Undertale: Tsundere Plane Downgrade

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I propose that Tsundereplane should be downgraded to Low 7-C due to this calculatio which places Tsundere plane at such. This calculation should be used because we are not assuming how large Tsundere plane is and we can get actual scaling from Frisk to Tsundereplane. Much more concrete.

 

[fandom_6tails6]

Nice.

 

[Verivici]

Yeah

http://i.imgur.com/oFCZ5op.png You can actually see it on the overworld map

 

[Thebluedash]

Definitely agree with this. I always preferred Crazy's calc over Perp's. (Due to not assuming size)

 

[Verivici]

But does Crazy's calc scale Tsunderplane from the overworld, where it can actually be see in comparison to Frisk?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Looking at that picture above, it seems that by scaling from that, the AP value for Tsunderplane may get lower?

The speed for Tsunderplane should be kept the same as it sas moving in relation to Vulkin's lightning, although this could just be gameplay mechanics.

Now about that Froggit...

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Froggit is a really basic character in terms of power

He can be at beast Room level, maybe

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Although... Data Stats puts Froggit at 4 AK

Meanwhile Tsunderplane has an 8

So, maybe "Multi-City Block/City Block level" can be ok?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Although... Data Stats puts Froggit at 4 AK
Meanwhile Tsunderplane has an 8

So, maybe "Multi-City Block/City Block level" can be ok?

We don't use data stats, we use check stats. Tsunderplane's check AT is 25.

 

[Verivici]

Stats in UT don't scale linearly like that

Anyway, how about someone redoes the calc based on Tsunderplane in the overworld

 

[DontTalk]

Seems to be a reasonable way to argue it.

 

[Thebluedash]

Better Overworld image to scale methinks

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Actually, can we calculated Froggit's AP in the same way?

I mean, he actually uses a frog against Frisk

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Kaen

Except IIRC it involved calc stacking.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Man all them Undertale threads these days tho. Almost as much as the DB ones......

Anyways i suppose this has to be accepted then. Cause at least for Crazy, he didn't use an assumed plane size it seems....

 

[Lina_Shields]

I edited the calculation according to TheBlueDash's suggestions. Tsunderplane is about 2.52m long, which brings his mass about 15.18 kg.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So it's just a small bump within the Low 7-C tier? Alirhgt. *Nods*

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Cross: That seems to be correct, yes.

Also, based on Kaen's suggestion, Froggit should be scaled to beginning Frisk, who is at Wall level.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'd also go with Froggit being scaled to BoG (Beginning of Game) Frisk too.

Speaking of Froggit...

 

[Blahblah9755]

Could the energy for lesser dog barking loud enough to be heard from 3 miles away be calced? Since it doesn't feel right to be scaling him to Tsunderplane when he has half the attack stat

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm fairly certain Perpetual already responded to this on the blog in which the calcs were made and discussed.

Edit: Found it. This was his response to using overworld sprites to scale.

"At any rate, overworld sprites are themselves hella inconsistent. Asgore isn't even twice as tall as Frisk using those, let alone twice as tall as a fully grown person.


Even if we're going to assume that Tsunderplane is the size of its bullets, that's still a fair few times longer than Frisk is tall (1.4108 x 3 = 4.2324 m), and an airplane of that size would still be (length of Boeing 737 = 31.09 m, 4.2324/32.09 = .1319 times as large in each dimension, 68038.856 x .1319^3 = 156.102 kg), which would yield 20.777 kiltons, or Town level, so not even that's correct.

At any rate, no, I'm not in support making arbitrary assumptions that something that's very obviously supposed to be a plane (hence, it has actual bombs and everything it drops on you, which is also more evidence that gravity is directed downwards towards the ground/the bottom of the bullet board) is smaller than a plane and proceeding to chalk it up to fiction being inconsistent. I'm standing by the values I achieved."

 

[Lina_Shields]

The problem with this is that we are actually shown the explicit size of Tsunderplane via Bluedash's image.

I would like to see an image of Tsunderplane that is bigger than the size shown in Blue's picture.

I would also require proof shown on screen that those bombs are the size of actual bombs and not miniature makeshift bombs that Tsunderplane drops in you.

