Undertale Yellow Discussion Thread

[Eden_Warlock99]

Clover did reach Hotland in some runs prior to the Flowey shenanigans tho

 

[StrymULTRA]

And?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

And?

Waterfall is full of 9-A monsters

 

[StrymULTRA]

Waterfall is full of 9-A monsters

There's no proof that in the main runs we get in the game the monsters are comparable to the Waterfall ones.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

There's no proof that in the main runs we get in the game the monsters are comparable to the Waterfall ones.

Ye I'm talking about the runs before Flowey messed with the switch

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ye I'm talking about the runs before Flowey messed with the switch

My point was mostly about the blue human, it's vague enough that them being "9-B, possibly 9-A" is reasonable imo.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Ooh, there's a discussion thread of this? Following.

Anyway, how's the discussion on making a Clover profile? Any intentions on making Pacifist/Genocide keys? If we do make Genocide key, it would have to be split into 2, where the first key is before fighting Zenith Martlet and the second key is after the final fight which gave Clover the power to SAVE just like Flowey.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyway, how's the discussion on making a Clover profile? Any intentions on making Pacifist/Genocide keys? If we do make Genocide key, it would have to be split into 2, where the first key is before fighting Zenith Martlet and the second key is after the final fight which gave Clover the power to SAVE just like Flowey.

I don't **** on FC/OC, I don't bother much with Fanon things, I do it only because it's the new thing. I cna give guides though but I don't feel much indexing UT Yellow.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

All the battle sprites in the UTY wiki have that black box, we'll probably need to render them first

 

[Ghengiroo115]

In Flawed Pacifist Clover draws their gun on Asgore after he shows them the souls so they definitely wanted to fight Asgore.

Truthfully I’ve only seen the Flawed Pacifist ending from a single video prior so I didn’t notice that. However I also didn’t notice Asgore saying he’ll make it quick, which luckily for me further proves that Clover downscales from him.

There's no timestamp so idk what is the statement you're reffering to.

Whoops, I copied the link at the quote but I guess it didn’t work. The quote was “I bet you could’ve outlasted ASGORE if you’d bothered to reach him!”

All of this could have happened without Pacifist!Clover/Ceroba being comparable to Asgore.

This portion isn’t to prove that Clover and Ceroba scale to Asgore, just that the Shmup mode gives Clover a pretty significant amp.

Plus, Clover absolutely gets Determination boosts in Genocide, it's why they override Flowey's control of the timelines.

True but there’s nothing about them unlocking the Shmup mode in Genocide that really screams “determination”, at least not in my opinion. It doesn’t matter much though.

Is there a proof of that? I don't remember this.

It isn’t directly stated, but many secrets throughout the game infer that Dalv was the monster with Kanako that was attacked by the Blue Soul human. This can be seen through a drawing of Dalv in Kanako’s room, a certain FUN event (skip to 2:56) depicting the Snowdin incident, Dalv’s initial reaction to seeing a human as well as other stuff too.

It happened at Snowdin, so we don't have any proof of the Blue Human having encountered a Snowdin monster yet.

The human’s attack was in Snowdin, but Axis found and killed the human in Waterfall.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Whoops, I copied the link at the quote but I guess it didn’t work. The quote was “I bet you could’ve outlasted ASGORE if you’d bothered to reach him!”

Flowey literally doesn't want to help Clover like at all. He only wants to use them to get the SOULs, not to mention that he easily overpowers them, and Flowey himself can't beat Asgore.

This portion isn’t to prove that Clover and Ceroba scale to Asgore, just that the Shmup mode gives Clover a pretty significant amp.

So Ceroba doesn't scale regardless, ok.

It isn’t directly stated, but many secrets throughout the game infer that Dalv was the monster with Kanako that was attacked by the Blue Soul human. This can be seen through a drawing of Dalv in Kanako’s room, a certain FUN event (skip to 2:56) depicting the Snowdin incident, Dalv’s initial reaction to seeing a human as well as other stuff too.

It's too vague, it doesn't really mean Dalv actually confronted them.

The human’s attack was in Snowdin, but Axis found and killed the human in Waterfall.

That definitely makes a 9-A solid then.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Since Undertale has a speed hierarchy based on how high their stats are, wouldn’t that make the entire notable cast scale to 9-A monsters by default due to Dalv using avoidable electricity attacks? Most of them require aim dodging to avoid, but the lightning bolts from his cape move at similar speeds to Clover’s Soul.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Since Undertale has a speed hierarchy based on how high their stats are, wouldn’t that make the entire notable cast scale to 9-A monsters by default due to Dalv using avoidable electricity attacks? Most of them require aim dodging to avoid, but the lightning bolts from his cape move at similar speeds to Clover’s Soul.

