Tsuki Ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu General Discussion Thread

[YungManzi]

Funny things I was talking about Tsuki.

Well in that case literally the whole verse is outdated, Powers, resistance, tiers, everything. No use talking about battles lol.
We talked about this a while ago, but I still think 6-B and 5-B are valid tiers for high tiers and top tiers respectfully, and don't see the rating as outdated at all.


The pages for the verse is based on the web novel as primary canon with manga and anime as supporting canon (Really, we should use the LN, but there's no official or unofficial english translation for it). The primary canon being the WN, statements from it take precedence over even the feats in the Anime and Manga.

So, while the Sofia and Io scaling may be questionable because of their credibility and additional context; all other statements related to it are what take precedence.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Well in that case literally the whole verse is outdated, Powers, resistance, tiers, everything. No use talking about battles lol.
We talked about this a while ago, but I still think 6-B and 5-B are valid tiers for high tiers and top tiers respectfully, and don't see the rating as outdated at all.


The pages for the verse is based on the web novel as primary canon with manga and anime as supporting canon (Really, we should use the LN, but there's no official or unofficial english translation for it). The primary canon being the WN, statements from it take precedence over even the feats in the Anime and Manga.

So, while the Sofia and Io scaling may be questionable because of their credibility and additional context; all other statements related to it are what take pecedence.

Agree with this but please tell me where you get tier 6-B or 5-B from.
the biggest Ap feats are : Makoto creating the lake (crater feat), Tomoki's Nuke, Root's elemental buckshot. according to Expectro calculation is 7-C https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Expectro2000xxx/Tsuki_Ga_Episode_2_Feats

Makato has been tame since his feat of creating a Lake and he needed the rings to make the explosion so it is not even his base AP, Tomoki won't use the Nuke unless the moon is out and it consume his lifespan, Root attack need time to charge (maybe country lv ?).

although I agree if you give Makoto 6-A for creating Asura.

 

[YungManzi]

Agree with this but please tell me where you get tier 6-B or 5-B from.
the biggest Ap feats are : Makoto creating the lake (crater feat), Tomoki's Nuke, Root's elemental buckshot. according to Expectro calculation is 7-C https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Expectro2000xxx/Tsuki_Ga_Episode_2_Feats

Makato has been tame since his feat of creating a Lake and he needed the rings to make the explosion so it is not even his base AP, Tomoki won't use the Nuke unless the moon is out and it consume his lifespan, Root attack need time to charge (maybe country lv ?).

although I agree if you give Makoto 6-A for creating Asura.

5-B = Possibly based on a statement from Waterfall which falls under option 2 in statements. It's not 100% concrete, but narratively it makes sense and isn't contradicted. Which is why we have Possibly

High 6-B = Same justification it has right now.

6-B+ = Backscaling from Mio manipulating and affecting the whole of Root's Blaze. Root himself doesn't even scale to his blaze as you said, because he needs to charge it and it leaves him drained afterwards. People who scale to it are long haired Mio and people who are comparable.

6-B* = May or may not be a thing anymore because of Expect's very good argument against it. With destroying a country likely meaning that that they could fight off armies and such. In which case, we could give the statement the benefit of the doubt and say they can destroy armies in one shot and try to do a calc for how powerful an attack like that would be. May give a decent result.
-Also, I'm gonna present an additional argument for backscaling which puts current base Mio and Tomoe at 6-B+, along with the people who scale to and above them.

6-C = Sofia and people who scale to her durability (Including most of the current 6-B's), as she survived Tomoki's nuke without barriers and suggested it was more powerful than lake feat (Which she literally got hit by). Expect would argue that Tomoki's nuke isn't that powerful, but I think context clues suggest otherwise. Including:
-Text saying that the "scar" left was a lot worse than the lake, after calling it a giant crater.

The lower tiers I would have to think about some more tbh.
There are also possibly higher ends that can be used for gods and such like the goddess and Makoto

And there's stuff we don't have calcs for like Waterfall freezing over the surface of her lake, and the underwater volcano stuff.

 

[YungManzi]

I think the argument against 5-B would be the flat world stuff and saying it isn't as large as IRL Earth. In which case we can say Limia is as big as japan and just based on what Makoto has said about population sizes, basing it on how much land there is. Multiply it by the number of countries and our accepted Japan calc. Which is like 600 Teratons and just say they're at the very least that; because the map of the world we have isn't a full map given that both the demon territory and the wasteland are said to be bigger than human maps suggest.

We can stretch the demon territory way beyond even the human maps given that Root's country sized crater would only cover the outskirts and half of the demon's capital city; and it takes several days to get to the capital from Kaleon, which isn't even on the maps.

So, maybe 6-A that way lol. I'm ok with assuming earth's size given how little we know about stuff outside of the human realm, but yeah.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

5-B = Possibly based on a statement from Waterfall which falls under option 2 in statements. It's not 100% concrete, but narratively it makes sense and isn't contradicted. Which is why we have Possibly

a statement made by nobrain character who just met Makoto for the first time and know nothing about him. Waterfall is so stupid he didn't expect Makoto the most naive guy who trust stranger to let his servants check his memory, and let's check his power scaling reliability when he was suprise that he is stronger than Tomoe and got stomp with no dif. So no it's just a hyperbole with no proof (statment).

High 6-B = Same justification it has right now.

the same problem.

