Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

[Expectro2000xxx]

After talking we decided to turn the Tsukimichi Gang into a proper discussion thread so more people can participate in the discussions involving Tsuki Ga, so welcome to everyone.

 

[YungManzi]

So, back to what I said before...

Io > Hibiki and co. (Chapter 100) > Mio (Black Spider)

And BOS Makoto is somewhere in-between, while Shen Tomoe gets stomped physically by all of them. Tomoki's magic scales to Io too, but he doesn't scale physically.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So, back to what I said before...

Io > Hibiki and co. (Chapter 100) > Mio (Black Spider)

And BOS Makoto is somewhere in-between, while Shen Tomoe gets stomped physically by all of them. Tomoki's magic scales to Io too, but he doesn't scale physically.

Sofia > Io (She is probably the strongest person physically at the BOS)

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You should make a different tier to character (physical/with magic) like Aiko (Arifureta)

Also Tomoki can use the nuke thing one time after that he will be unconscious and no radiation just a curse or weakening status effect (even at night and it decrease his lifespan or soul, so it's like a last trump card)

Hibiki power is just empowerment and not CM3

some characters should have dimensional storage instead of pocket reality manipulation only Makoto and Tomoe have it probably the other gods because they were able to change Makoto's Asura (sea, temples, forest)

limited Energy absorption for Mio (She can absorb magical energy that come in contact with her but not 100% of the energy)

Tomoe's limited memory manipulation : she need time, she can't read the memory of a dream and her ability wasn't effective on Apple group and the arrow attack was summoned from her memory not the opponent, She can't read the memory if the person forgot about it like Mio's memory when she was a spider or Shiki when he was a hyuman.

Does Root and Futsu power come from some kind of limited Authority? that could upgrade Tomoe (because she was given both powers)

 

[YungManzi]

You should make a different tier to character (physical/with magic) like Aiko (Arifureta)

That’s the plan with Tomoki.

Also Tomoki can use the nuke thing one time after that he will be unconscious and no radiation just a curse or weakening status effect (even at night and it decrease his lifespan or soul, so it's like a last trump card)

Arguably the “curse” just refers to the radiations effects, and Sofia/Lancer just don’t know what it is so they called it a curse.

I don’t remember those weaknesses but they’re probably valid.

Hibiki power is just empowerment and not CM3

Yes, I agree, it’ll be removed with the new revisions I’m planning. Conceptual manipulation used to include ideas and thoughts when her profile was made, but they got rid of that, and now all concept stuff is pure abstraction so no conceptual empowerment for her.

some characters should have dimensional storage instead of pocket reality manipulation only Makoto and Tomoe have it probably the other gods because they were able to change Makoto's Asura (sea, temples, forest)

scans for this?

limited Energy absorption for Mio (She can absorb magical energy that come in contact with her but not 100% of the energy)

This is true but I don’t think she should get a power for this, technically every physical object absorbs energy from things that crash into it. Her absorption is purely magical in my eyes.

Tomoe's limited memory manipulation : she need time, she can't read the memory of a dream and her ability wasn't effective on Apple group and the arrow attack was summoned from her memory not the opponent, She can't read the memory if the person forgot about it like Mio's memory when she was a spider or Shiki when he was a hyuman.

Using Mio and Shiki as examples of what she can’t read is a false equivalency, as she arguably just isn’t allowed to do that. I don’t think she’s ever stated “I can’t do that.” With regards to reading memories. And she’s actively used memory reading to view someone’s entire life by just looking at people (Albeit she did it to fodder, so it’s arguable if it’d work on others because of magic resistance)

also completely disagree with your arrow attack interpretation. If you take her saying “I’ve seen it many times” as her seeing it before and not a reference to her view that girl’s memories we can argue this.

Does Root and Futsu power come from some kind of limited Authority? that could upgrade Tomoe (because she was given both powers)

What do you mean by Authority? This isn’t Nasuverse lol.

I will say that Root and the Goddess has Law Manipulation via creating the leveling system by “interfering with the world’s system” to allow everyone to grow stronger by killing things and assigning a number to it.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Yeah, the curse thing about the nuke is literally just radiation, Sofia described it the best way she could with her lack of scientific knowledge.

And yes, they should have law manip for the system since that is an actual set of laws that previously didn't existed and that they created.

