Unofficial Powers and Abilities Addition Thread 4

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa In order for it to be considered as weapon, they have to use supernatural means on the object or any non-physical thing they're using to work like one.

Otherwise its just throwing objects with perfect accuracy without having to use anything in a form of an actual weapon. Weapon Mastery is basically having full knowledge on a variety of ways to use an actual weapon but this does not automatically give you Superhuman Marksmanship as you are not guaranteed to have perfect aim in all of the weapons that you use.

I never said they needed to be at full hp for it to work & I mentioned other methods that can bypass that immunity.

There's 2 responses for you that talks about Power Manipulation and Elemental Intangibility.

 

[Agnaa]

You're correct that Weapon Mastery does not automatically give Superhuman Marksmanship. But Weapon Mastery also does not automatically give Superhuman Swordsmanship. All different forms of expertise with all different forms of weapon are part of Weapon Mastery, and this would include Superhuman Marksmanship. Thus, it does not need its own page.

I never said they needed to be at full hp for it to work & I mentioned other methods that can bypass that immunity.

OHKO immunity sounds like it only works on one-hit KOs, hence my assumption. And sorry, the stuff you edited in got edited in as/after I posted my message.

There's 2 responses for you that talks about Power Manipulation and Elemental Intangibility.

I had nothing to say to your response about Elemental Intangibility, since you were just agreeing with me and the topic was long settled. I'm not sure what post of mine you were responding to about Power Manipulation, even when searching through my old posts. Since I can't follow your logic, I can't comment further on it.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa I mean, the point of Superhuman Marksmanship allowing you to have perfect accuracy is through supernatural means.

All those forms of expertise that involves ultilizing variety of weapons without using supernatural abilities to have it would not include Superhuman Marksmanship but something similar to a far lesser extent that allows peak & enhanced human characters, for example, would get a lesser form of that ability instead.

My response to you in regards to Power Manipulation was:

• "From what I know about Power Manipulation, you don't get more powers from using this ability, which that will be Power Absorption + Power Mimicry (if you can use the stolen powers) in this case. The only thing you're doing with this ability is simply just controlling powers similar how Mind Control and other abilities based on controlling things usually works."

So having this ability on the wiki shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Agnaa]

Weapon Mastery through supernatural means is still Weapon Mastery, and is still listed as such on pages. I also wanna note that some forms of supernaturally enhanced accuracy would be Probability Manipulation or homing attacks.

I know what your response IRT Power Manipulation is, but I don't know what I said for you to respond that way.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa That logic only applies if the character uses supernatural means and would be considered as an advanced version instead of a regular version of Weapon Mastery. It would also fall under Vector Manipulation too (and again, only applies if the character uses this ability for that) and its more like it has a homing effect due to your supernaturally enhanced line of sight that Superhuman Marksmanship gives you rather than using an ability to auto-aim your targets for you.

I was hearing about your disapproval about it and wanted to point out somethings of why it could still be added.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, that's what I said. Supernaturally-granted skill still falls under skill, and gives Weapon Mastery. Other supernatural forms of aim help can be Probability Manipulation, homing attacks, Enhanced Senses, Vector Manipulation.

If you wouldn't get more powers from Power Manipulation, under your definition of it, then it's kinda useless since it's already covered by Power Absorption, Power Mimicry, Power Nullification, Power Bestowal, and Power Modification.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Okay but regardless, that wouldn't disprove the idea of it being added and also, Superhuman Physical Characteristics is dependent on abilities like that anyway.

Power Mimicry copies powers either by seeing it being used once or using Power Absorption (which this method can last temporarily or permanently), which Power Manipulation wouldn't fall under since that ability is its own power. It definitely does not fall under Power Nullification and Power Bestowal, which aren't good examples. Lastly, Power Modification only alters & interferes with powers by only improving or worsening it, Power Manipulation has nothing to do with that at all.

 

[Agnaa]

We don't need new abilities for every single different niche way that a character can be above-normal-human. The ones we have already are more than enough.

Power Mimicry doesn't require seeing it used, but you're probably right that copying something wouldn't quite fall under manipulation, mb for including it.

It definitely does fall under nullification and bestowal. Power modification lets characters nullify or bestow abilities, right? How does power manipulation have nothing to do with modifying powers, nullifying them, or bestowing them? What do you think it does?