UT yellow is its own canon as after all it's a fanfic. Aka it just means that 9-Bs in Yellow are faster.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Flowey literally doesn't want to help Clover like at all. He only wants to use them to get the SOULs, not to mention that he easily overpowers them, and Flowey himself can't beat Asgore.

Flowey’s motivations don’t change the validity of his statement, as he still needs Clover to be strong enough to whittle down Asgore and would have zero reason to lie in this situation.

Clover gets stronger through DT as the battle progress, as seen by them having the Shmup mode and how Flowey can’t hold them down. Eventually Clover becomes so powerful and resilient that Flowey admits he can’t beat them. Flowey within his mind is also a more dangerous foe than his physical form due to his greater amount of abilities.

So Ceroba doesn't scale regardless, ok.

I never said that? My reasonings for Ceroba scaling are at the top of my initial comment.

It's too vague, it doesn't really mean Dalv actually confronted them.

Chujin said that Dalv was injured by the human’s attack.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

UT yellow is its own canon as after all it's a fanfic. Aka it just means that 9-Bs in Yellow are faster.

OK cool, just making sure because it would be pretty important lol

IMO Flowey’s statement comparing Ceroba to Asgore should hold some weight, especially when you compare it to a certain Neutral route statement that Flowey would have no reason to be dishonest about.

Obviously Clover losing to Asgore in Flawed Pacifist is a pretty major thing, however there are a few reasons why I don’t think this fight contradicts the idea that Ceroba scales to Asgore:
1. You never get an option to actually attack Asgore, in fact you don’t even “fight” him the way you do any other monster or even Flowey. This either means that Clover simply refused to fight back (which is in line with their sacrifice in the other ending) or that Asgore has some crazy battle manipulation hax (which obviously doesn’t say anything about where he physically scales).

2. Clover surviving multiple attacks from an all-out Asgore shows that they scale to him on some level regardless of the reason you can’t attempt to damage him, which leads credence to base Ceroba also scaling to him.

3. This was already mentioned, but Clover doesn’t have the Shmup mode against Asgore. I’ll get to it in a moment, but Shmup mode Clover is pretty consistently portrayed as stronger than they are normally.

4. Also mentioned, base Ceroba deals similar damage to Asgore and is also shown to completely overwhelm base Pacifist Clover with her full power.

Here’s my reasoning on why Ceroba should scale to Asgore btw, because my initial comment is a little messy. TL;DR is that base Clover downscales from an all-out Asgore and full power Ceroba completely overwhelms base Clover. As such Ceroba and Asgore should be comparable in stats especially when you account for the Flowey quotes.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Here’s my reasoning on why Ceroba should scale to Asgore btw, because my initial comment is a little messy. TL;DR is that base Clover downscales from an all-out Asgore and full power Ceroba completely overwhelms base Clover. As such Ceroba and Asgore should be comparable in stats especially when you account for the Flowey quotes.

Cerbora doesn't overwhelm them though? This from where comes from?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also I have completed the Genocide. That Martlet fight was one of the most annoying and brainless things I ever had to encounter, a lot of the things just can't be dodged within human reactions. I had to unironically grind phase two without items, as no way I was coming back to phase 1.

Was the game even tested lol.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Also I have completed the Genocide. That Martlet fight was one of the most annoying and brainless things I ever had to encounter, a lot of the things just can't be dodged within human reactions. I had to unironically grind phase two without items, as no way I was coming back to phase 1.

Was the game even tested lol.

Was that pre-patched or post-patched when you beat her? All I did to beat her was cheese the entire fight with the Golden Cactus glitch in the pre-patched version. The developers have acknowledged how hard the fight was that they ended up bringing in an ACT option for the player to heal during Phase 2 (AKA the post-patch).

That’s pretty much your typical kaizo-like Undertale fangame lmao.

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

Ceroba can create a black hole for one of her attacks
Idk if this can be used as a feat

 

[StrymULTRA]

Was that pre-patched or post-patched when you beat her? All I did to beat her was cheese the entire fight with the Golden Cactus glitch in the pre-patched version. The developers have acknowledged how hard the fight was that they ended up bringing in an ACT option for the player to heal during Phase 2 (AKA the post-patch).

Post, ye.

Also what glitch?

