Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

[YungManzi]

Do you think hyumans should get blessed and luck ? they're all blessed by the goddess with beauty and good health.

I don’t think so… maybe, are there statements on these? We would by default have to give the goddes supernatural luck manipulation as well.

also Makoto's blessing from tsukyomi give him good luck.
also the heroes are kind of lucky to survive certain situation like: Mio's attack, the war, demon's attack...
all because Makoto was there.

Not sure on this one either.

I will say also, I’m also reconsidering whether or not Hibiki’s concept stuff is type 3, I won’t actually present my argument for this until I see it some more though. Also, I have some stuff I think everyone has like absorption, resistance to soul manipulation, accelerated development, ect.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don’t think so… maybe, are there statements on these. We would by default have to give the goddes supernatural luck manipulation as well.

Not sure on this one either.

I will say also, I’m also reconsidering whether or not Hibiki’s concept stuff is type 3, I won’t actually present my argument for this until I see it some more though. Also, I have some stuff I think everyone has like absorption, resistance to soul manipulation, accelerated development, ect.

No, just hyumans and heroes are lucky

even their status plate shows luck, Makoto has bad while Haroka daughter had good luck, the reason she was lucky and met apple group and Makoto that ended up saving her.

limited absorption: the absorb some xp from monster they kill, I think that only apply to adventures and their skills, like unlocking new skills and jobs
or does it mean they absorb some mana from monster they kill, make sense didn't Tomoe lv increase a little after she went monster hunting.

for NPI and soul damage resistance: mana can be use to protect the soul from mana based soul attacks and can damage souls like Makoto did to Alte.

accelerated development: yes, maybe or depend ?
Tomoki lv increase faster and surpass Hibiki because he was using drugs.
here their lv is what increase not their stats, lv is the amount of mana, so their resistance to magic increase.

 

[YungManzi]

No, just hyumans and heroes are lucky

No, I'm saying if they get their luck via the goddess then the goddess has the power to manipulate luck.

even their status plate shows luck, Makoto has bad while Haroka daughter had good luck, the reason she was lucky and met apple group and Makoto that ended up saving her.

Where is this at!?

limited absorption: the absorb some xp from monster they kill, I think that only apply to adventures and their skills, like unlocking new skills and jobs
or does it mean they absorb some mana from monster they kill, make sense didn't Tomoe lv increase a little after she went monster hunting.

Yeah they absorb mana from others via the leveling system.

for NPI and soul damage resistance: mana can be use to protect the soul from mana based soul attacks and can damage souls like Makoto did to Alte.

But also I misspoke (Typed?) I meant a sort of unconventional resistance for one's magic power.

「In that case, you should do that several times over. And then let us work to somehow contain this power within that soul of yours.」(Daikokuten)

Magic power is contained within one's soul. So in order to directly affect one's magic power you'd need to affect their soul.

accelerated development: yes, maybe or depend ?
Tomoki lv increase faster and surpass Hibiki because he was using drugs.
here their lv is what increase not their stats, lv is the amount of mana, so their resistance to magic increase.

I believe it's stated they get stronger and faster with a level increase too. During the whole student training arc. I'll look for it.

“Well, I haven’t put maze exploration and field work in the lecture menu. And to obtain the experience points to increase their level they have to kill something. I see, because they were so desperate about my class, they got delayed in their level increase huh” (Makoto)

^You have to kill something to increase your level.

“That sensei’s class is a strange class where one gets strong even without increasing levels. No one has divulged it though.”

^Heavily suggesting that you get stronger when increasing your level.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Where is this at!?

Root said something about that Makoto is the only person with bad luck, but his title "friend with tsukyomi" counter it and Haroka's daughter had the best luck. don't remember the chapters though.

Yeah they absorb mana from others via the leveling system.
no, its passive the system just double the effect

But also I misspoke (Typed?) I meant a sort of unconventional resistance for one's magic power.

yes

Magic power is contained within one's soul. So in order to directly affect one's magic power you'd need to affect their soul.

not necessarily, except Sofia absorbing superior dragons resulting in absorbing their soul
also Makoto damage Alte's soul without attacking her weapon, it's weird
can this be used as a layer ? : effecting soul>mana

I believe it's stated they get stronger and faster with a level increase too. During the whole student training arc. I'll look for it.

