Unofficial Powers and Abilities Addition Thread 4

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I since have. Yes, I should have done it all in one.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination There's a difference between having specific definitions that describes their respective powers and specific powers in general.

If you don't make the definition of the power specific, then unnecessary amounts of constant confusion of what it really means would happen much easier and sooner.

Vague definitions of powers will basically lead to something like this:

• Transmutation = Manipulation = Modification

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

That's what it's meant to be, though. You could have power amplification as a sub-type, but modification is a good description for what it does. It modifies powers.

It's already plenty specific.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination No, not really. Yeah, Power Amplification can and is a sub-type of Power Modification but that does not apply for Transmutation & Power Manipulation because they have nothing to do with amplifying powers either.

Transmutation & Power Manipulation is specific too and they are already proven to have their own pages with the several differences of how these powers works from other powers.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

If the user of power manipulation isn't bound by conservation of power, then they could do that. Even a user who is could do so by drawing from other sources.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination Just because Power Manipulation is bound to that in some form (mainly the first part of it), doesn't automatically make it the same power.

Unless you're telling me something similar like generating kinetic energy and generating energy in a form of heat which both originates from the human body is exactly the same power because they are both bound by the conservation of power.

 

[Abstractions]

I'm proposing something that can serve as an expansion on Type 7 Immortality and what it actually means for specific characters:

Undead Physiology

Opinions and critique would be appreciated.

 

[Antoniofer]

Heh, I see physiologies like the combination of a bunch of powers, but I'm mostly neutral.

 

[The_Smashor]

That sort of power is far too verse-specific.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Yeah, you don't really know much from just "X physiology", the powers vary heavily on verse, and even the standard stuff for a creature can be completely different. The underlying connection between members of these isn't even really a power, it's just a trait. Two reanimated undead or vampires don't need to have anything in common other than the fact that we call them undead. Even spiritual undead are sometimes fully corporeal. This wouldn't really add anything to a page, because it's not really a power.

Also, vampires in particular doesn't work as a category, since there isn't even really an underlying principle to them, just a name. If you go with some of the more standard portrayals they're just reanimated undead, while in fantasy settings they often end up more like an actual species than an undead.

 

[Abstractions]

That sort of power is far too verse-specific.

Things that apply to most user of Type 7 are too verse specific? I gave a ton of examples so this is evidently wrong.

Yeah, you don't really know much from just "X physiology", the powers vary heavily on verse, and even the standard stuff for a creature can be completely different. The underlying connection between members of these isn't even really a power, it's just a trait. Two reanimated undead or vampires don't need to have anything in common other than the fact that we call them undead. Even spiritual undead are sometimes fully corporeal. This wouldn't really add anything to a page, because it's not really a power.

I need examples of ghosts being physical that aren't demonic in some way, shape or form.

Said traits are common throughout media, name me some reanimated characters that have a physical response to pain or get tired that aren't subject to an infection, rather than being the deceased.

Vampires are debatable, and can be treated on a case by case basis, there are vampires that fit this category and some that don't, that can be said for a ton of things.

Heh, I see physiologies like the combination of a bunch of powers, but I'm mostly neutral.

There's nothing wrong with streamlining abilities if it means things are more condensed, which is direction we are slowly deciding to take. (And unlike verse-specific things like Servant Physiology, this could be applied anywhere)

Undead aren't represented in the best way here as the only thing we acknowledge them with is Type 7 and that doesn't tell us much, having a page that could link from Type 7 is hardly a negative.

 

[Agnaa]

Said traits are common throughout media, name me some reanimated characters that have a physical response to pain or get tired that aren't subject to an infection, rather than being the deceased.

I don't know a ton of media so my examples are pretty limited. Yotsugi Ononoki is a reanimated corpse that doesn't need air and can't get sick, but still has a pain response. It's unknown if she can get tired or not.

Koyomi Araragi, a vampire from the same verse that gets killed and resurrected later, isn't resistant to pain, has a small amount of resistance to disease through Regenerationn, still needs to sleep, eat, breathe, and doesn't have infinite stamina.

Sonny is a zombie who's still vulnerable to toxins and disease, who still feels pain, and I believe he still needs to sleep and lacks infinite stamina.

And unlike verse-specific things like Servant Physiology, this could be applied anywhere

But the good thing about verse-specific pages is that they're perfectly accurate for their verse.

Pages like Inorganic Physiology seem better for this, since they're powers that are much closer to universal and logically follow from the characters' state of being, rather than powers that are only listed because they exist in a lot of verses.

 

[Abstractions]

The minority shouldn't dictate the norm, and again, vampirism is disputable as it varies much on interpretation.

I don't know much on Monogatari so I won't attempt to argue with that one.

Sonny is a bizarre instance, as he logically shouldn't be effected by toxins as he is for all intents and purposes dead, his organs do not function.

 

[Agnaa]

Blahblah said "the powers vary heavily depending on verse".

So you said "They're common, name me some exceptions".