Side note but I'm downloading the anime to this time watch it completely and try to make calcs.

 

[YungManzi]

“Skill copy?! What a copycat!” (Haku)

“A high-power skill that destroys seven magic pressure points of the target. Even if if doesn’t manage to defeat the opponent with all attacks hitting, it would still seal their magic. It is incredibly handy-ja na. I can understand why you rely on it.” (Tomoe)

“…I see, memories. So that’s how it is huh. We have an unbelievable opponent.” (Haku)

You think the reference to memories here is being used to refer to Tomoe looking through her own memories?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

You think the reference to memories here is being used to refer to Tomoe looking through her own memories?

I believe she readed Haku mind and that way discovered what the attack do.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

scans for this?

It happend after he was visited by the gods (Susano, Athena and "Shiva" riding a three legged crow) probably the travel ability come from the crow, they gave him "gift" like the dream thing.
when he woke up he discovered that an oceon was added to Asura with a couple of temples (shinto, buddist, greek)

‘You have really increased your magic power, Makoto. This is a gift from me. I had my brother help a bit, but it is frankly, the sea! By the way, this is a relay gift, and the gift from Daikoku-jisan<oldman> will be coming a bit later. Do your best from now on as well. Also, after you finish reading this sign, it will become fireworks. There’s no reason for it.

-By Susanoo.”

And so, that’s what was written.

And here I was wondering what was going on.

Now that he mentions it, when those Gods came, they did say something about gifts.

…It seems that because of Daikokuten-sama’s gift, I ended up seeing those weird dreams, so at this rate, I feel like I will be played around for 1 more round. ch 193

Sofia was only able to survive the Nuke because she used multiple barrier so she is Tier 7 with magic, she was also able to remove the effect

This is true but I don’t think she should get a power for this, technically every physical object absorbs energy from things that crash into it. Her absorption is purely magical in my eyes.

No, I meant she can't fully absorb the magic in a magical attack that's why Makoto attcks were effective on her as a spider also when she the person who use reflection she took damage from her magical attack.

You think the reference to memories here is being used to refer to Tomoe looking through her own memories?

yes, her power isn't absolute

…By the way, it wasn’t good to begin with.
“I am sorry, Waka. Just like before, I couldn’t read his memories.” (Tomoe)
Tomoe reports to me mortified.
It seems like it somewhat succeeded with Tomoki, but as I thought, it doesn’t work on everyone.
There’s people with high resistance towards it, and there’s a variety of spells that serve as countermeasure against this.
Senpai and Tomoki should be getting stronger by the day.
In that case, in the future, the memory vaccuum probably won’t work that much on the Japanese people.
In a sense, the only way for her to get information of Japan will be from my memories, and that will most likely depress her. ch 265

That was one of apple group (the first humans) the skill and job system originate from them (their blessings)

“Us six came here at the same time, and noticed that we had acquired an ability. And the one who was able to exercise that ability was master. That’s why…yeah, link would be the correct understanding of it.” (Rokuya)

“Link ability.” (Makoto)

Six.

If that’s the case, at least they wouldn’t be lonely. Even if they had come to a terrible world.

But this link ability, I don’t really understand it well.

“Ah, that’s the ‘Blood Pledge, Guild Verse’. Don’t know what sort of fate this is, but we were companions in an MMO -or so to speak, an online game- we played in those days. And our abilities were connected with it. What a joke.” (Rokuya)

“…Ah, a net game.” (Makoto)

So that’s what it is.

Rokuya-san and his companions, and then there’s the master <Guild Master>.

Guild comrades in an online game.

I see.

“The details of it are…to put it in an easy to understand way for you, it would be the reproduction of the online game system. Well, strictly speaking, it is different though. In other words, from a novice, I can hunt mamonos and change my job to thief, and after that, assassin, and further after, I can decide on a specialized job…it is that kind of setup. There’s also a shared warehouse that other people can’t see, side quests, and other fine details in the ability.” (Rokuya)

It is truly a guild.

And this entered the ears of Root, and that’s how the current guild was established. ch 264

if something happened to them the system will disappear

Rokuya-san slightly narrows his eyes.

