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Now you're cherrypicking, discarding the part of Flowey's statement that don't suit your narrative only because you don't like it. You can't still have the cake after eating it after all.
They surely did in fact lmao.
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Undertale Yellow Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Blunt_Claw
- Start date
- 521
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- #82
They literally did not discard anything.
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Cherrypicking.
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- #84
No,they properly explained why they believe Flowey's statement about Ceroba isn't bullshit.
You are just saying that their arguement is bunk while not debunking it.
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I already accepted the MASKED Ceroba and High DT Clover downscaling, what's your problem lol?
Ghengiroo115
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That’s not what cherrypicking is? Zenith Martlet is objectively way more powerful than Asgore. Flowey saying that Asgore would end up killing LV20 Clover (again, assuming he’s not just talking metaphorically) when that’s very obviously not true make the statement invalid. Flowey saying that Ceroba is as strong as Asgore when there’s evidence supporting this notion makes that statement useable.
Eden_Warlock99
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I assume this is just due to the Meta Flowey statement?
Ghengiroo115
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Anyway how are Clover’s keys gonna be handled? Obviously they’ll have a “with Asgore’s Soul” key (or whatever it’d be called), but how do we handle the stuff like LV and the Shmup mode?
Eden_Warlock99
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Ehh, don't think Asgore's SOUL gives a significant enough boost to get its own key, it just makes them strong enough to cross the barrier, which ain't really quantifiable
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- #90
They don't do anything while they have Asgore's soul though.
I would split it as: Base / Shooter Form / LV19+
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The Asgore's SOUL is kinda featless tbh.
Regardless, two keys, one for Neutral/Pacifist and other for Genocide.
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- #92
Base key is "9-B with minimal determination,9-A with greater determination"
Shmup form key is simply "9-A"
and LV19+ key is "at least 9-A".
Ghengiroo115
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A human Soul alone isn’t strong enough to cross the barrier even with its natural full power, but a human Soul and monster Soul combined are. Clover with Asgore’s Soul would scale above Asriel with Chara’s Soul since both of the former scale way above their latter counterparts.
Also I guess we’re calling it Shooter mode/form?Thank god I can stop saying Shmup mode now
Both of these make sense. Maybe a Neutral/Pacifist key that’s like “9-A, higher with Shooter mode” and a Genocide key that’s like “9-A, higher with Shooter mode, far higher at max LV”?
Also I guess we’re calling it Shooter mode/form?
Ghengiroo115
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I don’t think we really need a 9-B key, as even weaker bosses like Dalv already scale to 9-A. Clover also doesn’t have nearly as much DT as Frisk does, so I think they’re just naturally physically stronger.
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We don't know how strong the human was when fighting Dalv nor how he survived the encounter, that's a problem I have here.
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- #96
By scaling to AXIS and the Blue human right?
Plus now that I remember Clover could make it to Hotland in the timelines preceding Flowey's trap.
Ghengiroo115
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Wouldn’t Shooter mode be “at least 9-A”, since we all agree Masked Ceroba with this mode downscales from Asgore at the very least?
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- #98
"At least" implies that it could be higher.
Not that this matters anymore since now I think that indexing it as: LV 1+ "9-A,higher in shooter mode" / LV19+ "At least 9-A" is the way to go.
Ghengiroo115
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We know he was injured, but yeah we technically don’t know if Integrity scaled to Waterfall monsters at that point. Martlet should scale to Waterfall monsters since she fought Snowdin Geno Clover, but Dalv isn’t concrete. My only issue is that having a 9-B portion feels a bit clunky but I guess it’s not too big of an issue.
Eden_Warlock99
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I mean, pretty sure monsters reach godlike power from absorbing a human SOUL, cause they can actually utilize its full power with magic and stuff
Don't see why Clover would be able to do that with a SOUL that's nearly hundreds of times weaker than their own SOUL
Ghengiroo115
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Asgore scales to “at least” in UT due to him fighting in the Human-Monster War. Since Masked Ceroba scales she and Shooter mode Clover would be “at least” as well.
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- #102
Ghengiroo115
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A full power human Soul isn’t enough to cross the barrier, but any human or monster with a Soul from the other race can do it. Monsters being able to access more of a human Soul’s power makes logical sense and might actually be true, but in this case I don’t think that’s why they get so strong.
Ghengiroo115
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Whoopsie, guess I misread that.
Eden_Warlock99
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I think it's more like, Human SOUL+Monster SOUL>Human SOUL>>>>>>>Monster SOUL
So Asgore's SOUL gives Clover the tiny boost necessary to cross the barrier
Ghengiroo115
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Yeah, but Clover isn’t confirmed to have the natural full power of a human Soul. A being with both a human Soul and monster Soul is stronger than the natural peak of a human, natural being not whatever the hell Frisk was cooking in True Pacifist.
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- #107
We put Asriel w/Chara's soul at 8-A not 2-B.
Plus I don't think it's ever stated that a human absorbing a monsters soul gives the human an AP boost,just the ability to cross the barrier.
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- #108
I don't think Adem Warlock was talking about of Frisk's 2-B stuff when they said "Human SOUL+Monster SOUL>Human SOUL".
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- #109
Breaking or crossing the barrier doesn't seem like an AP dependent thing to me.
It's more about how many and which types of souls you have,not the strength of said souls.
It's more about how many and which types of souls you have,not the strength of said souls.
Ghengiroo115
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Nah I was just memeing+clarifying, since Frisk’s power obviously isn’t a natural level of a human.
Doesn’t Alphys say something along the lines of “a human Soul alone isn’t strong enough to cross the barrier”?
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- #111
Good to know.
Eh... I'm not certain.
Regardless,Clover doesn't do anything while they have Asgore's soul and indexing it wouldn't do anything other than just add another "higher" to the profile since we are not going to make Clover 8-A for absorbing someone weaker than them.
Ghengiroo115
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Alright
Eden_Warlock99
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- #114
Nice
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Ghengiroo115
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Neat
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I finished the neutral route of the game. The game is bad. I spared Starlo, killed the Mexican, killed every monster that attacked me, killed Axis and killed the emo vampire from adventure time.
I won't be doing a genocide/pacifist route. I am an american, I don't spare people if they try to kill me. I shoot them to death.
In Undertale Yellow. In Undertale Yellow.
I won't be doing a genocide/pacifist route. I am an american, I don't spare people if they try to kill me. I shoot them to death.
In Undertale Yellow. In Undertale Yellow.
Ghengiroo115
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El Bailador deserves better than this
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- #120
El más grande de todos los tiempos.
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