6-B+ = Backscaling from Mio manipulating and affecting the whole of Root's Blaze. Root himself doesn't even scale to his blaze as you said, because he needs to charge it and it leaves him drained afterwards. People who scale to it are long haired Mio and people who are comparable.

I could probably agree with this (need more proof) except with don't see any Tier 6-B+ destruction, and even if it was it's just Mio absorbing some of the buckshots that can make a crater and not the whole attack . So not really

6-B* = May or may not be a thing anymore because of Expect's very good argument against it. With destroying a country likely meaning that that they could fight off armies and such. In which case, we could give the statement the benefit of the doubt and say they can destroy armies in one shot and try to do a calc for how powerful an attack like that would be. May give a decent result.
-Also, I'm gonna present an additional argument for backscaling which puts current base Mio and Tomoe at 6-B+, along with the people who scale to and above them.

Not just the benefit of doubt but absolute unreliability for not having any feat and being just a statement, sine when defeating an army count as Tier 6?

6-C = Sofia and people who scale to her durability (Including most of the current 6-B's), as she survived Tomoki's nuke without barriers and suggested it was more powerful than lake feat (Which she literally got hit by). Expect would argue that Tomoki's nuke isn't that powerful, but I think context clues suggest otherwise. Including:
-Text saying that the "scar" left was a lot worse than the lake, after calling it a giant crater.

No, She survived a Nuke without giving any crater size, so just a Nuke+, but I could agree with giving Tomoki's Nuke not him Tier 6-C, She covered herself in a barrier and tanked the attack at least give her barrier Tier 6-C.

The lower tiers I would have to think about some more tbh.
There are also possibly higher ends that can be used for gods and such like the goddess and Makoto

Like what ?

And there's stuff we don't have calcs for like Waterfall freezing over the surface of her lake, and the underwater volcano stuff.

the problem is there isn't much info about them.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I think the argument against 5-B would be the flat world stuff and saying it isn't as large as IRL Earth. In which case we can say Limia is as big as japan and just based on what Makoto has said about population sizes, basing it on how much land there is. Multiply it by the number of countries and our accepted Japan calc. Which is like 600 Teratons and just say they're at the very least that; because the map of the world we have isn't a full map given that both the demon territory and the wasteland are said to be bigger than human maps suggest.

No, destroying that is not something that can be done physically by any character for now, and that statment by Waterfall could be refering to eligion or just straight up lying .
That's not how it work , unlike Japan Limia's citizen are close to each living in a single country, and the population number is not even real, Hibiki tryiing to Gain Makoto to her side, if not please tell the real number.
We could just replace Japan (a country ) with another continent like Africa, Asia, Europe and that won't be a problem, so 6-A at best .

We can stretch the demon territory way beyond even the human maps given that Root's country sized crater would only cover the outskirts and half of the demon's capital city; and it takes several days to get to the capital from Kaleon, which isn't even on the maps.

Why?
also the attack was stopped before any actual damage to the country. (the demon capital city)

So, maybe 6-A that way lol. I'm ok with assuming earth's size given how little we know about stuff outside of the human realm, but yeah.

the map give you the whole world, 6-A for Makoto and the gods without any feat except Makoto creating Asura.

 

[YungManzi]

a statement made by nobrain character who just met Makoto for the first time and know nothing about him. Waterfall is so stupid he didn't expect Makoto the most naive guy who trust stranger to let his servants check his memory, and let's check his power scaling reliability when he was suprise that he is stronger than Tomoe and got stomp with no dif. So no it's just a hyperbole with no proof (statment).

Waterfall is not a no-brain character. Literally a dragon who's been alive since ancient times and retained her memory from before her revival. You're saying that just because she didn't expect him to let Tomoe read his memories!? C'mon now, that's just completely uncharitable.

That's like saying Cell is a dumbass just because he didn't know Goku could use Instant Transmission. It's a ridiculous argument.

I could probably agree with this (need more proof) except with don't see any Tier 6-B+ destruction, and even if it was it's just Mio absorbing some of the buckshots that can make a crater and not the whole attack . So not really

Except it wasn't just some of the buckshots, it was literally all of them, and that's what would have made the crater.

Not just the benefit of doubt but absolute unreliability for not having any feat and being just a statement, sine when defeating an army count as Tier 6?

I don't think I've ever seen a calc on what defeating an army in one shot would yield tbh. Statements are reliable as it's a novel kek.

No, She survived a Nuke without giving any crater size, so just a Nuke+, but I could agree with giving Tomoki's Nuke not him Tier 6-C, She covered herself in a barrier and tanked the attack at least give her barrier Tier 6-C.

She didn't cover herself in barrier, you're assuming that, it's never shown or stated. It's actually said she tried to block it with her sword. And of course Tomoki doesn't scale to his nuke.

Like what ?

the problem is there isn't much info about them.

There's some assumptions and guesswork that can be made based on the info we have. Which is better than nothing.

And before you mention it, assumptions are made when doing calcs literally all the time, when pixel scaling isn't possible.

No, destroying that is not something that can be done physically by any character for now, and that statment by Waterfall could be refering to eligion or just straight up lying .
That's not how it work , unlike Japan Limia's citizen are close to each living in a single country, and the population number is not even real, Hibiki tryiing to Gain Makoto to her side, if not please tell the real number.