“Root has already diverged from the Guild Verse system, and she is trying to make it a permanent existence in this world.” (Rokuya)

“In other words, it means that Root is trying to make it possible for the Adventurer Guild to have your ability as well?” (Makoto)

“Yeah. But for the sake of that, he needs the cooperation of the Goddess, and more than that, there’s the need for our cooperation as well.” (Rokuya)

“Right. Leaving aside the Goddess, the cooperation of you guys would definitely be a necessary.” (Makoto)

“However, the price that was asked for was way too big. You probably already have an idea but…for the sake of that, all the people related to the Guild Verse ability are required to live forever. If the Wise die, the ability goes with them after all.” (Rokuya)

“?!”

“That’s why, a lot happened, Raidou-kun. By the Goddess, Guild Verse became the core of the Adventurer Guild, and we became immortal. But you see, a problem was born in this.” (Rokuya) ch 264

Root erase memories

“More accurately speaking, that girl is a Sand Dragon. Can’t be helped, we are talking about Root here. She probably persistently chipped off the memories of Futsu from the other Superior Dragons every time they were dormant or were reincarnating. It was probably easier than erasing the Adventurers of Origin from the history of people.” (Rokuya)

“That damn Root…” (Tomoe) ch 264

 

[YungManzi]

Sofia was only able to survive the Nuke because she used multiple barrier so she is Tier 7 with magic, she was also able to remove the effect

I think she still scales to Lancer who didn’t use barriers? Not sure though, I’d have to re-read the fight.

No, I meant she can't fully absorb the magic in a magical attack that's why Makoto attcks were effective on her as a spider also when she the person who use reflection she took damage from her magical attack.

That’s not what’s mentioned. The statement is that she absorbs the magic but doesn’t absorb the energy from the attack itself (Kinetic energy) which is why she takes damage from attacks while absorbing the magic. Unless you want to say characters like Tomoki and Shiki have better absorption than Mio, who specializes in Absorption and nullification, just because they don’t take damage from the magic attacks they absorb.

yes, her power isn't absolute

The claim is that she reads memories not that her power is absolute. Even Expecs interpretation of mind reading makes more sense than Hali being impressed by Tomoe reading her own memories.

That was one of apple group (the first humans) the skill and job system originate from them (their blessings)

if something happened to them the system will disappear

Is this from a side story or something? Or from that Wise arc that I mostly skipped over the first time I read? Lol

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is this from a side story or something? Or from that Wise arc that I mostly skipped over the first time I read? Lol

chapter 264, just forgot

 

[YungManzi]

chapter 264, just forgot

Wise Arc. I thought so.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The claim is that she reads memories not that her power is absolute. Even Expecs interpretation of mind reading makes more sense than Hali being impressed by Tomoe reading her own memories.

Also I remember her having a problem reading Hibiki to learn swordsmanship so she ask her to teach her (don't remember the chapter, maybe I'm wrong)

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Wise Arc. I thought so.

so the sysytem originate from the apple party blessings and still depend on them

 

[YungManzi]

chapter 264, just forgot

So.. I read up on this, and they're talking about the guild verse ability (Which hasn't been implemented across the world and is just limited to their group), not the leveling system.

Tomoe's memory reading didn't work on some Japanese people, yes, but that was also base tomoe as opposed to her silver haired form she used against Haku.

Makoto's monologue is also further evidence that Tomoki and Hibiki likely scale to 6-B as tp tiers of the verse far above even most mamanos from Asora, currently.

Also, every Asora resident/native should be far stronger than before they moved, because the fruits and vegetables naturally make people far stronger than they would be otherwise, and their implementation is part of the reason why Makoto's students got to be as strong as they are.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

not the leveling system.

yes the leveling system was also because of them, when they were summoned one of them brought his gaming computer with him/her and the reason Makoto level show as 1 is because it's a 16-bit computer and it's limit is 65536, that why it can't count Makoto lv (is above 65536) and show it as one,
so is not Law Manipulation (the paper they use to count someone lv is magically connected to the computer), and someone lv is just how much magic they have (dbz power level), sorry I don't remember the chapters.

Tomoe's memory reading didn't work on some Japanese people, yes, but that was also base tomoe as opposed to her silver haired form she used against Haku.

yeah, because humans>hyumans, doesn't their power come from being in the goddess world (magical environment)? it was how Tsukyomi got weak because he spend time on earth.