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Modification can also change the general function of a power.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa So I guess that would make it somehow perfectly acceptable give all characters "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if there are cases where they only have 1 type of this power then. It shouldn't take to long to see the problem in this.

So if you controlling something from someone, are you changing the quality of the power, stopping it from working, or giving your own powers to it?

• No, just because you can improve, weaken, or malfunction their powers, does that mean their powers is your powers? Of course not.

Its like how a normal human modifies a robot's powers since the powers the cyborg has cannot be learned by any human due to possessing the right physical capabilities that they alone can use.

• No, because then there would be no reason to control it in the first place and is the literal opposite of that.
• No, because how would just giving your powers to someone somehow grant auto-access to all of their powers from them in any way, shape or form? It's like donating your power to someone which some characters use this method to heal them and somehow by doing this, they can also control their powers? Just what? No, definitely not related to that in the slightest.

@The God Of Procrastination So if a normal human can change the function of the robot they created, does that also mean the human can do all the physically impossible things that only the robot can do then?

No, they clearly cannot.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

I mean like Hansode Shiranui or Cure Scarlet. Doing those things yourself is a seperate power, we call Power Mimicry. I believe that you are talking about cases where power is treated like a substance, can you confirm that before we proceed?

If they get whatever tech the robot uses to do that (maybe they make it using the same knowledge with which they modified it), and then use it themselves, then they can.

 

[Agnaa]

So I guess that would make it somehow perfectly acceptable give all characters "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if there are cases where they only have 1 type of this power then. It shouldn't take to long to see the problem in this.

We already do this and it's not seen as a problem. You don't need superhuman lifting strength to get Superhuman Physical Characteristics lifted. And regardless, your suggestion would go under Weapon Mastery, where Superhuman Marksmanship fits perfectly. As I said earlier, you don't need mastery over all weapons to have Weapon Mastery.

So if you controlling something from someone, are you changing the quality of the power, stopping it from working, or giving your own powers to it?

Yeah. You could do all of those things.

No, just because you can improve, weaken, or malfunction their powers, does that mean their powers is your powers? Of course not.

This sounds true but I don't see the point.

Its like how a normal human modifies a robot's powers since the powers the cyborg has cannot be learned by any human due to possessing the right physical capabilities that they alone can use.

No, because then there would be no reason to control it in the first place and is the literal opposite of that.

I don't understand what this response and comparison means.

No, because how would just giving your powers to someone somehow grant auto-access to all of their powers from them in any way, shape or form? It's like donating your power to someone which some characters use this method to heal them and somehow by doing this, they can also control their powers? Just what? No, definitely not related to that in the slightest.

Giving your powers to someone wouldn't grant auto-access to their powers unless the verse specified it worked that way, sure. I don't understand what's not related to what, and am having a hard time understanding what parts of my post you're responding to, or if you're even responding to mine.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Duality Manipulation doesn't have a page

 

[Udlmaster]

Duality Manipulation doesn't have a page

That would just be apart of Conceptual manipulation, the ability to affect Duality itself.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Okay, thanks.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa Never said it like that, my explanation is intended to mean that you can't automatically get "Superhuman Physical Characteristics" if you have a singular type of power that falls under it. So if you only have "Superhuman Strength" and that's it, then only that gets mentioned on the profile & not the category itself of where its found. Weapon Mastery is just having full knowledge about the weapon and how to use said weapon (either just one or several of them) in a variety of ways, never said you need to master all weapons to have that.

As for Superhuman Mark...actually, scratch that. I shouldn't even be naming it "Marksmanship" if it's mainly referring to ranged guns, no wonder it sounds very confusing for me explain that this entire time, so I'm going to use the term "Accuracy" instead of "Marksmanship" in general instead so I can explain this more better. It's more preferred this way.

Other than that, I think I begin to now understand your point about Marksmanship being a part of Weapon Mastery (which only refers to guns since you can't scope/aim from long distances away with melee weapons). As for Supernatural Accuracy, which involves both using objects as projectiles & abilities that can be used like projectiles and based on the character's accuracy of successfully hitting the target using 3 of the 5 senses (and yes, including ESP in some cases but you already knew that) to do this, even though that could be related to Weapon Mastery in a way, that type of accuracy would be specifically called Marksmanship for a specific group of weapons. In a way, I guess you can say that this would fall under Enhanced Senses.

