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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

StrymULTRA said:
Ok lil' bro. I'll make this super clear so that I'll avoid being needessly pissed off.

You can check the Note 2 of this for all the proofs of the Player existing in-verse. If you disagree, just make a CRT, or stfu. Thank you.
Click to expand...
WHile true, i can't help but wonder what is Chara's relationship with Frisk when the player isn't involved......but i suppose we will never know
 
I don't think Flowey was talking to a Player controlled Frisk when addressing us in his speech. The Player is stuck in the Underground or something if I had to guess.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
I don't think Flowey was talking to a Player controlled Frisk when addressing us, the Player is stuck on the Underground or something if I had to guess.
Click to expand...
This is strawmanning. Nobody ever told that Flowey was talking to a "Player-controlled Frisk", just to the former, literally how 4th wall breaking characters just look at the screen and talk with us.

How did you even got this conclusion...?
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
So Post-Pacifist Frisk is not Player controlled, yes.
Click to expand...
This... does not mean anything however. Post-Pacifist Frisk is not freed from our control, we just don't see them anymore because the story ended, like we don't "control" the MC of games after that the story ends because we don't have anything to do in the game anymore.

We can take control of them again anytime with the TRUE RESET, something that indeed does affect also them.

Tho I don't get you pointing it out, what's exactly the purpose?
 
I meant that while the Player can regain control, Post-Pacifist Frisk ultimately does become their own person and are capable of making their own choices independently of us.
So technically speaking we aren't a "core part" of Frisk.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The thing is that Frisk is always our puppet, as the Player is a core part of them.
Click to expand...
But they still have a personality of their own

All we have is Chara talking to the Player, never to Frisk, which is why i expressed my curiosity on how they would interact

that is if you don't believe Nara Chara theory, because if so they kind of interact
 
"Gets defeated by m__o I guess"? Did Toby censor an important name?

"I was given the broad theme of "cyber world" and told to pretty much just design whatever I wanted, expecting only a handful to actually make it in. I made all of these within a couple days, just making whatever came to my mind."
Toby was GIVEN the theme? So, he maybe didn't plan to design the Dark Worlds around entertainment? Is someone else helping him craft their themes?

"Painter, would basically be like Adeleine but with crude ms paint effects, especially the airbrush."

This would've been neat to see. Also, I wonder if that means Toby has some history with the airbrush, lol?

""Data", little icon like creatures who march onwards with unknown purpose. they take part in the festival."

There was planned to be a festival in Chapter 2? Or would they be brought to Castle Town & the festival happens there??

"Masked Dancers, they participate in the festival, each colour has a different movement pattern and dance style. very rough concept"

More implications of Chapter 2 Festival.
Or was it because there is/was meant to be a festival in Chapter 2? Was this why Cyber City had fireworks & a ferris wheel?

"Chess also drew Berdly's original Dark World sprite.

(... And provided an option for his Dark World outfit to just be him with an extra shirt pocket...)"

This is hilarious to me. Never doubt the potential of extra storage space!
"There, that's a good chunk of the most interesting concept art!

Perhaps in the future I can show you the messy leftovers that aren't included here...!

Thanks for looking!"

Oh so there's more concept art yet to be seen.


"After creating UNDERTALE, one of my goals for DELTARUNE was for players to finally be able to challenge a "real" version of Mettaton NEO that didn't just end in one turn. For that purpose, I actually created a few music mockups for an extended version of Power of NEO.

There's even another one from 2016 (lol)

… Unfortunately, try I might, I could never create a full-length version of the song that I was satisfied with. Eventually, the boss concept evolved to involve Spamton, and with that, the music changed as well.

I still like the last half of the song. The guitar section was inspired by Brandish's song "Ending 2". All of it is pretty placeholder though.

It's still fun to imagine fighting something to this... Though, if I was given another opportunity to extend POWER OF NEO, I would probably do something different."


Toby wasn't satisfied with the music, so we haven't gotten Mettaton Neo & got Spamton instead. Kinda disappointing in a way.

Chapter 5
A balloon
Anyone not working on localization, console porting, or fixes, is now working on Chapter 5. This will be the main focus for us moving forward.
I'm really excited to see this Chapter get made!

Maybe soon we'll get Chapter 5 teasers, lol.

The image from the section about Chapter 4 is interesting, too:

Chapter 4
Noelle pointing a flashlight at her face
Why would this exist? It's fully sprited, with a background. Like it's taken out of context.
The background has giant presents, but Noelle is in her light world clothes, suggesting this is a party with really high-class gifts.

Is this something to do with the mansion intruder? No way Noelle's birthday is around this time, right?

Heck, it's weird in combination with the rainy day image we saw for Chapter 4. Does Chapter 4 involve Kris & Susie going through the rain to some party place where Noelle will be but then it's surprisingly dark & creepy?