Also, every Asora resident/native should be far stronger than before they moved, because the fruits and vegetables naturally make people far stronger than they would be otherwise, and their implementation is part of the reason why Makoto's students got to be as strong as they are.

It's true, but you shouldn't give people tier based on statement because everyone on the verse exaggerate a lots.

 

[YungManzi]

yes the leveling system was also because of them, when they were summoned one of them brought his gaming computer with him/her and the reason Makoto level show as 1 is because it's a 16-bit computer and it's limit is 65536, that why it can't count Makoto lv (is above 65536) and show it as one,
so is not Law Manipulation (the paper they use to count someone lv is magically connected to the computer), and someone lv is just how much magic they have (dbz power level), sorry I don't remember the chapters.

According to Root the leveling System gave people the ability to absorb the "power" (Between magic and physical power, I'm not sure which) of those they defeat, in which case most people didn't have that ability prior to it. The system even being something that applied to calamities like Mio and superior dragons.

yeah, because humans>hyumans, doesn't their power come from being in the goddess world (magical environment)? it was how Tsukyomi got weak because he spend time on earth.

Yep.

It's true, but you shouldn't give people tier based on statement because everyone on the verse exaggerate a lots.

I'm not saying they should get tiers solely based on that, I just think it's important to remember when talking about scaling, and why it makes sense that high tiers in Asora are essentially top tiers in the verse.

I was debating Expec before about basically a lot of Asora characters and people relevant to them scaling above essentially all superior dragons into 6-B.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

According to Root the leveling System gave people the ability to absorb the "power" (Between magic and physical power, I'm not sure which) of those they defeat, in which case most people didn't have that ability prior to it. The system even being something that applied to calamities like Mio and superior dragons.

Can you give the scans or chapters

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Can you give the scans or chapters

When it was show their status and levels, like Tomoe even trained to reach the same level that Mio for sheer competitiveness.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

When it was show their status and levels, like Tomoe even trained to reach the same level that Mio for sheer competitiveness.

you mean their level, I know that

I was mentioning how the lv system is not created by Root, he/she just used the apple group blessing ( The first human group asked for their blessing to be like their abilities and class in the game they used to play from some god who was never mention (probably the same on that gave Tomoki and Hibiki their 2nd power ). if apple group die or the computer was destroyed the system die with it.

One of them has a linking ability, they use it to link everyone to the system (they brought with them a computer and use it to count their level based on magic power) and give them the appropriate class (from the game), the computer is in their base protected by a Dragon (Duma?)

EX: how much magic Makoto has ? (more than 65536)
the system: yes (1)

the reason Alte hate adventure's skills is because they are not didn't originate from the Goddess (in her fight with Toa's party)

I'm just trying to make the characters more usable in a match

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

if you want law manipulation (non usable in a fight) you can use the contract because once established it punish them if they try to hurt Makoto, but this is not exclusive to him and can be used by anyone and increase the level of both sides, the reason Mio got higher lv is because she was the second pact so her magic power boost is more than Tomoe (don't why no one use it)
there was an assassin in apple group that has the ability to cut the pact of someone, the reason Mio didn't move from her place.

 

[YungManzi]

you mean their level, I know that

I was mentioning how the lv system is not created by Root, he/she just used the apple group blessing ( The first human group asked for their blessing to be like their abilities and class in the game they used to play from some god who was never mention (probably the same on that gave Tomoki and Hibiki their 2nd power ). if apple group die or the computer was destroyed the system die with it.

I’ll show you the statement when I get home. Give me like 3-4 hours.

Also, I’m not sure about the computer thing, but the guild verse is literally an entirely different thing that the leveling system just happens to be based on. Root originally wanted to make the leveling system the guild verse, and for that she’d need the apple group.

One of them has a linking ability, they use it to link everyone to the system (they brought with them a computer and use it to count their level based on magic power) and give them the appropriate class (from the game), the computer is in their base protected by a Dragon (Duma?)

EX: how much magic Makoto has ? (more than 65536)
the system: yes (1)

the reason Alte hate adventure's skills is because they are not didn't originate from the Goddess (in her fight with Toa's party

 

[YungManzi]

Also the purification on the profiles should be type 3, I just forgot it had types lol.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I’ll show you the statement when I get home. Give me like 3-4 hours.