So the other is just having character's lie about what the population is and what other characters can do?

If you believe that, we literally cannot have pages for novel version of the verse, because every feat could be a lie.

Why?
also the attack was stopped before any actual damage to the country. (the demon capital city)

It's what Root stated, unless you think Root was lying too.

the map give you the whole world, 6-A for Makoto and the gods without any feat except Makoto creating Asura.

The map is explicitly not the whole world. Which is why not all landmarks and cities are on it, and you see clouds at the bottom and top.

It's a human world map.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Waterfall is not a no-brain character. Literally a dragon who's been alive since ancient times and retained her memory from before her revival. You're saying that just because she didn't expect him to let Tomoe read his memories!? C'mon now, that's just completely uncharitable.

That's like saying Cell is a dumbass just because he didn't know Goku could use Instant Transmission. It's a ridiculous argument.

He/She is, Makoto is the kind of guy who trust strangers and he didn't expect him to trust Tomoe (his servant) enough with his memory, that just stupid.

yeah Cell and most DB characters are just muscle brain idiots, "hey I'm gonna destroy this planet but even though I know nothing about what you can do I'll give you time to train"
the difference Cell didn't know, while Waterfall know but didn't think hewill do it.

Except it wasn't just some of the buckshots, it was literally all of them, and that's what would have made the crater.

yeah then she handle the buckshots of the attack while Root was charging and not the actual attack, also you can get the range from it right?

I don't think I've ever seen a calc on what defeating an army in one shot would yield tbh. Statements are reliable as it's a novel kek.

Baki characters do more than just a statement and still they don't get any tiering for it. tell me what attack exactly the character will use to do it.

She didn't cover herself in barrier, you're assuming that, it's never shown or stated. It's actually said she tried to block it with her sword. And of course Tomoki doesn't scale to his nuke.

check the scan
either she cover herself with a barrier or she cover herself with her sword which we know is not an average sword and she was surprise when Makoto destroyed her first one in their fight.
either barrier or sword durability.

There's some assumptions and guesswork that can be made based on the info we have. Which is better than nothing.

And before you mention it, assumptions are made when doing calcs literally all the time, when pixel scaling isn't possible.

what info?
we literally got nothing.

So the other is just having character's lie about what the population is and what other characters can do?

If you believe that, we literally cannot have pages for novel version of the verse, because every feat could be a lie.

check the scan.
Hibiki want Makoto to join her and will do anything to get him to her side (lie, trick, use) ,and she herself doesn't know the number.

It's what Root stated, unless you think Root was lying too.

that why? was for you "stretching"

The map is explicitly not the whole world. Which is why not all landmarks and cities are on it, and you see clouds at the bottom and top.

It's a human world map.

It is the whole world and it's flat, I think it's a pocket dimension created by someone (we know creation gods can do it) and the cloud are circulating that world the same way mist surround Asura from the inside defining it's boundary.

unless you have something to prove it's a planet.

 

[YungManzi]

He/She is, Makoto is the kind of guy who trust strangers and he didn't expect him to trust Tomoe (his servant) enough with his memory, that just stupid.

yeah Cell and most DB characters are just muscle brain idiots, "hey I'm gonna destroy this planet but even though I know nothing about what you can do I'll give you time to train"
the difference Cell didn't know, while Waterfall know but didn't think hewill do it.

Yes, because who in their right mind wants someone looking at their memories?

yeah then she handle the buckshots of the attack while Root was charging and not the actual attack, also you can get the range from it right?

The buckshots are what would form into the attack. So handling all of them is comparable to handling the attack.

Baki characters do more than just a statement and still they don't get any tiering for it. tell me what attack exactly the character will use to do it.

Baki isn't a novel with mostly POV chapters.

check the scan
either she cover herself with a barrier or she cover herself with her sword which we know is not an average sword and she was surprise when Makoto destroyed her first one in their fight.
either barrier or sword durability.

Her sword still would shield her from the full force of the attack which she was in the epicenter of.

what info?
we literally got nothing.

I'll tell you later. There's context clues.

check the scan.
Hibiki want Makoto to join her and will do anything to get him to her side (lie, trick, use) ,and she herself doesn't know the number.

There's nothing saying she lied about that tho

that why? was for you "stretching"

It is the whole world and it's flat, I think it's a pocket dimension created by someone (we know creation gods can do it) and the cloud are circulating that world the same way mist surround Asura from the inside defining it's boundary.

unless you have something to prove it's a planet.

Where's the scan saying it's flat because tbh I still haven't seen it.

Like, who said that that's so reliable?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yes, because who in their right mind wants someone looking at their memories?

IDK, maybe someone is a simp, stupid, naive and gullible like Makoto.

The buckshots are what would form into the attack. So handling all of them is comparable to handling the attack.

No, handling a sparks is not the same as tanking the attack that made them.

Baki isn't a novel with mostly POV chapters.

exactly, none of the statement are made by the author which would have been helpful.

Her sword still would shield her from the full force of the attack which she was in the epicenter of.

yeah but the sword get's the durability and not her, there is other character whose sword is undamaged by Tier 5 character and it doesn't affect his tier and he still get Tier 6 .

There's nothing saying she lied about that tho

Can you give the full scan ? (just to make sure)
except she will and she got reason for it, what make you think she didn't lie? from where she got their number ?