No, you cannot as that requires a few extra steps and by a few extra steps, I mean having extra abilities that you need to have other than Power Manipulation alone. Changing how something works does not automatically mean you have control over it.

@Muchacho It would also be called Yin-Yang Manipulation and that's if we have it on the wiki but we don't yet. Also, read my response to @Udlmaster about duality/yin-yang manipulation.

Anyways, I have a response for you about one of things you mentioned earlier:

• That's called Air Jumping (also ability we need to have) & infinite air jumping would fall under psuedo-flight. As for the other ability you mentioned, that's Platform Creation.

@Udlmaster Duality/Yin-Yang Manipulation doesn't require you to affect conceptual dualities, so no it won't fall under that power.

 

[Agnaa]

If a character just has good aim, then you could do that sort of Weapon Mastery thing that you explained. Some characters have "Expert swordsma" listed on their profile, so you could write something like "Superhuman Accuracy".

If your definition of "Power Manipulation" is just "changing how powers work" then that would be Power Modification, something we already have a page for.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa

• Weapon Mastery = a form of intelligence
• Accuracy = quality of your precision in general

Marksmanship may always apply for Weapon Mastery using sight but for Superhuman Accuracy, it mainly involves not only using sight but also may include the other 2 senses such as hearing & smell (to know the exact location), which helps with accuracy and ESP, another thing that a lesser, but also regular, form of Weapon Mastery cannot do without this, without supernatural abilities, and without using any other senses besides sight.

Dude, I was clearly saying Power Modification =/= Power Manipulation in that statement and with examples also explaining why they are different things.

If you control powers from someone, then you can only use it against them. Power Manipulation doesn't allow you to change how they work or affect the quality of it without also having Power Modification, a separate power that a character must be mentioned to have first.

 

[Agnaa]

Weapon Mastery = a form of intelligence Accuracy = quality of your precision in general

I'd say that precision is done through skill, which is considered intelligence.

Dude, I was clearly saying Power Modification =/= Power Manipulation in that statement and with examples also explaining why they are different things.

And I clearly didn't understand on what basis you were saying that they're different.

If you control powers from someone, then you can only use it against them.

That isn't always true. That's one form of controlling powers.

Power Manipulation doesn't allow you to change how they work or affect the quality of it without also having Power Modification, a separate power that a character must be mentioned to have first.

Oh. I've always heard that sort of thing being called "Power Hijacking" or something like that. That idea's been brought up before, and people were sympathetic to it. Antoniofer suggested renaming Power Modification to Power Manipulation, and making Power Hijacking a subset of that. Both of these ideas make sense to me, but only considering Power Manipulation to be the hijacking part sounds really wack.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa Well actually, skill is rather more of ultizing the knowledge you have to perform a natural ability you can be capable of doing using said knowledge than intelligence, which involves how fast you can learn said knowledge in general but I don't want to get into that topic for now.

I mean, with Power Modification, you can make something like regular Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation, make someone's time Manipulation affect time in all 3 parts of an entire timeline, be able to control multiple minds instead of just one at a time (something that most people can't do with just mind control alone if there's cases where they need outside sources to use their abilities to this extent) and etc.

And you're still arguing that Power Manipulation alone can do all of that? Absolutely not in the slightest.

That is the main way of how Power Manipulation usually works, being used against someone. Controlling only your powers is a limitation, letting somone have control over it is Power Bestowal (which not every user can do b/c its a different separate ability), letting someone have control over it by syncing your body with your teammate to do the job for you is Synchronization (also a different separate ability that not every user can do) and etc. that involves a number of forms of Power Manipulation that requires you to also have a different ability that you must be stated and/or shown to have.

Well that's because Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation in a way (unlike Power Modification, which is more different) as that allows you to do this temporarily and can be used at any time once you have access to someone's powers & if you still maintain access to it. So it would be more preferred to have both Power Manipulation and Power Modification separately with their own pages.

Its like Possession, once you take over a body or something that can work like one, you have control over it but you can't make the possessed body any better or worse than it already is b/c the physical capabilities of the possessed body varies as it could either work in your benefit or give you more limitations than you would've had without it.

 

[Agnaa]

Well actually, skill is rather more of ultizing the knowledge you have to perform a natural ability you can be capable of doing using said knowledge than intelligence, which involves how fast you can learn said knowledge in general but I don't want to get into that topic for now.

