as Heller) tried to fight Mercer with the same offensive powers, he just counteracts Heller as if Heller was some amateur (which, if you look at Mercer's intelligence and skill in comparison, Heller probably might as well be even with all those Evolved he absorbed). With PiS and CiS being off, along with SBA State of mind, Mercer would probably outskill Heller in a similar manner even when using different Offensive powers with Heller's plot armour no longer protecting him in this matchup.

Heck, Mercer has experience of defeating an opponent significantly superior to him physically (such as the Supreme Hunter or the Supreme Hybrid) two times. For Heller... The best Heller did was fight against Goliaths, who are much less intelligent than the Supreme Hunter (Supreme Hunter has at least human-level intelligence, whereas Goliaths are mainly just animalistic in mindset and intelligence), and even then it was not stated that the strength gap between Goliaths and Heller is as wide as the gap between Mercer and the Supreme Hunter/Hybrid is.

So with Mercer's skill in triumphing against physically superior opponents such as the Supreme Hunter/Hybrid, using that skill to defeat physically inferior opponents such as End-Game Heller would be a piece of cake for him.


Or in short:

TLDR; The odds are too stacked against Heller. Mercer is stronger than Heller (both in AP and LS in baseline strength, and even more so with Musclemass), faster than Heller, more durable than Heller, is more haxed in combat than Heller, is smarter than Heller, and is most importantly much more skilled than Heller.

Prototype 2 End-Game Mercer just beats Heller to a pulp, absorb whatever is left over of Heller, and then proceeds with his plan of infecting all of Humanity and evolving them into Blacklight Infected.

(If you can't tell already, I'm obviously voting for Mercer here).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Mercer slaps the absolute **** out of Heller FRA, especially if he decides to just keep summoning infected fliers to his location like in his fight and have Heller waste Biomass on Devastators non-stop or even worse keep summoning them, absorbing them and then spamming his own Devastators repeatedly.

 

[Patates]

Pekala, James Heller'ın Prototip 2 Sonu (veya "Oyun Sonu") anahtarı kullanıldığında, CIS ve PIS kapalıyken... Ve with the SBA State of mind, I would say the odds are too heavily stacked against James Heller to the extent that this will become a clear decisive victory for Alex Mercer (but would not be a stomp because of a few factors that gives Heller at least a bit of chance).

İşte nedeni:

Mercer için geçerli hax ile daha iyi mücadele:

Mercer, enfekte hedefleri hax yoluyla etkilemeye yönelik, Heller'in Blacklight Enfeksiyonu dışında olduğundan daha iyi yeteneklere sahiptir... Direnç Negasyonuna sahip olan Mercer'in Emilimi gibi (Evrimleşmişlerin sahip olması gereken asimilasyon yeteneklerine karşı dirençlerin tamamen üstesinden gelmek yoluyla). Heller aynı zamanda Soğurma konusunda da Direnç Olumsuzluğuna sahipken, Heller'ınki yalnızca savunma amaçlı olduğunu gösterdi ( Mercer'in elini yalnızca Mercer onu Biyolojik Manipülasyon ve Vücut Kuklacılığı yoluyla öldürmeye çalıştığında dokunarak emdi ve bu başarıyı bir daha asla tekrarlamadı) ) Mercer'in kendi Direnç Olumsuzluğu Emilimi hem saldırgan hem de saldırgan olarak kullanılabilirken is able to absorb the entirety of multiple targets (where as Heller has only shown to absorb parts of a single target, such as only their hand).

Mercer hiçbir zaman olay örgüsü nedeniyle Heller'ı doğrudan oyuna dahil etmeye çalışmamış olsa da, bu eşleşmenin koşulları nedeniyle hiçbir şey Mercer'i, Direnç Olumsuzluğu nedeniyle Heller'a dokunduğu andan itibaren Heller'ı absorbe etmeye çalışmaktan alıkoyamaz - ancak Heller kadar zeki değildir. Heller'ın, 8 Evrimleşmiş'in dokunma yoluyla Mercer tarafından absorbe edildiğini açıkça gördüğü ve Heller'ın bile şokunu dile getirdiği göz önüne alındığında, Heller Prototip 2'de tasvir ediliyor. at Mercer absorbing the Evolved... We can assume that Heller at least knows enough basic strategy to avoid being directly touched by Mercer, and with Heller severing his own limbs to avoid Mercer's biomass overtaking via Absorption hax (with a similar method to how General Randall cut off his own arm to avoid Elizabeth Greene from infecting him with her hand scratching his arm), which could be one of the key factors to how this matchup would not be a stomp.

