Jepilstiltskin
He/Him- 655
- 260
No chit-chats.
So, we know about Sans breaking the fourth-wall mechanic thing, right? Well, aside from the fact that this guy does it better than basically everyone in Undertale, he also subsequently does it better than pretty much everyone in Deltarune. The reason is fairly simple. Smooth as a spoon.
We know Sans is an Undertale guy, but he also appears in Deltarune, which unfortunately makes him a Deltarune guy too. Naturally, one of the questions people keep asking whenever Sans theories start breeding like rabbits is: “Is this the same Sans from Nutdealer?”
Now, I'm not here to say they're literally the same version. But it is important to look at how Toby Fox portrays the character and what his narrative purpose is. Because everything we see from Sans in Deltarune is basically just Sans from Nude Alert dropped into a different game. His entire purpose is still to be a comedic nuisance and ruin the player's experience whenever possible. The guy exists purely to troll.
This becomes pretty obvious in Deltarune when he starts pulling off weird magical nonsense that would require actual magical nonsense as he did in Dealernut, despite the setting not really operating on the same magical assumptions as Neuter Lad. Yet somehow Sans is still Sans in both settings. So okay, Sans can apparently mess with the fourth wall in Deltarune. What does that have to do with De Real Nut Sans? Well, pretty much everything.
As I said before, the characterization and narrative intent are basically identical. Deltarune Sans is still the same archetype: the guy who understands the game better than everyone else and takes advantage of it whenever he can. Now, regarding the argument of “Well, maybe Sans just has magic and we don't know why”...
First off, that's a headcanon. Second, Undertail itself doesn't really support that interpretation. Gerson describes this sort of thing as knowledge rather than magic. Once a character understands the rules, they can start navigating around them. Gerson knows he's in a shop, therefore he knows we can't attack him while he's there. That's not some cosmic superpower. That's basically just knowing where the loophole is and parking your car in it. And this is evidently true, because almost nobody in the setting actually knows about the system in the first place. Since they lack that knowledge, they fight exactly how you'd expect normal fodders to fight (no turn-based perception).
The 20th century invented many things. One of them was loopholes. And that's pretty much what Sans does. He doesn't necessarily overpower the system. He strolls around it.
Which is why I think the argument in this thread is fundamentally flawed. There's some truth to the claim that this isn't literal Law Manipulation, since nothing is actually being rewritten. Fair enough. But reducing everything to “Sans is just fast” or “the player lowered their guard” feels like oversimplifying the character to an almost comical degree.
His entire gimmick is breaking mechanics, that's the joke, that's the character. That's the reason people have been talking about him for ten years. So treating all of that as if it's just conventional speed or battle IQ misses the point entirely. It feels like the kind of analysis you get when someone watched a YouTube summary and immediately decided they understood Undertable better than Toby Fox.
So yeah, I think the ability removed in that thread should probably be restored.
And because this behavior shows up in Deltarune as well (where it doesn't appear to be dependent on conventional magical powers) I also think there's a reasonable argument for some form of Resistance to Power Nullification. The guy keeps pulling the same nonsense regardless of what system he's standing in.
Now for the fun part. The 10th Anniversary content gives us more Sans material, but I don't think people are looking at the funniest implication. Everyone focuses on Sans fighting, but what if his actual win condition is simply refusing to fight? Think about it. Sans can engage us in battle, then effectively leave the battle and force us into fighting literal nothingness instead. And somehow this results in us being the ones who end up fleeing. Which is hilarious, because throughout Undertale, whenever the opponent runs away or quits the fight, that should immediately count as our victory. That's how the system works every time and always. Except Sans apparently looked at that rule and said, “Nah”.
The guy somehow manages to violate the battle system so hard that the battle system itself becomes confused. This is probably the same principle behind him shoving us around the battle box and forcing us fleeing the figh, which shouldn't even be possible.
So what we're looking at here is a character who can potentially win by simply leaving. It isn't out-of-character of him anyway (well, he did it in the game, meaning it's in-character after all!), he's lazy, he knows the odds are against him, and he knows fighting seriously is usually a bad investment. So instead, he weaponizes the game's own mechanics and turns “I'm going home” into a legitimate strategy. Which, if true, might make Sans the first character in VS Battles history whose greatest win condition is simply telling the SBA rules to “go cry me a river, buddy”.
Anyway, here are the changes:
So, we know about Sans breaking the fourth-wall mechanic thing, right? Well, aside from the fact that this guy does it better than basically everyone in Undertale, he also subsequently does it better than pretty much everyone in Deltarune. The reason is fairly simple. Smooth as a spoon.
We know Sans is an Undertale guy, but he also appears in Deltarune, which unfortunately makes him a Deltarune guy too. Naturally, one of the questions people keep asking whenever Sans theories start breeding like rabbits is: “Is this the same Sans from Nutdealer?”