For the sake of our pages, it's intelligence.

I mean, with Power Modification, you can make something like regular Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation, make someone's time Manipulation affect time in all 3 parts of an entire timeline, be able to control multiple minds instead of just one at a time (something that most people can't do with just mind control alone if there's cases where they need outside sources to use their abilities to this extent) and etc.

Power Modification can do a lot more than just change potency. Hansode Shiranui can change powers to be completely different ones, turning Kuudou Hinokage's strength ability into a speed ability, turning Zenkichi Hitoyoshi's ability to see through someone else's eyes into an ability that lets him see and surpass his own limits, etc.

And you're still arguing that Power Manipulation alone can do all of that? Absolutely not in the slightest.

With how I think of it, yeah. I don't think that Power Hijacking could do that. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the rest of the post, but it looks like you don't think Power Hijacking and Power Manipulation are the same thing.

Well that's because Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation in a way (unlike Power Modification, which is more different) as that allows you to do this temporarily and can be used at any time once you have access to someone's powers & if you still maintain access to it. So it would be more preferred to have both Power Manipulation and Power Modification separately with their own pages.

I don't see how these two things follow. "Power Hijacking allows you to do this temporarily and as long as you maintain access to the power, therefore Power Manip and Power Modification should have their own pages".

Its like Possession, once you take over a body or something that can work like one, you have control over it but you can't make the possessed body any better or worse than it already is b/c the physical capabilities of the possessed body varies as it could either work in your benefit or give you more limitations than you would've had without it.

As I said in my last post, if you want Power Hijacking to be its own things that's cool with me. Power Hijacking as a new page? Cool. Power Modification being renamed to Power Manipulation, and Power Hijacking being a subset of it? Also cool. Power Manipulation just being Power Hijacking? Not cool.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa

• Intelligence: "Peak Human" = one of the levels of Intelligence
• Knowledge: The description that goes with Intelligence, which involves explaining why the character is at that level of intelligence.

Once again, I did mention before I don't want to get too deep into it anyways.

Power Modification refers to supernatural abilities only, not statistics. The first thing you're currently describing here is Attribute Exchange and the other would be Eye Manipulation but a better version of it.

Power Hijacking is basically Power Manipulation but by force and I did mentioned that Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation earlier. The one I mainly disagree with being the same is Power Modification, which is different from both of those 2 abilities.

Basically what I'm saying is:

• Power Hijacking and Power Manipulation are similar abilities with Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation
• Make a separate page for Power Manipulation as its a completely different ability from Power Modification and no, this does not mean you have to remove or rename Power Modification.

I prefer Power Manipulation being its own thing, no reason to remove or rename Power Modification (that's clearly not what this is about and I never even propose the idea of doing that at all), and Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation is fine either way.

 

[Agnaa]

Intelligence: "Peak Human" = one of the levels of Intelligence. Knowledge: The description that goes with Intelligence, which involves explaining why the character is at that level of intelligence. Once again, I did mention before I don't want to get too deep into it anyways.

These are both part of the Intelligence section on the page, so I will stick with saying that, for the sake of our pages, it's intelligence. Does not going too deep into it mean that you're not interested in pursuing Superhuman Accuracy as a page any more?

Power Modification refers to supernatural abilities only, not statistics. The first thing you're currently describing here is Attribute Exchange and the other would be Eye Manipulation but a better version of it.

No. Given the context of the character it's Power Modification. Unless you wanna revise Hansode Shiranui's skill which is explicitly about modifying skills.

There are quite a few verses, like Medaka Box where Shiranui comes from, where statistics and physiology are treated the same way as supernatural skills and are affected the same way by abilities that copy/nullify/create/modify skills.

Also, we're not powerlisting wiki. We don't need individual powers for every niche superpower. We do not need a distinction for "Eye Manipulation".

Power Hijacking is basically Power Manipulation but by force and I did mentioned that Power Hijacking is more similar to Power Manipulation earlier. The one I mainly disagree with being the same is Power Modification, which is different from both of those 2 abilities.

The thing is I'd only agree that Power Hijacking is a subset of Power Manipulation if Power Manipulation included Power Nullification, Power Bestowal, Power Absorption, Power Modification as well as Power Hijacking. If it doesn't include those, I'm not sure what it's even meant to be.