^You have to kill something to increase your level.
^Heavily suggesting that you get stronger when increasing your level.

I think XP mean mana.

What he meant is that your LV(mana) increase if you kill monster, while if you want to get stronger and faster you should train, there is a lots that prove magic≠physical strenght or speed or durability.

we know Makoto has the highest amount of mana that even surpass the system limit that's why it show as 1, and he is still surpassed in physical strength, speed and durability by people lower LV than him.

I think the LV increase depend on the person, if the adventurer had a magician job or healer his mana will manifest as something related to magic or healing while an assassin job will give the person a speed increase or illusion like Toa, that's how they get new skill even a weapon specialized job will give the person a dimensional storage ability because it's related.
so even the stats increase is different : lv100 assassin≠ lv100 healer

not sure, there is no proof LV=physical stats

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

just remembered
if the system XP boost only apply after you become an adventure, doesn't that mean people all do it passively without a job.
so Lv is not the amount of XP it's the amount of mana

 

[YungManzi]

Root said something about that Makoto is the only person with bad luck, but his title "friend with tsukyomi" counter it and Haroka's daughter had the best luck. don't remember the chapters though.

Yeah they absorb mana from others via the leveling system.
no, its passive the system just double the effect

I'm pretty sure it was stated they didn't have that ability until the leveling system.

I think the LV increase depend on the person, if the adventurer had a magician job or healer his mana will manifest as something related to magic or healing while an assassin job will give the person a speed increase or illusion like Toa, that's how they get new skill even a weapon specialized job will give the person a dimensional storage ability because it's related.
so even the stats increase is different : lv100 assassin≠ lv100 healer

not sure, there is no proof LV=physical stats

I'm not saying level = strength directly. I'm saying level = strength relative to oneself.

Like my level 1 could be above your level 10, but you're still stronger at level 10 than you were at level 1.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I'm pretty sure it was stated they didn't have that ability until the leveling system.

me too, but how does a non-adventurer get stronger?

“If your level increases, you will get stronger. Of course, even without knowing that number, by defeating mamonos and doing war, you will not see the number, but it will certainly show the changes. But just by making it a simple to understand number, their enthusiasm increases. And so I, for the sake of speeding up that enthusiasm, intervened in this world’s system. Well, I only made it so that the power absorption they gain from others is increased though. In words that Makoto-kun would understand better, it is like increasing the experience gain” (Root)

Root compare power to XP

I'm not saying level = strength directly. I'm saying level = strength relative to oneself.

Like my level 1 could be above your level 10, but you're still stronger at level 10 than you were at level 1.

If you're saying it depend on the indivisual, I agree.

 

[YungManzi]

me too, but how does a non-adventurer get stronger?

Was iit stated you need to be an adventurer for the leveling system to apply to you? I don't think that's a thing. I think lvl is just something everyone has now.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Everyone have levels, even the mamono in the wasteland.

Also, leveling is already considered accelerated development in the wiki by default:

• Leveling: Usually used in RPG like settings. The character gains more exp than others for performing the same tasks and/or gains larger increases upon leveling up.

Goddess world map

Btw I found one statement on distance

The desert of Gritonia stretches for at least 70 km.

Wow, the map don't really help much, though is still can be used in some parts, the desert of Gritonia is not one of them because it don't appear there (Edit: Unless that is supposed to be the line between Ur and Luinas).

There wasn't a statement about the demon territory when Makoto visited the demons and the Root incident? I remeber something a statement about it and that would be quite helpful in this situation since the demon territory is one of the few things delimited.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Was iit stated you need to be an adventurer for the leveling system to apply to you? I don't think that's a thing. I think lvl is just something everyone has now.