And so I named some exceptions :v

I'm very very very knowledgeable on Monogatari, so if there's any finer questions you want to ask I'll be able to answer them.

I also don't think that zombies necessarily have their organs non-functioning, I don't really hear that being mentioned so it shouldn't be the default. At best I'd grant that their organs commonly don't function at full capacity, which doesn't have an obvious logically deducible impact on the effectiveness of toxins.

 

[Abstractions]

Yeah but there are always exceptions to the norm, but it doesn't discount everything else.

Well, the only exception to organ function ever has been the brain, being disemboweled or being deprived of blood has never been an issue for the undead but removing the head has always been the remedy, but this doesn't apply to skeletons as they completely lack organs.

Undead vary quite a lot and I feel a comprehensive page to highlight important things about them would be helpful, I wasn't implying the page is perfection and was pushing for its application, but rather hoping for assistance in making it better.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd say it has, I feel like I've seen tons of undead in fiction die from injuries that aren't to the brain. I also feel like I've seen undead-type beings that can use stomach bile as a weapon, or that eat food (zombies wanting brains, etc.) which is evidence that their digestive systems function.

Sure, I don't have super strong feelings either way for the page being added or rejected, but I wanted to give my comment on these specific points.

 

[Abstractions]

I'd say it has, I feel like I've seen tons of undead in fiction die from injuries that aren't to the brain. I also feel like I've seen undead-type beings that can use stomach bile as a weapon, or that eat food (zombies wanting brains, etc.) which is evidence that their digestive systems function.

Sure, I don't have super strong feelings either way for the page being added or rejected, but I wanted to give my comment on these specific points.

My page tackles undead and not the infected, as those are different things. Also, the whole "brain" eating thing doesn't necessarily mean their digestive systems function, Titans eat people but digestion doesn't actually happen and they just throw it up.

It's also never been the case of needing food, the only instance I can recall where an actual zombie spoke on the subject is because those specific zombies ate to cope with their bodies physically rotting away.

I appreciate your inquiry, as I wasn't hoping for an echo chamber.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antonio There's a list of responses I mentioned to you a while ago.

 

[Antoniofer]

To be honest, I lost track of this thread long ago. But from what baraely recall, it would be fine to Imperceptibility or Concealment, as Stealth Mastery would be the real life equivalent, and the formers would cover stuff like conceal from powers like psychometry and life-force detection without the need to hide from conventional senses.

And if creating a Innate Capability power allows user to stop creating a power for any profesion, then I'm fine with it.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antonio Here's what I mentioned to you + added responses:

• Evolution may be a part of Biological Manipulation in a way but still different from it.
• I already mentioned about Power Modification to @Unshakeable and to several other people.
• Imperceptibility (can't be preceived by the 5 human senses) would be needed and separated into types. which Inodorosity, Ingustability (having no taste as mentioned by @Crzer) and Inaudibility are considered as good examples of it since they fall under that power.
• I also wish dividing powers into types weren't a thing too but if we don't do that, superpowers would be too complex to understand without separating any possible differences that it may have. Also, dividing sub-powers into types under 1 power reduces the creation of specific powers anyway.
• Paradox Defiance might need its own page and this pretty much gives you the first 3 or 4 types of Acausality by default, according to what the ability allows you to do as explained on the page.
• Paradox Existence may be a part of Acausality but actually a different power & there's multiple types of it.
• Undead Pulse can be named to Perfect Undead (being both alive & dead) and we really need that on the Immortality page since Undead is already a thing, so should Perfect Undead.
• Also, Deathless Immortality should be changed to "Amortality" (which means neither dead or alive) tbh.
• Innate Capability would be needed as well.
• Platform Creation =/= Glyph Creation, using glyphs to create platforms is a type of method of using this ability & there's several different things glyphs can do but Platform Creation can't do, it does not automatically mean they are the same.
• Trapping Intuition would be the right term since just having the knowledge of being capable of doing it, doesn't automatically mean you mastered it and this applies to all other skills based on having the knowledge to do it.
• Language Assimilation should be a separate power as you're gathering knowledge of how to speak the language of the person you're using this ability on through physical contact.
• I agree with separating -lism (ex: Zoolinguilism) abilities into types under 1 power.
• Concealment would involve not being seen through ESP (Extrasensory Perception)-types of powers, which is pretty unique and I almost thought there was no difference to that from imperceptibility.
• Stealth Mastery technically does not fall under that, it depends on the method you use for stealth which does.
• I'm pretty sure Innate Capability does not allow you to do that tho.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ok, that do help a little to remember, but not enough, so here a quick opinion:

• Evolution is either Biological Manipulation or Time Manipulation.
• You can go with Imperceptibility (or Concealment, call it as people consider it better), and I also agree that Stealth Mastery shouldn't be used to cover that.
• Rather than dividing powers into types, just but possible applications, if we write down types users will be more focused in forcely fitting the character's powers into the types, rather than explaining the power individually.
• Neutral about this Paradox Defiance/Existance.
• If want to change the name of a power better consult it with the staff.
• If Innate Capability (or whatever name people decide to call it) is a thing, then we do not need to worry about Trap Intuition/Mastery and similar things, just write the skill and redirect it to the page.
• The form in what Glyph Creation is described it sounds like simply Plaform Creation, so at least for me its the same.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antonio