I prefer Power Manipulation being its own thing, no reason to remove or rename Power Modification (that's clearly not what this is about and I never even propose the idea of doing that at all), and Power Hijacking being a subset of Power Manipulation is fine either way.

You never proposed that idea, but like I said, Antoniofer suggested it when this topic was brought up in past threads. If we're not having it include Power Modification, then I don't want Power Manipulation to have its own page and would rather just have Power Hijacking.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa I'm just explaining the differences, not implying that they should be separated but then again, I really don't want too get into that topic for now. As for Supernatural Accuracy, that should fall under Enhanced Senses instead while things like Marksmanship and the like would goes under Weapon Mastery.

No, the context of Power Modification is unrelated to Power Manipulation and saying that it is would also mean that a character has an extra power that they clearly was not stated or shown to be able to use, which is one of the most inaccurate ways of validating a character to possess certain powers.

For Hansode Shiranui's Power Modif...wait a minute. When you said that she "turns" a strength skill into a speed skill, isn't that a form of transmutation (changes the form/structure of something to make it different) but for powers? Power Modification only changes the quality of the powers (the power itself is never completely changed) while Power Transmutation changes the original power to a different power (which is actually what her ability is). Also no, I'm not suggesting a name change or anything that involves revising Power Modification, so don't be claiming that I am.

Examples (just in case you might get confused on the differences again):

• Power Modification = Heat Manipulation -> Absolute Hot Manipulation.

They are both still the same power, the only difference is that the latter is better than the former since changing the quality of the power changes the power into an improved version of it but not into a completely different one.

• Power Transmutation = Heat Manipulation -> Cold Manipulation or any other power that isn't Heat Manipulation.

The original ability is completely changed to something different and the changed ability works normally with no changes whatsoever to how the ability functions other than how its intended to work as any regular character would do with the ability.

Yeah, we may not be powerlisting wiki but we aren't the type of wiki to make people misunderstand & wrongfully explain the similarities and differences of how these powers properly work either, which is the reason why I'm helping you guys avoid being in that situation. Eye Manipulation is irrelevant to the main point of this and you brought an example which involves a character using that, not me.

Besides Power Hijacking being a subset to Power Manipulation, every other power you mentioned is excluded from this power as its meant to be its own power like how several of every control/manipulating-based powers are already considered of being such.

"You never proposed that idea..."

Yes, yes I did and it was several times in fact before you mentioned this. Power Manipulation is a better name than Power Hijacking as its straightforward and more easier to understand.

 

[Agnaa]

No, the context of Power Modification is unrelated to Power Manipulation and saying that it is would also mean that a character has an extra power that they clearly was not stated or shown to be able to use, which is one of the most inaccurate ways of validating a character to possess certain powers.

Not every character with a power needs every subset of that power. You can get heat manipulation for raising temperatures, and you can also get heat manipulation for lowering temperatures.

For Hansode Shiranui's Power Modif...wait a minute. When you said that she "turns" a strength skill into a speed skill, isn't that a form of transmutation (changes the form/structure of something to make it different) but for powers? Power Modification only changes the quality of the powers (the power itself is never completely changed) while Power Transmutation changes the original power to a different power (which is actually what her ability is).

wtf lmao. Just call that Power Modification jesus christ dude. That name works fine for it. We don't need a million different pages for all the extremely specific ways to interact with every substance. We don't need Concept Transmutation and Destruction and Modification and Creation and Erasure, we'll live by just having Conceptual Manipulation. There's no need to distinguish between Power Modification and "Power Transmutation".

Also no, I'm not suggesting a name change or anything that involves revising Power Modification, so don't be claiming that I am.

I never ever claimed that you did. Stop making claims about me that are false.

Yeah, we may not be powerlisting wiki but we aren't the type of wiki to make people misunderstand & wrongfully explain the similarities and differences of how these powers properly work either, which is the reason why I'm helping you guys avoid being in that situation.

I don't understand what you're saying here. There aren't really objective names for superpowers. It really doesn't feel like you're "clearing things up" and enlightening us, it just sounds like you're trying to enforce your headcanon powers like "Power Transmutation" and "Eye Manipulation" on us when such things are wholly unnecessary.

Eye Manipulation is irrelevant to the main point of this and you brought an example which involves a character using that, not me.

Eye Manipulation is not an ability that a character on this wiki has. We are not the powerlisting wiki. Anything which you can call "eye manipulation" is much better described by an ability that already exists.

