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Umineko: When The Revisions Cry

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I am fine if The Creator's profile remains at tier 0; I am also neutral on the tier.

In Maria's case, I think the strongest Creator is hyperbolic because Maria is the one who made the statement. I can accept Maria's statements being normally valid for occults topic but in the context of the conversation, Maria said something like her father was the Holy Ghost and implying that she was born a virgin birth which are false; those statements make me doubt her following statements. I think Maria being just a creator would be more accurate since Beatrice who is an expert said it. I am still fine with High 1-A tier at her peak potential as a creator.
On the author's statements, I don't really found the statements impressive about Maria; roughly all major Meta-beings like Beatrice can create their own realm. I think the statements are highly metaphorical.

The other opening proposals look fine, to me.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I am personally leaning toward tier 0, but it is best if we get some input from @Ultima_Reality .
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Yeah, so, I figure I have to lay down some foundations to explain where The Creator being Tier 0 would come from, in this case.

So, basically, "Featherine" as the personal, active entity which appears in Umineko actually has, just like the Voyager Witches, a true self which exists separately from her physical form as an abstract law which influences the whole setting. Piece describes Featherine as personifying the pillar which sustains the world in Saku, for instance:

私は、尊厳なる観劇と戯曲と傍観の魔女であらせられる、大アウローラ卿よりカケラを預かる使者として生み出されました。 大アウローラ卿が、世界を支える柱という偉大なる蝋燭に灯る炎であるならば、私はこの程度の蝋燭なれど、大アウローラ卿の炎より火を分けられた、分祀されし存在なのでピス。

I was created by none other than the great Lady Aurora, the Grand Witch of Spectating, Drama and Theatergoing, as her emissary. If the great Lady Aurora is the greatly lit candle, the so called pillar that supports the world, then this one is a candle of such degree, however, the flames of the great Lady Aurora is an entirely separate flame.
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This fundamental nature is something that we know must exist independently from Featherine's personal form, given how the novel notes that she constantly dies and resurrects herself because of boredom, with that having no effects in the universe at large. Further than this, it's also stated that her human form isn't actually her real self, and that it's just a shape she assumes to present herself to others.

This isn't just a demonstration of Shapeshifting because Witches as a whole are also stated to be fundamentally human on a mental level, hence why they default to human appearances, and become "scraps of seaweed" in the depths of oblivion if they choose to abandon those forms, basically the closest thing the higher domains have to death. So Featherine's form being pretty much an artifice to her definitely points to something else being at play.

So, finally, we also have this exchange, where "Featherine" switching back and forth between her human and witch identities is compared to how an actor can assume the roles of several different characters if they want to, with Ange even putting emphasis on how both "Tohya Hachijo" in the Human World and "Featherine Augustus Aurora" in the higher worlds are just temporary identities being assumed by something else, hence the difference between the higher and lower planes is trivial to her, and going from one to the other is "just like having a slightly different background behind the stage."

All of this is referenced pretty often by Ryukishi in several interviews, where he explains that his characters have so many expies throughout several different works because they are being played by the same "Actor."

07th-expansion.fandom.com

Ryukishi07 Interviews (Epitanime 2012)

This is a series of interviews of Ryukishi07 and Witch Hunt conducted at the French anime convention Epitanime on May 26 and 27, 2012. The first interview concerns what Ryukishi did before making When They Cry, his thoughts on the franchise becoming as popular as it is, and his new work Rose...
07th-expansion.fandom.com 07th-expansion.fandom.com

21/ In Rose Guns Days, there is a character that has a striking resemblance to Battler, even the name is similar, is it the same person?

He likes to have old characters appear in newer works. He answered that you need to think of the characters in his works as actors of a movie. Now that Umineko is over, the actor playing Battler is now playing another role.
Click to expand...

So, TL;DR: Featherine's true nature is an abstract force which sustains the whole setting while existing beyond the three domains, and perceiving the difference between them as being meaningless, as "Featherine Augustus Aurora" herself is also just a temporary identity being played by this force. Given how her being 1-A+ seems to be something nobody has any issue with, then that fundamental entity would be High 1-A, in my view.

Now, the issue is that we don't ******* know where exactly Featherine's "actor" is placed in the cosmology, or how it relates to The Creator, especially given how vague both of them are, hence why I am neutral on whether or not the latter can be Tier 0 based on scaling from the former, like people said above.
 
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Ovy7 said:
Lambda's diary doesn't talk about the Kingdom of God, as far as I remember. Heck, it doesn't even talk about the 3rd Domain, just that she'll use Beato's increasing potential to see if something like the 3rd Domain exists (she doesn't seem to know about its existence
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It does, though. Lambda directly talks about how the Gods and The Creator reside in a state of absolute nonexistence devoid of any restrictions or limitations that could define them as "beings" in the first place, hence why she says the Gods lost even the concept of meaning or an existential footing beneath their feet and "crumbled into the limits of zero."

This state is just explicitly named as "The Kingdom of God" (or "The Land of the Gods") later on, but that doesn't mean the latter is a different thing from what is described in Lambda's Memoirs, or that The Creator is beyond it.
 
Even in that scenario, that won't change the core difference between them, that one (Featherine) is still having restrictions while the other (Creator) is beyond/freed from all restrictions.
 
Finally, ever since I joined this site two years ago, I've been hearing about the Umineko revisions, and having them here is sure a view to enjoy. I personally think Creator should "At least High 1-A, possibly 0" as some said above, but I agree with all the other stuff.
 
I'm still strongly in support of them being straight up Tier 0. The Creator meets up to every qualification of being such so there's no reason why they should not be a solid 0 tier.
 