Yes, when they apply and become an adventurer they become connected to the system.
even the heroes needed to visit the adventure guild to measure their lv, that's how Root keep a watch on everything and know both heroes even their pesonalities ( the reason he didn't choose Tomoki)

I think lvl is just something everyone has now.

then why is Sofia is the highest LV until Makoto party showed up. there is clearly people who should have higher Lv (Root, Apple's group,...)
because they didn't register or were removed.

Everyone have levels, even the mamono in the wasteland.

Also, leveling is already considered accelerated development in the wiki by default:

yes, the leveling system can be use on everyone, it's basically the measurement of mana.

I meant they don't have jobs and skills that come from the system until they register.

 

[YungManzi]

Yes, when they apply and become an adventurer they become connected to the system.
even the heroes needed to visit the adventure guild to measure their lv, that's how Root keep a watch on everything and know both heroes even their pesonalities ( the reason he didn't choose Tomoki)


then why is Sofia is the highest LV until Makoto party showed up. there is clearly people who should have higher Lv (Root, Apple's group,...)
because they didn't register or were removed.

Disagree
She's the highest level as far as the guild is concerned but she's not the highest level overall.

According the Root, him and the goddess changed the laws of the world to give everyone levels.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

If there is no statement of something that appear on the map then the thing I could think at most is try to use the mountain chain of Lorel using the average size of mountains and from that trying to scale the rest of the map, but that method is quite meh and would likely not give good results.

And another thing unreleated with the map

Do you think hyumans should get blessed and luck ? they're all blessed by the goddess with beauty and good health.

Hyumans are modified humans that the goddess created, they are genetically different (hence the reason of why they are called different species and possess certain traits that the other race don't possess), so there is no blessing and luck there for her part, though in time of war they indeed get blessed through the beauty ritual the armies do before the fight but that is something unreleated to our profiles that don't affect them.

then why is Sofia is the highest LV until Makoto party showed up. there is clearly people who should have higher Lv (Root, Apple's group,...)
because they didn't register or were removed.

No, don't be dumb, is said that she is the current hyuman alive with the highest level, which is true because the identity of Root and the existence of Apple group is unknow to everyone (like not even us readers got to know the existence of Apple until very far ahead), same logic with other "hyumans" stronger than Sofia.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

She's the highest level as far as the guild is concerned but she's not the highest level overall.

that's what I meant

According the Root, him and the goddess changed the laws of the world to give everyone levels.

No, just Root and apple group
He needed her help to sustain the system instead of Apple group.

 

[YungManzi]

You focus on the apple group statements way too much.

There are other statements concerning how the level system works, y'know?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You focus on the apple group statements way too much.

There are other statements concerning how the level system works, y'know?

yes there is others

I'm using apple group for talking about it's origin not how it work.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Good and bad news.

Good News: After more than a month I finally saw the second episode of the anime, did some calcs and got some upgrades for the characters.

Bad News: I will see the third episode after another more than a month stop so you all will not get any new calcs until then :V

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Also, apparently Makoto can use the lightning element, though his affinity for it is almost nonexistent so at practical effects is quite useless. And just in case, yes, it clearly say lightning in japanese so it isn't a bad translation or something like that.

 

[YungManzi]

Nice

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Also, apparently Makoto can use the lightning element, though his affinity for it is almost nonexistent so at practical effects is quite useless. And just in case, yes, it clearly say lightning in japanese so it isn't a bad translation or something like that.

already mentioned it #210

 

[YungManzi]

One thing I read recently and didn’t think about previously was that Asora peeps can take refuge away from powerful attacks by traveling to Asora then coming back after the attack was launched.

They talked about doing that with Root’s blaze.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

One thing I read recently and didn’t think about previously was that Asora peeps can take refuge away from powerful attacks by traveling to Asora then coming back after the attack was launched.

They talked about doing that with Root’s blaze.

I know, Makoto use it against Alte's lightning
it doesn't necessarily need to be Asura, as they can open a portal to somewhere they have visited before.
Makoto send lighting to the goddess's world sea instead of Asura, because it would be dangerous.

 

[YungManzi]

Makoto send lighting to the goddess's world sea instead of Asura, because it would be dangerous.