Besides Power Hijacking being a subset to Power Manipulation, every other power you mentioned is excluded from this power as its meant to be its own power like how several of every control/manipulating-based powers are already considered of being such.

That is not at all true. Conceptual Manipulation covers creation, destruction, modification, erasure, etc.

"You never proposed that idea..." Yes, yes I did and it was several times in fact before you mentioned this. Power Manipulation is a better name than Power Hijacking as its straightforward and more easier to understand.

What? You just told me that you never proposed an idea. I agreed that you didn't, and now you're telling me that you did?!?

Power Manipulation isn't more straightforward if it doesn't include all ways of manipulating powers, and only actually describes hijacking them. Hijacking is more straightforward because that's what it does.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa The problem with this claim you're still not understanding is that Power Manipulation is not in any way, shape, or form, to even be considered remotely as a subset of Power Modification, which is a separate and entirely different power. Raising temperatures alone is only Heat Manipulation, yes but being also capable of lowering heat, that's when it becomes Thermal Manipulation at that point.

Yeah, and let's call Transmutation "Modification" instead in this case b/c misinterpretating how these powers actually works is the best solution rather than simply taking the time to understand the important differences between them & not just outright ignoring that completely despite how this method help prevent overcomplications much easier. Seriously no, even these 2 powers are different from each other and you need to understand that. Also, did I not already just explained an example of how they are clearly different? Pretty sure I did.

Never said you mentioned that and your 2nd statement is exactly what I'm saying to you b/c you tend to do that sometimes.

That's no excuse to mix powers by placing them under completely unrelated ones lmao. You should already realize how more complicated it gets when you do that and Power Manipulation shouldn't be one of them. Other than that, if we have powers like Conceptual Manipulation but not Power Manipulation & you're giving subjective reasons why that can't be added, then clearly you're treating powers like this as an exception and that's unacceptable. If we treat Conceptual Manipulation as its own power with associated abilities under it, then there's no reason not to do it for Power Manipulation too.

I can't imagine how would I say something made up that already exists and established to be a common power in fiction while you, however, forgetting the fact that a majority of these powers directly comes from that wiki...yikes, I'm honesty confused how contradicting your logic sounds when you said that. I know Eye Manipulation isn't on this wiki yet, sure but its still a thing in fiction regardless & I'm not suggesting that power to be added here yet and seeing the vague types on Body Manipulation, which could be described more better tbh, I'm not surprised by how it isn't.

Just because it doesn't exist in this wiki does not mean it isn't an actual power which several characters were shown to be able to use before in some form and this misconception some of you guys still believe should never be mentioned at all.

Power Manipulation could cover creation, destruction, and erasure exactly like Conceptual Manipulation in its own page (seriously tho, there's literally nothing wrong with doing that) while also excluding specific powers like Power Modification and every unrelated power from it.

I mean, the main reason why I bought up Power Manipulation in the first place to you because you disagreed on the idea of this power having its own separate page. Yes it is straightforward like Mind Control is. Power Manipulation does have many uses like all other control/manipulation-based abilities have, so that point is invaild or unless you're telling me that powers like mind control is only just about hijacking minds and that's it.

 

[Agnaa]

The problem with this claim you're still not understanding is that Power Manipulation is not in any way, shape, or form, to even be considered remotely as a subset of Power Modification, which is a separate and entirely different power.

Yeah, Power Manip isn't a subset of Power Modification. But Power Modification, imo, should be a subset of Power Manipulation, unless you have another definition of Power Manipulation to give me.

Raising temperatures alone is only Heat Manipulation, yes but being also capable of lowering heat, that's when it becomes Thermal Manipulation at that point.

Nope, they're still both Heat Manipulation. We don't need a Thermal Manipulation page.

Yeah, and let's call Transmutation "Modification" instead in this case b/c misinterpretating how these powers actually works is the best solution rather than simply taking the time to understand the important differences between them & not just outright ignoring that completely despite how this method help prevent overcomplications much easier. Seriously no, even these 2 powers are different from each other and you need to understand that. Also, did I not already just explained an example of how they are clearly different? Pretty sure I did.

They're different in the same way that creating fire and bending existing fire are different. They're both applications of Fire Manipulation. Making one power weaker or stronger, adding or removing limitations to it, and turning one power into a different power are all different applications of Power Modification. We don't need whole new abilities for all these different applications.