Not really tho. He would meet them if his relationship with Featherine's "actor" was known, but as Ultima said, that whole thing is super vague. Tier 0 is a big boy tier, so i'd rather play safe.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Not really tho. He would meet them if his relationship with Featherine's "actor" was known, but as Ultima said, that whole thing is super vague. Tier 0 is a big boy tier, so i'd rather play safe.
Click to expand...
IDK man, to me it is pretty clear cut that The Creator completely dwarfs Featherine and that the two aren't in any way comparable. I don't see how such a relationship can be "vague" like you are describing it.
 
I mean, i think it would make sense, but also we don't really have any outright confirmartion like that.
 
We got confirmation that Featherine reached the last boundary but didn't reach the Creator, as she would have lost her will, meaning, etc. Then the fact that her True Form, the Actor, is councious enough to not care about the difference between its roles/avatars/Pieces, nor about the difference between the domains, means it has a will, a meaning, so the first sentence applies to it too so Featherine's True Form is still bound by restrictions, while the Creator is beyond and freed from any and all restrictions.

My knowledge of TES is pretty limited, but to me the case of Featherine and the Creator sounds similar to the case between Anu/Padome and Amaranth/ANU, where the former are conceptual laws that guvern creation, but are still restricted in a way or another, while the latter is the pure nothingness/uncouncious Godhead beyond any and all restrictions.
 
Well, to me it seems like The Creator is tier 0, but if the rest of you think that it is safer to go with "At least High 1-A, likely 0", I suppose that I am outvoted.
 
Ovy7 said:
We got confirmation that Featherine reached the last boundary but didn't reach the Creator, as she would have lost her will, meaning, etc. Then the fact that her True Form, the Actor, is councious enough to not care about the difference between its roles/avatars/Pieces, nor about the difference between the domains, means it has a will, a meaning, so the first sentence applies to it too so Featherine's True Form is still bound by restrictions, while the Creator is beyond and freed from any and all restrictions.

My knowledge of TES is pretty limited, but to me the case of Featherine and the Creator sounds similar to the case between Anu/Padome and Amaranth/ANU, where the former are conceptual laws that guvern creation, but are still restricted in a way or another, while the latter is the pure nothingness/uncouncious Godhead beyond any and all restrictions.
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These seem to be good points.
 
I'd be fine with At least High 1-A, likely 0.

Besides that, anything else left to be done?
 
Creator's tier seems pretty much decided, and it's not like we'll get new info about them soon.
Higurashi anime don't make me wrong pls
 
Would you be willing to apply the revisions Ovy7 and YuriAkuto?
 
Yes. We already have most of the profiles updated in sandboxes, so me, Yuri, and Ultima (he also said he wants to help IIRC) would apply the changes.
 
Bullet dodging not necessarily supersonic, and we shouldn't calc tremors from a thing like that the way we calc an earthquake because earthquakes are really deep
 
Yup.
Should we just copy/paste the sandboxes we have?
Click to expand...

I think the profiles should first be unlocked, as IIRC most of them are locked to Rollback too. Then yeah, we should update the profiles to what we have in the sandboxes by copy-pasting the stuff. There are also new profiles in those sandboxes which would have their own pages.

We also need to decide who is doing which profiles. I guess me and Ultima are gonna do our sandboxes first (my sandbox, and Ultima's), then we'll need to divide Ed's sandbox between us, as it's much bigger, and there's also Crimson's sandbox.
 
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Wokistan said:
Bullet dodging not necessarily supersonic
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There are direct supersonic statements IIRC, so it's not just the bullet-dodging thing.

Edit: There's also those bullet dodging feats:
J95N01o.png

WTCP2jG.png

Jpj3qkr.png

NyUksY3.png

I also think there's a point where they see bullets as froze in time, but IIRC those aren't the normal Purgatory Sisters (but amped by being Ange's Furnitures/servants).
 
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As long as I can do Lambdadelta's profile I'm fine with this.
Also isn't Lion Street level? Y'know, he pinch hard.
 
I think Bern and Lambda are in Ultima's sandbox, you may wanna ask for his permision.

We also need all the Umineko pages unlocked, cause they can only be edited by Content Moderators I think.

Edit: I've posted Rosa's page.
 
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Can somebody please write a list of the EXACT page titles for all of the pages that need to be unlocked, so the automated script that I use can handle it? Again, you have to write the titles exactly as they appear in the wiki.
 
The Creator
Featherine Augustus Aurora
Ange Ushiromiya
Battler Ushiromiya
Lambdadelta
Bernkastel
Wild Cats
Beatrice (Umineko)
Eva-Beatrice
Maria Ushiromiya
Erika Furudo
Willard H. Wright
Dlanor A. Knox
Virgilia
Theory Goats
Kinzo Ushiromiya
Rudolf Ushiromiya
Kyrie Ushiromiya
The Seven Stakes of Purgatory
 
Thank you, but several of those are simply the names of the characters, not the names of the profile pages themselves. Please try again, as my script cannot handle the format that you supplied in those cases.
 
I received the following message:

"Any errors encountered will appear below
Failed to protect The Creator: missingtitle-createonly
Failed to protect Wild Cats: missingtitle-createonly
Failed to protect Beatrice (Umineko): missingtitle-createonly"
 
Ovy7:

Thank you. I have unlocked all of the listed pages. Tell me here when you are done.
 
I'll be busy right now for a few hours, so I can't edit them. I've done Featherine, Creator, Kinzo, and the Wild Cats (along with the pages I wrote about in my comments above), if Yuri wants to, he can take the rest of the pages.
 
I'm done with Ed sandbox, others pages in it are those which don't exist yet.

Edit: Done with Crimson's.
 
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