& Chapter 5's image is a moving balloon. Is 1 of them about like, a birthday party & then the other's about the town festival?



Re-asking this stuff because I'm interested in it & it feels like a lot of it got drowned out. Sorry for any bother, all.
 
Was pondering the Oblivion Theory, & a curiousity came to mind.

Doesn't the birdcage's flavor text & appearance imply it's old? Yet its purpose is seemingly only to hold the SOUL. Maybe to try & get rid of it. Tear it out, send it away, it somehow comes back?

If the player doesn't belong, & the SOUL is the player, then why does Kris have that birdcage? What was the birdcage used for before? Or does the SOUL belong to Kris?
Feels kind of like a contradiction.
 
Imaginym said:
Was pondering the Oblivion Theory, & a curiousity came to mind.

Doesn't the birdcage's flavor text & appearance imply it's old? Yet its purpose is seemingly only to hold the SOUL. Maybe to try & get rid of it. Tear it out, send it away, it somehow comes back?

If the player doesn't belong, & the SOUL is the player, then why does Kris have that birdcage? What was the birdcage used for before? Or does the SOUL belong to Kris?
Feels kind of like a contradiction.
Click to expand...
It was probably a birdcage before Kris put his SOUL in it.
 
Chianli said:
Reading the Oblivion theory, it sure seems to actually sounds cohesive & genuinely thought provoking for how DELTARUNE is shaping up to be.
Click to expand...
It's cool but I disagree with it.

Deltarune isn't a story revolving around the player, the characters are there too. The Vessel has nothing to do with Kris, Susie or Noelle. It's only related to the player and it'd be more interesting for the Knight to be actually connected to the characters as well instead.
 
Imaginym said:
Personally, I'm not sure I'd be happy if what it speculates were the reality.

I guess it'd be good that'd be about the joys & greatness of making the video game... but another story about the flaws & futility of Escapism?
Perhaps it was original in concept & at conception -& Deltarune IS original in other ways- but it feels like a very tired theme at this point.
Click to expand...
Deltarune is definitely about escapism in many ways, the dark worlds definitely represent escapism and all that.
 
Imaginym said:
Was pondering the Oblivion Theory, & a curiousity came to mind.

Doesn't the birdcage's flavor text & appearance imply it's old? Yet its purpose is seemingly only to hold the SOUL. Maybe to try & get rid of it. Tear it out, send it away, it somehow comes back?

If the player doesn't belong, & the SOUL is the player, then why does Kris have that birdcage? What was the birdcage used for before? Or does the SOUL belong to Kris?
Feels kind of like a contradiction.
Click to expand...
maybe it was self harm stuff
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera said:
It was probably a birdcage before Kris put his SOUL in it.
Click to expand...
for a non-existent bird, by the way the birdcage has a blood (?) stain next to it and it has experienced multiple crashes before
 
Ti58 said:
Deltarune is definitely about escapism in many ways, the dark worlds definitely represent escapism and all that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but it's still not a theme I like. It gets used a lot. Seen it so much as is. Final Fantasy Tactics springs to mind, among others.
Ti58 said:
maybe it was self harm stuff
Click to expand...
Maybe? Kris kind of has an interest in knives, but I can't see how they'd go for wagon & birdcage first.
Like, the wagon with the birdcage is described as though it's seen a fair number of crashes.

If Kris sat behind the birdcage in the wagon & the wagon slammed into a rock, MAYBE the birdcage could get launched into their chin & bleed onto it?
If they sat in front of it, it might bash into their back.

But otherwise, I'm not sure how one would employ a birdcage & a wagon for self-harm stuff, especially in a narratively relevant & fitting way given what we've seen so far.

Yet what resembles a blood stain is on the floor of their room, so it's probably not from the crashes.
But did Kris seem to bleed when removing the SOUL in the cutscene(s) we saw?
Ti58 said:
for a non-existent bird, by the way the birdcage has a blood (?) stain next to it and it has experienced multiple crashes before
Click to expand...
It'd be crazy if they just had a pet bird that ended up with little to remember it by other than a rusty cage & a stain on the floor.
In fact, it's too crazy to believe, I think.


To be honest, I wonder why the birdcage is rusty. How long should that normally take?
How long has Kris had the SOUL?

Would they leave it out in the rain for some reason to abandon it? Toss it into the lake?

Or, given these:

1. The apparent connection of water to Darkness in this.
2. Onion seemingly hearing a song from down in the sea
3. This is in the same town as what is presumably Gaster's underground bunker.
4. Underground & deep sea are likely both at similarly low elevations, so both may have a connection to Darkness.

....What if they found it in the water? IDK.

Like, why would they have it in the first place? Toriel is often strangely hands off, but Sans just opened his General Store, right?
Was it something they brought with them? Where did they get this bird cage, & why?
 
Well guys, it happened.

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