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Ulquiorra vs Lucifero

And honestly I don't see the whole Lucifero can't crush people that some of y'all are trying to make.

We know Gravity can kill people (Dante with half his power did so) and we know that even Incomplete Lucifero's passive Gravity is leagues beyond Dante's Gravity Pressure.

The only character that were seen surviving his Gravity are people who have mean to do so either by surviving via temporary Immortality (the captains) or fate manip (Black Bulls), by negating the Gravity (Asta, Yuno) or simply being physically strong enough (Mereoleona, Nacht and Yami)
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
My brother in Christ Lucifero’s Aura is fundamentally sheer gravity pressure. It doesn’t matter if it didn’t kill people who amped up their strength to withstand it or used law and fate manipulation to evade it or nullify it’s effect on themselves. Ulquiorra ******* dies.
Click to expand...
Don't see that in profile so you can make a CRT for Lucifero Law Manipulation and fate manipulation and argue that later but currently going by profile he doesn't.

Also mind sending the scan for Passive Gravity crush.
Arkenis said:
You don't seem to understand how gravity works. If the force is greater than something Ulq can withstand he's getting crushed by it.
Click to expand...
There are multiple characters in Black Clover who survived that and his range is 4Km where Ulqiorra Soul crush range is 13km diameter there is a big difference.

Also mind anyone showing scan for he passively crushing someone with his gravity manipulation instead of using it willingly by his own command?

Here he clearly commanded others even after manifestation and no one before that got crushed
 
Epsilon_R said:
And honestly I don't see the whole Lucifero can't crush people that some of y'all are trying to make.

We know Gravity can kill people (Dante with half his power did so) and we know that even Incomplete Lucifero's passive Gravity is leagues beyond Dante's Gravity Pressure.

The only character that were seen surviving his Gravity are people who have mean to do so either by surviving via temporary Immortality (the captains) or fate manip (Black Bulls), by negating the Gravity (Asta, Yuno) or simply being physically strong enough (Mereoleona, Nacht and Yami)
Click to expand...
I don’t think that’s the argument. We are arguing it’s not a passive thing like Reiatsu Crush is and he has to actively activate the ability. If you can prove that it’s passive then this would just be an icon due to them both killing each other.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Don't see that in profile so you can make a CRT for Lucifero Law Manipulation and fate manipulation and argue that later but currently going by profile he doesn't.
Click to expand...

?

What in the actual **** are you talking about? Lucifero doesn’t have law manipulation. I know you have sound comprehension so please go back read again and respond to what I actually said.
 
Arcker123 said:
Because they're both soul manipulation and resisted the same way 🗿. I don't understand why this is an argument.

Incon Ig. They both passively kill each other.
Click to expand...
Just because they target the same thing doesn't mean they have the same effects.

For instance, you don't get resistance to soul-based Sleep Manipulation just because you can resist having your soul torn to shreds. That's nonsensical
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Don't see that in profile so you can make a CRT for Lucifero Law Manipulation and fate manipulation and argue that later but currently going by profile he doesn't.
Click to expand...
You completely misunderstood what he said

EldemadeDityjon said:
Here he clearly commanded others even after manifestation and no one before that got crushed
Click to expand...
He was still manifesting, as the ball was still here
 
Epsilon_R said:
And honestly I don't see the whole Lucifero can't crush people that some of y'all are trying to make.

We know Gravity can kill people (Dante with half his power did so) and we know that even Incomplete Lucifero's passive Gravity is leagues beyond Dante's Gravity Pressure.

The only character that were seen surviving his Gravity are people who have mean to do so either by surviving via temporary Immortality (the captains) or fate manip (Black Bulls), by negating the Gravity (Asta, Yuno) or simply being physically strong enough (Mereoleona, Nacht and Yami)
Click to expand...

The fact you have to state too much gravity crushing a body kills is so embarrassing.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
?