Where's the scan saying it's flat because tbh I still haven't seen it.

Like, who said that that's so reliable?

because "world" is vague especially when it's compared to Japan, Do you have any proof that is a planet?
(like the gods traversing interstellar distance to reach it or is it just a pocket dimension)

 

[YungManzi]

No, handling a sparks is not the same as tanking the attack that made them.

My claim has nothing to do with her tanking the attack or even scaling to its full yield.


Before we even continue this conversation, do you agree with the concept of backscaling?
Backscaling = Despite being weaker than the full yield of something, in order to reasonably affect it, you'd have to be relative to it.

yeah but the sword get's the durability and not her, there is other character whose sword is undamaged by Tier 5 character and it doesn't affect his tier and he still get Tier 6 .+

You can't block the epicenter of a nuclear blast with a sword...

Can you give the full scan ? (just to make sure)

I can later

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Before we even continue this conversation, do you agree with the concept of backscaling?
Backscaling = Despite being weaker than the full yield of something, in order to reasonably affect it, you'd have to be relative to it.

a little bit neutral on this one.
"affect it" doesn't mean tanking it with an object, what did she affect exactly?

You can't block the epicenter of a nuclear blast with a sword...

except she doesn't use a Katana, she has a big sword and let's not forget the barrier, she could use the sword as the center of the barrier. (this is fiction, skeleton speak and dragons turn into women)
actually, this can be used for something didn't Her first sword broke when she hit Makoto's Sakai, so anyone who could destroy his barrier scale to this only if the first sword is equal to the second in strength.(don't forget the barrier)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I'm gonna be honest, haven't read most of the stuff in the fight above as it's a bother, but just from the part in the first comments I want to point out that while I certainly disagree against the 5-B rating with the current reasoning and the whole flat world part, I'm actually fine with something like 6-A or High 6-A as we know the planet consist of a continent and an ocean, using the smallest continent gives High 6-B+ and the vaporization of all the oceans of earth is High 6-A so by using instead the smalled ocean as low-ball it would give something between said range (too lazy to do the actual math to see if it would be 6-A or High 6-A the ocean part).

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I agree with 6-A only for Makoto and the gods

 

[CodeCCLL]

Tensura (Light Novel) Characters Vs Alte - Battle For The Third Strongest High 6B Non-Smurf

Shion (Light Novel) (Oni) / Yuuki Kagurazaka (Light Novel) (Human) / Diablo (Light Novel) (Arch Demon) Vs Alte Barrette (Fully Equipped) SBA Speed Equalized Note: Only Tensura (Light Novel) characters who can defeat Alte in one-on-one combat can replace Alte. Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurf List

vsbattles.com

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Tensura (Light Novel) Characters Vs Alte - Battle For The Third Strongest High 6B Non-Smurf

Shion (Light Novel) (Oni) / Yuuki Kagurazaka (Light Novel) (Human) / Diablo (Light Novel) (Arch Demon) Vs Alte Barrette (Fully Equipped) SBA Speed Equalized Note: Only Tensura (Light Novel) characters who can defeat Alte in one-on-one combat can replace Alte. Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurf List

vsbattles.com

the profiles are outdated.

 

[YungManzi]

EL…

Back to the 6-B+ scaling. You really think it’s plausible narratively for Root to have an attack which one-shots pretty much everyone who isn’t a god; when Mio was able to hold it back?

You say the feat is for the beam and not the scatter, but there’s literally nothing in the text that says that. He just says that the attack would do it
Hell, the beam was literally supposed to be scatter shot from the beginning and Mio could halt every shot.

But FP Haruka would get one-shot by it? Makes no sense, even narratively and especially scaling wise.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

EL…

Back to the 6-B+ scaling. You really think it’s plausible narratively for Root to have an attack which one-shots pretty much everyone who isn’t a god; when Mio was able to hold it back?

You say the feat is for the beam and not the scatter, but there’s literally nothing in the text that says that. He just says that the attack would do it
Hell, the beam was literally supposed to be scatter shot from the beginning and Mio could halt every shot.

But FP Haruka would get one-shot by it? Makes no sense, even narratively and especially scaling wise.

OK, it's been a while.
could you post the scan (within context)

 

[YungManzi]

OK, it's been a while.
could you post the scan (within context)

Ok give me like an hour

 

[YungManzi]

Or half an hour lol

Chapter 192

“?!!”

From Root’s mouth, a laser-like blaze like that of Crimson Red was spit out.

It flashily tears through the sky and pierces through the rainbow colored ball that was slightly up.

It’s been awhile since I have seen the blue sky.

And then, from the pierced ball, it really rained down like a firework. Buckshots, buckshots, buckshots everywhere…

This is…there’s a lot more than I thought and the range is bigger as well!

The thick web was steadily being destroyed, and from the sky, a rainbow colored self-styled blaze was raining down to the earth.

Instead of calling it a blaze, this is more like a volcano eruption!!

“As expected, what you do is impressive-desu wa ne, pervert! Even so, learn that it is impossible to steal the march on me today!” (Mio)

Mio matches the scope of the raining buckshot and instantly expands the web that she set up in the sky.

I can tell that my magic power is flowing to Mio.

The amount is not that much so I don’t mind, but by using that, the black thread web expanded and received the buckshots.

The ones that fell in the spaces at the middle of the web were also stopped by a mysterious light pattern, and not a single one fell to the ground.