Now, I'm not here to say they're literally the same version. But it is important to look at how Toby Fox portrays the character and what his narrative purpose is. Because everything we see from Sans in Deltarune is basically just Sans from Nude Alert dropped into a different game. His entire purpose is still to be a comedic nuisance and ruin the player's experience whenever possible. The guy exists purely to troll.
This becomes pretty obvious in Deltarune when he starts pulling off weird magical nonsense that would require actual magical nonsense as he did in Dealernut, despite the setting not really operating on the same magical assumptions as Neuter Lad. Yet somehow Sans is still Sans in both settings. So okay, Sans can apparently mess with the fourth wall in Deltarune. What does that have to do with De Real Nut Sans? Well, pretty much everything.
As I said before, the characterization and narrative intent are basically identical. Deltarune Sans is still the same archetype: the guy who understands the game better than everyone else and takes advantage of it whenever he can. Now, regarding the argument of “Well, maybe Sans just has magic and we don't know why”...
First off, that's a headcanon. Second, Undertail itself doesn't really support that interpretation. Gerson describes this sort of thing as knowledge rather than magic. Once a character understands the rules, they can start navigating around them. Gerson knows he's in a shop, therefore he knows we can't attack him while he's there. That's not some cosmic superpower. That's basically just knowing where the loophole is and parking your car in it. And this is evidently true, because almost nobody in the setting actually knows about the system in the first place. Since they lack that knowledge, they fight exactly how you'd expect normal fodders to fight (no turn-based perception).
The 20th century invented many things. One of them was loopholes. And that's pretty much what Sans does. He doesn't necessarily overpower the system. He strolls around it.
Which is why I think the argument in this thread is fundamentally flawed. There's some truth to the claim that this isn't literal Law Manipulation, since nothing is actually being rewritten. Fair enough. But reducing everything to “Sans is just fast” or “the player lowered their guard” feels like oversimplifying the character to an almost comical degree.
His entire gimmick is breaking mechanics, that's the joke, that's the character. That's the reason people have been talking about him for ten years. So treating all of that as if it's just conventional speed or battle IQ misses the point entirely. It feels like the kind of analysis you get when someone watched a YouTube summary and immediately decided they understood Undertable better than Toby Fox.
So yeah, I think the ability removed in that thread should probably be restored.
And because this behavior shows up in Deltarune as well (where it doesn't appear to be dependent on conventional magical powers) I also think there's a reasonable argument for some form of Resistance to Power Nullification. The guy keeps pulling the same nonsense regardless of what system he's standing in.
Now for the fun part. The 10th Anniversary content gives us more Sans material, but I don't think people are looking at the funniest implication. Everyone focuses on Sans fighting, but what if his actual win condition is simply refusing to fight? Think about it. Sans can engage us in battle, then effectively leave the battle and force us into fighting literal nothingness instead. And somehow this results in us being the ones who end up fleeing. Which is hilarious, because throughout Undertale, whenever the opponent runs away or quits the fight, that should immediately count as our victory. That's how the system works every time and always. Except Sans apparently looked at that rule and said, “Nah”.
The guy somehow manages to violate the battle system so hard that the battle system itself becomes confused. This is probably the same principle behind him shoving us around the battle box and forcing us fleeing the figh, which shouldn't even be possible.
So what we're looking at here is a character who can potentially win by simply leaving. It isn't out-of-character of him anyway (well, he did it in the game, meaning it's in-character after all!), he's lazy, he knows the odds are against him, and he knows fighting seriously is usually a bad investment. So instead, he weaponizes the game's own mechanics and turns “I'm going home” into a legitimate strategy. Which, if true, might make Sans the first character in VS Battles history whose greatest win condition is simply telling the SBA rules to “go cry me a river, buddy”.
Anyway, here are the changes:
Fourth Wall Awareness (Combat-Applicable: Winks at the Player and talks to them,[6] other than noticing if they hack the game[7] Can attack from the menu and within the very idea of doing actions.[1] Could interject in the Game Over screen if he kills Frisk during their Mercy.[1] With his Special Attack, he is capable of indefinitely extending his turn by not taking it,[1] ensuring that the enemy cannot attack, use equipment, talk, use abilities and interact with Sans.[1] Sans is the only monster that actually starts the battle with his turn, and making an unavoidable attack after Frisk spares him. As per his character, fighting is necessarily not in his favor. He can simply walked out of the fight and still resulting in him winning the battle. In the same way, he can forcefully end the fight by making the player leave the box)
- Unconventional Resistance to Power Nullification (Breaking the mechanics is implied to be based on knowledge rather than magic, as it can be utilized even if the settings lack magical properties. Most characters are unaware of the system's existence and therefore fight normally, while those with knowledge of it can exploit its rules and loopholes)
