Tyranids Vs Gem Empire

[Holyhotsauce]

Can't we all just get along and destroy organic life together? C'mon, it's perfect! The Tyranids numbers, the Gems's Tech, they can't lose! ovo

Yes, the swarms of Gemanids will crush all with a combination of highly adaptable biology and extremely advanced tech

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Gotta say, it's a shame we don't have a profile for Necrons as a whole...

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Actually Gems would probbaly still dominate on the ground, they're way faster than the average Tyranid soldier it seems.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did the Gems get relativistic combat speed off of a piloting feat?

It's like saying IRL humans are able to punch at mach 6 for being able to move around obstacles while in a plane. It definitely qualifies for reaction speed, but not so sure on combat speed/movement speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They get it from dodging an asteroid at point blank range while moving at Relativistic speeds actually

There's also some FTL stuff that is in the works if it ever gets calced

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also they can tag each other in combat, which is why it scales to combat speed

 

[CinnabarManx421]

There's also a laser dodging feat they have that I've been '''trying to get calced for months''' but everybody keeps ignoring me on. If you really wanna stretch it too Steven reacted to the Diamonds attacks a few times so that could also be used to scale.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

They get it from dodging an asteroid at point blank range while moving at Relativistic speeds actually
There's also some FTL stuff that is in the works if it ever gets calced

The ship is moving at relativistic speeds, not the Gems.

It definitely is reaction speed, but dodging the asteroids in a relativistic ship and being able to react to things while moving at relativistic speeds doesn't equal being able to move on your own at relativistic speeds.

Being able to tag eachother in combat means nothing if they have no evidence of being able to move at those speeds by themselves.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Yes, but they still have to react at those speeds to dodge the asteroids. The ship is moving at Relativistic speeds yes, but it's not what's dodging the asteroids, it's the pilot that does that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Gems interface directly with their ships, them piloting their ships scales to their physical reactions

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Yes, but they still have to react at those speeds to dodge the asteroids. The ship is moving at Relativistic speeds yes, but it's not what's dodging the asteroids, it's the pilot that does that.

I am agreeing with you on reaction speed, I already said that

Which, again, is relativistic reaction speeds.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes and Gems regularly tag each other, hence their combat speed scales to reactions

 

[Holyhotsauce]

My computer is almost out of charge and it'll be a few hours before I get home so I won't be able to post.

so uh

brb

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Gotta say, it's a shame we don't have a profile for Necrons as a whole...

The wiki is not yet ready for those crazy mummies.

 

[Enderdragon1201]

Unless Gems are proven to move their bodies at relativistic speeds during combat (no, flight speed for Lapis doesn't count, it's harder to move in a fight than traveling in a mostly straight line through space with no air resistance to worry about) it doesn't matter if they have relativistic reaction speeds. You can have as fast of reaction speed as you want, it doesn't help if your body isn't physically capable of moving out of the way of an attack in time, you'll just be well aware of where and how you are going to get hit before it happens.

Currently voting Tyranids fra.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Yes they can. If you can react at a certain speed and a character can hit you, that means they can fight at that speed. And even then, you can turn that question around. What proves that the Tyranids have Hypersonic+ reactions and combat speed?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ender They do, regularly, and there are multiple FTL speed feats being worked on for them

 

[Enderdragon1201]

@Weekly fair enough, simply stating that reaction speed doesn't directly translate to combat speed.

@Cinnabar That is incorrect. If you can react at light speed but you move your body at the speed of a snail a human can hit you just fine even without moving at light speed. You still have to move your body even if you see something coming. I have no idea what speed the Tyranids generally move at, I was simply commenting that reaction speed doesn't inherently translate to combat speed. I don't know all that much about either side (though I have seen the Steven Universe show) I'm simply voting based on what I've seen above.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

...If you can react at lightspeed but only move your body at the speed of a snail you either didnt react to lightspeed or youre not moving at the speed of a snail. Combat speed and Reaction speed go hand in hand.

 

[Enderdragon1201]

I was referring to Feats based on reacting while in a ship. Yes, you still have to be able to move the controls fairly fast (the snail thing was just an example, not meant to be the same as this situation exactly), but it doesn't need to be nearly as fast.

Reacting to something doesn't mean you dodge it, it simply means you see it coming. If a character sees the Flash as if he was going I slow motion than he's reacting to the Flash, but if he moves at the speed of a human he's still getting slaughtered in a fight. Your body's physical speed and your mental ability to process information such as what's happening in front of you are not inherently connected.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ender Gems physically interface with the ships they pilot, they in essence BECOME the ship and control it as they control themselves.

Seeing something coming doesnt exactly help you dodge it if it is an inch from your face.

 

[Enderdragon1201]

@Weekly once again, not necessarily referring to Gems specifically, just reaction speed and combat speed in general. From what you've said Gems do have relativistic combat feats.

@Cinnabar regardless, seeing something coming does qualify as reacting to that thing, as you perceive it and your brain processes what you are seeing. There is also a debate to be had about how much of a character dodging something while in a vehicle qualifies as a reaction feat (once again, not referring to Gems specifically, just in general), which would likely depend on the vehicle. My point was that there is how fast you can react, and how fast you can move, and that these are not necessarily the same for every character. One example is Sloth from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, he can move so fast he appears to be a blur, but he often misses his opponents when he does because he's moving so fast he himself can't react at the speed he is moving, so he has to be running directly at someone when he starts running, and if they move he misses because he can't react fast enough to change direction. This is an example of the opposite of what I'm talking about, a character with faster combat speed than reaction speed, but it proves the point that reaction speed and combat speed can be different.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I guess I see where you're coming from. Though most of the time a characters combat/reaction speeds are either assumed or proven to be about the same. You can even scale movement/flight speed to reaction speed if you want.