“Ah!!”

The scatter shot is what would have caused the destruction, and Mio could momentarily stop all of them.

Right after, she does let one slip, but there are hundreds of shots that she catches so she would still backscale from the full yield.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Or half an hour lol

Chapter 192


The scatter shot is what would have caused the destruction, and Mio could momentarily stop all of them.

Right after, she does let one slip, but there are hundreds of shots that she catches so she would still backscale from the full yield.

I thought it was a single attack.

this will count as AOE and danmaku not a single attack, we saw that all those buckshot do is a crater, her spider web were being destroyed, she was just matching their quantity by creating more spider web.

wait doesn't her web have magic absorption propperty?
her magic absorption help and she wouldn't be able to do it without Makoto, further proving Mio and Root don't scale to 6-B.


I would prefer if you give them two tiers, one for the physical tier and one for magic or a special ability like the nuke.

 

[YungManzi]

I thought it was a single attack.

this will count as AOE and danmaku not a single attack, we saw that all those buckshot do is a crater

It was still one attack (A ball was hit by a beam, resulting in the buckshot)

Root wasn't spamming a bunch of shots over and over.

, her spider web were being destroyed, she was just matching their quantity by creating more spider web.

Yes, she could only momentarily stop it. Which means she backscales.

her magic absorption help and she wouldn't be able to do it without Makoto, further proving Mio and Root don't scale to 6-B.

Yeah, this is for their keys when enhanced by Makoto. Base scaling can be done after we finish discussing everything else.

I would prefer if you give them two tiers, one for the physical tier and one for magic or a special ability like the nuke.

Hmm...

I think they scale fully, but I can see why you'd say that.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It was still one attack (A ball was hit by a beam, resulting in the buckshot)

Root wasn't spamming a bunch of shots over and over.

what Root did is gather an attack then split it as AOE danmaku
6-B the original attack maybe but the buckshots no.
Root replaced quality with quantity.

ex: if someone create a planet destruction energy ball and split it into multiple building level blast, doesn't matter how many of them you tank those blast will make you building level.

also if that is Root's attack then it's not 6-B, it's just a bunch of buckshot that create a small crater, considering those crater are not as impressive or noticeable as Makoto's lake (6-C), then Root and Mio(enhanced) will be lower in tier 7, unless you prove those craters are anywhere close to Makoto's lake.

Yes, she could only momentarily stop it. Which means she backscales.

It literally says she only did it by continuously producing more web, but I could agree.

Yeah, this is for their keys when enhanced by Makoto. Base scaling can be done after we finish discussing everything else.

I meant she can't tank those attack physically.

Hmm...

I think they scale fully, but I can see why you'd say that.

most characters physical stats(strength, durability, speed) don't scale to their AP(with hax or magic), Makoto got physically hurt multiple times by characters weaker than him.


Doesn't make sense for Root to replace his attack with multiple weaker version unless that's how he cover a bigger range.
Expectro2000xxx what do you think?

 

[YungManzi]

what Root did is gather an attack then split it as AOE danmaku
6-B the original attack maybe but the buckshots no.
Root replaced quality with quantity.

ex: if someone create a planet destruction energy ball and split it into multiple building level blast, doesn't matter how many of them you tank those blast will make you building level.

This is true for the individual blasts, but not for handling them all at once.

More stuff

(Waka-sama, I will be dropping them. While I was blocking them, I ate around ten of them- I mean, I erased them, but it will be difficult to do more than that. I have decided to depend on your words.) (Mio)

She only absorbed 10 of them.

Not only that, but Mio could direct all of them at once

(Mio, please have all of the attack face me and have it pass.) (Makoto)

(Is your body…no, I understand.) (Mio)

also if that is Root's attack then it's not 6-B, it's just a bunch of buckshot that create a small crater, considering those crater are not as impressive or noticeable as Makoto's lake (6-C), then Root and Mio(enhanced) will be lower in tier 7, unless you prove those craters are anywhere close to Makoto's lake.

The larger crater literally never happened because Makoto, Shiki, and Mio were there.

There's nothing to prove. It's just a statement from Root.

Now before we go on further, I want to be clear on the scaling implications of the kind of scale you're proposing...

Makoto's 6-C feat is the cap for everyone who isn't a god and for Root's one attack. (That's what you're suggesting)

1) If that's true, and we agree Tomoki's nuke is comparable, that would mean that his nuke would one-shot Tomoe, Mio, and Shiki; but base Sofia could block it with her sword.

And going even further, your logic includes enhanced versions of them.


2) With that scaling logic, you'd literally have chapter 200 Tomoki capable of one-shotting Haruka, Alte, all the demons, the apple group, all of asora, and everyone who isn't Makoto or the Goddess. THE SAME ATTACK THAT COULDN'T KILL BASE SOFIA.

3) Not to mention; Root could also one-shot the same person who said he wouldn't at all be an opponent fit for her, as well as someone stated to be stronger than her.

I say all that to say... Scaling everyone far below Makoto and Root's feats doesn't make narrative sense.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

This is true for the individual blasts, but not for handling them all at once.

More stuff

like I said million or billion doesn't matter how many buckshots she would scale to them individualy and not the big sphere that Root created.

this is just logic, handling drops of rain is not the same as taking a tsunami, a wall that could handle multiple missiles won't be able to handle nuke, doesn't matter how many Tier 10 you gather who ever defeat all them will scale to them.