What in the actual **** are you talking about? Lucifero doesn’t have law manipulation. I know you have sound comprehension so please go back read again and respond to what I actually said.
Click to expand...
Arnoldstone18 said:
My brother in Christ Lucifero’s Aura is fundamentally sheer gravity pressure. It doesn’t matter if it didn’t kill people who amped up their strength to withstand it or used law and fate manipulation to evade it or nullify it’s effect on themselves. Ulquiorra ******* dies.
Click to expand...
English isn't my first language if i misunderstood this reply sorry. Can you explain what this meant.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
English isn't my first language if i misunderstood this reply sorry. Can you explain what this meant.
Click to expand...

Okay then my bad

People with law and fate manipulation, people with the ability to nullify magic and people with enough physical strength don’t die under Lucifero’s gravity.

That’s why his gravity doesn’t have feats of killing people because nobody is stupid enough to fight him without a plan.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Buddy you know Difference between passive and non passive abilities? That's clearly nowhere stated as Passive. I don't even see how that scan even proving it's passive.
Click to expand...
Please... read again:
Epsilon_R said:
We know Gravity can kill people (Dante with half his power did so) and we know that even Incomplete Lucifero's passive Gravity is leagues beyond Dante's Gravity Pressure.

The only character that were seen surviving his Gravity are people who have mean to do so either by surviving via temporary Immortality (the captains) or fate manip (Black Bulls), by negating the Gravity (Asta, Yuno) or simply being physically strong enough (Mereoleona, Nacht and Yami)
Click to expand...
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Buddy you know Difference between passive and non passive abilities? That's clearly nowhere stated as Passive. I don't even see how that scan even proving it's passive.
Click to expand...

According to arguments, hollow or soul reapers always suppress their aura before battle so they don’t kill people. Aura is only exerted when battle ready. That’s the same for Lucifero. Under SBA he is required to be battle ready.
 
If you somehow still cannot figure it out:
1/2 Manifestation Lucifero > suppressed 1/2 Manifestation Lucifero > Incomplete Lucifero's passive > Dante's Gravity (non passive), which killed Asta

Now, Voting Inconclusive
 
Epsilon_R said:
That still doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Broski talm bout making sense whilst arguing about soul based sleep manip.

Anyways, it's a bad analogy for multiple reasons. For one, sleep manip is an entirely different hax from soul manipulation, and soul based sleep manip just means sleep manip that affects the soul. This is completely different from soul absorption, which actually is soul manip.

Secondly. Both soul crush and gonzui are resisted by reiryoku, which is why they scale. I was talking about the verse mechanics. None of this matters anyhow when Ulq's reiatsu has the range to affect him and Luci has no soul resistance at all.
 
Epsilon_R said:
Please... read again:
Click to expand...
Arnoldstone18 said:
According to arguments, hollow or soul reapers always suppress their aura before battle so they don’t kill people. Aura is only exerted when battle ready. That’s the same for Lucifero. Under SBA he is required to be battle ready.
Click to expand...

So can I see the scans for 4Km range Aura from Lucifero. Ulquiorra Range is 13Km so we can take the max range for SBA as page states.
Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
Click to expand...
 
Epsilon_R said:
Just because they target the same thing doesn't mean they have the same effects.

For instance, you don't get resistance to soul-based Sleep Manipulation just because you can resist having your soul torn to shreds. That's nonsensical
Click to expand...
Tatsuki has Reiryoku/Reiatsu. Also the soul absorption/manipulation is resisted the same way via Reiryoku/Reiatsu that tatsuki possess. In this case it grants her both resistances. Also the Soul Crush is layered tatsuki has some resistance but yammy is still capable of casually crushing her Soul while Not even intentional or battle ready where hes exerting it.
 
Arcker123 said:
Broski talm bout making sense whilst arguing about soul based sleep manip.

Anyways, it's a bad analogy for multiple reasons. For one, sleep manip is an entirely different hax from soul manipulation, and soul based sleep manip just means sleep manip that affects the soul. This is completely different from soul absorption, which actually is soul manip.
Click to expand...
No, Soul Absorption is also Absorption that targets the soul. And again just because both are targetting the same aspect doesn't mean you can get a layer from it.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
So can I see the scans for 4Km range Aura from Lucifero. Ulquiorra Range is 13Km so we can take the max range for SBA as page states.
Click to expand...
Again, you misread. The SBA quite literally says the opposite

Basically if both parties's range is <4k, SBA uses the highest range of the 2. If their range is above 4km, SBA stays at 4km
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
According to arguments, hollow or soul reapers always suppress their aura before battle so they don’t kill people. Aura is only exerted when battle ready. That’s the same for Lucifero. Under SBA he is required to be battle ready.
Click to expand...
That’s not how it works it will still kill anyone who doesn’t have any resistance regardless if they’re battle ready or not. Tatsuki has resistance but yammy since he has higher layers will still passively crush her Soul even When it’s not his intent to do so.
 