Bununla birlikte, Mercer'in "esnek DNA" saçmalığı nedeniyle Heller'in kendi Direnç Olumsuzluğu Emilimi konusunda yeterince ihtiyatlı olduğunu varsaysak bile, Mercer'in üstün Direnç Olumsuzluğu Emilimi yoluyla hemen öldürme girişiminde bulunmak istemesi... Heller'in başı yine de Mercer'in kendi Füzyonizmi nedeniyle belaya girebilir. Mercer'in hareketlerini manipüle etmek ve onu engellemek için kendi biyokütlesini Heller'in vücuduyla birleştirmesi gibi Vücut Kuklacılığı ve Biyolojik Manipülasyon. While Heller does indeed have "resilient DNA" to help resist the manipulation, it only ever took effect if such manipulations were used for lethal purposes (since earlier on, Mercer was able to manipulate Heller's arm, and it appeared to be effective as Mercer wasn't doing so to kill him), so Mercer would only need to use his manipulations for non-lethal purposes such as jacking Heller's movements to Mercer's whims to hold the edge against Heller (Heller can presumably counter this by preventing Mercer's biomass from touching him in the first place, through the method I've mentioned above) - this is not even taking into consideration of the fact that Mercer could use Biological Manipulation over vast distances, so Heller would have to hope for the best that Mercer is wary enough of Heller's "resilient DNA" to hesitate on using range-based Biological Manipulation on him.

Buna ek olarak, bu oyun sonu ekranı ve Mercer'in "Maya'ya çabuk öldüğünü söyleyeceğim" demesi nedeniyle ... Bu aynı zamanda Heller'ın teslim olması veya bilincini kaybetmesi durumunda (Mercer'ın başına gelmemesi gereken bir şey) anlamına da gelir. Bu arada, kelimenin tam anlamıyla akıllı bir virüs olarak kendi insanlık dışı fizyolojisi nedeniyle), Direnç Olumsuzlaması olmadan normal Emilim yöntemiyle hala ölebilir (yani, eğer Kara Işık şekil değiştiricileri yeterince zayıflarsa veya ağır bir şekilde hırpalanırsa, asimilasyon yeteneklerine karşı dirençleri yıpranır) ), yani Heller'in "dayanıklı DNA'sı" saçmalığı bile onu bundan kurtaramayacaktı.

Kas Kütlesi Olmasa Bile Mercer'in Üstün Kaldırma Gücü ve Saldırı Gücü :

Alex Mercer ve James Heller'ın profillerini okuduysanız, Heller, Mercer'la aynı Saldırı güçleriyle (özellikle Çekiç Yumruklarla) dövüşmeye kalkışırsa Alex Mercer'in hala James Heller'ı fiziksel olarak alt edebileceğini görürsünüz.

So, even without Musclemass, Mercer could just thrash Heller around if he really wanted to.

However, if Mercer decides to use Musclemass... Then Mercer might as well ragdoll Heller all over the place whenever he wants.

With Musclemass, its non-upgraded state provides a 2x increase in AP and LS... While its upgraded state provides a 3x increase in AP and LS. So even without Devastators, Heller would have to deal with being tossed around (which Evolved comparable to Heller in AP and LS was already able to do by the way) and punted all over the place like some oversized volleyball.

This is not even taking into consideration that Devastators (which Mercer has not used in the final fight of the second game due to CiS and PiS by the way... Which is off for this matchup) can be amplified by Musclemass. All of the Devastators alone are considered to be much superior to even the fully-upgraded Musclemass as an Offensive Power (so Devastators should already be 3x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks)... But when Musclemass is used to amplify Devastators, it should also get that same multiplier, which could increase the AP of Devastator attacks to 6x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks or even 9x the AP of Mercer's normal attacks.

So if Mercer decides to pop out a Musclemass-amped Devastator (especially the Critical Pain Devastator) against Heller... Heller would find that his own excessive biomass would get depleted quicker than he would realise, and it would be a piece of cake for Mercer to weaken or heavily batter Heller down to absorb him the normal way (if, for some reason, Mercer was wary enough to not use Resistance Negation Absorption for some weird reason).

Notable speed advantage for Mercer:

In short bursts, Mercer could move quick enough to appear as a blur in Heller's perception (which is listed as "Flash Step" in the Notable Attacks/Techniques section of Mercer's profile for some reason), and if you look at the YouTube video of their final fight, Mercer evidently appears to glide across the floor with a blur via his speed.

Speed advantage for Mercer is obvious here, although the speed gap is admittedly not as wide as the strength gap between them (especially with Mercer using Musclemass for the strength gap).