She only absorbed 10 of them.

Not only that, but Mio could direct all of them at once

she has an absorption limit.
still scale to them individually

just to note: those buckshots were never focused on a single place but spread as AOE.

The larger crater literally never happened because Makoto, Shiki, and Mio were there.

There's nothing to prove. It's just a statement from Root.

can you check, I'm pretty sure some buckshots were droping when Root was charging his attack, and that a single buckshot could create a crater.

another statement, the author is not helping at all.

Makoto's 6-C feat is the cap for everyone who isn't a god and for Root's one attack. (That's what you're suggesting)

only thing that scale to that: gods, Tomoki's nuke, Root single attack, the durability of Sofia's sword and barrier.
the rest are tier 7, considering that none have an attack equal that could destroy a town, and Mio needed help just to tank multiple buckshots that are not even equal to a nuke, I 'll say between 8-B and high7-C.

8-B: City Block level​

Characters or objects that can destroy urban city blocks or equivalent areas of space.

8-A: Multi-City Block level​

Characters or objects that can destroy multiple urban city blocks or equivalent areas of space.

Tier 7: Nuclear​

Low 7-C: Small Town level​

Characters or objects that can destroy a small town or settlement, or those who can easily harm characters with small town level durability.

7-C: Town level​

Characters or objects that can destroy a town, or those who can easily harm characters with town level durability.

High 7-C: Large Town level​

Characters or objects that can destroy a large town, or those who can easily harm characters with large town level durability.

there is no feat of destruction that reach this tier or higher than this done by someone else.

1) If that's true, and we agree Tomoki's nuke is comparable, that would mean that his nuke would one-shot Tomoe, Mio, and Shiki; but base Sofia could block it with her sword.

And going even further, your logic includes enhanced versions of them.

through out the serie Sofia gave Makoto the hardest fight and pushed him to the limit, just think about it, the arrow that destroyed a mountain completly destroyed Mio and Sofia was able to hardly survived the attack that created the lake.(she definitely used something)
Sofia is stronger but she got less magic power than them.

about enhanced version we know that Mio's level is higher than Tomoe, and she needed to be enhanced to deal with those buckshots.
whatever those buckshots scale to individually, it will be enhanced Tomoe and Mio tier.

2) With that scaling logic, you'd literally have chapter 200 Tomoki capable of one-shotting Haruka, Alte, all the demons, the apple group, all of asora, and everyone who isn't Makoto or the Goddess. THE SAME ATTACK THAT COULDN'T KILL BASE SOFIA.

yes, with the nuke.
Makoto was dealing with them without using any impressive AP feats, Haruka died multiple times from a needle attack.
Alte was getting stomped by arrows and she got nothing but lightning that ignore magic (hax) and she would have died earlier if she didn't put her soul in the scythe.
apple group couldn't even be a threat to Tomoe and Mio and Makoto took care of their leader with archery skill not AP magic, he lost because he didn't expect him to heal.
what does Asura resident even have? except the vague volcano feat they are better than adventures and that's it, probably in term of knowledge and skill.

3) Not to mention; Root could also one-shot the same person who said he wouldn't at all be an opponent fit for her, as well as someone stated to be stronger than her.

the problem Root didn't know about the NUKE, or even what a nuke is.
and yes he can one shot Tomoki. Tomoki get this tier for the NUKE and not his base or durability.(remember the attack doesn't affect him)

I say all that to say... Scaling everyone far below Makoto and Root's feats doesn't make narrative sense.

Why?
it make sense unless you have some feats.

does it make sense that the goddess will let character who can destroy country run around her world, there is even an agreement between her and Root, that why Root destroy the golden highway to blame the apostle and give himself a excuse to join the war (adveture guild).


I'm not antagonizing, the author doesn't make it easy, just give them their actual tier so we can use them in matches.

 

[YungManzi]

yes, with the nuke.
Makoto was dealing with them without using any impressive AP feats, Haruka died multiple times from a needle attack.
Alte was getting stomped by arrows and she got nothing but lightning that ignore magic (hax) and she would have died earlier if she didn't put her soul in the scythe.
apple group couldn't even be a threat to Tomoe and Mio and Makoto took care of their leader with archery skill not AP magic, he lost because he didn't expect him to heal.
what does Asura resident even have? except the vague volcano feat they are better than adventures and that's it, probably in term of knowledge and skill.

You're saying because they were easily defeated by Makoto they're weak???

Powered up Sofia was defeated by a far inferior Makoto much more casually than Haruka or Alte. And you're scaling base Sofia above them.

the problem Root didn't know about the NUKE, or even what a nuke is.
and yes he can one shot Tomoki. Tomoki get this tier for the NUKE and not his base or durability.(remember the attack doesn't affect him)

Why?
it make sense unless you have some feats.

It feels like we didn't even read the same novel.


1) Sofia (Especially in base), is nowhere near comparable to Root; who's nowhere near comparable to Alte; who is below Haruka. You yourself argued this some pages ago.

But now you're arguing that base Sofia could block an attack people leagues above her would crumble to. That's how it doesn't make sense.