I thought he eventually did send it to Asora though, right? because of Alte's Homing which made it impossible to dodge from anywhere in the world so he sent it to Asora and that allowed him to get around it.

 

[YungManzi]

“I see, I didn’t tell you about the symptoms right? At the first symptoms I thought that it was just a fever. But…” (Rembrandt)

It seems like he noticed that their behavior was strange. Fearing both water and light, there were times when they lost their sanity and destroyed their room. It sounded like the case of a dog under rabies.

After that, their once beautiful hair began to fall down and their eyes began to be tinged in a fiery red light.

‘… Their appearance was no longer what they used to be’, is what he said.

‘What kind of devil would do that?’, is what I thought.

I felt like my anger was turning to blood thirst.

After they returned to sanity and saw the own scene of their disaster, the people themselves cried and despaired, and then turned to the man, father and husband, to apologize.

After that, they began fighting the disease, but their self was slowly wearing out. Lately, it seems that they have even been wishing for death.” -Chapter 40

“The door was destroyed in a second you see, and then my wife, my wife attacked my arm” (Rembrandt)

He tried his best to protect the hope that he had finally obtained.

But the wife that he was supposed to save, stole the medicine that was supposed to save her… and destroyed it.

The surroundings were enveloped by a sweet scent, and the maddened wife became even more ruthless and attacked.

The guards that were hired and the butler noticed the abnormality and were able to hold down the wife by a hair’s breadth. The woman that was screaming and showing her fangs, had stopped her fits and with no strength left, she fell asleep.

A body that shouldn’t be able to move, to have her body move against her will and force numerous adults to hold her down at the same time. It is obvious it will happen.

I don’t know how she was before, but her hair that was falling down, her cheeks that were hollow, the bloodshot deep crimson eyes, as well as the saliva that was oozing from her mouth, they were all strong images that made me think of her as a ghost. Even if she were in between a horde of zombies I wouldn’t see any difference. -Chapter 41

And I have a body that surpasses the norm after all. Just because she is ignoring her limits won’t pose problems for me.

But without fearing the teeth that had changed to fangs, the man drained the contents of the medicine in her mouth. From his face, I could feel a determination that told me he wouldn’t mind even if all of his fingers were bitten off.

What do you think Curse Disease counts as? I think it's Corruption (Type 2) and Madness Manipulation (Type 1 or 2)

This is especially interesting considering that Root's roar inflicts two different curse diseases.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I thought he eventually did send it to Asora though, right? because of Alte's Homing which made it impossible to dodge from anywhere in the world so he sent it to Asora and that allowed him to get around it.

just reread that.
some stuff doesn't make sense

Alte's lighting erased Tomoe's mist gate but didn't erased makoto
1)

“What-ja to?!” (Tomoe)

The woman chanted what sounded like the name of a spell for the first time.

An equinox flower.

While I was thinking that, all the mist had been dispersed.

It can even erase the gate.

Not only that, the red lightning is piercing everything resembling us regardless if it is an illusion or not one after the other.

This is bad!

As if spreading with her at the center, the red lightning equinox flower bloomed, and each time it did, the lightning was accurately piercing.

With one strike it dispersed the mist, with one strike it erased the illusions, and with one strike it pierced us as if there wasn’t a barrier at all. ch 362

2)Makoto could use it

I connected one mist gate to the sky, one to the depths of the sea, one far into the wasteland…and also connected one to Asora.

It was a decision in the moment.

But the result was quite interesting.

Lazers hit me from the top, bottom, and back.

I could tell from the locations I felt the pain.

No matter where I teleport them, I can’t escape from the lightning element.

Excluding Asora.

The lightning that was teleported to a different space was unable to trace me.

Should I see it as it being possible, or should I see it as being impossible to avoid unless I go that far? ch364

her lightning doesn't affect the mana inside the body, so it doesn't ignore resistance and only cause pain, maybe the reason why Ema didn't die or affected by the status effect.

“You can break through most magic, but you can’t ignore all the magic resistance from a person’s body, huh.” (Makoto)

I grab the left arm of Alte from the side.