Never said you mentioned that and your 2nd statement is exactly what I'm saying to you b/c you tend to do that sometimes.

You did say I mentioned that, right here.

That's no excuse to mix powers by placing them under completely unrelated ones lmao. You should already realize how more complicated it gets when you do that and Power Manipulation shouldn't be one of them.

They are related, and doing things this way makes things simpler.

Other than that, if we have powers like Conceptual Manipulation but not Power Manipulation & you're giving subjective reasons why that can't be added, then clearly you're treating powers like this as an exception and that's unacceptable. If we treat Conceptual Manipulation as its own power with associated abilities under it, then there's no reason not to do it for Power Manipulation too.

I've already told you multiple times that I'd be fine for Power Manipulation to be added, if it's considered to be all ways of manipulating powers, including Power Modification, Power Bestowal, Power Nullification, Power Hijacking, Power Creation, and Power Absorption.

I can't imagine how would I say something made up that already exists and established to be a common power in fiction while you, however, forgetting the fact that a majority of these powers directly comes from that wiki...yikes

I've watched a great deal of fiction and I've never heard the words "eye manipulation" put together. A lot of our powers are also on powerlisting wiki, sure, but we don't include the ridiculously niche powers, like fork manipulation.

Just because it doesn't exist in this wiki does not mean it isn't an actual power which several characters were shown to be able to use before in some form and this misconception some of you guys still believe should never be mentioned at all.

What? I believe it's a thing that people can do, but getting so ridiculously specific is pointless when broader powers already cover it. Sometimes abilities don't exist on the wiki and should be added, that's what these threads are about.

Power Manipulation could cover creation, destruction, and erasure exactly like Conceptual Manipulation in its own page (seriously tho, there's literally nothing wrong with doing that) while also excluding specific powers like Power Modification and every unrelated power from it.

Why would it include those things but exclude Power Modification? How is modifying something unrelated to the manipulation of it? Modifying concepts is considered part of Conceptual Manipulation. Modifying fire is considered part of Fire Manipulation. Modifying minds is part of Mind Manipulation. Why would Power Manipulation be any different?

I mean, the main reason why I bought up Power Manipulation in the first place to you because you disagreed on the idea of this power having its own separate page.

I'm fine with there being a page that covers Power Hijacking. I changed my mind when discussing it 6 months ago, and I still hold a similar opinion now.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I would also be fine with "Power Manipulation" if it encompassed everything to do with tampering with "Powers" and "Abilities" themselves then you could be more specific on the profile. I think Power Modification is quite clearly a direct manipulation of "Power" and "Abilities" changing it from one thing to another. Merely having "creation", "destruction" and "erasure" is to restrictive and specific especially if we regard "Power Manipulation" as any interference or interaction with "Powers" and "Abilities" themselves.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa If that's an acceptable solution to you, then okay. The idea of having both of pages is what I would agree with the most right now.

Not trying to suggest that we need to have Thermal Manipulation right now, I'm just telling you what it is and how it works. Lowering Heat is Cold Manipulation and lowering temperature (Cold Manip.) & raising temperature (Heat Manip.) would also fall under Thermal Manipulation, which is why I mentioned that.

You misunderstood what I said, when I said "never said you mentioned that," I clearly mean "I never mentioned that you would claim that about me, I'm just giving you a heads up ahead of time to try not to still claim things that I never said which you have previously done so a couple of times before for some of my points I addressed in my arguments earlier."

By association, yes (which is different as it doesn't require the powers to have similarities with each other) whereas for similarities, it would consider the power to be a subset which Power Manipulation isn't one like how Conceptual Manipulation isn't one either.

Okay, just letting you know.

Eye Manipulation is more common than you think, Dio shoots eye beams, Ben has an alien which does just that, Flandre using Eye Magic, Nico Robin using her devil fruit powers to move her eyes in different locations, several characters with supernatural eyes that can perform different kinds of magic and etc. This would fall under a type of Body Manipulation that involves controlling body parts. If we had Object Manipulation, then Fork Manipulation would fall under that but you already know, its not on the wiki yet.

When there are a given list of characters that can use this power, that's when this becomes irrelevant. Superpowers can still exist on other wikis and if they deserve to be added (I'm only referring about the broader powers specifically in this case), then they should be added.