 

[YungManzi]

Btw, to comment on something you said before abut Asora residents just being above adventurers; Asora residents, like Ema, are literally some of the strongest people in the world of Tsukimichi (She could spar against Makoto's students 1v4, and this is post-their fight with Haruka)

And it makes sense narratively, because they are constantly training and fighting against each other and alongside Mio and Tomoe along with their minions. Also, normal wild animals in Asora need to be taken down by like the strongest adventurers in the world lol.

Edit: I honestly don't think any of the heavy hitters in Asora would lose to someone like Sofia (Powered up); Including Hatsuharu, Komoe, the sea creatures ect.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You're saying because they were easily defeated by Makoto they're weak???

Powered up Sofia was defeated by a far inferior Makoto much more casually than Haruka or Alte. And you're scaling base Sofia above them.

dude/dudette
Makoto was stomping Alte with arrows that easily pierced her and she wouldn't survive if it wasn't for her lightning, and Haruka literally died multiple time from a needle.
even Base Sofia took the arrow attack that created the lake and survived.

1) Sofia (Especially in base), is nowhere near comparable to Root; who's nowhere near comparable to Alte; who is below Haruka. You yourself argued this some pages ago.

But now you're arguing that base Sofia could block an attack people leagues above her would crumble to. That's how it doesn't make sense.

in term of hax or speed and not actual AP and durability.
Root met a weakened Sofia and all he did is use some kind of hax to remove the power she absorbed, in term of magic power she has less than him.
Alte have nothing but her lightning that couldn't even kill Ema.
Haruka got sighting skill and a skill that heal her otherwise she would have died easily multiple times from a needle, let's not forget that Makoto wasn't even trying to kill her for her daughter.

Btw, to comment on something you said before abut Asora residents just being above adventurers; Asora residents, like Ema, are literally some of the strongest people in the world of Tsukimichi (She could spar against Makoto's students 1v4, and this is post-their fight with Haruka)

And it makes sense narratively, because they are constantly training and fighting against each other and alongside Mio and Tomoe along with their minions. Also, normal wild animals in Asora need to be taken down by like the strongest adventurers in the world lol.

really, that's it?
training with someone doesn't make them close to that person, especially if it was just a training and they couldn't defeat that person.
As far as we know they are higher than adventurers and that's it.

Edit: I honestly don't think any of the heavy hitters in Asora would lose to someone like Sofia (Powered up); Including Hatsuharu, Komoe, the sea creatures ect.

even Tomoe and Mio would lose if it wasn't for their illusion and regeneration.

It feels like we didn't even read the same novel.

all you need is to prove it.

 

[YungManzi]

even Tomoe and Mio would lose if it wasn't for their illusion and regeneration.

all you need is to prove it.

You want me prove that the people stated to be stronger than Sofia are stronger?

Do you want the statements?

What are you asking me to prove?

 

[YungManzi]

Sofia’s whole narrative goal was to get strong enough to take on Root and Alte stated Root is nothing to her.

And Alte<Haruka.

You can only even make the argument that base Sofia is even comparable in bad faith.

I’mma wait on Expec to give his opinion before I say anything about it again, because you’re starting to make me mad.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

You want me prove that the people stated to be stronger than Sofia are stronger?

yes please

Do you want the statements?

really reliable and accurate statements that says their stronger physically than Sofia.

What are you asking me to prove?

everything if you could.

Sofia’s whole narrative goal was to get strong enough to take on Root and Alte stated Root is nothing to her.

in terms of what? (magic or physical prowess)
we know that Root unlike Sofia rely on magic and hax instead of CQC.

And Alte<Haruka.

then Ema>Haruka
C'mone Alte is only dangerous for her hax and not Ap or durability, her lightning couldn't kill Ema.
while Haruka is skilled in CQC and has WOS and that's it.

have you even read what is above?

I’mma wait on Expec to give his opinion before I say anything about it again, because you’re starting to make me mad.

Ok.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

This days I got college work to do so I will not have really free time for the wiki until after next week, I only briefly visited the wiki and saw this due to be in a hours long ass line without anything else to do, so don't expect me to engage in a long discussion (is possible that at some point I even stop answering and suddenly reply days later), having that in mind, here is my input.

First of all, despite the fact that Root attacks were several buckshots, they all came from the same initial attack, so Root had to necessarily generate all of that energy in one go, so they scale to the full value. Mio amped with Makoto energy should similarly scale due to create a defense/thread able to handle all that energy.

Now though, I would like that you, @YungManzi, could please explain to me again the original reason of the 6-B rating. I remember some statements about country destruction, but due to the nature of Root attack in this case (a large aoe meteor shower basically) is hard to actually quantify the feat as the destruction isn't like explosions or the typical energy beam were all the volume inside the area of the attack is affected, so it makes a destruction statement in this case difficult to rate as 6-B, not sure if I explained myself well in this part (basically, think of it like an energy comparison between an nuke that destroy a city and an airplane that drop bombs until a city is destroyed, both things destroyed an city but the way they did it and the energy involved was quite different). I also sort of remember an calc about it but dunno if is currently used, if it is and is valid then forget the previous text as they would scale to 6-B without problem.

Another thing I saw mentioned was that they should get separate ratings for their physicals and magic, but from memory pretty much all the top tiers can buff a lot their physicals with their magic so I don't think is really necessary that distinction, though this can be more debated as it's a a fair argument to explore.