It is hot and it hurts. ch363

the thing about Makoto's arrow
is it causality or teleportation ?
1)

I do the new step of concentration that I practiced before with Hibiki-senpai.

An archery stance that looks defenseless at a glance and is silent and long which feels completely out of place in the battlefield.

If I manage to secure a decent altitude in the sky where there’s no interruptions, I can reduce the demerits by quite a bit.

I slowly connect the space between the Apostle and I, and take in the surroundings.

Properly taking in the factors like the wind and its dryness, the trees standing together, the elements, and the Spirits…and then erase them.

The act of turning every factor into nothing aside from me and the target…the Apostle.

I closed my eyes and I couldn’t see anything with my eyes anymore.

This is a different technique from the one bound in the logic of archery.

It is like erasing everything else and making the result of hitting the target a certainty.

Like erasing the process of it.

“…Alright.” (Makoto)

I open my eyes.

My senses are telling me that it is done.

The movements of Ema are quite dull.

Tomoe is still more energetic than she looks.

With my concentration maintained, the moment the arrow left my hand, it disappeared.

Good. ch362

2)

You will be dying today.

I take stance with my bow.

Towards Alte who isn’t in an alternate space or parallel world, but in this world somewhere.

The figure of Alte shows up in my mind. ch 364

anyway he need time or concentration, right?
how did he use it against Athena?

 

[YungManzi]

her lightning doesn't affect the mana inside the body, so it doesn't ignore resistance and only cause pain, maybe the reason why Ema didn't die or affected by the status effect.

He resistance negation is with regards to her breaking Makoto's magic barriers that resist magic attacks and with specific status effects (Petrification), not all of her status effects kek. She didn't even have it until the last crt.

the thing about Makoto's arrow
is it causality or teleportation ?

Could be either honestly. But since he said it's "like" skipping the process and it's not him literally skipping the process teleportation is more safe as an assumption.

anyway he need time or concentration, right?
how did he use it against Athena?

He didn't use it against Athena? Not on-screen anyway.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What do you think Curse Disease counts as? I think it's Corruption (Type 2) and Madness Manipulation (Type 1 or 2)

This is especially interesting considering that Root's roar inflicts two different curse diseases.

It depend, how were they infected?
is it contagious ?

the scans or chapters for Root's roar.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

He resistance negation is with regards to her breaking Makoto's magic barriers that resist magic attacks and with specific status effects (Petrification), not all of her status effects kek. She didn't even have it until the last crt.

where was it mentioned his barrier resist magical attack?

 

[YungManzi]

It depend, how were they infected?
is it contagious ?

No it's cause via a sorcerer inflicting it

[Cursed disease?]

“Yeah, it refers to a disease that infects the person through a ceremony a sorcery specialist does. To cure the cursed infection, you’ll need to use a type of elixir, or have the sorcerer himself release it. There are types of cursed diseases that the sorcerer himself cannot cure even upon his death, and there are some that have no cure at all.” (Rembrandt)

What a troublesome thing they have.

I can somehow understand why elixirs are not cheap. The sorcerer must have to a number of things like materials and catalysts but, the one that suffers the brunt of it is no joke.

“Even in those curses, the one that the madam has been infected with is a level 8 cursed disease. We are suppressing the symptoms temporarily with high priced elixirs but, it is necessary to get the elixir Ambrosia no matter what”-Chapter 34

the scans or chapters for Root's roar.

Reading the chapter now but-

(Yeah, sorry for interrupting you in this busy time. Coercion, paralysis, petrification, panic, weakening lvl 5 curse disease, spiritual ailment lvl 6 curse disease, bodily function decrease, magic power effectiveness decay… there’s still more, but the ones this one has been able to identify are already crazy. What an unbelievable roar. There’s already casualties. Please be careful. Raidou-dono’s group, don’t push yourselves. This one doesn’t mind if you secure your own safety first. This one…wishes you good luck.) (Zef)

You really did quite the messed up attack.

To cast curse disease from a roar.

You probably don’t know how much I hate curse diseases, but right now, I am thinking of definitely crushing your attack.