Ceroba can create a black hole for one of her attacks
Idk if this can be used as a feat

Yeaaaaaah, no. It's nowhere stated to be a black hole nor acts like one as all it does is attracting some projectiles.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Ceroba can create a black hole for one of her attacks
Idk if this can be used as a feat

Yeah, that doesn’t feel like a real black hole due to the lack of statements to prove it’s real.

Also what glitch?

There’s a glitch with the Golden Cactus where if you eat the Golden Cactus and then proceed to die afterward, upon continuing, the regeneration effect from the Golden Cactus in the previous fight is still in effect, and you can stack this however many times you want (Up to 99 turns of regeneration) just as long as you keep dying after eating the Golden Cactus.

 

[StrymULTRA]

There’s a glitch with the Golden Cactus where if you eat the Golden Cactus and then proceed to die afterward, upon continuing, the regeneration effect from the Golden Cactus in the previous fight is still in effect, and you can stack this however many times you want (Up to 99 turns of regeneration) just as long as you keep dying after eating the Golden Cactus.

This game IS untested lmao.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Cerbora doesn't overwhelm them though? This from where comes from?

The part where she makes your HP go to 00.00001

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Ceroba can create a black hole for one of her attacks
Idk if this can be used as a feat

That's definitely not a black hole,more like a vortex or vacuum.

 

[StrymULTRA]

The part where she makes your HP go to 00.00001

She does it with many attacks, imo is just Clover being that much resilient.

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

Some possible other feats (Don't have links RN)
Ceroba smashes pillars (Probably 9-B)
Macro Froggit shakes the room
Frostermit can create ice cubes
Robots that guardener summons throw bombs (also likely 9-B)

 

[Blunt_Claw]

She does it with many attacks, imo is just Clover being that much resilient.

"Many attacks" doesn't matter,Asgore kills us using "Many attacks",neither of them can one-shot Clover,unless Clover isn't wearing any armor in which case Ceroba will deal 13 damage which can two-shot.

Clover survived because they were at the peak of their determination and literal seconds away from unlocking shooter mode which we all agree gives a power boost significant enough to warrant a seperate key.

Clover would have died to Ceroba if they couldn't go into shooter mode,just like how they died to Asgore.

This doesn't apply to her base form but during her masked from Ceroba does a lot of Toriel and Asgore like attacks.
Ceroba in general feels like a boss monster but apparently isn't. (unlike the rest of her family.)

 

[StrymULTRA]

gives a power boost significant enough to warrant a seperate key.

Frisk tho.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Frisk tho.

???

 

[StrymULTRA]

???

Frisk doesn't have keys depending on power boost, it's all in the same one.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Frisk doesn't have keys depending on power boost, it's all in the same one.

Frisk isn't Clover. Their determination boost doesn't manifest as a soul form/transformation that gives them new abilities like big shots or invincible dashes.
This feels like you are using an imprecisely worded part of my post to discredit my points insted of making a proper counter arguement.

 

[StrymULTRA]

that gives them new abilities like big shots or invincible dashes.

Asriel fight: Really?

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Asriel fight: Really?

"Oh wow my ability to resurrect myself got stronger,I don't even need to rewind time anymore! This is totally equivalent to getting brand new abilities that I did not have at all before whatsoever!!!"

 

[StrymULTRA]

"Oh wow my ability to resurrect myself got stronger,I don't even need to rewind time anymore! This is totally equivalent to getting brand new abilities that I did not have at all before whatsoever!!!"

That's not counting the fact that they can create healing items out of nowhere, and you know, that freaking 2-B Dura.

To avoid bloating I'd just make two keys for Clover between Pacifist/Neutral and Genocide, as latter is clearly made to make Clover different as it's definitely "not-canon".

 

[Blunt_Claw]

That's not counting the fact that they can create healing items out of nowhere, and you know, that freaking 2-B Dura.

To avoid bloating I'd just make two keys for Clover between Pacifist/Neutral and Genocide, as latter is clearly made to make Clover different as it's definitely "not-canon".

Whatever,it doesn't matter if we index Clover's shooter mode as a seperate key or not,it's mostly unrelated to scaling.

We all agree Clover is stronger in that form,what we disagree upon is Ceroba's power level. And when it comes to that subject,you have not adressed most of my points.

Here is my previous post,I have removed the parts that you have previously acknowledged.

"Many attacks" doesn't matter,Asgore kills us using "Many attacks",neither of them can one-shot Clover,unless Clover isn't wearing any armor in which case Ceroba will deal 13 damage which can two-shot.

Clover survived because they were at the peak of their determination and literal seconds away from unlocking shooter mode

Clover would have died to Ceroba if they couldn't go into shooter mode,just like how they died to Asgore.