And the last thing I saw mentioned was Tomoki nuke being equal to Makoto lake feat, but iirc at the last debate we didn't really agreed with that, at least I think I still stood with my initial stance about the statement comparing both being in reference of the lasting effect (a big lake where things can live vs an area completely inhabitable due to radiation effects), I think I even did an simple math to support my point that even assuming the nuke had the same massive area as the lake (which is already a really generous and big assumption) it would give lowers results with the explosion formula (using the vap destruction value though it gets higher but there is no particular reason to use it above the explosion formula considering the already favorable assumption of the area). So I'm not in support of those two things getting tiered equally.

 

[YungManzi]

First of all, despite the fact that Root attacks were several buckshots, they all came from the same initial attack, so Root had to necessarily generate all of that energy in one go, so they scale to the full value. Mio amped with Makoto energy should similarly scale due to create a defense/thread able to handle all that energy.

Now though, I would like that you, @YungManzi, could please explain to me again the original reason of the 6-B rating. I remember some statements about country destruction, but due to the nature of Root attack in this case (a large aoe meteor shower basically) is hard to actually quantify the feat as the destruction isn't like explosions or the typical energy beam were all the volume inside the area of the attack is affected, so it makes a destruction statement in this case difficult to rate as 6-B, not sure if I explained myself well in this part (basically, think of it like an energy comparison between an nuke that destroy a city and an airplane that drop bombs until a city is destroyed, both things destroyed an city but the way they did it and the energy involved was quite different). I also sort of remember an calc about it but dunno if is currently used, if it is and is valid then forget the previous text as they would scale to 6-B without problem.

I concede on the 6-B statements not being enough for a 6-B rating. Base 6-B not 6-B+ kek

So that tier is changing, for sure.

 

[YungManzi]

I think I even did an simple math to support my point that even assuming the nuke had the same massive area as the lake (which is already a really generous and big assumption) it would give lowers results with the explosion formula (using the vap destruction value though it gets higher but there is no particular reason to use it above the explosion formula considering the already favorable assumption of the area)

Interesting. I think the narrative overall implies the nuke is stronger, but I'm willing to compromise on something like that, Idc about Tomoki's nuke that much.. except as it relates to scaling everyone else.


Btw @Expectro2000xxx @EL_xWatcher1234x

The expression of Sofia dyes in joy.

Because she is sure she would be able to endure ‘that attack’ that was almost able to kill her in the past.

Narration says Sofia thinks she can tank Makoto's 6-C attack at this point. Which somehow I missed, which means the Tomoki nuke thing is kind of irrelevant scaling-wise except for just scaling the nuke lol.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Mio amped with Makoto energy should similarly scale due to create a defense/thread able to handle all that energy.

even if that energy was spread and wasn't focused on a single point?(does it affect Kaori tanking the apostles?)

Root attack in this case (a large aoe meteor shower basically) is hard to actually quantify the feat as the destruction isn't like explosions or the typical energy beam were all the volume inside the area of the attack is affected

I think he called it country level because of range, he split his attack into buckshots to cover a bigger area of effect.

Another thing I saw mentioned was that they should get separate ratings for their physicals and magic, but from memory pretty much all the top tiers can buff a lot their physicals with their magic so I don't think is really necessary that distinction, though this can be more debated as it's a a fair argument to explore.

only Makoto has shown using strengthening magic and still couldn't keep up Mio(spider) and Sofia or Hibik's speed.
Alte and Hibiki have speed amplification.

So I'm not in support of those two things getting tiered equally.

so Lake crater>Nuke?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Interesting. I think the narrative overall implies the nuke is stronger, but I'm willing to compromise on something like that, Idc about Tomoki's nuke that much.. except as it relates to scaling everyone else.

Now that I had time I searched the old post I was talking:

Also, assuming that trash nuke had the same size as the lake (which is already a big assumption) and doing some math with the explosion formula I get this:
W = R^3*((27136*P+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2
W = 2541,9169811320754716981132075472^3*((27136*1,37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2
W = 1319986.8433283026905024553721919 (1.31e+6) Tons of TNT or 1.31 Megatons (Low 7-B)
So it would be considerable less than Makoto lake (which would support my point that when they said it had a worse effect was due to the heat and radiation instead of the actual ap). For it to get above the lake it would be needed to assume the crater was exactly the same and use its mass multiplied for the vaporization value to get something around the 70 Gigatons (side note but the energy that Sofia would had taken would be less even in that case due to the distance and cross-section), problem with that method is that, besides the assumption that the crater had the same measurements (for it to have the same volume), I'm not actually sure if it would be allowed to go with the destruction values when the explosion formula exist specifically to address explosion feats.

So in short, trash nuke should continue to scale to the bombs of Japan.

And I still stand that the formula specifically for nuclear explosions should be used instead of the vaporization method in this case.

even if that energy was spread and wasn't focused on a single point?(does it affect Kaori tanking the apostles?)

The thread was made from her spreading her energy, receive and gather at one point the buckshots, so yeah it should scale. Also, don't bring Arifureta here, is an unreleated verse to the discussion (on top of the fact that I don't know what you even try to say with that).

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Season 2 is almost out.

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Season 2 is almost out.

thought ep 1 s2 was already out

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Has anyone read the LN? What is the difference?

 

[YungManzi]

Has anyone read the LN? What is the difference?

No. It's not translated to english. Unofficially or officially.

And it probably will never be translated.