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Undertale: Tsundere Plane Downgrade

So, the general consensus is that TP is indeed not City.

We honestly don't need Perp to advance, frankly he is 1 somewhat notable member and not some absolute arbiter of Undertale whose opinon is final on all matters

Just wish there was someone around to calc it with the new values, then.
 
Hm, the problem here is that the calc assumes that Frisk is a teenager, not a little kid.

But doesn't Toriel constantly refer to Frisk as "my child"? Even if it's been ages since a human has come here, I'm sure Toriel is smart enough to tell the difference between a small child and a teenager.

Doesn't she also say Flowey was bad for hurting a "poor innocent youth"?

Also, in the beginning on the game, you see Chara running towards Mt. Ebott and falling into it , who is the same size as Frisk, and they are DEFINITELY not as big as a teenager in that cutscene, they were definitely meant to be the size of a child. In Asriel's memories, you see them standing side by side with their parents (Toriel and Asgore) towering over them.

Judging by their body proportions and their size, they are definitely kids. And since Frisk is the same size as them, they are too.

But I'm fine with the downgrade, just wanted to point this out.
 
Hmmm alright, can someone re-calc the feat while we wait or do all profiles that are scaled turn unknown tier for the time being?
 
Well there's really not much to fix... We just need to change Frisk's height in these calcs which shouldn't take too long. I would do this, but I feel like since Lina made the calcs he should probably do it?
 
So, what would Frisk's height in this case then? Considering Asgore's height is explicitly shown here compared to a regular adult...

Human vs Asgore
Perhaps the height of a ten-year-old child then?
 
Lina Shields said:
So, what would Frisk's height in this case then? Considering Asgore's height is explicitly shown here compared to a regular adult...
Human vs Asgore
Click to expand...
Perhaps the height of a ten-year-old child then?

Is that really Asgore in the opening? I think that represents the monster leader in general not Asgore....he's even missing a horn when Asgore doesn't
 
Eldritch abomination said:
Is that really Asgore in the opening? I think that represents the monster leader in general not Asgore....he's even missing a horn when Asgore doesn't
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he's just turned sideways, considering Asgore was explicitly the one in control when the monsters were trapped. Since Asriel died, he has Type 1 Immortality, after all.
 
Keep in mind that if Frisk has the height of a 10-year-old child, Asgore would scale from the height as well, considering that Asgore is about twice the height of Frisk scaling from the game sprites.

This would mean that the picture above would contradict what is shown in the gameplay.
 
That's the problem. I'm pretty sure overworld sprites are not exact, and while they show a relative size, it is not exact. In the intro, Asgore is twice the size of an adult warrior. Going by overworld sprites, he is only around twice the size of Frisk, who is, regardless of exact age, not the size of an adult.
 
Okay, so Lina asked me to post this here to help determine scaling. These are the attack stats for a few of the game's relevant monsters. Keep in mind stats are not linear.

Froggit, one of the weakest enemies in the game, has an attack value of 4.

One of the stronger Ruins enemies, Migosp, has an attack value of 7.

Napstablook has an attack value of 10.

Snowdrake, a Snowdin Forest enemy, has an attack value of 12.

Lesser Dog also has 12.

Doggo has 13.

The Dogi have 14.

Greater Dog has 15.

A not fully serious Papyrus has a value of 20. In the Genocide Route, in which his guard is down and he only wants to give you a hug, it becomes 3.

Aaron, a random Waterfall enemy, has 24.

Undyne has 50.

Tsunderplane, a random Hotlands enemy (who the calc is for), has 25.

Box Mettaton has 30.

Knight Knight, a random CORE enemy, has 36.

Mettaton EX has 47.

Asgore and Toriel both have 80.

During the Genocide Route, Undyne the Undying has 99. This is the same as what Chara has at the end of the route.

Mettaton NEO has 90.

Asriel's first form has "Infinity".
 
Seeing that Tsunderplane has Small Town level attack potency, to scale the rest of the monsters listed above.