^Makoto referencing how much he hates curse diseases, likely comparing it to the Yuno and Sif's curse diseases.

where was it mentioned his barrier resist magical attack?

somewhere lol idk.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

somewhere lol idk.

we know her lightning has anti-magic property

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

No it's cause via a sorcerer inflicting it

look like type 2

Reading the chapter now but-


^Makoto referencing how much he hates curse diseases, likely comparing it to the Yuno and Sif's curse diseases.

somewhere lol idk.

what about giving them unconventional resistance to every magical effect in the verse?

 

[YungManzi]

look like type 2

what about giving them unconventional resistance to every magical effect in the verse?

Giving who that?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Giving who that?

I meant there man pool protect them from magical effect of someone with less mana
everyone has this resistance, even object resist magical effect by applying mana on it
unless I'm wrong.

 

[YungManzi]

I meant there man pool protect them from magical effect of someone with less mana

I completely disagree with this,.

Everyone already has magic resistance tho.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I completely disagree with this,.

isn't that the reason nothing effect Makoto?
they even say it's like dropping a bucket into the ocean meaning no effect, the reason Makoto can fight gods and resist them is his large mana pool.

what make you disagree with this ?

 

[YungManzi]

isn't that the reason nothing effect Makoto?
they even say it's like dropping a bucket into the ocean meaning no effect, the reason Makoto can fight gods and resist them is his large mana pool.

what make you disagree with this ?

I agree with the resistance, but not your reasoning. We talked about this before.

In my perspective, having a large mana pool gives you some kind of resistance to most if not all magical effects, but it's not as simple as "Having higher mana = you resist the effects of someone with lower mana". Which is why people with infinitesimally small compared to Makoto's mana can use special magical abilities that can effect him.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I agree with the resistance, but not your reasoning. We talked about this before.

In my perspective, having a large mana pool gives you some kind of resistance to most if not all magical effects, but it's not as simple as "Having higher mana = you resist the effects of someone with lower mana". Which is why people with infinitesimally small compared to Makoto's mana can use special magical abilities that can effect him.

sometimes you misunderstood what I mean.

yes, that's what I was trying to say, because the things that bypass this resistance are not actually magical spells, right?

1)Alte's lighting is something like anti-magic and not a normal lightning.
2)the charm is a blessing, it take time but it could effect someone with more mana, also the nuke's radiation, it even bypass their resistance and consume the lifespan.
3)Tomoe's memory manipulation is not a normal power, like the power Futsu gave her, the memory manipulation belong to Root, I don't think it's a normal ability.
4)Remember the apple group, wasn't some of the priestess ability effective on Makoto, and some Assassin skills were effective on Mio even with her magic absorption, probably the reason why Haroka who is a descendent and inherited some abilities was effective on Makoto, or Sofia's inherited absorption.
(I don't remember the fights exactly)
5)Mio's magic absorption : we know she is the darkness spirit, so her absorption is different than the others.
some of those stuff a probably wrong.

unrelated, what do you think happened to Tsukuyomi when he blessed Makoto?

 

[YungManzi]

@Expectro2000xxx

What do you think about type 2 corruption for curse disease?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

@Expectro2000xxx

What do you think about type 2 corruption for curse disease?

Eh, I guess maybe is fine? I would prefer just disease manip since personally speaking I'm not really a fan of corruption (as a concept I can understand it but as a page I don't really see its points much), though is true that they end acting like sort of ghouls so I can accept if is also labeled as corruption.

 

[YungManzi]

One thing to think about, with regards to how big the world is, is that apparently the map of the world is a human map which doesn’t accurately depict how big the demon territory and wasteland is.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

One thing to think about, with regards to how big the world is, is that apparently the map of the world is a human map which doesn’t accurately depict how big the demon territory and wasteland is.

You sure about that? Because in light novels when a map of the world is given normally is an accurate despiction (as wasting a precious illustration in something incorrect/wrong is something the authors, editors, etc. normally don't desire to do).

It can still help as a lowball at least so is still useful if used right.