Perhaps the calc team can thoroughly check Perp's blog to see if they agree with the things in it?

 

[Verivici]

Sad fact is, there's actually a statement of Tsunderplane's size.

A news ticker during Mettaton's show shows a story about Tsunderplane going into an apparently normal store and coming out without any sort of bustle.

Fact is, saying that Tsunderplane is the size of a real plane is really getting a bit laughable at this point. I fail to see any sort of evidence for it being the size of an aeroplane rather than the size it shows on the overworld.

 

[Verivici]

bumpity bump

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Sad fact is, there's actually a statement of Tsunderplane's size.
A news ticker during Mettaton's show shows a story about Tsunderplane going into an apparently normal store and coming out without any sort of bustle.

The story doesn't really matter, but I'm going to point out how said story is explicitly about how Tsunderplane creates a massive line, at the store.

 

[Verivici]

It can still fit in the store, regardless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

And do we know how big said store is? Because I don't recall any mention of anything other than Tsunderplane causing a huge line at the store.

 

[SomebodyData]

Excuse me, but wasn't the line because she was being tsundre in the store?

Also, it kinda does matter if it means that she can fit in a store, espically when you consider a store is kinda packed.

Can't it also be done by using the sizes of the biggest and smallest sizes of the stores in Undertale?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, that's why.

Even a large plane wouldn't take up very much of even an average mall, which is why we can't really assume the size of the building as proof of anything.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

And do we know how big said store is? Because I don't recall any mention of anything other than Tsunderplane causing a huge line at the store.

This is getting horrendus now, we can see clear as day that Tsundere plane is of compareable size to Frisk. Yet somehow it is still the size of a Plane? I feel like you're grasping at straws here. There is no evidence which suggests in the slightest that Tsundereplane is the size of a plane apart from it's name.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is getting horrendus now, we can see clear as day that Tsundere plane is of compareable size to Frisk. Yet somehow it is still the size of a Plane? I feel like you're grasping at straws here. There is no evidence which suggests in the slightest that Tsundereplane is the size of a plane apart from it's name.

I never said it was the size of a plane? I'm saying using it being able to fit into a store is bad evidence of it having a smaller size if we know nothing about the store.

I don't even know which side I'm on, which is why I'm waiting for Perpetual to answer, since he seems to be against the changes and I would like to know his reasoning.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Azzy

I've been to some really big stores, and there's no way a f**king full-sized plane can fit inside them without destroying things.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

@amm There are many games that have Overworld sprites not be reparative of there in game size(Pokemon...Mother...Off..)

But if that's the only way we can estimate the size then I can't see what's wrong with it...

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

@Azzy
I've been to some really big stores, and there's no way a f**king full-sized plane can fit inside them without destroying things.

He is most likely not talking about commercial airline planes

 

[The_Everlasting]

@EA

Even a large plane wouldn't take up very much of even an average mall, which is why we can't really assume the size of the building as proof of anything.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Using Tsundereplane at the shop does not account for anything regarding size as it only created a line due to being very confused as to what items to buy.

Let's be honest, does Perpetual's word really mean anything at this point in time? Lina's calculation is far more foolproof and concrete than Perpetual due to there being little to no assumptions made at all. Even DT (The leading calc team member) finds this proposal reasonable.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

That is what I was saying.

Because he is still a respected member of the team who I would like to give a chance to speak. I'm also pretty sure he had some sort of minor issue with the dimensions used in the calc even ignoring everything else, so I'd like to hear that, too.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

It seems that the sprites of landscapes and monsters in undertale represent their real sizes...I don't know why it's assumed that tsundere plane has to be the same size of a normal plane, it is a monster after all.

 

[Verivici]

bumpity bumpa

 

[Fllflourine]

Lina's calc imo makes more sense than the old one Perp made due to it making a lot less assumptions, thus making it more concrete, like the OP said. Tsunderplane IIRC, also isn't the size of a real plane, as it was described as going into a supposedly normal sized store, and going out of that said store without any hussle. Also, in the overworld, it's only slightly larger than Frisk.

Correct me if I'm wrong.