Attack Potency: Wall level

  • Froggit
  • Whimsun
  • Moldsmal
  • Loox
  • Vegetoid
Attack Potency: Room level, likely higher

  • Migosp
  • Memoryhead
  • Endogeny
  • Reaper Bird
  • Napstablook
Attack Potency: Building level, likely higher

  • Snowdrake
  • Childrake
  • Lesser Dog
  • Doggo
  • Ice Cap
Attack Potency: City Block level

  • The Dogi
  • Dogamy and Dogaressa
  • Greater Dog
  • Moldbygg
  • Woshua
  • Gyftrot
  • Shyren
Attack Potency: Small Town level

  • Papyrus
  • Aaron
  • Tsunderplane
  • Vulkin
  • Moldessa
  • Migospel
  • Madjick
  • Pyrope
Attack Potency: At least Small Town level, likely higher

  • Royal Guards
  • Parsnik
  • Astigmatism
  • Mad Dummy
  • Final Froggit
  • Box Mettaton
  • Whimsalot
  • Knight Knight
  • Muffet
Attack Potency: Town level

  • Mettaton EX
  • Undyne
Attack Potency: At least Town level, likely higher

  • Toriel
  • Asgore
  • Mettaton NEO
Obviously Asriel and Flowey stay where they are. Not sure about Glyde though (AT rating of HIGH).

There is an alternate way of finding the tiers for these guys. I did a quick calculation trying to find how much the AP increases per AT stat increase, and for every increase in AT, their AP doubles...
 
Or from the Greater Dog and Above: MCBL

And from Snowdrake to The Dogi: City Block level

Napstablook could be Large Building level
 
Don't add punctuation marks to your blog title. It will cause the blog not to link property.
 
Well, the reason Tsunderplane is 7-B is because of Perp's calc. Suddenly downgrading Tsunderplane (and the other UT characters who aren't God Tier) without him at least knowing it is like saying:

"Hey man, we downgraded all the characters cause your calc was faulty, hope you don't mind. Why didn't we ask for your opinion earlier? Oh, everyone else agreed so your opinion wouldn't matter in the slightest."

Seems pretty rude to me. We should at least let him SEE this first and see if he agrees or not.
 
I understand your concern, but this is no irreversible change.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, as they say, and the ratings can just be changed back if Perp comes up with proper evidence towards TP's powerlevel that is accepted by the consensus.
 
I know that but since this is a change that requires rebuking the calc of a person, shouldn't said person be here to validate or reject the revision based on their reasons?

I've seen dozens of content revision threads, and all of them have the same theme:

We need to wait for the input of the one responsible for the current ratings and see if he/she agrees or not. Especially if they're a higher-up on the site.

Simply changing the ratings without the user's input (especially when said person is a Staff Member and is currently active), is simply saying his/her inputs aren't needed and unnecessary. Perp is not only a member here, but a high ranking one at that. We should at least inform him of this if possible before changing it.

In this site, we don't care about "the needs of the many", we care for the accuracy and precise data that's backed up with logical reasoning.

Besides, if Perp DOES have any evidence validating Tsunderplane's tier, he should just say it here and save the hassle of making YET ANOTHER Undertale Upgrade/Downgrade thread, which at this point is getting people irritated at the constant shifting in stats.
 
Perp is inactive, I think he stated that he was going to take a "vacation" from this wiki or something. Regardless, you can at least add the


1ac30e50
This article is under revision.
It contains incomplete information.
You can help VS Battles Wiki by expanding it.
​
template to the affected pages.
 
Yes, we don't really need Perp here. There's no point in getting the opinion of the guy who made the calcs. The calcs were decided to be faulty period.
 
I think we should ask a bureaucrat about how long Perp is going to be away

If he's taking a like multiple month break then I think we can make the changes.

I mean

It's not like the world revolves around him or something
 
Thebluedash said:
Yes, we don't really need Perp here. There's no point in getting the opinion of the guy who made the calcs. The calcs were decided to be faulty period.
Click to expand...
This. I am getting quite sick and tired of waiting to be honest, and waiting for a person who made the faulty calcs to begin with.
 
Yeah it doesn't matter even if we know when he's going to come back. Yes yes he made the calc, but so what? If some dude on NF makes a faulty calc, and we debunk it here. Will we wait til that dude make an account here and reply? Heck no. We should just get on with this. Especially since no one knows when Perp is going to come back
 
Well, since he's on an indefinite leave (as I thought he was still active and just not informed of this), I suppose downgrading them now would be fine in my opinion.

@Thebluedash

To be fair, waiting for a response from someone who's from this site is a lot easier than waiting for someone who's from a completely different one (NF). I've seen threads where we wait for guys to explain the reasoning of the calc or rating before changing anything, but they were active, unlike Perp who isn't as I just learned recently.
 
Keep in mind that I posted the blog, and the blog link was updated.

As the author of the calc I ask: Does anyone have any objections? If you do, please list them as clearly as possible so I can update the calc on the final touches.
 
Is most likely about Asgore and Mettaton NEO.

I mean, apart from scaling, NEO is Multi-Universal lvl because he is a "human erradication weapon", right?

But should not be Asgore Multi-Universe lvl too?

He killed 6 humans, and they shouldn't be much weaker than Frisk or MAYBE Chara.
 
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