This doesn't apply to her base form but during her masked from Ceroba does a lot of Toriel and Asgore like attacks.
Ceroba in general feels like a boss monster but apparently isn't. (unlike the rest of her family.)

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

For pixel scaling, is the UT yellow soul considered to be the same size as the UT soul

 

[StrymULTRA]

For pixel scaling, is the UT yellow soul considered to be the same size as the UT soul

No idea, but we have shots where the SOUL gets outside of Clover's body in cutscenes.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Cerbora doesn't overwhelm them though? This from where comes from?

When she uses her full power she starts sending unavoidable attacks at Clover, and they would’ve been screwed if not for them holding on with their Determination.

I decided to check Ceroba and Asgore’s battles to compare their damage output. Asgore defeats Clover in 4 hits, which tells us Clover takes 5-9 damage from him. Looking at Ceroba’s unavoidable attack, the damage prior to the decimals seems to be half of Clover’s current HP rounded up, with the choice of armour not mattering. A 14HP Clover with the Delta Rune Patch had their HP go 14-7-4-2-1. An 18HP Clover with the Golden Bandana had their HP go 18-9-5-3-2-1. Ceroba never shows any HP-cutting ability ever again, so my assumption is that the lower damage is meant to show Clover growing more resilient with DT and it was just coded a convenient way. This checks out with Flowey’s statement saying Asgore wouldn’t stand a chance against a post-Ceroba Geno Clover.

Also something I just realised: the only other characters to use unavoidable attacks in either vanilla UT or Yellow are meta-knowledgeable characters (Sans and Flowey), characters who scale higher than most of the cast (Asgore in Yellow) or characters that apply to both (Photoshop Flowey and GoH Asriel).

Also also, Ceroba knocks both Martlet and Starlo out cold with a single (non-lethal) hit in her normal state and those two are comparable to Waterfall monsters. Sorry for the multiple “also”’s, I just kept realising stuff that I figured was good to mention.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I decided to check Ceroba and Asgore’s battles to compare their damage output. Asgore defeats Clover in 4 hits. While we don’t see Clover’s HP this tells us they take 5-9 damage from Asgore. Looking at Ceroba’s unavoidable attack, the damage prior to the decimals seems to be half of Clover’s current HP rounded up, with the choice of armour not mattering. A 14HP Clover with the Delta Rune Patch had their HP go 14-7-4-2-1. An 18HP Clover with the Golden Bandana had their HP go 18-9-5-3-2-1. Ceroba never shows any HP-cutting ability ever again, so my assumption is that the lower damage is meant to show Clover growing more resilient with DT. This checks out with Flowey’s statement saying Asgore wouldn’t stand a chance against a post-Ceroba Geno Clover.

Also something I just realised: the only other characters to use unavoidable attacks in either vanilla UT or Yellow are meta-knowledgeable characters (Sans and Flowey), characters who scale higher than most of the cast (Asgore in Yellow) or characters that apply to both (Photoshop Flowey and GoH Asriel).

The best I can say here is that a full DT Paci Clover and Masked Cerbora should downscale from Asgore, though my problem is still that Flowey later says that Clover will 100% die against Asgore also in genocide as Adem pointed, meaning that we need to take his statements with a grain of salt. I don't find either of these statements usable anyways, as the one after Ceroba is made to fool Clover, and the one after Zenith Martlet is made only to spit some venom on them instead.

Base Cerbora and regular Clover not really though.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

The best I can say here is that a full DT Paci Clover and Masked Cerbora should downscale from Asgore, though my problem is still that Flowey later says that Clover will 100% die against Asgore also in genocide as Adem pointed, meaning that we need to take his statements with a grain of salt. I don't find either of these statements usable anyways, as the one after Ceroba is made to fool Clover, and the one after Zenith Martlet is made only to spit some venom on them instead.

While Flowey is an unreliable narrator, his words aren’t automatically invalid. He’s one of the most knowledgable characters, so if his words have something backing them up or have no reason to be a lie then they should be useable as a support for something. There’s notable evidence in support of Ceroba being on Asgore’s level even without Flowey’s post-Geno Ceroba quote, whereas Flowey’s post-Zenith quote is pretty obviously BS and is arguably just him talking about Clover being emotionless like he is.

There’s also his quote as Meta Flowey where he was pretty confident Shmup Clover could’ve beaten Asgore if they tried to. He has zero reason to outright lie in this situation given he’s already betrayed Clover, and it’s not a ”last laugh” situation like (arguably) post-Zenith as Flowey has basically nothing to fear in this situation.