So...are you going to retract/change your vote since we agree on the speed now?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Even fodder Gems like Rubies speedblitz all but the strongest Tyranids

 

[Enderdragon1201]

I do realize that they are usually the same, just wanted to clarify that they aren't always the same.

Speed wasn't what convinced me to vote for the Tyranids, it was the combination of greater numbers, greater intelligence (I'm assuming a hive mind that controls at minimum billions of creatures is more intelligent than any Gem we've seen, especially as they don't make use of the good strategies that have been suggested such as mass replicating things, and since a big part of the themes of the show is that many of them including the Diamonds are actually very immature and childish despite their old age), long range, and ability to rapidly adapt to things. I still think the Tyranids will likely win.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

How are greater numbers going to help the Nids in any way when Gems have stuff that can oneshot everything sans the Swarmlords? How are numbers going to help when Gems speedblitz the Nids to hell and back millions of times over before they can even hope to react?

Gems have planetary to intergalactic range, how is Range gonna help the Nids?

 

[Enderdragon1201]

Also, the fact that a Corrupted Gem got poofed by a pointy stick doesn't exactly bode well for their durability against sharp things. They can take explosions and reentry heat just fine, but sharp things seem to be a problem.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Also I'm pretty sure It's gonna be hard for the Nids to adapt when

A) There's like, 0 biomass in Gem space for them to use to make new soldiers and

B) The Gems basic soldiers are so much stronger than the Tyranids so they'd basically atomize them leaving none for them to take from corpses.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Also, the fact that a Corrupted Gem got poofed by a pointy stick doesn't exactly bode well for their durability against sharp things. They can take explosions and reentry heat just fine, but sharp things seem to be a problem.

...Still doesn't help when they can't be hit in the first place.

 

[Enderdragon1201]

@Weekly considering that Gems can often be seen by regular humans, and humans such as Sadie and Connie occasionally fight with them (and I'm not referring to training, I'm referring to when White Diamond was controlling Pearl and attacked Connie), I'm guessing the Tyranids will be able to handle themselves pretty okay.

What do the Gems have that goes beyond planetary range? If they do have something, I must be forgetting it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, the fact that a Corrupted Gem got poofed by a pointy stick doesn't exactly bode well for their durability against sharp things. They can take explosions and reentry heat just fine, but sharp things seem to be a problem.

Theres this thing called an outlier you know

 

[Enderdragon1201]

@Cinnabar unless Connie and Sadie are relativistic...

Edit: In reply to your last point, I was unaware that Gems have a habit of atomizing their enemies until nothing is left. When does this happen, exactly?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ender Connie Is relativistic actually

And her sword ignores dura against Gems

 

[CinnabarManx421]

@Weekly considering that Gems can often be seen by regular humans, and humans such as Sadie and Connie occasionally fight with them (and I'm not referring to training, I'm referring to when White Diamond was controlling Pearl and attacked Connie), I'm guessing the Tyranids will be able to handle themselves pretty okay.
What do the Gems have that goes beyond planetary range? If they do have something, I must be forgetting it.

That doesn't mean the Gems are slower than they seem, it means the Humans are faster than you'd think. There's this thing called scaling, and it can be used to determine a characters stats in lack of their own feats.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Also, the fact that a Corrupted Gem got poofed by a pointy stick doesn't exactly bode well for their durability against sharp things. They can take explosions and reentry heat just fine, but sharp things seem to be a problem.

This god damn "they're weak against sharp things" argument I swear. I'm mostly staying our of this debate but holy **** is that argument wrong. No 7-A ever should be even remotely threatened by a sharp stick, it's just an outlier.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Weekly considering that Gems can often be seen by regular humans, and humans such as Sadie and Connie occasionally fight with them (and I'm not referring to training, I'm referring to when White Diamond was controlling Pearl and attacked Connie), I'm guessing the Tyranids will be able to handle themselves pretty okay.

What do the Gems have that goes beyond planetary range? If they do have something, I must be forgetting it.

Connie has a sword that ignores dura against Gems and has enough feats of fighting them that it warrants her scaling to them, not that theyre slow. Sadie's feat is a universally accepted outlier. So no, the Nids are going to be blitzed to high hell.

Harmony Cores have galactic range, The Glass of Time is universal, structures like the Clocktower are at least galactic, warships lik ethe Destiny Destroyer are Galactic, hell the Diamonds themselves can surface wipe the Earth from a position well beyond the Moon

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Technically Homeworld has just physically shot stuff at Earth from Homeworld on numerous occasions, Peridot's Robonoids to be exact.

 

[Enderdragon1201]

@Weekly Doesn't change her reacting to Pearl's attack.

@Cinnibar So...Sadie is relativistic then. Sorry, I have a hard time believing a human child and an out of shape donut store worker can move and react at relativistic speeds.

@The Wright Way Gems don't generally seem to have much of a defense against piercing damage. 7A is simply a ranking system used on this wiki, the show creators don't operate based on this tiering system, they simply make the character's they want, with the strengths and weaknesses they want.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ender Sadie's feat is an outlier.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Then I guess all these guys aren't as fast as they really are just cause they look out of shape:

Dr. Eggma

Big Mom

Garfield

 

[Enderdragon1201]

I don't know enough about either Tyranids or Gems to have a major argument either way. I'm simply arguing based on what I've heard here. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the Tyranids could defend them better, I suppose I shall retract my vote for now.

Edit: @Weekly isn't that something any interstellar civilization could do? Or are you referring to how fast they made it to Earth, because as far as I can recall I don't remember getting a real time frame on when they were sent out.