• Evolution cannot be caused by Time Manipulation as Time affects the growth of your age, not your genetics unlike what Biological Manipulation is actually capable of doing.
• We can have both, Imperceptibility is based on not being perceived by the 5 senses whereas Concealment is based on not being perceived by ESP powers.
• You do have a good point, I noticed that some of them have enough information to have their own pages.
• Okay then, when the time comes, Paradox Defiance and Paradox Existence will have further elaboration on what we should do with them in a later time
• They are probably busy with other things at the moment, so the name change to Amortality might have to wait.
• I guess we're all good with Innate Capability then.
• Platform Creation needs its own page to avoid confusion and a Symbol Magic page for Glyph Creation since Symbols includes Emblems, Runes, Inscriptions and even Glyphs.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

Does Emotion manipulation or something exist?

 

[Antoniofer]

Empathic Manipulation.

 

[Thelastmlg]

So what is the difference between paradox defiance and acausality type 1?

 

[Udlmaster]

Reflex manipulation would be interesting, I remember there being a spell in WoD that let someone influence another's instincts and reflexes, such as causing them to flinch, have their hair prick or is mess with their instincts in other ways.

 

[Theformofacast]

I think something like Skeleton Physiology would be a nice idea since some abilities are inherent in a character that is only a skeleton.

Some redundant abilities like resistance to blood, hair... or simply a Limited Biology Manipulation for the lack of body parts that at the target of these abilities.

And possibly, since some characters are not originally skeletons but what are left of their previous bodies (characters like Brook from One Piece), abilities like Longevity or even Immortality Type 1.

Edit: the idea was brought up here, btw.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Thelastmlg Paradox Defiance is basically a power that allows you to ignore/be immune to specific types of paradoxes rather than naturally having immunity to those paradoxes like Paradox Existence would do.

@Udlmaster That sounds kind of interesting to have here.

@Theformofacast Yeah, we should have an Undead Physiology page where Skeleton Physiology can be added on it.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

@The God Of Procrastination Just because Power Manipulation is bound to that in some form (mainly the first part of it), doesn't automatically make it the same power.

Unless you're telling me something similar like generating kinetic energy and generating energy in a form of heat which both originates from the human body is exactly the same power because they are both bound by the conservation of power.

They are both Energy Manipulation. Technically, both are kinetic energy manipulation.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

For trap mastery, you can't not add this guy as an example

But what about the memes?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ohhh trap mastery! I misunderstood the ability.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Ohhh trap mastery! I misunderstood the ability.

That would fall under Social Influencing.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination Heat Energy and Kinetic Emergy may relate to each other as they are both forms of energy but they are still both different powers regardless.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Heat is just disordered force. Regardless, they still fall under the power Energy Manipulation.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination But also considered to be 2 different powers despite that.

Seriously though, you got to avoid this association fallacy you're doing when you're considering 2 powers to be exactly the same just because they sound similar but have actual differences.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I'm saying that they fall under the same power here.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination Ik and the other main powers I was previously explained the differences between them would still be different even when they both fall under 1 power.

 

[ChemistKyle89]

Technically speaking, Retrocognition, Clairvoyance, and Precognition are all subsets of Premonition. Retrocognition is perceiving the past. Clairvoyance is perceiving the present. Precognition is perceiving the future. There are various mediums that can be used to acquire said knowledge, ranging from: Psychometry (touching an object or person), Dreams, Crystal Gazing (via crystal balls), Scrying, Chiromancy (palm reading), Tasseomancy (reading tea leaves), Tarot Reading, Pool Gazing, Mirror Gazing and its subset Catoptromancy (using mirrors to spy on the present).

The Extendable Ears from Harry Potter would fall under a subset of Clairvoyance called Clairaudience (being able to hear things beyond your normal range).

A Building/Construction power would probably apply to characters like Tank Dempsey since they can build barriers quicker than a horde of zombies can tear them down. Trap Mastery could be a subset of Building/Construction.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

The characters would have what type(s) they have on their profiles. The point of the pages is to be broad enough to be useful much of the time.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@ChemistKyle Actually Premonition is a sub-type of Precognition, Retrocognition is its own thing besides being the opposite of Precog, Clairvoyance is that but its rather as a sub-type of ESP (Extrasensory Perception) in general, not Precognition or Premonition, which relates to future things.

Yeah, Psychometry involves doing that to know the condition of the object in the past, present and future. The rest of that stuff should fall under Divination, another power we need to have as a page to explain all of that.

That should be mentioned under ESP too. Seriously though, they should really acknowledge these sub-type powers just as much as the main power they fall under, I mean they give the real meaning to the main power's relevance after all.

Trap Intuition is one of those associated powers for that but yeah. In a way, it could be.