Epsilon_R said:
No, Soul Absorption is also Absorption that targets the soul. And again just because both are targetting the same aspect doesn't mean you can get a layer from it.
Click to expand...
Lol. Absorption counts for soul resistance, both onsite (Many characters have resistance for resisting soul sucks) and in Bleach (Due to how reiryoku works and you didn't present an argument against this). Stop arguing this.
 
Arcker123 said:
Lol. Absorption counts for soul resistance, both onsite (Many characters have resistance for resisting soul sucks) and in Bleach (Due to how reiryoku works and you didn't present an argument against this). Stop arguing this.
Click to expand...
Is your vote still for Inconclusive?
 
Epsilon_R said:
Again, you misread. The SBA quite literally says the opposite

Basically if both parties's range is <4k, SBA uses the highest range of the 2. If their range is above 4km, SBA stays at 4km
Click to expand...
Buddy I am asking for Lucifero Presence affecting 4Km range. I know it stays at 4Km at Max.
 
KINGWILLTHEGREAT0815 said:
That’s not how it works it will still kill anyone who doesn’t have any resistance regardless if they’re battle ready or not. Tatsuki has resistance but yammy since he has higher layers will still passively crush her Soul even When it’s not his intent to do so.
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with what I said?
 
Are there any other Black Clover characters who can fight Bleach characters without just dying from soul crushing or whatever
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Don't see that in profile so you can make a CRT for Lucifero Law Manipulation and fate manipulation and argue that later but currently going by profile he doesn't.
Click to expand...
What he's saying is that you need either strength (LS), law or fate manipulation to survive the gravity

Ulquiorra doesn't have the last 2 afaik

If his LS is much weaker than that of Lucifero, he's getting turned into paste

Speaking of which, maybe a LS oneshot gap can also be made
like how we do for AP and Speed (blitz)
 
Testarossa002 said:
Speaking of which, maybe a LS oneshot gap can also be made
like how we do for AP and Speed (blitz)
Click to expand...

Humans can’t survive 5x their own weight. Trained humans 9x iirc. But the difference here in this match is a ton of zeros.

and LS one shot only works for things like gravity but if it’s telekinesis or a grab and you don’t have the AP to harm them, you can only hold them in place not crush em.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Humans can’t survive 5x their own weight. Trained humans 9x iirc. But the difference here in this match is a ton of zeros.

and LS one shot only works for things like gravity but if it’s telekinesis or a grab and you don’t have the AP to harm them, you can only hold them in place not crush em.
Click to expand...
Well
It won't hurt to have some sort of site rule on that anyways
It can result in stomp matches
 
Testarossa002 said:
What he's saying is that you need either strength (LS), law or fate manipulation to survive the gravity

Ulquiorra doesn't have the last 2 afaik

If his LS is much weaker than that of Lucifero, he's getting turned into paste

Speaking of which, maybe a LS oneshot gap can also be made
like how we do for AP and Speed (blitz)
Click to expand...
So is it incon since it's gravity crush vs soul crush?
 
Testarossa002 said:
What he's saying is that you need either strength (LS), law or fate manipulation to survive the gravity

Ulquiorra doesn't have the last 2 afaik

If his LS is much weaker than that of Lucifero, he's getting turned into paste

Speaking of which, maybe a LS oneshot gap can also be made
like how we do for AP and Speed (blitz)
Click to expand...
Arnald clarified

Currently I am still waiting for someone to send a scan for 4Km range for Lucifero Presence crushing others. SBA will be 4Km for this match.
 
Should I make the starting distance 50 meters or specifically make it 4 km?
 
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