I guess you could make a fair point but Power Modification should be considered as a associated ability under that power instead of being placed under subset powers like Power Creation and etc.

If its possible to come up with a good explanation of how Power Hijacking different from Power Manipulation in some way, then it could happen.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@EmperorRorepme I'm gonna explain the differences between these powers once more, just in case:

• Power Manipulation = Controls powers, they are never changed just like how you control Fire but you never change the actual element to something else.
• Power Modification = changes the quality of powers, the context of the wording that this power uses is very important to remember as you can only make powers better or worse.

So with this power, I can make Heat Manipulation be Absolute Hot (eternal heat) and Cold Manipulation be Absolute Cold (eternal cold).

• Power Transmutation = completely changes the powers and transforms it into a different power but remember, it only changes them but not improve/worsen them.

Basically, I can make Heat Manipulation be Cold Manipulation or a different ability from the original. You can also change the alternate power back to the original too (which that is self-explanatory), so yeah.

Other than that, I'm also fine with Power Manipulation having its page, Power Modification should be added there as an associated power but not as a subset power unlike Power Creation, which is an actual subset power.

 

[Agnaa]

Power Manipulation = Controls powers, they are never changed just like how you control Fire but you never change the actual element to something else.

That's because fire refers to that specific element. Power Manipulation refers to all powers, so it includes changing it to other powers. Like how a character with Elemental Manipulation could change elements into other elements.

If you wanna use your definitions in your own time, that's cool, but I'm interested in what are useful phrases and definitions for this site, since this site is the one we're communicating on.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehh, could someone give me a tl;dr about this recent discussion?

 

[Agnaa]

The last two posts are a good enough tl;dr. But if I had to try...

I think we should either have a new Power Hijacking page or a Power Manipulation page which includes things like Power Nullification, Power Bestowal, Power Creation, Power Modification, Power Hijacking, and Power Absorption.

Magi seems to think that some of these powers are unrelated to Power Manipulation and thus shouldn't go on the page, and even that some characters who have Power Modification shouldn't have that ability, and should have "Power Transmutation" instead.

I think that that's getting too close to powerlisting-wiki levels of separation and being nitpicky.

 

[Antoniofer]

All right, technically any power that alter control and alter other powers is Power Manipulation, so anything that is called "Power X" qualify as subset of Power Manipulation (be power absorption, negation, creation, destruction, erasure, etc.).

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Agnaa Which proves my point on how they are different, yes. Tbh, our "Transmutation" page is basically omni-transmutation without the "omni-" since we include all types of powers that involves changing things to something different to fall under that broad power which this wiki's literal definition of it also clearly describes it to work like that.

So changing Elements to different ones, which is called Elemental Transmutation (not implying to be added, I'm just telling you what the power is) b/c Elemental Manipulation is just controlling elements in general, falls under Transmutation.

That I can help you out with when I'm available to.

As for Power Manipulation, I would prefer that name for the page instead. The non-subset powers (ex: Power Modification) should be referred as associated powers on the page if it would solve that problem then.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antonio Changing powers is Power Transmutation, which falls under Transmutation as a subset and an associated power to Power Manipulation, which actually just controls powers. Power Creation/Destruction/Erasure is fine as a subset, the rest of them should be referred as associated powers.


Other than that, since you're here now, I have mentioned a list of responses for you to check.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Modification: "A change to something, usually to improve it." Under this definition, changing the function of something does indeed count.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God Of Procrastination You do realize that's clearly a vague definition to describe Modification, because it's only intended to change the quality of the thing.

Speaking of changing things, we have a page that involves doing that but works completely different from it called Transmutation.

• Transmutation: "is the ability to alter the form of energy, beings, objects, matter, etc. to change it into something else."

^ This would involve changing the original thing to something different. So think about how Modifications work in a video game, you only change the functions of the things you use in the game, you never actually change the actual game itself because then you would have created an entirely different game from the original, which wouldn't be considered as a Mod anymore.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

@The God Of Procrastination You do realize that's clearly a vague definition to describe Modification, because it's only intended to change the quality of the thing.

Danganronpa - All Objections Interjections Refutations Rebuttals Identifications Eurekas Breaks

I got it from [1], and I agree with it, it's you who are being too specific.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The God of Procrastination Shouldn't you have mentioned some form of counterargument with that video?