Superior Defense/Durability for Mercer, especially with Armor ability:


Obviously, due to Mercer using Musclemass with the 3x AP boost, Mercer would evidently have to also be 3x more durable to not get hurt by the sheer AP of his attacks every time... And Mercer's defense/durability would get increased even more with Armor ability (which Mercer never used in the final fight of Prototype 2 for plot reasons by the way).

With Armor ability, Heller would hardly be able to damage Mercer at all, and it would become much more difficult for Heller to wear down Mercer's excessive biomass reserves... Making it that much harder to weaken or heavily batter Mercer for Absorption.

It won't be impossible for Heller to damage Mercer and wear him down though, since Mercer only be over 3x more durable than Heller's normal attacks (and Heller would need to use Devastators to damage Mercer in a similar manner to how Heller's normal attacks would damage non-Armour Mercer)... He just might as well be dealing chip damage to Mercer the entire time Mercer has Armor form on, but can still eventually wore Mercer's biomass down, so it won't technically be a stomp. XD

Much greater skill and intelligence for Mercer:

Perhaps the most notable advantage for Mercer which Heller is the most disadvantaged in. Heller... He is not portrayed as a particularly intelligent person, such as when he is stated to be a "brute" by one of the Evolved and being stated as lacking formal education by them... Along with his complete inability to use computers despite the fact that he should've have the memories and minds of scientists that should have used such before.

If anything, having Heller being classified with possessing "Average" intelligence is being generous here. XD

Meanwhile, if you look at Alex Mercer's profile... It is very obvious that, especially with the mind and memories of the original Alexander J. Mercer, Blacklight Mercer would be far more intelligent than Heller himself - he can outwit Heller during the fight, think circles around Heller, and execute a bunch of strategies that Heller just can't counter or evade with his brutish mindset. This is not even taking into consideration that Heller has absorbed at most a few dozens of people, where Mercer has absorbed at least a thousand or more... Obviously, several thousands minds > at most, a few dozens of minds. So Mercer outsmarts via both quality and quantity of minds.

In addition, skill is very obviously in Mercer's favour - If you look at all the moments when the player (as Heller) tried to fight Mercer with the same offensive powers, he just counteracts Heller as if Heller was some amateur (which, if you look at Mercer's intelligence and skill in comparison, Heller probably might as well be even with all those Evolved he absorbed). With PiS and CiS being off, along with SBA State of mind, Mercer would probably outskill Heller in a similar manner even when using different Offensive powers with Heller's plot armour no longer protecting him in this matchup.

Heck, Mercer has experience of defeating an opponent significantly superior to him physically (such as the Supreme Hunter or the Supreme Hybrid) two times. For Heller... The best Heller did was fight against Goliaths, who are much less intelligent than the Supreme Hunter (Supreme Hunter has at least human-level intelligence, whereas Goliaths are mainly just animalistic in mindset and intelligence), and even then it was not stated that the strength gap between Goliaths and Heller is as wide as the gap between Mercer and the Supreme Hunter/Hybrid is.

So with Mercer's skill in triumphing against physically superior opponents such as the Supreme Hunter/Hybrid, using that skill to defeat physically inferior opponents such as End-Game Heller would be a piece of cake for him.


Or in short:

TLDR; The odds are too stacked against Heller. Mercer is stronger than Heller (both in AP and LS in baseline strength, and even more so with Musclemass), faster than Heller, more durable than Heller, is more haxed in combat than Heller, is smarter than Heller, and is most importantly much more skilled than Heller.

Prototype 2 End-Game Mercer just beats Heller to a pulp, absorb whatever is left over of Heller, and then proceeds with his plan of infecting all of Humanity and evolving them into Blacklight Infected.

(If you can't tell already, I'm obviously voting for Mercer here).

From a narrative standpoint, we know that Mercer has accomplished feats like surviving a nuclear bomb and single-handedly defeating a military base, and we also know that the more entities Alex absorbs, the stronger the virus becomes. 2 main viruses (possibly 3), sentinal and elizabethi. We know that he swallowed an entire city, it would be ridiculous for someone with such high achievements to lose to James...


I completely agree with what you wrote.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I completely agree with what you wrote.

Also, the rules actually allow even the OP/Thread Starter to vote for a character that they believe would win in a Versus thread.

So if you want to vote for a character winning (e.g. Alex Mercer in this case), just send a reply that you vote for that character for a particular reason (if you want to use the reasons that other users have already used, you typically say "[character name] for reasons above" or "[character name] FRA"), and it would count for deciding a character to be the winner.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.