Also, I’m not sure about the computer thing, but the guild verse is literally an entirely different thing that the leveling system just happens to be based on. Root originally wanted to make the leveling system the guild verse, and for that she’d need the apple group.

Trust me it was explained like that, I just forgot the chapters

there is no leveling system, when they touch the lv paper it's magically connected to the computer that count how much magic someone has, that computer was something they brought with them. It's hidden in there base and monitored by someone.
Root still need the Apple group (they are immortal thanks to golden apple) or the class and skill system will disappear, but the lv will remain because it just counting how much energy someone has and giving a number (limit is 65536).

Magic ≠ physical

 

[YungManzi]

Trust it was explained like that, I juts forgot the chapters

It was also explained Root and the Goddess created it by change the system of the world. It’s entirely possible the author just forgot about that statement and later retconned it.

like the statement about tree punishment being far and away a more power status effect than gorgon petrification.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It was also explained Root and the Goddess created it by change the system of the world. It’s entirely possible the author just forgot about that statement and later retconned it.

Yeah sometimes you gonna find some inconsistency, like Tomoe saying that magic power is set since birth and suddenly everyone keep increasing it
or how could the kingdom princess create an antidote for Tomoki's charm in a few days while the demons who are more advanced couldn't do it
the verse got a lots of Hocus Pocus ( they literally got a power up by touching a normal rock)

like the statement about tree punishment being far and away a more power status effect than gorgon petrification.

If it was stated, I agree

 

[YungManzi]

Yeah sometimes you gonna find some inconsistency, like Tomoe saying that magic power is set since birth

To be fair, the last time Tomoe was up and about the leveling system wasn’t a thing. So it’s likely she just didn’t know that such an innovation (Which allows you to become stronger by absorbing the power from others you defeat) had come about.

If it was stated, I agree

You agree with tree punishment being better? Well, the context behind the statement is that Makoto and co can reverse the effects of petrification because they spent time researching how to reverse tree punishment, which is a far and away better status effect.

However, later on Makoto says a full-power petrification from Hatsuharu is completely irreversible if you can’t just straight up resist it. So either it’s just Hatsuharu who has petrification that potent or it’s a retcon for FP gorgon petrification.

 

[YungManzi]

Quotes are from chapter 105;

“I was taught the concept by an otherworldler just like Makoto-kun you see. Well, I had some plans of my own in it too, but I proposed the idea to the Goddess and became the one in charge. She thought of the guild as a system that would make hyumans stronger, a really simple way of thinking. She didn’t reject the idea” (Root)

“If your level increases, you will get stronger. Of course, even without knowing that number, by defeating mamonos and doing war, you will not see the number, but it will certainly show the changes. But just by making it a simple to understand number, their enthusiasm increases. And so I, for the sake of speeding up that enthusiasm, intervened in this world’s system. Well, I only made it so that the power absorption they gain from others is increased though. In words that Makoto-kun would understand better, it is like increasing the experience gain” (Root)

“The otherworldler who became my husband, in those days was a swordsman that was sung as a hero in Elysion. And I was his wife and companion. I was also able to get the Goddess’ cooperation, so after creating the system, it permeated in the hyuman society incredibly fast. After that, by changing my appearance, I was able to become the Guild Master successively for several generations” (Root)

“… I see. Interfering with the system of the world. Using the increase of adventurers as a whole to make a simple and irregular pact with the world huh. In short, the increase of growth begins to work after a while of becoming an adventurer” (Tomoe)

“Well, that’s how it is. It varies depending on the race as well, so it doesn’t mean you can’t beat them. It is only like a reward for the strong ones by the world after all. No matter if you are a saint or a villain, as long you are able to kill someone of your same capacity, you will be able to obtain strength equal to that. It is like the complete opposite of the Goddess’ blessing, so it is better to not believe in it blindly."

Here's the stuff, Root saying they created the system, and stating that people gain the "power" of people they kill.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yes, but the only thing he did is increase the absorption effect of adventure
the system still depend on apple group, that's why Root wanted goddess help to make it independent

Rokuya-san slightly narrows his eyes.

