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Umineko: When The Revisions Cry

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I have already asked the experts to chime in here via notifications.
 
@Username notifications are better, but only staff can use them.
 
Okay. No problem. You can ask present staff members to handle it though.
 
The reason for Creator being 0 is because he's unbounded and beyond any and all restrictions, even compared to High 1A characters that are still bounded by restrictions. The entire 1st page of this CRT was spent discussing this.
 
I am personally fine with Ovy7's conclusions.
 
It should probably be enough for an uncertain rating at least.
 
Antvasima said:
It should probably be enough for an uncertain rating at least.
Click to expand...
I just have a problem with understanding this reasoning.
You can be unbound by any restriction sure, that'll make you powerful and I agree with that.
But does being unbound really mean that Creator transcends Featherine in a way that High 1-A characters transcend 1-A characters?
 
Being unbounded by the things that bound High 1As is enough for 0 if clear enough, yes, in a similar way that being unbounded by the things that bound 1As would make you HIgh 1A (look at Overvoid, for example).

And also what implies that Maria would be on the same level in terms of powers as the Creator?
Click to expand...
The Creator's TIPs page itself in the novel and all the things surrounding Maria as the Witch Of Origins. We are told that her destiny/potential is to become a Creator since like Ep3 IIRC. Hell, Creator's profile picture comes from one of those explanations and the white figure in it is meant to be Maria.
 
Well, it's mostly that Third Domain and Kingdom of God are very vague; with each having "infinite layers" like Witch Domain being arguable in a lot of ways.

Going by the current interpretation, he gets a "possibly 0" because being beyond all restrictions of High 1-As should give you tier 0, but we don't really have a sense of hierarchy or things like "will never reach Creator".
 
Ovy7 said:
Being unbounded by the things that bound High 1As is enough for 0 if clear enough, yes, in a similar way that being unbounded by the things that bound 1As would make you HIgh 1A (look at Overvoid, for example).
Click to expand...
Overvoid shouldn't be High 1-A in my opinion, but this is another topic.
I'm just reading this definition here:
0 | Boundless: Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels.
characters at this level must transcend High 1-A characters as High 1-A characters would transcend 1-A ones.

You can say that this means that the Creator is Tier 0, but honestly "being unbound by restrictions", isn't something I consider to be "enough" to think that he transcends High 1-A characters in the way they transcend 1-A characters.
 
OfficialGilgamesh said:
I just have a problem with understanding this reasoning.
You can be unbound by any restriction sure, that'll make you powerful and I agree with that.
But does being unbound really mean that Creator transcends Featherine in a way that High 1-A characters transcend 1-A characters?
Click to expand...
A single line saying that does not, but as you can see in Umineko and DC (with The Writer), when a "god" is in a level that the all H1As of their verse are below them, to the point that adding new H1As wouldn't reach this "god" level due to verse-mechanics, a "possible 0" rating is possible, at least that is how i explain these things to myself.
 
transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels.
Click to expand...
But this is exactly what The Creator is, the unbounded nothingness beyond all of existence even to beings on High 1A lvls like Featherine's True Form.
 
XDragnoir said:
A single line saying that does not, but as you can see in Umineko and DC (with The Writer), when a "god" is in a level that the all H1As of their verse are below them, to the point that adding new H1As wouldn't reach this "god" level due to verse-mechanics, a "possible 0" rating is possible, at least that is how i explain these things to myself.
Click to expand...
Yeah in my opinion the Writer shouldn't even have a profile in DC, as he's based on a quote by Grant Morrison and this one issue from Animal Man. The Writer was also killed later, of course you could say that this was just an avatar of him, but even he himself called himself a demiurge.
 
Ovy7 said:
But this is exactly what The Creator is, the unbounded nothingness beyond all of existence even to beings on High 1A lvls like Featherine's True Form.
Click to expand...
You left out this:
Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels.

When did the Creator show the ability to create/destroy/affect such a level of existence? I'm genuinely asking.

Also you're basically saying that the Creator is the unbounded nothingness, right?
 
OfficialGilgamesh said:
You left out this:
Characters who demonstrate an equivalence to, or can create/destroy/affect, transcendental abstract levels of existence which conceptually stand superior to even High 1-A levels.

When did the Creator show the ability to create/destroy/affect such a level of existence? I'm genuinely asking.
Click to expand...
. . . . The Creator is literally the embodiment of said lvl of existence. Why do you think I've said "the unbounded nothingness beyond all of existence".
 
Yes, because as said again and again, he's beyond any restrictions in the verse, where even HIgh 1A characters have restrictions and are limited, while he isn't.
 
OfficialGilgamesh said:
And that means he transcends High 1-A characters in the way they transcend 1-A characters?
Click to expand...
Restrictions is an important concept of Umineko, it's litteraly what makes you higher than someone else (the less you have, the more powerful you are).

Featherine having less restrictions than the likes of Battler is litteraly making a difference between a High 1-A and a 1-B for example.
 
YuriAkuto said:
This one should work then.

Also Idk if it's just me but the profiles should at least have some scans in their AP justifications imo.
Click to expand...
The profile has the scans, both in the AP justification AND in the gallery. I dunno, probably people aren't even checking them because everything is there.

Also, another pic from the TIPs:
latest
 
Ovy7 said:
The profile has the scans, both in the AP justification AND in the gallery. I dunno, probably people aren't even checking them because everything is there.

Also, another pic from the TIPs:
latest
Click to expand...
First, thanks for the scan. This proves that Maria can maybe one day be at the Creators level. That being said though, is a Creator = Creator?
Because from what I'm reading here, it seems to me that there are already multiple Creators.
 
OfficialGilgamesh said:
First, thanks for the scan. This proves that Maria can maybe one day be at the Creators level. That being said though, is a Creator = Creator?
Because from what I'm reading here, it seems to me that there are already multiple Creators.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know, blame the English translation as the Japanese has singular:
造物主について

造物主は、無の海に１を生み出すことの出来る神聖な存在。

０より１をも、無限をも生み出し、瞬きするように０に戻せる。

あらゆる制約から解き放たれており、航海者たちは特に、神とさえ呼ぶという。

その意味では、原初の魔女マリアは造物主となることを約束された、選ばれし少女なのかもしれない……。

航海者たちは、自らの旅路の終点は、造物主になることだと恐れている。

なぜ、上位の存在に進化することを恐れるのか、当事者以外には理解できない。


About the Creator

The Creator is a sacred being who can create 1 in the sea of nothingness.

It produces 1 from 0, infinity, and return to 0 in the blink of an eye.

Free from all restrictions, the voyagers in particular call him God.

In that sense, the Witch of Origins Maria may be the chosen girl who was promised to be the Creator.

The voyagers fear that the end of their own journey is to become the Creator.

Why they fear evolving into a higher being is incomprehensible to anyone other than those involved.
Click to expand...

There are more mentions in the novel about the Creator where singular is used in the Japanese text, unlike the english one... for some reason.

Edit: Yuri ninjaed me T_T
 
YuriAkuto said:
Creators is a mistranslation, the japanese one is saying it as a singular being.
Click to expand...
So the scan that Ovy7 is using is falsely translated then? Because it clearly speaks of there being already multiple creators.
Also others have already reached the realm of the Creator, so another question for me is, where is it said that Maria won't lose herself?
 
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