“Root has already diverged from the Guild Verse system, and she is trying to make it a permanent existence in this world.” (Rokuya)

“In other words, it means that Root is trying to make it possible for the Adventurer Guild to have your ability as well?” (Makoto)

“Yeah. But for the sake of that, he needs the cooperation of the Goddess, and more than that, there’s the need for our cooperation as well.” (Rokuya)

“Right. Leaving aside the Goddess, the cooperation of you guys would definitely be a necessary.” (Makoto)

“However, the price that was asked for was way too big. You probably already have an idea but…for the sake of that, all the people related to the Guild Verse ability are required to live forever. If the Wise die, the ability goes with them after all.” (Rokuya) ch 264

Sorry but to be true idk, there is so much plot holes and inconsistency, I don't think the author know what his doing at this point.
If everyone agree, me too

 

[YungManzi]

What do you think? @Expectro2000xxx ?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

What do you think? @Expectro2000xxx ?

Didn't payed too much attention to the discussion (since I don't see the point of it) but still looked at things in general, my thoughts are that while is true that the adventure system is based on Apple abilities, Root still affected the entire world to change the rules and add said system as part of the laws of the world, so he should regardless get listed law manipulation, one that isn't really useful or practical but still.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Didn't payed too much attention to the discussion (since I don't see the point of it) but still looked at things in general, my thoughts are that while is true that the adventure system is based on Apple abilities, Root still affected the entire world to change the rules and add said system as part of the laws of the world, so he should regardless get listed law manipulation, one that isn't really useful or practical but still.

Agree, maybe limited law manipulation

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Is there any proof that the Spider durability scale to her AP? Because based on the fact that her main gimmick is survive anything thanks to her regen and absorption then I'm not so sure if her durability really to her offensive capability. If that's the case that could also explain why she is apparently supposed to be less durable than Io despite the immense difference in levels and power (at the very least narratively speaking).

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is there any proof that the Spider durability scale to her AP? Because based on the fact that her main gimmick is survive anything thanks to her regen and absorption then I'm not so sure if her durability really to her offensive capability. If that's the case that could also explain why she is apparently supposed to be less durable than Io despite the immense difference in levels and power (at the very least narratively speaking).

No, she is weak to physical attack the only reason she is dangerous is her regeneration and magic absorption.
To be true no character AP scale to their Durability especially Makoto (even Tomoki got knocked out after using the nuke at night)

 

[YungManzi]

Is there any proof that the Spider durability scale to her AP? Because based on the fact that her main gimmick is survive anything thanks to her regen and absorption then I'm not so sure if her durability really to her offensive capability. If that's the case that could also explain why she is apparently supposed to be less durable than Io despite the immense difference in levels and power (at the very least narratively speaking).

She scales via physically harming Makoto

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

She scales via physically harming Makoto

That don't explain nothing, there are characters in the wiki with physical AP that don't scale to their durability there is also how the Spider have sharp damage so her ability to injure is higher but well.

 

[YungManzi]

Thinking about it a little more critically, a lot of the scaling makes no sense.

Like Hibiki and her party. Why the heck were they struggling with a praying mantis monster, WHEN THEY FOUGHT SPIDER MIO, ALL SURVIVED, AND CUT OFF SOME OF HER LEGS!? Also this version of them is supposed to be stronger but they were losing to a monster lich Shiki created!?

I honestly think the author just wanted Mio and Shiki to look cool and forgot how strong Hibiki and her party are supposed to be because of that.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Thinking about it a little more critically, a lot of the scaling makes no sense.

Like Hibiki and her party. Why the heck were they struggling with a praying mantis monster, WHEN THEY FOUGHT SPIDER MIO, ALL SURVIVED, AND CUT OFF SOME OF HER LEGS!? Also this version of them is supposed to be stronger but they were losing to a monster lich Shiki created!?

I honestly think the author just wanted Mio and Shiki to look cool and forgot how strong Hibiki and her party are supposed to be because of that.

(sorry)
Could readjust their tiering, it's messed up

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Again the lv is the measure of someone magic power and not Physic, dura, speed...

 

[YungManzi]

Makoto is the weakest physically but strongest in magic
could readjust their tiering, it's messed up

This is a crazy take if you’re talking about the Humans who were summoned.

I think it’s funny that all of us, having read the novel, feel completely differently about the scaling.
Like I think Shen Tomoe is actually a pretty weak superior dragon physically.